Monetization needs to be restructured to entice more players

[Thorne]

I love this game, it's great--in fact it's the best VR combat experience on PC.

 

I've tried to get my friends into IL2 but they all run into the same barrier. In order to be assured that they can play on one of the few populated servers they have to invest a significant amount of money into at least a couple of modules; which in addition to being expensive, is confusing for newcomers. This barrier of entry is holding back IL2 growth wise in a pretty serious way--and I can attest that even people who are really excited about IL2 and motivated to play with their friends get weeded out by the cost of entry.

 

IL2 is uniquely positioned to fill the niche between Warthunder and DCS. I love the fact that I can hop in a high fidelity sim and fly a wide variety of airframes without spending 15 minutes remembering the HOTAS binds for each individual aircraft--in fact that's one of the reasons I mostly fly IL2 currently. With a more modern monetization scheme that removes barriers to entry I suspect that we could be over 1000 average players per day on the Steam charts in 12 months.

 

Here would be an example: consider making an intro module, priced around $45 that would allow access to a single 'meh' fighter from both sides on every server, a couple of aircraft and aircraft components you can work towards as experience based unlocks, and a single, stripped down offline instant action scenario for practice. This would guarantee new players are always able to get into one of the few active servers and give them something to work towards to keep them engaged. One would still be able to buy the DLCs as they currently exist, which would not only give you access to all of the aircraft but also to the single player content for that region including instant action, mission editor, campaigns and so forth. Additionally one could buy individual aircraft and tanks a la carte.

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thorne

[Denum]

They've often said they aren't interesting in cutting the modules up into individual purchases. 

On a sale you can buy everything for a little over 100 bucks aside from the newest modules, and the sales occur very often.   


Sims have a high entry cost, even more so if you're playing online. You don't NEED head tracking or a nice stick and pedals. But it makes a huge difference.  

For the majority of players, trying Battle of Stalingrad is going to enough to see if they like the genre or not. 

You could purchase that and two late war collector aircraft and be able to play on every server. 



 

[Thorne]

Thanks for replying Denum,

 

Many of us are old enough to remember when PC games came on multiple floppies in a box large enough to be at home in the breakfast cereal isle in a supermarket. A part of me still thinks that's reasonable, but despite my personal feelings about big boxes and multiple disks I have to admit that the world has moved on.

 

Waiting for a sale in order to add yourself to the warm bodies in cockpits that IL2 so desperately needs isn't good for us or for the many potential pilots that we're missing out on. Having to make a forum post to decode which DLC you'll need to have access to certain servers is obviously problematic.

 

I'm going to ask you a question, and I don't mean to be confrontational at all but rather to get an idea as to what your interaction is with prospective IL2 pilots; when did you last bring someone into the game? Do you remember some of the issues you encountered in doing so? I'm interested in the details if you'll share them.

[Jaws2002]

25 minutes ago, Thorne said:

couple of aircraft and aircraft components you can work towards as experience based unlocks,

 

Yeah, that will work great.... last time it was tried in il-2, it nearly killed the game. 

 The vast majority of players here hate unlocks. Most of us would rather pay up front and then play for fun, instead of turning it into a second job.

 This customer base was built over a long time and it's loyal.  While it is not as large as warthunder, I doubt the dev  want to risk losing their base for some potential extra small sales from someone on a two days drive-by.

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

5 minutes ago, Thorne said:

but despite my personal feelings about big boxes and multiple disks

 

I had to read that twice

[Thorne]

Jaws2002, thanks for your reply,

 

It would not change anything for current users. For those who prefer to continue buying the DLCs as normal you could do so. The unlocks would be for people who buy the intro package.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thorne

[BraveSirRobin]

The problem with selling individual aircraft is that the developer has determined that they need to group bombers, fighters, and maps in order for them to survive financially.  

[Thorne]

Thanks for replying SirRobin,

 

Perhaps the a la carte aircraft didn't work for 1C in the past. I don't believe they tried an intro pack that would let you play on all of the servers however. Either way, I think there is room for improvement as far as lowering barrier to entry are concerned; and that it would benefit both the community and 1C's growth immensely. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thorne

[BraveSirRobin]

Maybe they'll have a way to buy individual aircraft for older modules at some point, but for now they need all the money that they can get.  And I suspect that they have a better idea how to make that happen than any of us.

