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Varjo VR-3 unboxing, first impressions and review.


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Good day VR nation!

 

My Varjo VR-3 is being delivered today! How exciting is that!? I have been waiting 4 1/2 months for it. 

 

Today I will be shooting my unboxing video and will post it here once it has been edited. I'm starting a YouTube channel and will post all my videos of the VR-3 there. I have decided to call it "The VR Canuck" as I am a proud Canadian eh!;) Don't look for the channel yet as I have not created it as of April 28th. I hope to have it up soon.

 

I will be posting other stuff to my channel in the future that will include through the lens videos and/or pictures of my favorite games. And of course that includes IL-2.

 

Picard out!

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Love to. But my supplier neglected to give me my subscription key. So I'm all dressed-up and nowhere to go.

 

I can tell you the materials on the headset are top notch. It's also very comfortable. But I only had it on for 2 mins. Won't work without the key.

 

It's heavier than my HP Reverb G1 as expected. But it seems to be much more comfortable due to the unique headband. 

 

The cables are nice and flexible. It uses 2 display ports and 2 USB ports. It has 2 power bricks that power the headset through some connection boxes. The headset uses 2 USB-C cables that plug to those connection boxes. 

 

All in all my first impressions are good. Now if I can only get that key and start playing with this thing.  lol

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On 4/28/2021 at 11:14 PM, US213_Picard said:

It's heavier than my HP Reverb G1 as expected.

 

As shown here G1 is 540 grams, and Index is 792 grams. You also have an Index. Is it heavier than Index?

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Yes it is. But the headband is so comfortable I don't even notice it. I tried on my Index again last night and man it feels heavy in comparison.

 

BTW, I got my key and ran the headset yesterday. The clarity is AMAZING! The sweet spot is nice and big and easy to adjust with the headband. The auto IPD adjustment is really slick. The hand tracking is really good. More to come.

 

Also, I had to get me a new RTX 3080. The 2080ti just couldn't cope. Surprising really. So I created a support ticket with Varjo. They were very quick at getting back to me. Asked me to use the Varjo Base app to capture some data and also asked me for my specs. Waiting on them to get back to me in case something is very wrong with my rig. 

 

I was running FPS VR and my GPU was showing a sea of red in the graph. About 30 FPS with everything on low. So not good. The 3080 should fix that. It's being delivered today. So more to come.

 

I also have a ticket with Varjo on what seems like distortions where the focus display meets the peripheral display. My Varjo contact swears to me I should not be able to see it. But it's there. When I look straight down on to the floor, I see a raised surface for the entire focus display portion of the image. So there is distortion for sure. Also, the colors of the OLED (focus display) and the LCD (peripheral display) don't match. Say I look at pure white, the LCD is white but the OLED is off white, almost grey. Like there is a shadow there. So I reported that to Varjo.

 

I will keep posting more first impressions.

 

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Posted (edited)

Ok, so with the 3080 at stock speed I'm getting 30 FPS in IL-2. I ran a shooter that rimes with helix and it ran 90 FPS with everything on highest settings. I did this to get kind of a base line. So there is something fishy going on here. I will test other flight sims to see how they fair. Remind me, are we even allowed to name other games on this forum?

 

I did some preliminary tests on FoV. Disappointing. 98 horizontal and 76 vertical. I removed the face gasket and got a a couple degrees extra with my eye lashes touching the lenses. So nowhere near the advertised 115 horizontal FoV. But I will test it again and compare what my numbers are on the Index. I have never measured those on the Index before. I have a narrow face and an IPD of 62 mm. So I should have gotten better numbers I think. It will be interesting to try the Index again tomorrow to see how it FEELS.

 

No news from Varjo on the distortion and shadow like area for the focus displays. If that can't be fixed I will probably return the headset as they are majors immersion killers.

 

Stay tuned, as I will run the VR-3 through its paces this weekend.

 

Picard out!

 

Edited by US213_Picard
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8 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

so with the 3080 at stock speed I'm getting 30 FPS in IL-2

 

That´s weird. I think you could just run the SYN_VANDER benchmark (CPU test, GPU test and VR with Index) just to be sure there are not other issues. And then run the VR test with the Varjo.

