[Resolved] Modifer:Set value no longer cancels an active timer...dang!

[AcidBath]

Recently noticed that my STE missions are no longer functioning properly.  Looks that my use of Modifier:Set value, where Data[0] = -1, Param Index = 0, that feeds an active timer is no longer cancelling that timer.  Seems that instead the affected timer is being restarted with its initial count value.  Seen it happen in all my missions that use this construct.  I have posted a formal issue with an example, just wondering if anyone else has noticed this problem.

 

Edit: Resolved 8/12/21, update 4.701

Edited December 10, 2021 by AcidBath

[LLv34_Temuri]

Might be related to an issue we're experiencing on our server. For some reason, changing the active planes list on an airfield no longer works using the Behavior MCU.

[JG4_Deciman]

Maybe this issue (or other issues - either selfmade or devmade) also kill my logic...

Investigating right now...

 

Deci

[AcidBath]

Alas, a fix for this functionality of Modifer:Set value did not make into the latest build ☹️

 

Sure hope that it will be fixed soon, it's such a nice of a feature to be so seemingly carelessly discarded.  BTW this feature was added across builds 3.008 and 3.009 in 2018.

Edited October 30, 2021 by AcidBath

[Cynic_Al]

I have just encountered this issue myself while trying to reinstate a server.  I have filed my own report,  stressing the damage it will be causing to existing maps relying on the functionality.  I suggested that if for some reason it can't be fixed, they could give us a dedicated MCU for aborting timers.

[AcidBath]

I've used a workaround, which is to stop/cancel/abort an active timer by using a Deactivate MCU.  To have it triggered again (though I coded this so it's done even the first time it's triggered), first feed it an Activate MCU then 20 ms later feed it the trigger signal.  This trigger signal will start the timer at its original programmed time, the delay is used to enforce that the Activate must occur first.  Not saying that this is perfect (though more can be done so it can be), but it gets the job done for now at least.  BTW, using a timer value less than 20 ms is effectively 0 ms, and all timers values are rounded down to the nearest multiple of 20 ms.

 

Of course, all this a big pain in the butt and completely unneeded if the Modify:Set value MCU gets fixed soon.  I am amazed that this defect hasn't caused more problems, or at least enough to get a base of users upset about it.

Edited November 6, 2021 by AcidBath

[IckyATLAS]

This is very worrying as in my campaign I use this feature for the service and maintenance areas. It was a tested and working feature so not reviewed again, and it just fell out of my sight. Now I need to check this and it may require to modify all the campaign missions for this feature. A very big pain in the ass indeed.

This is the dark side of the developer team. They may do uncommented and unreported modifications to the editor. This again shows that the editor is not a supported feature of this game and its usage is not really promoted. 

[IckyATLAS]

9 hours ago, AcidBath said:

I've used a workaround, which is to stop/cancel/abort an active timer by using a Deactivate MCU.  To have it triggered again (though I coded this so it's done even the first time it's triggered), first feed it an Activate MCU then 20 ms later feed it the trigger signal.  This trigger signal will start the timer at its original programmed time, the delay is used to enforce that the Activate must occur first.  Not saying that this is perfect (though more can be done so it can be), but it gets the job done for now at least.  BTW, using a timer value less than 20 ms is effectively 0 ms, and all timers values are rounded down to the nearest multiple of 20 ms.

 

Of course, all this a big pain in the butt and completely unneeded if the Modify:Set value MCU gets fixed soon.  I am amazed that this defect hasn't caused more problems, or at least enough to get a base of users upset about it.

Thanks AcidBath for your workaround. I tested the Set Value problem and I confirm they have screwed the function. Your workaround works perfectly well. To be tested in a very loaded processing environment. But if it works on your server missions then it should be fine also with my solo campaign missions.

We discovered Set Values features thanks to you and Sketch, and as things are I would not count at all on the developers to restore this function. They probably changed its behavior because they needed it for something else. Anyway it was never documented in the beginning and the whole editor itself was in fact never documented and without Jim's manual we would be in the blue or loose an incredible time to learn it.

 

We must not forget that the editor was given as is to us because we insisted a lot to have it. Jason was not willing to put it online. So he released it without any commitment whatsoever. This is why I have decided that after the release of the second part of my campaign Wall of Kuban, I will have finished my project, I will just continue supporting this campaign across updates, and improve it here ad there, but I will not start a new project with BoBp or BoN. One reason is also that BoK is the best released map up to now. If there is a real change in the attitude towards us as mission developers and the editor gets really supported then maybe I may continue starting a new project. The only other case for me to start a new campaign project in the actual conditions, would be BoP (Pacific theater of war). 