[Jaws2002]

Most servers are hosted by players. They make their own missions and use whatever aircraft they want. Nobody can tell a customer what planes he has to use in his missions. 

 How do you know that the servers that use the aircraft you want are going to be popular? You don't. 

 

 

[Thorne]

SirRobin, I give 1C a tremendous amount of credit for making a great sim, and being obviously passionate about aircraft and simulations in general.

 

That said, and perhaps you're already aware of this, small businesses are filled with employees who wear many hats. 1C obviously doesn't have dedicated monetization, finance, and marketing teams to maximize profit and grow the playerbase--and it shows.

 

As much as I hate the vampires who fulfill these specialty positions at publishers like Activision they are very good at what they do. The good news is that it doesn't have to be evil, a balance can be struck between growth and fidelity that doesn't change the current experience for people who like to buy $50 DLC while lowering the barriers to entry and swelling the playerbase in a way that makes everyone happy.

 

 

Thanks Jaws2002, I'm not sure whether you're pro-retooling monetization or anti-from your last reply but you elucidated a point I'm trying to make pretty well.

 

17 minutes ago, Jaws2002 said:

How do you know that the servers that use the aircraft you want are going to be popular? You don't. 

 

New pilots have no idea what planes they need to buy to get into which servers. Meaning the only reliable to be certain you'll get into the few servers that actually have people in them is to buy ALL of the DLC. That's over $200 most days; you have no idea how many people get to that point in their decision process and just walk. One shouldn't have to worry about that kind of expenditure and complexity when you're trying to get into IL2--it's insanely bad from an engagement perspective.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thorne

[Zinovy_Kolobanov]

From my opinion, the il2 community is very generous, and offers are the order of the day, 85% in most cases, as they well said, if you wait for the moment you can have +40 airplanes for 40e, in their standard versions , DLCs s 9euros .. I think it is a very good price to get started, and Collection planes at 3euros, remember that you can always surprise them by giving a module or DLC to a friend?‍❤️‍?. But there are simply options and economic ones, just wait for the moment, which is very frequent.

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Thorne said:

New pilots have no idea what planes they need to buy to get into which servers. Meaning the only reliable to be certain you'll get into the few servers that actually have people in them is to buy ALL of the DLC. That's over $200 most days; you have no idea how many people get to that point in their decision process and just walk. One shouldn't have to worry about that kind of expenditure and complexity when you're trying to get into IL2--it's insanely bad from an engagement perspective.

 

Or they could just ask here before buying any of the modules what planes are the most popular? People post topics like that all the time, and they have a reply in short order. That, and it costs nothing to create a forum account.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

2 hours ago, Thorne said:

when did you last bring someone into the game? Do you remember some of the issues you encountered in doing so? I'm interested in the details if you'll share them.

 

As already said, major problem is that missions are "timeframe" related.

So a basic plane (let's say 109F4) will be a big advantage in the early war scenario and useless in the late one.

Regarding your questions:

I started a couple of years ago, just because BoS was discounted (like 10€).

I tried and I liked, so I bought a 30€ joystick (not without wondering if I was throwing away my money).

Then I had the luck to meet the ITAF group, they teached me basically everything what I know about a plane and I enjoyed this experience so much that now I have all modules, a nice hotas, VR and we are working on organise a multiplayer campaign (huuuuuuge time investment).

At the same time I try to welcome new guys that want to join the group, usually we see 1 or 2 new faces per month but just a couple of them remain in the team per YEAR.

Not because we are bad guys, but because it's a difficult game.

You have to invest a lot of time and shallow a lot of frustration, especially for multiplayer. 

So, this is the biggest obstacle for new players and at the same time the reason why we like it so much.

I tried WT, left it after 2 hours, I tried DCS, beautiful but too less players per key binding.

 

Summarizing:

In my opinion, IL 2 doesn't need a lot of new players but people that want to invest their time to learn and understand how to virtual fly.

And they are rare.

[Luftschiff]

First of all, IL2 would definitely benefit from more players. More players mean more life to the hobby and more money to earn us all more of the things we want from the devs. No amount of elitism is going to change that. It's just plain good if we had more players. In this, Thorne is certainly right.

