Developer Diary 293 - Discussion

[catchthefoxes]

I love it when you give us modifications!!!

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

My secret suspicion for why the 88C was selected for Normandy when it's not a very capable aircraft for 1944 is that we're also going to get some of the P variants with outsized cannons. Anyone see anything in these screenshots that confirms or denies my guess?

[-332FG-Zephyr096]

2 hours ago, IV./JG51-C_Yamas said:

So it basically replaces bf110?

I think it'd be more comparable to the A-20G than a heavy fighter.

Light/medium bomber that is modified for more frontal firepower, but still handles like a bomber and is not designed to dogfight the way a heavy fighter like the 110 can.

[ww2fighter20]

2 hours ago, LukeFF said:

That would be an entirely different plane.

Was the Ju88R series not basically the C6 with the BMW engines?

[ShamrockOneFive]

3 hours ago, IV./JG51-C_Yamas said:

So it basically replaces bf110?

 

No. Used in different roles and for different purposes. Ju88C-6's had more range so more of a penetration strike role than the 110. Of course at Normandy it did not get used for its intended role all that much once the invasion was on.

 

The Me410 is more of the Bf110 replacement although that never fully panned out for them either. The Me410 in some variants were also replacing some Ju88's in the bomber role. That's just how things were going by the end of the war.

[Imperator_TFD]

Do I spy a bola gondola x2 20mm modification?  That's a lot of forward firepower!

 

[CUJO_1970]

Yes 3 20mm cannon and 3 MG17, six forward firing guns. It will make mincemeat out of anything that gets in front of it.

The external bomb racks add a whole new dimension and bring a lot more value to this aircraft.

[Avimimus]

1 hour ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

My secret suspicion for why the 88C was selected for Normandy when it's not a very capable aircraft for 1944 is that we're also going to get some of the P variants with outsized cannons. Anyone see anything in these screenshots that confirms or denies my guess?

 

The P variant was very rare - so I think it unlikely.

 

We lack a slow bomber (Wellington, Il-4) for it to attack or the Beaufighter (which outmatched it but was at least slower)... so with the exception of hunting the occasional Li-2 night bomber it doesn't really have much of a place in the fighter role.

 

I suspect it is actually because the Ju-88C was widely used in an intruder role from 1942-1945... strafing trains, attacking ships, harassing enemy troops at night. It had long range, decent handling and three crew... which made it quite effective in these roles. It is basically the strafer variant of the Ju-88A we already have - so think of it as being similar to us getting a A-20G... 

 

In any case the Ju-88C was present historically, people actually went to war in it - so it has a place in the Sim. Not all aircraft need to have an advantage or even many 'good qualities' to be worth including - this simulation is recreating history rather than making a game.

 

P.S. There is a small chance we'll see the Norwegian theatre 2xMk-103 armament for the Me-410 (after all, we're getting a Mosquito variant that was used mainly in Norway), or a 37mm cannon, or a 50mm cannon for it - so if you're hoping for something like the Ju-88P - that would be the most likely candidate.

[LukeFF]

51 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Used in different roles and for different purposes. Ju88C-6's had more range so more of a penetration strike role than the 110.

 

Yes, it was also used in the East (hint: Kuban ?) in train-busting squadrons, flying deep behind the lines to strike at Soviet rail and road traffic wherever it could be found. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by LukeFF

[ShamrockOneFive]

6 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Yes, it was also used in the East (hint: Kuban ?) in train-busting squadrons, flying deep behind the lines to strike at Soviet rail and road traffic wherever it could be found. 

 

Yes! I'm excited about that sort of thing too!

Also... a reader pointed out to me that there are 20mm cannons in the gondola. So, pretty much confirmed were getting the 3 cannon version (at least as an option). Do we know yet if these are MG151/20 or MG-FF/M or some combination?

 

[Boomerang]

Thank you Jason and Team, looking fantastic. Wishing all are well. 

[JG4_Moltke1871]

The upcoming twin engine beauty’s are the reason to continue my life. ?

Everyone should be have patience but these pictures makes it difficult to wait!!!! ???

Continue your good work and we will jumping around happy ?

 

[Dutchvdm]

The ju-88 looks good! I’n not sure if want to fly it that badly during the Normandy campaign, but i’m hoping we can use it in the Stalingrad and Kuban career as well.

 

Grt M

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

The ju-88 looks good! I’n not sure if want to fly it that badly during the Normandy campaign, but i’m hoping we can use it in the Stalingrad and Kuban career as well.

 

It's planned for Kuban at the moment, along with two new units - 7.(Eis)/KG 51 and 9./KG 55.

[Dutchvdm]

5 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

It's planned for Kuban at the moment, along with two new units - 7.(Eis)/KG 51 and 9./KG 55.

Nice! That sounds interesting.

 

Grt

 

M

 

[LukeFF]

4 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Dutchvdm said:

Nice! That sounds interesting.

