Vive Pro 2 Specs: 5K 120Hz LCD, New 120° Lenses, SteamVR Tracking ($799 headset only, $1399 full kit)

[HunDread]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:30 AM, ICDP said:

The GPU situation is shocking right now and I feel both Nvidia and AMD are drip feeding to keep their prices high.

 

Yes they definitely enjoy the situation the very least if not deliberately creating it. If I had to I would vote for the second.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Massive inflation regarding all items requiring semiconductors will hit us anyway due to the pandemic and increased demand. Also, Germany's car manufacturers are heavily buying into them since last year too afaik. So I would not expect the prices to fall by a lot through the entirety of 2021, to be honest.

 

The 3080ti may probably be around 1500, the 3090 at 2000, and effectively the 3080 will remain at 1200, at least until Q4 2021. That's my expectation..

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

There is some new information out there somewhere (NDAs), so it seems the VP2 does indeed beat the Index' FOV horizontally - but not vertically, albeit pretty close. This has been confirmed.

 

The screen quality seems to be similar to the Reverb G2's, especially regarding the color palette.

The lenses seem to be crystal clear, best ones so far? 

 

We'll see more when the NDAs have lifted.

 

 

[AuburnAlumni]

If I was coming from the Vive or Index environment, and already had base stations, controllers, etc. then I would definitely be interested in checking this out.  But given that I'd be forking over 1500ish bucks for the entire kit vs what I paid for my G2 (which I ended up getting for nearly half off) and the investment I already have in my Quest 2...it's hard to justify spending that much when I already have 2 very good headsets.

 

On top of that, Vive isn't even making their headset wireless compatible for free..you pay another several hundred dollars for that adapter too.  So if you want the full setup you are closing in on 2 grand for the Vive Pro 2....just not a good move financially for a large majority of folks who already own Reverbs or Quests, etc.

 

I am anxious to see reviews on it regardless.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

That's totally fine, the Reverb G2 is a great headset especially for simming.

It's much much more bang for your buck already, than the VP2 could become, certain of that. My VP2 + Knuckles + 2 Basestations 1.0 were 1110€ in total, and I paid 550€ for the Reverb G2 incl. controllers + usb card. The 1:2 ratio is real here... But I want to be back in LH tracking as I play shooters too.

 

 

The wireless module I will eventually check out too, after its update to Index level resolution. I'll be very critical of it. If it's, and I want to be blunt and honest here as Q2 wireless is hyped by its peers way too much, if it's breaking up the picture quality just like the Q2 wireless does, then I'll also call that and return the ant-antennas.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

That's totally fine, the Reverb G2 is a great headset especially for simming.

It's much much more bang for your buck already, than the VP2 could become, certain of that. My VP2 + Knuckles + 2 Basestations 1.0 were 1110€ in total, and I paid 550€ for the Reverb G2 incl. controllers + usb card. The 1:2 ratio is real here... But I want to be back in LH tracking as I play shooters too.

 

 

The wireless module I will eventually check out too, after its update to Index level resolution. I'll be very critical of it. If it's, and I want to be blunt and honest here as Q2 wireless is hyped by its peers way too much, if it's breaking up the picture quality just like the Q2 wireless does, then I'll also call that and return the ant-antennas.

 

The thought of wireless really just does not do much for me, so doubt I will be getting the wireless adapter for the Vive Pro 2.

But in my case a typical VR gaming session can be like 3-5 hours. I don't do what I would call short gaming sessions. So being tethered to the power makes more sense for me. And it really does not bother me.

 

Now maybe on down the road if I live long enough VR will have great wireless capability with very long battery life.

[DBCOOPER011]

It seems there is a review for the vive pro 2 on youtube that will be unlocked in a couple hours.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf3uZ5nGNLE

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

VoodooDE? I wouldn't believe that idiot, he has quoted the G2 with 78°FOV and the Q2's FOV larger than the Index' FOV.

 

The guy seems to generally be confused regarding numbers, and just advertised a Pimax 8KX cable via affiliate link.

