I.A.R.-80/81 References Topic.

[=FB=VikS]

At the moment the most complete reference about IAR is Radu Brinzan`s book - Vanator.

But yet if there is something elce available about it - it would be great, so if you have something interesting regarding this airplane - please help us with it.

 

At the moment the most interest it:

- is there any more detailed photos of Romanian modification of gunsight - I.A.R.-I.O.R Teleflex gunsight, maybe there is any kind of its detailed description available? Actually its clear, that the handle at the left - changes gunsight mirror angle, but thats it. High res photos of gunsight, one exemplar is available in Military Museum in Bucharest, maybe someone nearby can take some close-up photos?;

- if there any mode details about control stick for both - IAR-80 and 81 (single grip and spade grip)? Especially about bombs electrical switch/selector located on its lower part - how it operated?;

- any kind of detailed performance references, evaluation test and such, weight of airplane parts;

- high res photos of any kind related to airplane.

 

Thanks!

[No105_Swoose]

There are a couple of pages on Facebook with links to groups that have plans to build a flight worthy reproduction IAR 80.  Maybe they would be good sources of information? http://www.iar80.org/?fbclid=IwAR0z9MoSVC_BH2EjHVsCfEjKrs-oLxwOUC0jGbUkgMI9qsIk6oYiKo4Ec7Q#section0.    https://www.iar80flyagain.org/?fbclid=IwAR0VACdKJQZFOdRvnx3W3kJFDI9UMFuyLGKkliG6sswkVgzECCiAkvXCi-o

Edited July 14, 2021 by No105_Swoose
Added second URL

[ZachariasX]

Maybe their Archive can be of help:

http://www.iar80.org/en/home/archive-documentation/

 

 

[LukeFF]

@=FB=VikS, it seems like the gunsight was a modification of the model used on the Hurricane Mk II:

 

http://spitfirespares.co.uk/gunsites.html

https://www.rumaniamilitary.ro/sistem-de-ochire-iar-80-i#prettyPhoto

 

 

From what I tell from this image, the data plate says:

 

 

COLIMATOR TELE - REFLEX

[Unknown] I.A.R.

[Unknown] I.A.R. [Unknown]

 

The middle ring says DISTANTA | MTR. 100. The settings seem to be 1.5, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

 

The bottom ring says BAZA | MTR. The range settings seem to go 0, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by LukeFF

[CUJO_1970]

 

 

 

[Jaws2002]

Sorry for showing up so late. I got a month suspension.

 VikS do you guys have Radu's book? 

 He released two of them the first one is around 70 pages and the second one is a lot more detailed. 

I have both of them. 

 If you don't have it I can scan everything you need and send you. I sent some scans to Jason about a month ago. Right now I'm not at home and I can't scan, but I can take photos of the pages you need and send them to you.

At home I have more stuff and I'll send you when I get home.

 

Anyway. Here are the pages from the book about gunfight.  If you need high resolution scans I can do that in a few days.

Edited July 30, 2021 by Jaws2002

[=FB=VikS]

11 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Sorry for showing up so late. I got a month suspension.

 VikS do you guys have Radu's book? 

 

Hi Jaws!

 

Yes - we have it.

[Jaws2002]

Cool. I'll see what else I can find when I get home. 

 Thank you for doing the IAR. 

[Jaws2002]

Sorry for the late replay...Life keeps getting in the way of fun.

 

 

Here's some IAR-80/81 stuff that i found at home. It's mostly info that is available here or there online.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/8qic6qekkv7n63p/IAR-81walk_around.7z/file

 

 If you need me to translate some parts of those manuals I could do that. 

I'm in Canada and can't go to the Museum to take some photos of the gunsight and control column. I did contact some people in Romania, from the society that tries to build a IAR-80, but no answer so far. 

 

 About the gunsights.