 

I think the point Jaws was trying to elucidate is that there is no way for the developers to create a pack with planes that "allow people to play on every server" because the planesets are controlled by individuals who host them. That intro pack would likely just add to the confusion for new players, and lessen the perceived value of other dlcs if there's any overlap at all.

 

However - Because of the above, I don't really see what this intro kit would provide that a mid-war pack like Battle of Stalingrad does not? 

The devs do a good job already of making sure each release contains a wide spectrum of 109's planes already and since few planes were truly phased out completely during the war - owning just stalingrad will ensure you can play and fly ~something~ on almost any server and mission. The Yak-1/PE-2 and BF109F4/G2 will get you into just about anything - and If a mission maker has made a particularly exclusive planeset, owning just one collector plane (per side) would usually rectify that. The G6 or A5 is playable on just about every single server I've ever encountered.

 

All the maps come for free and every module comes with single player missions, career, and all the other things you wanted from the intro pack.

I am sympathetic to your cause but I cannot really agree that the barrier of entry is as high as you imply. 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by Luftschiff

[cardboard_killer]

I remember buying my first expansion to the old AH boardgame Squad Leader. The original game I got as a present as it was a whopping $16, about the most expensive game AH produced (originally it was $12, but was so popular AH raised the price on the second printing). Anyway, the expansion, Cross of Iron, came out and I think it was $14. I searched around for odd jobs I could do to make enough money to buy it. I probably panhandled a bit, too. All for that slim box with a few hundred cardboard squares.

 

Somehow, I don't think a flight simulator is going to elicit the same kind of desire in the young, especially so far removed from the war.

[Talon_]

Just make BoS free and promote the hell out of it on Steam like that other simulator did.

[PaladinX]

Entry must be very easy and cheap - the interested people buy other modules then.

I agree, make BoS free, especially on Steam. # of players will explode first, then return to a more sustainable quantity of players (but higher than now).

[Missionbug]

Personally not a online player, however, I would not imagine any new player is going to go straight online no matter what your experience of other sim/games is, you would I think first need a module to practice offline and in the time it takes to become familiar with Great Battles and its community a sale will almost certainly appear to add additional content to your install before you are ready for Multiplayer, nothing needs to change.

 

None of the existing DLC are expensive, too cheap I think when compared to other things, you get a full package of aircraft, a map and the objects to replicate that particular conflict for much less than a single aircraft would cost elsewhere and sales pop up with unerring regularity, so much so that I wonder sometimes why I ever bother with the Pre-order of modules, patience is the key.  From what I see the online maps are regularly rotated to give all a chance to experience their particular favourite so buying any of the existing DLC in a sale will give all the chance to participate irrespective at some time, only a mater of waiting for a event to come around.

 

A starter module has been mentioned many times, I for one got R.O.F. that way, however, the business plan for that was different and they changed it for this iteration of IL_2 so I think it fair to say they like things the way they are, 1C/777 only know the cost benefits of any particular way they work and for them they have said on many occasions it works well enough for their needs, case of if it is not broke do not try to fix it.

 

I cannot imagine anyone actually jumps straight into flight simming/gaming on a momentary impulse, most will look at reviews of what is available and check the community in order to acquaint themselves with the best options, put their toe in the water so to speak before jumping in, folks are very cost conscious these days and there is ample information on the internet to allow them to judge the pros and cons of any purchase.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

[AEthelraedUnraed]

5 hours ago, Thorne said:

Here would be an example: consider making an intro module, priced around $45 that would allow access to a single 'meh' fighter from both sides on every server

You do know that most servers are privately run, right? There's no way 1CGS can make a module that'll run on all servers, because they don't own all servers and cannot control what aircraft are allowed there.

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

Just make BoS free and promote the hell out of it on Steam like that other simulator did.

85% of like it is on sales its like its free, i bet what they earn from that 15% they need to give up to steam ?

 

If new player is into MP, then all he need for 90% of missions online is Battle of Stalingrad standard and Battle of Bodenplatte standard, and thats around 15$ on sales that happend every month probably.

 

How i show game to ppl i play other games is i buy DLC on sale and give them for free, they mostly just play it in quick missions, MP is to hard or boring for them, i try few coops but they didnt like it, they dont come from aviation fan backgrounds.

 

I think the way they do it now with offten 85% sales is way to go.