 

Might be entertaining, but I'll go by my own tests or MRTV's. They fought on G2's release and MRTV was right as well, even regarding the 8KX (which was horrid). Lean back, get chips, let the carnage and clicks unfold I say.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Info on Voodoo's review:

- He used low resolution, which explains the small sweetspot he experienced. Deducted that from SkyrimVR's performance. Even the 3090 can't run it at 90Hz (8.8ms, check his video) at 3400x3400 at lowest settings, so he should have gone into reprojection. Like in the G2, you must run at 100% SteamVR res, that's what the distortion profile asks for.

- He used minimal IPD setting, seen again in the performance screens (quotes 57mm in fpsVR).

 

 

So, let's wait for the serious, accurate reviews. They'll come very soon.

Edited May 27, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[ICDP]

Voodoo2s review is a worry but I saw one non English review where he showed the VP2 HOV of around 120 deg.  I have a preorder for end of June and have plenty of time to cancel if required.  On top of that we have the 14 day Distance Selling Regulations where you can return for a refund less your postage costs.  My Pimax 8KX is working perfectly, very clear and honestly a great HMD for visuals and FoV so a VP2 is more of an impulse for me because because Pimax as a company suck.

 

It's funny how we can get so many conflicting info on what you would imagine is a purely objective thing such as FOV or image quality.

 

FOr anyone worrying about the VP2 FoV see below from MRTV.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/51745864

Edited May 27, 2021 by ICDP

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Man, this Voodoo guy will cost HTC some customers like this... Either an idiot, or quite the crooked person. But hey, he thought the G2 had 78° HFOV as well.

 

 

 

When I had the G2 and trialed it against the 8KX, I knew which one to keep... (I may have had a bad unit, I can't tell 100%ish, but they wouldn't replace it!).

 

 

 

It's also weird that the reviewers need to return their test units, but behind Voodoo he's stacking more than half a dozen Pimax headsets + sells the new Pimax' optical cable for the 8KX he advertised yesterday. Via affiliate link to Pimax. After SweViver, the second YouTuber they buy?

 

 

 

He made an HTC Cosmos Elite Wireless stream event in the past for which they paid him very well I have heard from a credible source. Here's the link.

 

They didn't pay him this time.

 

 

 

This is almost as bad as Nathie VR, the king of shills who demanded $20k US for his "high quality reviews" from Indie Devs. Don't pay, and you might get a low quality review.

 

I've witnessed this with cosmetics (chemical industry) and the "independent unbiased" YouTube/Insta-Queens as well. "Going to review that product. Anything you'd like to add? Can you provide samples? Eagerly awaiting answer! <3 "

 

That's the reality, ladies and gentlemen.

 

 

And the sheeple in the YouTube comment section all pray to these guys as if they were Jesus... Unbelievable. 

 

 

As @ICDP said, let's wait for more reviews. I'll look at the thing myself anyway.

Edited May 27, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[ICDP]

I am an advocate of cock up before conspiracy, so don't think Voodoo has any preference for Pimax other than for him they just work well.  The fact his top row is all Pimax is more cosmetic than choice because by that logic most of the HMDs in his shelf are NOT Pimax so is he biased against them or something.

 

Honestly it more highlights one of the issue I have with Pimax.  They have so many different HMDs and keep releasing them with minor changes, yet they still don't have a half decent audio solution or their own Sword controllers have been in development for ~4-5 years and seem nowhere close to completion.  Focus (pun intended) on a few HMDs and get them perfect before releasing yest another variant of a variant of a variant.

 

But obligatory Pimax as company rant asside, wait for more VP2 reviews before jumping to conclussions.  I was close to canceling my preorder until I sad let wait until we get more reviews.  I have plenty of time to cance if more reviews come out that are negative.

 

Ironically I stopped watching MRTV reviews because he always seemed to be overly positive.  Then he started being critical of the Pimax as a company and I thought "yeah I agree with you there".