 The IOR gunsight is a license built copy of the Goertz G2 and internally is identical and function is identical. The only things different are the lens attachment. The reticle dimmer 1.) is attached on a hinge and it can be dropped horizontally in front of the sight. like in this photo:

 

 

As you can see the reticle dimmer is folded down in front of the sight by pushing that front lever on the left-front. The larger lever 2.) adjusts the mirror angle. At least that's how it's explained on page 194 i posted in the earlier post.

 

 

The rings are explained by Luke. Top ring is range to target in hundreds of meters. :   DISTANTA  I  MTR x 100

 bottom ring is for wingspan  in meters:     BAZA I  MTR

The adjustment and reticle is explained on page 192 where it explains the Goretz gunsight.

 

The bombing controls are a bit more complicated.

 There's a distribution box on the right wall where you can select witch bomb do you want to drop. Because the wing stations could also carry fuel tanks, there's one button for each station. Left wing, center and right wing. It's on the bottom of this photo marked with 172.

 

 

Next controls differ for IAR-81 and IAR81C. 

IAR81 (6x7.92mm mgs + bombs) used the stick type control column. and bombs were dropped with the machine gun "trigger"/lever on the stick. You could switch the function of the trigger from firing machine guns to dropping bombs. There's a selector for center bombs and one for wing bombs. The selector for wing bombs is in the center- bottom of the control panel in this image marked with 1.:

 

When the knob is turned left the trigger shoots MGs and when it's rotated right it drops wing bombs or drop tanks. The Bomb control panel, marked with 2 on that image, does the same thing, but for the center bomb. On top of that it connects the dive brake to the trigger, so when you drop the center bomb, it would also automatically retract the flaps/dive brake. 

  The knob for the wing guns was moved on the control stick for IAR-81C, and it's place was taken by the tap for the second oil radiator. 

I wasn't able to find more info about the spade grip. I know it had three buttons on the top of the oval grip, The center was for the radio, and the other two were one for MGs and one for cannons. The brake was moved to the lever in the center of the ring.

I only saw a small drawing for this spade grip, it's marked with number 208 in this image. Top right. 

 

If i get something else from Romania I'll post it.

 

Good luck.

  

Edited August 13, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

A little more info, harder to find, about the IAR-80 B weapons, because this guns are not modelled yet in game.

 This version was armed with four 7.92x57mm FN Browning machines guns and a pair of 13.2x99mm FN browning machine guns.

 This 13.2mm guns were a modernized and improved version of the US.50 Browning, chambered in the 13.2x99mm Hotkiss cartridge, that was a lot more wide spread in Europe at the time, than the original .50BMG. This are made by the Belgian weapons company Fabrique National.

It was lighter and faster firing than the original .50.

here are some drawings and specs of the gun:

 

 

 

What is harder to find are the specs of the ammo. FN made this guns specially to be used in aircraft, so they developed a very effective high explosive round. This guns caused a lot of interest in 1939-1940, but Belgium was occupied in 1940 and only Romania, Sweden and Finland got this guns. The Finns got them in 12.7mm loading, so the high performance 13.2mm was only available to Sweden and Romania.

 

Here are the specs of the ammunition:

 

IF you model this version of the IAR, this will come in handy since this info is rather hard to find. 

[Escadrila57-24]

I've made a comment on another IL-2 forum  post - i'm thinking that is better found here : 

 

http://www.iar80.org/  There this a project about IAR-80/81  that try's to bring up / help in  providing documentation and  3D modeling information ( more like actual production factory CAD's  as the people involved are aerospace engineers ).  Scroll up and down on the pages  and click on the titles/sections/articles.  They what to recreate a real 1:1  replica of the plane eventually and fly it.  I am posting it here   for the il-2 team  / designated 3D modeler ( Ivan ) of IAR-80  to contact them or find inspiration in there work.  In there  Mission Statement   it points to topics related to : helping   other  organisations   willing to educate themselfs  in popularising the IAR-80  and having  experience exchange related to  ww2 era plane knowledge.   You are both in the bussines of  making 3d models ( themself actualy building the plane ) and having  historical accurate representations.   Use both languages :  RO & EN  for the site. 