[NoelGallagher]

no unlocks plz 

 

and it's pretty cheap when it's on sale relative to other sims with the regards of it's quality 

 

i wish they hire more workers and make the price higher than now

 

the current engine is too much outdated for the time 2021...

Edited October 5, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[Luftschiff]

I mean, I can see them giving away BoS for free as a way to drive player growth and that'd probably get a bunch of new people hooked. Rising Storm was dying until epic had a weekend giveaway and now all servers are full pretty much 24/7. I like that idea more than some new 'starter' kit at full price. Really not sure how feasible it is, and I'm sure Jason and the team have given the business model a LOT of thought over the years, considering they're operating a niche hobby that's barely surviving.

[BlitzPig_EL]

The biggest single reason that flight sims have small numbers of players compared to other types of games is that they are sims.  Flight sims, by their very nature are difficult, and have a high cost floor for even the most basic peripherals (stick/throttle/rudders/head tracking), not to mention the absolute need for a pretty strong PC to run it on.  Then add the fact that there is a substantial learning curve to virtual flight, before you even get to the shooting part.  Nope, it's unrealistic to expect that there is a bottomless well of players wanting to get into flight simulation.  We live in a time where the mantra preached since day one is "easy is better".

Where the gaming skill set for the vast majority of electronic gaming is the ability to twitch your controller faster than your opponent can, and you don't have to buy anything extra to play the game.

 

Like it or not, we are engaged in a niche endeavor, one that only a few will try, and even fewer will stick with.

 

It has ever been thus.

[Luftschiff]

That is true, but it also true that if more people can try it, more people will stick with it.

Unlike OP I do not expect thousands to flock to our little grognard banner of Focke-Bars and Fiddy-cals, but I certainly see it as a positive if thousands were able to TRY it before they discard the notion. Compared to most of you I'm a relative youth and I only got seriously into this hobby because of IL2:BoS - and that too owes a lot to (dare I say it) War thunder providing an extremely low barrier of entry for me to remember why I was so enamoured with flight. 

 

We can argue the numbers, and statistical likeliness, or the methods of bringing it about - absolutely!
...But I find it a hard sell to accept "Trying to bring new people in is bad and pointless" as a serious argument. 

 

It's definitely not bad to get more people to try.

 

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've often thought a starter kit with a unique aircraft might not be a bad idea as an entry point into the series that was free or extremely low cost. That said, it's really hard to compete with the frequently 85% off Battle of Stalingrad. I convinced a friend to buy it for $6.99 and he hasn't even played it yet

 

To the question around buying enough DLC to have fun online, I submit and I have recommended to a large number of players that you need just two to get started and have a good experience. First, Battle of Stalingrad is both incredibly cheap during a sale and also has a good planeset that servers like Finnish Virtual Plots cater to. Second, Battle of Bodenplatte essentially unlocks the rest of the experience. Moscow and Kuban fill things out in a fantastic way but you don't need them to have a fun time on most servers.

 

During a frequent sale, that makes the cost just $45 which when compared to the price of a joystick and gaming PC is a drop in the bucket. I don't think it's the barrier to entry. I think what is the barrier to entry is that flight simming is hard and requires a steep learning curve. Throw combat flight simming on top of it and its even steeper of a climb. Immensely enjoyable when you get there but a tough one to climb nonetheless. It will always be a bit of a niche.

[Thorne]

Morning gents,

 

It looks like a good mix of for/against posts have been created while I was asleep. 

 

2 hours ago, Luftschiff said:

That is true, but it also true that if more people can try it, more people will stick with it.

 

This really gets at the heart of the issue. I understand from first hand experience how hard it is to get people into the genre--and this is exactly why we need the lowest barriers to entry possible. Ultimately it's a numbers game; let's say flight sims only appeal to 2% of the gaming population. If you get 1000 people to play your game then you've recruited 20 new players. If you get 10,000 people you've got 200 new players.

 

I'd like you to sit and think about something for a second. How awesome would it be to hop on IL2 on a weekday evening, open up the server browser, and have more than one or two full servers to pick from. Imagine if that number was five on weekdays and 10 on weekends. I think that's possible.