 

Yes, they both operated from the eastern Crimean peninsula in the Spring of 1943. The KG 51 staffel was there until moving north for Operation Citadel at the beginning of July; the KG 55 unit was there until it was reorganized as a cannon-armed He 111 squadron and sent north to Ukraine at beginning of June.

Edited September 11, 2021 by LukeFF

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Did the Ju88-C6 use torpedoes in anti shipping attacks?

[LukeFF]

1 minute ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

Did the Ju88-C6 use torpedoes in anti shipping attacks?

 

No

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

7 hours ago, Avimimus said:

The P variant was very rare - so I think it unlikely.

Ju 88P-4 w. 50mm gun - 32 aircraft

Mosquito FB Mk.XVIII w. 57mm gun - 18 aircraft

 

And we're getting the Tsetse. P series 88s would be an unusual mod, but we already have plenty of unusual mods related to fitting strange guns to aircraft, so I don't see it as outside the bounds of possibility on that account.

[Bremspropeller]

9 hours ago, ww2fighter20 said:

Was the Ju88R series not basically the C6 with the BMW engines?

 

Yes. It has 300 horses more each side, so it would be a great contender for the Mossie.

 

It would be a night-fighter, though, and the additional horses were pretty much eaten up be the additional night-fighter mods in the real airplane.

 

 

 

 

Will the BoLa be removable?

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2021 by Bremspropeller

[Juri_JS]

7 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

Also... a reader pointed out to me that there are 20mm cannons in the gondola. So, pretty much confirmed were getting the 3 cannon version (at least as an option). Do we know yet if these are MG151/20 or MG-FF/M or some combination?

When zooming in, the gondola guns look like MG-FF/M. I think the nose gun is also a MG-FF/M, because MG151/20 would protrude.

 

37 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

It's planned for Kuban at the moment...

I hope it will be added to Stalingrad too. III./KG76 used several C-6s when based at Tazinskaya between August and October 1942. One of the mission types they flew were attacks on ships on the Volga.

[DN308]

@LukeFF and @=FB=VikS: If we can have such variants, maybe can we hope for hard/heavily gunned nose on Havoc/A-20? And of course bomber’s bubble nose on the Mossie???!!!

Edited September 11, 2021 by DN308

[Chief_Mouser]

8 minutes ago, DN308 said:

@LukeFF and @=FB=VikS: If we can have such variants, maybe can we hope for hard/heavily gunned nose on Havoc/A-20? And of course bomber’s bubble nose on the Mossie???!!!

 

It would be nice, but with the problems Jason's outlined with the current development (lack of staff etc) I can't see it happening for quite a while. See what gets announced after BoN is finishing and then maybe we can all get our hopes up once more!

[[F.Circus]FrangibleCover]

I think hoping for variants of aircraft from previous packs is misguided, they're going to be a lot of effort for no subsequent profit. I'd certainly like to see them though, I wonder if 1C have considered 'upgrade packs' like the old Ace pack from Rise of Flight to bring the older aircraft to more modern standards of tickbox mods (M-105PA for the Stalingrad fighters, limited boost for the 109F-4 for Moscow, Soviet turret for A-20B, StuVi etc.). I'd definitely buy that and it seems to me like it would be less effort to do some of these modifications, especially the ones that involve no model changes at all, than it would be to make a collector aircraft.

 

Obviously the team are very busy at the moment, I'm neither demanding that this be added immediately, nor expecting it soon, but it seems like a better idea than just hoping that they'll give up some of their time to upgrade stuff they've already sold.

Edited September 11, 2021 by [F.Circus]FrangibleCover
Responding to comment above.

[Rapierarch]

Psst, you have forgotten to delete all layers of swastika from the textures on the vertical stabilizer. 

[Bremspropeller]

Just had a quick stroll through "Bloody Biscay" and found out there were a couple of Ju 88R-2 operational in Zerstörer configuration.

That includes three MG151/20s.

[Avimimus]

2 hours ago, DN308 said:

@LukeFF and @=FB=VikS: If we can have such variants, maybe can we hope for hard/heavily gunned nose on Havoc/A-20? And of course bomber’s bubble nose on the Mossie???!!!

 

I think one thing people under-estimate is the amount of work a new variant takes. At this level of fidelity a Ju-88P or an A-20G is going to be largely built from scratch (although able to re-use a lot of existing research). We were lucky in that the Mosquito variants were so similar to each other.

 

That said, while we're speculating... the A-20G-1 has a heavier cannon armament and was more extensively used in Russia... although the American A-20G variants were used a bit in Europe, and there is also the possible benefits from a British A-20G (Boston III)... despite the outward similarity of the G-1 and the Boston III to our current variant they'd all apparently have to be built from scratch according to LukeFF - and I gather he knows his A-20s more than I do!