Edited May 27, 2021 by ICDP

[DBCOOPER011]

My index works great for me, but I have been waiting to purchase a higher resolution headset for some time. HP-G2 now or wait for the VP2? The main negatives for both I am reading about is this small sweet spot and smaller FOV. Any information is appreciated..

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

My index works great for me, but I have been waiting to purchase a higher resolution headset for some time. HP-G2 now or wait for the VP2? The main negatives for both I am reading about is this small sweet spot and smaller FOV. Any information is appreciated..

 

Imho the Reverb G2 is gorgeous in flight sims. I have it along with the Index.

I use the G2 for flight sims, and the Index for made for VR games that utilize the controllers.

I tried the Index with flight sims and for me the cockpit clarity was just not there like it is with the Reverb G2.

 

Of course we don't know yet but going by specs the Vive Pro 2 should be better. Plus if you already have the base stations with your Index then it is kind of a no brainer I would think. It "should" be better than Reverb G2, however the proof will be in the pudding when average users have it in their hands. I know I have one on pre-order.

 

Horizontal FOV in VP2 should be better than Reverb G2, more in line with the Index FOV maybe little better. Having said that the smaller FOV in Reverb G2 does not really bother me, I would trade that for image sharpness anytime.

Edited May 27, 2021 by dburne

[AuburnAlumni]

5 minutes ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

My index works great for me, but I have been waiting to purchase a higher resolution headset for some time. HP-G2 now or wait for the VP2? The main negatives for both I am reading about is this small sweet spot and smaller FOV. Any information is appreciated..

i love the G2.  I think the sweet spot is just fine myself.  It’s incredibly comfortable and I’m in love with the off ear audio as well (which you have on your index).

 

I fully endorse the G2, especially for flight sims and racing 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

4 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

My index works great for me, but I have been waiting to purchase a higher resolution headset for some time. HP-G2 now or wait for the VP2? The main negatives for both I am reading about is this small sweet spot and smaller FOV. Any information is appreciated..

Cooper , we don't know yet. Ignore the Voodoo review, Edit: He replied on Reddit. He used the false mode in Vive UI and upsampled from 1224x1224 which is a performance mode for Vives and hits the peripheral view's sharpness first - hence the tiny sweetspot (for him sweetspot = clarity). 
*Waves to Chili  

People pointed out his mistakes and he started fighting with them. 

He replied on another occasion as well regarding how he calculated HFOV. It's false. He took one eye, read out the value, and assumed it was the same for the total of both. It means he assumed that the center of the HFOV would be half of the FOV, which it is not, as the center of 98° is not 49° to both sides. You can have 40° to the nose and 58° to the sides. 

The guy is using the buggy ROV software version he used for the G2 as well. The bug was fixed in a newer iteration, exactly 20° were missing. He also messed up the resolution. And he just posted a video that his VP2 was broken and he'd need to send it back.

 

Other tests indicate the VP2 has a larger HFOV than the Index and G2. The difference between G2 and Index also isn't as much as some people would like to believe. So, just wait. Don't cancel your pre-order unless you'd want to bite yourself over it later...

Edited May 27, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Guest deleted@134347]

<--- secretly hoping someone would try the GearVR lens mod on VP2  ?

[DBCOOPER011]

Thanks for the insight. Probably best to wait a bit and see what other people have to say..

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/nlzv9a/htc_vive_pro_2_hands_on_review_by_voodoo_de/

Reddit is exploding into his face now. Twitter too.

 

He replied and it was indeed that he upsampled the resolution from Vive 1 values using "performance" setting in Vive UI, which is why he got the small sweetspot.

He replied again and it seems he also miscalculated the HFOV too.

 

The German community is oblivious, posts of people trying to point out the shitstorm on English Reddit are deleted on the German YouTube comment section as quick as they appear.

 

[SCG_Euto]

Didn't this voodoo guy even break his Vive 2 and can't even do the tests properly now?

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

12 hours ago, SCG_Euto said:

Didn't this voodoo guy even break his Vive 2 and can't even do the tests properly now?

 

He effed up the G2's tests as well, which led to a lot of false narratives and cancellations especially in the German community. 74° HFOV is one example, and "a Stecknadel-Sweetspot".