 

2 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Flight sims, by their very nature are difficult, and have a high cost floor for even the most basic peripherals (stick/throttle/rudders/head tracking), not to mention the absolute need for a pretty strong PC to run it on

 

Thanks Blitz,

 

I was thinking about the barriers to entry last night and the hardware is actually not a big deal. I did most of my simming on a cheap Logitech stick that probably cost 40 bucks--which was perfectly competitive even it creaked when I gripped it too hard. Pair that with a Delanclip and you're if a good spot for just over $100. A new Scuf controller is around $150 and they're incredibly popular, for reference.

 

As far a difficulty goes, I think things are changing. In addition to flight sims I'll play Warzone with friends periodically, mostly as a social outlet. The competitiveness of the 'casual' shooter scene has absolutely skyrocketed--there is a whole industry of coaches and skill guides that are eagerly gobbled up by a generation of gamers who are used to suffering through obnoxiously difficult games with an unbelievably low chance of 'winning'. It's now a matter of letting them know they can also suffer in a P-40 and retaining whoever has some real interest.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Thorne

[Missionbug]

There is certainly nothing wrong in trying to interest new players to flight simming in general, not just Great Battles, however, it will always be a difficult genre to play for anyone.  not only is there more complexity than the usual console stuff if you want to go full real, there is also the equipment side of things, whatever way you look at it there will always be costs involved not only for the software but also the peripherals, the D.L.C itself I doubt will or should be any major kind of barrier to entry in its own right, not in this instance anyway due to the constant sales that we see almost monthly, or for whatever and whenever reason the team feels is worthy of a promotional few days, from major events to birthdays all seem to be sale worthy for the purpose of promoting the series and are so regular as to be almost permanent.

 

Many of us have I think grown old with IL_2 having started with Oleg's first version to the modern iteration we see today, it is not and never was a type of game you just jumped in on during Saturday night, most here are first and foremost aviation enthusiasts so this will always be a niche, this is kind of a lifetime hobby which includes models and airshows as well as the simulations, they are a kind of natural progression through your aviation interests in life, there are so many cheaper alternatives out there already including the still available IL_2 1946 to cut your teeth on that cost in itself cannot really be seen as something that stops people opting to try this particular series, the interest will I believe already be there and cost is of secondary consideration because the D.L.C. is a long term consideration meant to be built on in small steps and that is how most of us are here so it is hard to know just how you do entice the newcomer.

 

In my case I was already a flyer when the disc for R.O.F was released which is essentially what folks here are asking for as a kind of introduction to Great Battles, did it entice me in?  Difficult to decide whether or not it did, WWI was not my focal point, WWII was and is so R.O.F would not necessarily be my first choice for a simulator but as a aircraft enthusiast the disc did allow me to test my system before committing and to build as I went with each aircraft and weapon option available separately as finance allowed until I had the complete package, however, personally I like how this series is marketed and sold overall.

 

Would I have bought into R.O.F without the disc to try?  I think overall it looked so good that even though it was outside my main sphere of interest and I played it little it was worth every penny, so yes, even if sold as the Battles series is now I would have added it to my collection eventually anyway just because the aircraft were modeled as good as they were, cost was never the main concern, whether my then system could handle it was more important and that is the crux of this really, to try something out you normally have to purchase it first as it is never clear exactly how it will work on any system or even if you will actually like it anyway.

 

Take care and be safe.

 

Wishing you all the very best, Pete.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Missionbug

[Jade_Monkey]

I think it's actually a good proposal. A module that cuts across all existing releases with just one of the low tier planes for each side.

 

Included:

MP (including coop)

QMB for free maps (Latino, VL, etc.)

 

Not included:

- Career mode

- AQM

- Any Scripted campaign that needs the main maps.

 

The only catch is that servers are custom and they would have to make sure to include some planes in that new tier.

 

Also, not sure what the model would be to upgrade to a new full module. Do you get a discount bc you own a couple of planes already, or do you eat the cost and pay full price?

[BraveSirRobin]

10 hours ago, Thorne said:

 

That said, and perhaps you're already aware of this, small businesses are filled with employees who wear many hats. 1C obviously doesn't have dedicated monetization, finance, and marketing teams to maximize profit and grow the playerbase--and it shows.

 

Are you a monetization expert?

[40plus]

Price structure, sales, monetization of this product is 100% fine as it is, If not a bit too generous.

 

By far the most affordable sim of this caliber on the market.