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7 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

That´s weird. I think you could just run the SYN_VANDER benchmark (CPU test, GPU test and VR with Index) just to be sure there are not other issues. And then run the VR test with the Varjo.

Good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.

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Ran the SYN_VANDER tests and got the below. Also ran Passmark and my rig scored in the 93% percentile. All numbers in Passmark look appropriate for what I have.

 

1080p test.

Frames: 5293 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 88.217 - Min: 78 - Max: 124

 

VR Test1.

Frames: 4150 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 69.167 - Min: 57 - Max: 81

 

VR Test2.
Frames: 4102 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 68.367 - Min: 57 - Max: 81

 

I will now run the test with the VR-3

 

Picard Out!

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, TX-Zigrat said:

Have you tried DCS? 

Not yet. On my list for today.

So I tried the SYN_VANDER test with the VR-3. Pretty good numbers I think. All I changed was the Steam VR %SS.

 

To match the VR Test 2, I ran the test with 60% 3172 x 3172. As close as I could get to the 19.5 Million pixels.

Frames: 3246 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 54.100 - Min: 44 - Max: 69

 

Interesting since I got this when I ran with the Index. The VR-3 software must be less efficient or has a bunch of extra features that drag down performance.

Frames: 4102 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 68.367 - Min: 57 - Max: 81

 

Then I ran 100% 4096 x 4096.

Frames: 3017 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 50.283 - Min: 42 - Max: 57

 

I can work with that. 

 

ok, ran DCS with the VR graphics, stock, without any changes. Getting about 30 FPS on average just doing the free flight mission in the A10. Will need to do something similar to IL2 as far as tweaking. Will probably need to OC my 3080 as well.

 

That cockpit looks stunning! The details are just so sharp. I can read everything as if I was in the actual cockpit.

 

I would appreciate it if someone were to analyze all the data I have presented so far. Some of you guys are a lot better at this than I am.

 

Stay tuned.

Picard out!

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I just ran the FoV tests with the Index so you can compare the VR-3 and Index based on my face shape, IPD and whatever else affects FoV.

 

Index = 94 vertical and 106 horizontal

 

VR-3 = 76 vertical and 98 horizontal

 

I have no idea where Varjo got their advertised 115 horizontal FoV. I wonder if they meant 115 diagonal horizontal FoV.

 

Picard out!

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Played a little more Half Life Alyx tonight. I must say, her gloves look absolutely amazing. If I had to describe how clear they look, I would say that they look REAL. The jump in clarity for the VR-3 is like the jump from low definition TV to high definition TV. Like 1080p level of clarity. Almost like 4K TV. It's that clear. The DCS A-10 cockpit looked that way. It's so clear it looks real.

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13 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

1080p test.

Frames: 5293 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 88.217 - Min: 78 - Max: 124

 

VR Test1.

Frames: 4150 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 69.167 - Min: 57 - Max: 81

 

VR Test2.
Frames: 4102 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 68.367 - Min: 57 - Max: 8

 

These number are quite aligned with what it is expected. I don´t know exactly if you apply overclock or just default Turboboost, and also what is you memory speed. They both (OC, and RAM speed) plays a role in the performance for monitor and VR.

 

Firstly, I noticed that your max fps is 81 in both VR TEsts, Did you change the frequency of the Index to 90 instead of 80Hz?

 

In the VRTest1 you reach the CPU bottleneck, and the GPU it is far from being fully loaded. This is VRTest1 is designed to know how good it is a CPU for VR (assuming GPU is good enough to not being the limiting factor). For example, me or other people with the 5600X CPU and a 3080 are reaching 77fps in this VRTest1.

 

In the VR Test1 you might be hitting the CPU limit as well and perhaps also the GPU limit.

 

In any case they are reference for the Varjo tests.

 

 

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13 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

To match the VR Test 2, I ran the test with 60% 3172 x 3172. As close as I could get to the 19.5 Million pixels.

 

I tried to guess how the Varjo XR-3 manage the SS ratio.

Since the device uses two independent panels in each eye Center:1920x1920, Frame: 2880x2720, the true total number of physical pixels are 2*1920*1920+2*2880*2720, which is 23Million pixels! More than double the physical pixels of the G2!