 

G2 may have problems for a tiny percentage of people, but not to the extend he described.

Edited May 28, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[chiliwili69]

39 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

He replied and it was indeed that he upsampled the resolution from Vive 1 values using "performance" setting in Vive UI

 

At least we know this fact from the VOODOO review: The VP2 has several resolution modes:

 

 

I am trying to understand what are the corresponding pixels values for each one in SteamVR with 100%SS.

 

I understand that this resolution modes should not affect the FOV, but who knows.

But they could affect the Edge-to-edge clarity (sweetspot). VOODOO said that the Edge-to-Edge clarity was good in the G2, but for me the edge-to edge clarity in the G2 was bad compared with Index. So, it seems to be dependent on the eyeball geometry?

 

BTW, the ROV guys had a tool to measure sweetspot: https://www.reddit.com/r/HPReverb/comments/kb59vk/new_tool_lenstoolrov_compare_sweet_spots_with/

 

Let´s see other reviews

Here another review (not giving many specific details about FOV or Sweetspot, perhaps VOODOO is wrong but I prefer the VOODOO style, going to the critic point not written in the specs):

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by chiliwili69

[chiliwili69]

I think this is a better straight to the point review, he said the vertical FOV is lower than Index but don´t give value. Also he say there is glare/god rays.

The important thing here is that he say that the sweetspot is pretty small compared with Index. OMG!! Two bad reviews right now.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by chiliwili69

[Guest deleted@134347]

no support for SteamVR motion smoothing?  wat... ?    I thought if it's in SteamVR ecosystem then it integrates all its capabilities.. I guess that was a wrong assumption on my part.

[chiliwili69]

Using the Ultra or Extreme modes the pixels for different SteamVR %SS are:

 

 

So, running the VP2 at 100% it is almost the same than running the G2 at 100%. Or equivalent to running the Index at 212%SS.

 

One thing I don´t like from VP2 is that you have to run this third party VIVE console (like the Pitools of Pimax, but probably less buggy). In previous HTC Vive Pro you didn´t have that.

 

One beauty of the Index is that you only need SteamVR running. It is quite simple and straightforward.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

1 hour ago, 30speed said:

no support for SteamVR motion smoothing?  wat... ?    I thought if it's in SteamVR ecosystem then it integrates all its capabilities.. I guess that was a wrong assumption on my part.

It does. He might have been using SteamVR beta, which is undergoing UI changes.

 

The reviewers these days... Jesus 

55 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

One thing I don´t like from VP2 is that you have to run this third party VIVE console (like the Pitools of Pimax, but probably less buggy). In previous HTC Vive Pro you didn´t have that.

Totally agree. The less weird stacks, the better. It seems it replaces some of SteamVR's functionality. Why? 

OpenXR compatibility? Valve not updating their software in time? The changes lately that removed motion smoothing (see Oasis' Video on removal of motion smoothing, it's been the same for WMR and only for fixed yesterday!).

[dburne]

Anyone's vertical FOV is likely going to be lower than Index. The Index vertical FOV is a bit much imho.

For flight sim cockpit clarity I much prefer my Reverb G2 over the Index. I am sure hoping the VP2 will replace them both for me.

Love the fact it will use my Lighthouse 2.0 tracking system, as I do enjoy made for VR games that utilize the controllers.

 

Little concerned about it not using Steam VR Motion Smoothing if that is true. I like to crank my graphics up and run with it on and forced to 45 fps. in the G2. Steam VR does pretty good job with that.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

You mean what Oasis said? It's not true.

[chiliwili69]

Despite we studied french at the school, I can not go beyond "Vou le vu danse avec moi?" level.

I wish to know more and understand what he say about Sweet spot.

Those frenchs do well...

 

 

But the graphs are understandable:

 

 

 

 

The VFOV of the Index is really good. Practically cover all the vertical view and I like these very much. It is a pitty that the VP2 is a the lowest level.