[NoelGallagher]

BOS is offered as almost free when it's on sale(and that sale is on almost every month)

and whenever i recommned the tank crew to others

they wouldn't mind at all to buy the BOS as base game (of course when it's on sale)

so i'm very doubtful that making BOS free will attract any more player

instead making other branches like tank crew really helped 

such as myself

i bought BOS to play tank crew but ended up having BOK,BOBP,and a lot of collector planes

for the value per money 

BOS was better purchase thant tank crew lol

and i know there are quite a lot of tank players who only owns tank crew also planning to buy other aircraft based modules

so making TC2 with western front set up will attract more players than just making the BOS free

since ww2 is regarded as quite minor relative to modern combat (this applies to every combat based game)

and anyone who want to play lightly without paying money already have the game called warthunder

and that kind of system works well with war thunder becasue they designed the whole game from the beginning with the mind of selling forever DLC's

if you expect that system to work well in il-2 franchise you would re-design the entire game to fit that buisiness model

 

and as many others pointed out 

flight sim has high entry regardless of the coast of the base game

il-2 has the place for the people who cares about historical authenticity and also realism(physics ETC)

that's already very much limited 

not even that you need to buy other escential gears like tracking device and joystick

that limits the pops even more

 

i'd rather recommend for them to raise the price of existing aircombat modules and expand the team instaed and upgrade the engine if that is possible

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by NoelGallagher

[Mtnbiker1998]

I've introduced quite a few people to the game over the last couple years or so to play coop with my friends. Waiting for a sale to pickup base Stalingrad for 10 bucks, and then probably take advantage of that same sale to pickup whatever module they were interested (in my case thats usually bodenplatte, or flying circus, but whatever they fancy) for another 20. Thats deluxe edition prices and even that is not a very high cost of entry. Currently I'm running a 190 campaign with PWCG so all anyone needs to do to join is pickup BoS deluxe for $12 on sale.

 

most of my guys ended up buying a cheap entry level stick (or getting a hand-me-down from someone upgrading; my old stick and trackir have been passed down twice now, benefits of local gaming friends) but even then, if someone really wanted to they could fly with mouse control to see if they like it (I've tried it on days I don't feel like setting up the hotas, its obviously not great but its totally playable) no initial hardware investment is needed.

 

When you consider the regular sales, IL-2 is probably the cheapest sim to get into. Not counting Warthunder with its awful free to play business model, and its certainly much better than DCS which requires you buying planes, maps, asset packs and everything else individually at full game prices.

[grcurmudgeon]

I don't think the issue with getting people onto multiplayer servers is the cost of the BoX product. There is a LONG history of low numbers on multiplayer flight sims, you might be lucky to get 200-300 back when it was just Air Warrior and flight sims were more popular. You need a way to train the pilots up, otherwise newcomers just get killed or vulched right away and never come back (or they form squadrons of noobies to learn together, but that was a long time ago in a flight sim far far away...) And they have to find the server, figure out if it's right for them. I'm not set up to play full realism, for example (complicated engine management is not my idea of fun, and there is not enough resolution on a modern computer monitor to make me turn icons off) which limits the BoX servers I might decide to join.

 

While I agree the initial player base is important, there is more than just getting people to buy the game needed to get the multiplayer player base up.

[PatrickAWlson]

Here I am with stick, throttle, rudder VR, and gaming computer, and quite often I can't bring myself to start up IL2.  Reason?  It requires effort to play this game, and sometimes I don't have the energy to do it.  It is the same reason that I love this game.  I would never want to see it dumbed down.  However, it does take a certain energy threshold to get going. 

 

So what if your point of view is totally casual, as is the case with many gamers.  You're not going to play it even if it is free.

 

Having said that, some of the ideas posted here are very good.  Up to 1C to crunch the numbers to come up with a marketing strategy, which is not an easy thing when you are selling a very well made but very intensive gaming experience.

 

[Varibraun]

13 hours ago, Thorne said:

I love this game, it's great--in fact it's the best VR combat experience on PC.

 

Hi Thorne - I completely agree with you on this in VR and it is also great that there are so many different ways to play it thanks to the Team and the community.  Personally, I am not going to question Jason or 1C on their business decisions since Jason "righted" the ship several years ago and has kept a steady course of improvements and new content ever since. 