  

2 hours ago, [F.Circus]FrangibleCover said:

I think hoping for variants of aircraft from previous packs is misguided, they're going to be a lot of effort for no subsequent profit. I'd certainly like to see them though, I wonder if 1C have considered 'upgrade packs' like the old Ace pack from Rise of Flight to bring the older aircraft to more modern standards of tickbox mods (M-105PA for the Stalingrad fighters, limited boost for the 109F-4 for Moscow, Soviet turret for A-20B, StuVi etc.). I'd definitely buy that and it seems to me like it would be less effort to do some of these modifications, especially the ones that involve no model changes at all, than it would be to make a collector aircraft.

 

Obviously the team are very busy at the moment, I'm neither demanding that this be added immediately, nor expecting it soon, but it seems like a better idea than just hoping that they'll give up some of their time to upgrade stuff they've already sold.

 

Hmm.... well, that was where I thought doing something like releasing 'anniversary editions' for each module might be viable - with two new aircraft/variants, a few new objects, missions and features... - have it as a paid upgrade from existing users for the DLC and increase the price of the Premium edition for new users.

 

[Denum]

11 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

Hmm.... well, that was where I thought doing something like releasing 'anniversary editions' for each module might be viable - with two new aircraft/variants, a few new objects, missions and features... - have it as a paid upgrade from existing users for the DLC and increase the price of the Premium edition for new users.

 

 

I like that idea!

[=FB=VikS]

15 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Is there any word on whether we'll get the mixed MG-FF/MG-151 cannon armament as an option?

 

yes, it will be possible to replace one fuselage mounted MG-FF/M for MG-151/20

[Avimimus]

2 minutes ago, =FB=VikS said:

yes, it will be possible to replace one fuselage mounted MG-FF/M for MG-151/20

 

Yay! Honestly, I don't expect any of these details but the sense of satisfaction from knowing they are there and we can look forward to them is immense.

[Spaz-505]

Looks really sweet guys!.. looking forward to it being added!!!  As always, thanks to the entire team for your continued development of this great sim!!!Looks really sweet guys!.. looking forward to it being added!!!  As always, thanks to the entire team for your continued development of this great sim!!!

[Jameswildwood]

Looking fantastic guy's , really looking forward to this. Many many thanks!!??

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

yes, it will be possible to replace one fuselage mounted MG-FF/M for MG-151/20

 

Nice! When did they start making that armament change during the war?

Edited September 11, 2021 by LukeFF

[Luftschiff]

18 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

 

That'd be in the Ju-88C6b variant as a field mod... this is the C6a alas...

 

We'll be lucky if we get more than one cannon option for the nose... we're not getting the crazy jazz.

 

Oh I know, but, y'know... one can hope. In all honesty the only reason the C6 is even in Normandy is as minimum possible effort filler unfortunately.

Nothing unique about it, and no role to fill in MP other than as chaff. It's no bomber, it's no fighter, it's surpassed in every function by other aircraft.

...But it IS pretty.

 

[Avimimus]

29 minutes ago, Luftschiff said:

Oh I know, but, y'know... one can hope. In all honesty the only reason the C6 is even in Normandy is as minimum possible effort filler unfortunately.

Nothing unique about it, and no role to fill in MP other than as chaff. It's no bomber, it's no fighter, it's surpassed in every function by other aircraft.

...But it IS pretty.

 

Hmm... well I suppose that is the difference between multiplayer meta based game and a historical flight simulator right there!

 

Turns out history was full of 'filler' built with the 'minimum possible effort'... 

 

P.S. As for gameplay - I think it represents an interesting challenge to fly a campaign in - and an interesting AI target to occasionally encounter. So there is lots of potential, especially in single-player. If I limited my single-player experience to picking the aircraft that gave me the greatest advantages against my opponents... it'd be pretty boring flying the same plane over and over.

[Asgar]

3 hours ago, =FB=VikS said:

 

yes, it will be possible to replace one fuselage mounted MG-FF/M for MG-151/20

great news... since we're talking armament options for planes. any big guns planned for the 410? ?

[Lusekofte]

I am going to change over to the dark side for that JU88. 

It will be a great challange

[PatrickAWlson]

I intend to make the Ju88C something different.  In the east (Kuban) it will be a train buster and anti shipping unit.  In the west it will start as anti shipping and nuisance raider.  During the invasion it will convert to ground attack.  Then on to train busting, nuisance, and (as much as possible) anti shipping afterwards.  

 

The nuisance raiding is going to be a challenge.  It's different enough from ground attack to require a little different profile.  Fly even lower.  Pop up to drop.  Somewhat different target set, usually further out.  I'm hoping it will end up being a fun SP career.

 

[Frequent_Flyer]

Destroyers look great, hoping in the not too distant future we see something with a hull number starting with " CV".

[FTC_Zero]

Will the ju88 c6 have radar support? I apologize if that question is redundant..