7 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

You mean what Oasis said? It's not true

 

Listen at minute 5:00

 

I was going to cancel my pre-order because:

 

- Bad Sweet spot (questionable, in the G2 I saw it but other people don´t). I am particularly sensitivy to small sweetspot.

- Less VFOV than Index (all reviews agree on that)

- Not able to run at 80Hz (Nothing we can do about that)

- Additional Vive software in between.

- worse sound than Index

- Still I need to know if I need controllers to do the setup and if it runs with just one basestation.

- I am lazy to try all these to finally deliver it back.

 

Honestly I really don´t know if I should cancel the pre-order or not. I just don´t want to waste my time to know that all those reviewers are unconsciously lying.

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by chiliwili69

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hmmm yeah tough choice. Maybe this helps you to find a decision:

 

Well, VoodooDE posted this:
 

Spoiler

KLARSTELLUNG: Folgende Einstellungen wurden für die Tests benutzt:
Through-The-Lens-Bilder und FOV-Test: Vive Console "High" (3672x1836,  90Hz) und SteamVR auf 150% (Standard-Setting). Die Modi "Ultra" und "Extreme" waren nicht auswählbar, da stürzt der Compositor ab. Benchmark-Test:  Vive Console "Choose auto setting" und SteamVR auf "100%".
ACHTUNG: Meine Vive Pro 2 ist bereits defekt: https://youtu.be/yY1FesQp6iM
Zusätzlicher FOV Beweis: Vive Pro 2, gemessen an der tatsächlich gerenderten Szene (mit den Augen noch kleiner):
OpenVR Benchmark: HFOV: 97.921982  VFOV: 96.281494

So he used a render resolution of 2x1836x1836 for through-the-lens, because his compositor would crash otherwise (means he has not installed latest Nvidia drivers). The distortion profile in the periphery gets hit heavily first from running at half the required resolution. That fully explains his small sweetspot/clarity experienced.

So he measured HFOV by simply reading out the single-eye HFOV value. OpenVR Benchmark gives that. Which explains why he miscalculated HFOV, it should be indeed 117° like MRTV posted.

 

What to do? You can either keep your pre-order and keep the discount and test yourself, or wait for my review. I'll also test it, write about it here, and will measure proper FOV values with standard foam, 6mm VRCover foam, mention risa2000's readout for completionist's sake, and see how the audio is (and how it can improved via settings if need-be). I'll also check the Motion Smoothing, as I rely on it - I want to run IL-2 at extreme resolution and 120Hz (60 true fps).

[ICDP]

If your HMD is not arriving anytime soon then will it hurt to wait for more reviews?  After seeing Voodoo's review I was close to cancelling but I thought wait for more confirmation.

 

In order of importance for me in a VR HMD.

FOV

Clarity

Black levels

Colours

Comfort

 

I tested my 8KX at 120 HFOV mode and it was just about enough for me to call it acceptable.  So if VP2 matches that in HFOV but improves clarity, colours and black levels are improved I will be happy overall.

Edited May 28, 2021 by ICDP

[firdimigdi]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

I wish to know more and understand what he say about Sweet spot.

 

The french guy isn't terribly impressed and VoodooDE had not so good things to say about it (around 28:30):

 

It seems to be an issue that falls again in the gray area of depending on the user's anatomy and their mental state (i.e. what their brain is willing to put up with) - there's no way to get a perfect one-size-fits-all symmetric industrial design done for human heads/faces, these things require at least 3 degrees of asymmetric adjustment otherwise you'll have people who will experience what he describes. Especially for higher FOV lenses IMO there needs to be assymetric IPD, lens depth and yaw so everyone can get it dialed in properly.

Edited May 28, 2021 by 335th_GRFirdimigdi

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Well, no, it's not anatomy, but false measurement: I point out again that he didn't measure FOV correctly. 

 

He used OpenVR Benchmark and read out one (!) eye. Then claimed it was both eyes, because "it would not matter unless the screens were canted". That's false. 