 

There are realy good into archive digging so some use may be come out of this. 

Also they make a list of good books to buy about the topic. 

 

Can see that a few already provided the links to the website. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Escadrila57-24

[=FB=VikS]

On 8/13/2021 at 2:56 AM, Jaws2002 said:

The bombing controls are a bit more complicated.

 There's a distribution box on the right wall where you can select witch bomb do you want to drop. Because the wing stations could also carry fuel tanks, there's one button for each station. Left wing, center and right wing. It's on the bottom of this photo marked with 172.

 

 

 

Jaws, you noted that selector on the right wall - is for the bombs selection - and it had 3x position (for left-center-right bombs) - what is the source of that information?

 

Also, in case of "electrically controlled" weapons airplane (IAR 80B and 80C)  - the ones with "spade grip" stick - does that kind og airplane have an bomb control box on the dashboard - and only have bombs selector on the right wall? if so - how it dropped bombs then?

 

PS: i will also try to contact guys from http://www.iar80.org/ - maybe they had something about it.

[Jaws2002]

Hello VikS. 

IAR-80, IAR-80A, IAR-80B and IAR 80C could not carry bombs at all. Iar80B and 80C could carry drop tanks, but not bombs. earlier IAR-80/80A could not carry neither tanks nor bombs.

Bombs could only be carried by the 81 and 81C. Both 81 and 81C have the bomb/ control panel on the dash and the bomb selector on the right wall.  planes that could carry fuel tanks but no bombs (80b with large wing and 80C)  still had the distribution box on the right wall for the drop tanks. This planes had the oval grip and the trigger mode selector was moved on the grip, like with 81C.

 

 

The distribution box on the right wall is shown in the drawings on top of the page 276 in Radu's book. 

 

 

There's also some mention of it in the drop tanks section of the book. I know I've seen somewhere else an explanation of this box, but i don't remember exactly where. Maybe in the manual. 

 Maybe this electrical diagrams, from page 293 explains something, but I'm not good at reading electrical diagrams. 

 

 

 

 

 

electrical diagrams:

I'll look into this a bit more later tonight. Maybe I can find more clear information. I did try to contact IAR-80.org but they never answered.

[=FB=VikS]

1 hour ago, Jaws2002 said:

Bombs could only be carried by the 81 and 81C. Both 81 and 81C have the bomb/ control panel on the dash and the bomb selector on the right wall.  planes that could carry fuel tanks but no bombs (80b with large wing and 80C)  still had the distribution box on the right wall for the drop tanks. This planes had the oval grip and the trigger mode selector was moved on the grip, like with 81C.

 

yes, but for what that distributon box (at right wall) used for?

As in one of prev pictures you posted - instrument board have wing bombs selector (pos 1) on dash - in this case there will be two distribution boxes for wing bombs - for what?

 

 

 

 

PS: here is exception about fuel tanks

 

 

 

and it seems that its about airplane with "spade" grip control stick (cause series description says that inew stick started to appear from IAR-80B #181) with selector on dashboard (?) which changed mode of one of the 3x buttons on"spade" grip - which used for MG fire - to drop tanks? (and for later series IAR-81 bombs or tanks?)

[Jaws2002]

We have two boxes, because the wings could carry both bombs or tanks, but the center only could carry bombs. So you can carry wing tanks and central bomb.

 You want to drop the tanks, you press the buttons at left and right, for the wing points on the right wall and switch the selector #1 in the bomb position. Then when you press the trigger you just drop the tanks, that's it. nothing else happened. 

 

 

When the bomb control box, with #2 in that image is in the "robinete" (valves) position, it does more than just drops the bombs. The box has three positions off/ "cartuse" (bullets) and "robinete" (valves). when you move the selector to Robinete the selector will extend the flaps to the dive brake position and lock it. It will also switch the trigger from guns to bomb release. When you press the trigger, it will drop the bomb and automatically retract the flaps.