 

That said, I also agree with you that getting more players (friends, family and others) aboard is in all of our interest.  However, on this point, I agree with @Missionbug, that jumping into the multiplayer servers with our new recruits may not be the best approach.  I have over 1700 hours (mostly in SP campaigns/PWCG) and am still mostly cannon fodder when I dip my toe into MP for a change of pace.  Most gamers new to IL-2 are going to find flying difficult enough without having to contend with the Experten that patrol our MP world.  For many, dying over and over again at the hands of another player can be a real turn-off in trying a new genre.   

 

The best approach I have found with the folks I have introduced is to fly together in Coop (starting with single missions - Vander's Mission Creator is a great tool to start and working up to PWCG's Coop Campaign).  Buying BoS on Steam during a sale is easy and an inexpensive entry that then can be linked to an IL-2 account to buy everything else directly from 1C if you have peaked their interest to continue.  The SP scripted campaigns are also a way add some immersion for new players to develop some historical background.

 

EDIT - Just saw that several others above made this same point, probably better than me, while I was typing.

 

8 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

I remember buying my first expansion to the old AH boardgame Squad Leader. The original game I got as a present as it was a whopping $16

 

FWIW - I did the same back in 1977 and I just did an inflation calculator and that equals $72.23 today.  This whole series is an amazing bargain...and get off my lawn!!

[Zeev]

As long as this game costs 10000 less than DCS I am OK with this.
You have more days in year that offer sales than normal price.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Zeev

[SAG]

53 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

The best approach I have found with the folks I have introduced is to fly together in Coop (starting with single missions - Vander's Mission Creator is a great tool to start and working up to PWCG's Coop Campaign).  Buying BoS on Steam during a sale is easy and an inexpensive entry that then can be linked to an IL-2 account to buy everything else directly from 1C if you have peaked their interest to continue.  The SP scripted campaigns are also a way add some immersion for new players to develop some historical background.

 

Getting new people into Coop sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Is it still a nightmare to setup coop games? like needing a "Server" account? (i don't remember the name)
Make hosting a Coop game as easy as the QMB and your idea would be nice to help new pilots. also integrating SRS directly into the game would help new pilots find "instructors" to help them out, I for one have always been happy to show the ropes to new players when i find them in one of the different voice-chats the community uses-
...............................................................................................................................

I would like to give my view on the acquisition of new players:

-The barrier of entry isn't about the price of the game, it is about peripherals, the need for instant gratification and, most importantly, user friendliness-

 

I think for many it is hard to justify getting a controller that will work in "only one" game, even if it's a 30 dollar joystick.
I takes a "lot of time" to set up your controls for you brand-new controller when you have no idea what you're doing, hell, I still hate it when I have to re-map everything because i forgot to backup my files before formatting my pc, and i've been with BoS since 2014.

Last, and the point I think is the most important, this game is incredibly not-user-friendly. most games get you through a heavily scripted step-by-step tutorial when you boot the game for the first time, here you open the game and nothing, go figure out how to fly an accurate representation of a WWII flying war machine by yourself.
 

[JimTM]

49 minutes ago, SAG said:

 

Getting new people into Coop sounds like a pretty good idea to me. Is it still a nightmare to setup coop games? like needing a "Server" account? (i don't remember the name)
Make hosting a Coop game as easy as the QMB and your idea would be nice to help new pilots. also integrating SRS directly into the game would help new pilots find "instructors" to help them out, I for one have always been happy to show the ropes to new players when i find them in one of the different voice-chats the community uses-

...

 

 

Note that you do not need a server account for a "DServer" to try out a coop game. You can start a server by clicking the CREATE SERVER button in the Choose Cooperative Server screen.

 

If you want to take advantage of more powerful server performance, you can get a free server account and set up a DServer on a separate PC by following the instructions in Chapter 11 of the mission editor manual.

Edited October 5, 2021 by JimTM

[SAG]

20 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

Note that you do not need a server account for a "DServer" to try out a coop game. You can start a server by clicking the CREATE SERVER button in the Choose Cooperative Server screen.

 

If you want to take advantage of more powerful server performance, you can get a free server account and set up a DServer on a separate PC by following the instructions in Chapter 11 of the mission editor manual.

 

Thanks for that. or was it opening ports that was necessary for hosting CoOP? I remember there being an obstacle of that sort when I tried doing it.