[JimTM]

9 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

...Anyway it was never documented in the beginning and the whole editor itself was in fact never documented and without Jim's manual we would be in the blue or loose an incredible time to learn it.

...

 

Just a couple of side notes:

• The earlier version of the editor, used in Rise of Flight, was documented and you can download that manual here.
• Besides my editor manual, see also Prangsters guide and other editor resources (including videos) under "Mission Editor and Multiplayer Server Guides" in the IL-2 Resources post.

Edited November 7, 2021 by JimTM

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I learned how to create missions primarily through Prangster Guide. It is very good. It is also over six years old.

 

Unfortunately, providing hardcopy  game documentation has never been a strong point of our developers. I fear they never will be. ☹️

[AcidBath]

12 hours ago, Thad said:

Unfortunately, providing hardcopy  game documentation has never been a strong point of our developers. I fear they never will be. ☹️

 

As a now retired software engineer, inadequate or out of date/inaccurate documentation (if it exists at all), which BTW seems to be prevalent across the entire profession, was my bane for decades.  My second bane is the fashion show aspect of software, as in "oh, no body cares about that fashion (i.e. software tool/api) any more, so it's been replaced by something (supposedly) better, and not only that, what once worked fine is no longer guaranteed to do so anymore.  I am so happy that all that crap is behind me now.

Edited November 8, 2021 by AcidBath

[Cynic_Al]

In the absence of documentation, I would imagine that any value set via the Set Value MCU should persist, which would be inconsistent with using an impossible timer value (-1) to abort a pending timer delay, as that value would persist thereby disabling the timer from being triggered subsequently. 

[AcidBath]

The following is from https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?do=findComment&comment=709965

and https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?do=findComment&comment=703542

 

Quote

34. Modifier object: it is now possible to assign negative values to a counter. Both the current value and trigger threshold can be set for a timer;
35. Timer: when a new trigger signal is received, the timer resets;
36. Modifier and timer: parameter index 0 now controls the current timer value while parameter index 1 controls the timer threshold;
37.  Modifier and timer: timer can be reset and stopped by parameter index 0 and value -1;

 

Quote

For mission designers we added a way to control Timer and Counter values dynamically. To do this, there are two new logical objects Modifier: Add Val and Modifier: Set Val. We plan to widely use them to alter various triggers in the future, but at the moment they can be used for:
- modifying a Timer trigger value. A modifier can set, add or substract the time value in a timer by using the 0 index of the controllable value and 1-st field of the value vector. When set to a negative value, the time counter is reset and the timer stops until the next input. For example, this can be used to reset and stop a timer in a mission, delaying some events tied to it.
- modifying a Counter trigger value and threshold (initiall set in a mission). To alter a Counter value, use the 0 index of the controllable value or alter Counter threshold using the 1-st index. For example, a certain mission event like a premature elimination of some targets can lower the threshold of a Counter to make sure the others are eliminated at the moment the player arrives to the waypoint.

 

This is the extent of the documentation written by the devs on the use of Modifier MCUs.  All I know about this stuff originated here, and I've used it all to excellent effect (until now, that is).

 

Dynamically setting/incrementing/decrementing counter MCU limits (i.e. thresholds) and values has blown wide open the use of counters in my missions; I consider this functionality for counters far more important than cancelling a timer, and I'm glad that at least that stuff wasn't broken.

Edited November 8, 2021 by AcidBath

[Cynic_Al]

6 minutes ago, AcidBath said:

The following is from https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/12826-game-updates/?do=findComment&comment=709965

 

 

This is the extent of the documentation written by the dev on the use of Modifier MCUs.  All I know about this stuff originated here, and I've used it all to excellent effect (until now, that is).

 

 

 

A forum post is not where I would reasonably expect to find documentation on any aspect of related software.

 

When they say 'trigger threshold' I presume they mean the random output probability.

 

"Timer: when a new trigger signal is received, the timer resets;"  I presume this means that subsequent triggering will use the default entered values.

 

Acknowledgement of a critical error this serious within the game itself, usually gives rise to a swift update.

[AcidBath]

18 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

A forum post is not where I would reasonably expect to find documentation on any aspect of related software.

 

Well it seems to me that you've something to learn here.  Also, I find it's best to figure stuff out by trying it and not second guessing, especially since there probably is language barrier here as well.

Edited November 9, 2021 by AcidBath

[Cynic_Al]

As of today's update, the functionality in question appears to have been unbroken.

[AcidBath]

Excellent, thanks for the heads up.  Confirmed it myself this afternoon.

 

Unfortunately Flying Circus's DH.4's AI still thinks its a Sopwith Camel (but given the choice I'll take the fixed MCU).

[IckyATLAS]

Excellent news. I had decided to keep the code as is even if I lost a function but not all of it. Good news then my code will run again properly.