That's why they have separate boxes for wing and center bombs. When you drop the wing tanks you don't need to mess around with the flaps.

 The switch box on the right wall has three buttons and it just selects what positions will drop when you pull the trigger.

 

Many IAR-81C's had the central bomb rack removed and they many times went out as just fighter bomber, with a pair of 50kg, 70kg or 100kg bombs on the wings. That wall selector allowed them to drop the bombs individually.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

1 hour ago, =FB=VikS said:

and it seems that its about airplane with "spade" grip control stick (cause series description says that inew stick started to appear from IAR-80B #181) with selector on dashboard (?) which changed mode of one of the 3x buttons on"spade" grip - which used for MG fire - to drop tanks? (and for later series IAR-81 bombs or tanks?)

 

 

The trigger was used to do everything, shoot guns, drop bombs or drop tanks.  Now on the later planes, with spade grip, I don't know if they had the bombs dropped with cannon/ heavy MG trigger, or with the light caliber MG trigger. The book is saying that the selector #1 was moved on the spade grip from the dash, but I wasn't able to find a photo or diagram of it.

Edited December 15, 2021 by Jaws2002

[=FB=VikS]

19 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

 The switch box on the right wall has three buttons and it just selects what positions will drop when you pull the trigger.

 

btw - have you found the source of that info - about 3x buttons on this box at right wall? As electics sheme (for electrically operated guns airplane) - had only two way selector (rotary)

[Jaws2002]

I'm still digging, but one drawing i had from an older Romanian magazine, shows that distribution box, but the side view of it looks just like some electrical fuse and passthrough box. 

 

In all images it's called bomb distribution box, but maybe just an electrical distribution panel, with fuses. No buttons.

 

in this one it's the box with number 172, but in the side view, image it doesn't show like a box with buttons, just some simple electrical box.

 

 

 

 

 

The box is also visible in this image with number 32, it's called "Cutie distributie pentru lansatorul de bombe" Bomb distribution box, but there's no description.

 

escription.

  I think I may have been wrong about this box. Maybe there's nothing to switch here, just fuses or wires. 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Jaws2002

[Jaws2002]

You are absolutely right. I had a better look at that electrical diagram that I posted yesterday and all boxes called called "cutie distributie"/ distribution box, are just circuit breakers. There are no switches, or buttons in that box.

 

I'm sorry about misleading you. A lot of things about this plane are confusing. 

 

[migmadmarine]

Unhelpful I know but the fact that distribution box in Romanian is "cutie distributie" is wonderful. 

[=FB=VikS]

On 12/17/2021 at 12:23 AM, Jaws2002 said:

You are absolutely right. I had a better look at that electrical diagram that I posted yesterday and all boxes called called "cutie distributie"/ distribution box, are just circuit breakers. There are no switches, or buttons in that box.

 

I'm sorry about misleading you. A lot of things about this plane are confusing. 

 

 

No problem Jaws! 
Its better to discuss all things before its too  late, than after

[=FB=VikS]

Hi again!

 

Maybe anyone know - in case when IAR have been equipped with fuel drop tanks - was there any additional fuel controls in the pilot cockpit?

 

@Jaws2002 ?

 

PS: there is a fuel diagram related to drop-tank modification in the book, but its not clear which parts are related to cockpit controls.

 

 

 

[Faustnik]

This is all that I have been able to see.

 

[CUJO_1970]

We have a Faustnik sighting!

[Jaws2002]

Hey sorry for the delay.

 I had a look at the differences between the drawings on pages 39 and 40 on this .PDF and the only differences are the ones I circled. It looks like there's an extra valve (or two)  I don't know where those are in the plane. I had a look, but can't tell.