 

 

 

He said that himself on Twitter. People pointed it out, but Voodoo's been busy deleting critical comments from his YT feed, so you can't see it. I got banned as well, confirmed 100%. 

[firdimigdi]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Well, no, it's not anatomy, but false measurement: I point out again that he didn't measure FOV correctly. 

 

He used OpenVR Benchmark and read out one (!) eye. Then claimed it was both eyes, because "it would not matter unless the screens were canted". That's false. 

 

 

 

He said that himself on Twitter. People pointed it out, but Voodoo's been busy deleting critical comments from his YT feed, so you can't see it. I got banned as well, confirmed 100%. 

I'm referring to the sweetspot issue he mentions which is what chilliwilli was asking about. But yes his HFOV measurement seemed off.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

30 minutes ago, 335th_GRFirdimigdi said:

I'm referring to the sweetspot issue he mentions which is what chilliwilli was asking about. But yes his HFOV measurement seemed off.

You mean clarity issue, which Voodoo called sweetspot.

It was caused by him playing at half resolution. Source, also himself.

He said the full resolution settings would crash in Vive Console. Which happens if you don't use the latest Nvidia drivers, as they introduced DSC with the latest update.

 

Running not the full resolution in the compositor hits the distortion profile harder in the periphery. There have been nice findings by a guy called risa2000 on this, and VR HMD Engineers' direct information from HP on this. 

 

Ergo: undersampling nerfs clarity* across the lens, harder in the periphery.

 

*Voodoo calls clarity "sweetspot".

 

 

With this information, you can draw your own conclusions on the quality and precision of Voodoo's content.

 

Edit: SteamVR's Motion Smoothing is supported.. That information that said there was none was wrong too.

Source

Edited May 29, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[firdimigdi]

MRTV's jolly fellow seems to have a completely differrent take the two previous reviewers:

https://mrtv.co/2021/05/vive-pro-2-review/

 

Hopefully Fenris has further amusing anecdotes about being banned by him as well.

 

[Gomoto]

Now they just have to release a simulator set with the HMD, two lighthouses and no controllers. Then I will be interested after reading the MRTV review.

But I will wait for the IL2 user reviews in any case.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

8 hours ago, 335th_GRFirdimigdi said:

MRTV's jolly fellow seems to have a completely differrent take the two previous reviewers:

https://mrtv.co/2021/05/vive-pro-2-review/

 

Hopefully Fenris has further amusing anecdotes about being banned by him as well.

 

I tore him a new one as I couldn't believe the G2 had better sharpness, wider stretching edge-to-edge clarity and better colours and blacks than the Pimax 8KX. I was shocked when I had the G2 on the nose, and unfortunately he had not banned me. Guilt-ridden with a heavy heart I walked through a garden of roses barefoot with a whip to my own back slashing away at my own demons, until I came out purified, admitted mea culpa and moved on. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

On 5/29/2021 at 7:20 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

You mean clarity issue, which Voodoo called sweetspot.

It was caused by him playing at half resolution. Source, also himself.

He said the full resolution settings would crash in Vive Console. Which happens if you don't use the latest Nvidia drivers, as they introduced DSC with the latest update.

 

Running not the full resolution in the compositor hits the distortion profile harder in the periphery. There have been nice findings by a guy called risa2000 on this, and VR HMD Engineers' direct information from HP on this. 

 

Ergo: undersampling nerfs clarity* across the lens, harder in the periphery.

 

*Voodoo calls clarity "sweetspot".

 

 

With this information, you can draw your own conclusions on the quality and precision of Voodoo's content.

 

Edit: SteamVR's Motion Smoothing is supported.. That information that said there was none was wrong too.

Source

 

Very good to see that Steam VR Motion Smoothing is supported.

So hopefully I will get the same good results as I get with my G2 with it on and forced to 45 fps.

[ICDP]

RoadtoVR not happy with the VP2.

1. Poor sweetspot
2. Lower clarity than a G2
3. Lower FoV than an Index
4. Microphone is bad
5. Audio is good but microphone is poor

https://www.roadtovr.com/htc-vive-pro-2-review/