 

link to PDF:

 

https://www.mediafire.com/file/j1dnp0h9kpf7q5q/IAR-81-Catalog-cu-Piese-de-Schimb.pdf/file

 

 

[=FB=VikS]

13 hours ago, Jaws2002 said:

Hey sorry for the delay.

 I had a look at the differences between the drawings on pages 39 and 40 on this .PDF and the only differences are the ones I circled. It looks like there's an extra valve (or two)  I don't know where those are in the plane. I had a look, but can't tell.

 

so seems like its a lalve in cockpit (kind of the same as it was in 109-s).

 

So its time for some imagination work

 

btw - is there any specific term about drop tanks in Romanian? In short - for info placard against valve.

[Jaws2002]

In Romanian drop tank is called " Rezervor suplimentar"  (additional fuel tank) or Rezerrvor largabil (Dropable tank)

 

"Rezervor suplimentar" is the most used name. A short abbreviation could be 

  "rezervor sup." or   " rez. sup."

 

 

https://www.iar80flyagain.org/rezervoare-largabile-iar-80-varianta-din-carton-presat/ 

"REZERVOARE SUPLIMENTARE FABRICATE DIN HÂRTIE – IAR 80"

https://www.hotnews.ro/stiri-arhiva-1040494-mig-21-lancer-pierdut-rezervorul-pajiste.htm

"Un MIG-21 LanceR apartinand Bazei 95 Aeriene Bacau si-a pierdut marti rezorvorul suplimentar in timp ce efectua o misiune de cercetare meteorologica." ( a Mig-21 lost it's drop tank)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Jaws2002

[=FB=VikS]

@Jaws2002

Thanks! 

[=FB=VikS]

Bump the thread

So - did anyone have more detailed photos of I.A.R.-I.O.R Teleflex gunsight? (except the ones posted on this page?).
Cause its not clearly vicible - whats on the left plate of the gunsight (wheres handle for mirror angle adjustment).

[SYN_Haashashin]

Viks, it seems a forum member is visiting the museums and might get the needed photos. @AndreiTomescu

 

[ICDP]

I have looked at a few books and images but cannot get a decent idea of what these look like?

 

Anyone able to provide a more detailed image before I have to guess

 

 

[Jaws2002]

This image is the best I could find that shows the bottom of the wing in that area.

 

 

They look very similar with the fasteners on the machine gun panel on the leading edge. Looks like flat head screws.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Jaws2002

[ICDP]

Thanks for this.  I have the same image and it looks like a tlot of the plans drawings are wrong based on that.

[Jaws2002]

Agree.

 

On those drawings it looks like a different type of fasteners, but I think are the same fasteners used on the leading edge panel.

 

[Jaws2002]

This is for =FB=VikS.

 

I found the second edition of the manual. I don't know if you have it. It's written in 1943 and has a lot more info than the 1941 version. It's based around IAR-80B armed with 13.2mm FN guns. There's some info about the MG-FF versions as well.

It's posted online and I didn't figure out how to download it. It's split in six parts. Very good details about everything. performance, weapons, good electrical diagrams.

 

Anyway, here it is:

 

https://www.iar80flyagain.org/notita-tehnica-editia-a-ii-a/

 

Example:

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Jaws2002

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

On 9/21/2022 at 7:05 PM, Jaws2002 said:

Anyway, here it is:

 

https://www.iar80flyagain.org/notita-tehnica-editia-a-ii-a/

 

850mm Hg was the maximum boost the engine ran or was there a higher power setting on top of it?

Edited September 22, 2022 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[Jaws2002]

Everything is in that manual. (you can navigate the whole manual from the UP/Down arrows at the bottom of each page.)

 

Maximum boost at ground level is 935+/-10mm for three minutes. Maximum continuous was 850mm.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Jaws2002

[Rei_Ayanami]

Guys, can you please tell me how to drop bombs on IAR? They don’t drop. I guess I shall pull one of the levers somehow?

[Rei_Ayanami]

Oh, I deduced how it’s done by myself, nevermind