 

I have built my own calculation table for every VR device and the SteamVR SS ratios, The tab is called "SS per device" in the same table of the benchmark. For the Varjo it would be:

varjoxr3.thumb.png.1ec7fc4e67f62b3e6c9b79a8cfea9513.png

 

To perform the VRtest1 you should use 28% SS, and for the VRTest2 the closest number is 58%.

 

At 100% SS you have the 33.5 Million pixels! That´s a huge number for any GPU card.

 

But I don´t know how internally the SS value is applied to each panel, if it is proportional or if every panel has an individual internal multiplier of the SteamVR SS.

14 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

To match the VR Test 2, I ran the test with 60% 3172 x 3172. As close as I could get to the 19.5 Million pixels.

Frames: 3246 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 54.100 - Min: 44 - Max: 69

 

Interesting since I got this when I ran with the Index. The VR-3 software must be less efficient or has a bunch of extra features that drag down performance.

Frames: 4102 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 68.367 - Min: 57 - Max: 81

 

Here I would double check that the Index VRtests are done at 90 at not 80. If the Index VR tests were done really at 90Hz, then as you said, the Varjo software is doing some extra processing which is loading either the CPU or GPU or both (since it has two screens per eye it could be expected some extra load). If you run the VRtest1 with the Varjo, then we could analyze it better.

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14 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

Then I ran 100% 4096 x 4096.

Frames: 3017 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 50.283 - Min: 42 - Max: 57

 

You said you had 30FPS with IL-2 VR with the varjo, I assume this was using your preferred settings.

The VRTest settings (High presets and all set to Off or Low) are thought to just see a heavy (dense scene) base case with no options marked. Here you had 50fps with 33.5 million pixels which is a good number. From here, for every graphic option you mark (shadows, mirror, etc)  you will penalize your 50fps.

 

So I think that you should carefully select what graphics options you want to mantain. For example, complex mirrors has a big penalty on CPU., etc.

 

It would also help a better CPU. Considering the cost of the Varjo, it might be also worth to go to the top CPUs (5900X or 5950X). But I am not sure about the gain since with the 33.5 Million pixels your GPU will be always bottlenecked. So perhaps use a lower SS ratio than 100%.

 

In order to determine if a 5900X or 5950X CPU would help, anyone with that CPU (and also a 3080 or 3090) could run the VRTest with 33.5 million pixels?

For the G2 it is 170%SS and for the Index it is 370%SS.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

You said you had 30FPS with IL-2 VR with the varjo, I assume this was using your preferred settings.

The VRTest settings (High presets and all set to Off or Low) are thought to just see a heavy (dense scene) base case with no options marked. Here you had 50fps with 33.5 million pixels which is a good number. From here, for every graphic option you mark (shadows, mirror, etc)  you will penalize your 50fps.

 

So I think that you should carefully select what graphics options you want to mantain. For example, complex mirrors has a big penalty on CPU., etc.

 

It would also help a better CPU. Considering the cost of the Varjo, it might be also worth to go to the top CPUs (5900X or 5950X). But I am not sure about the gain since with the 33.5 Million pixels your GPU will be always bottlenecked. So perhaps use a lower SS ratio than 100%.

 

In order to determine if a 5900X or 5950X CPU would help, anyone with that CPU (and also a 3080 or 3090) could run the VRTest with 33.5 million pixels?

For the G2 it is 170%SS and for the Index it is 370%SS.

I think the Ryzen 7 5800X would be plenty. It's 5th on the Passmark list. A lot cheaper too. The misses is getting a little impatient with me.  lol

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curious how the two displays scale in SteamVR games like IL2. Is you turn down steamVR supersampling settings to something like 0.6 can you get much better FPS and still have the center much sharper?

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9 minutes ago, TX-Zigrat said:

curious how the two displays scale in SteamVR games like IL2. Is you turn down steamVR supersampling settings to something like 0.6 can you get much better FPS and still have the center much sharper?

I did play with that a bit this weekend. Yes, if I turn it down I get better performance. And to be honest, I don't need to run things at 100% to get great benefits from the headset. I mean where I was seeing blotches of dark colors that showed where aircraft were, when seeing them from very far, now I see well defined aircraft.

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Ordered a Ryzen 7 5800x and an Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming mobo. That should take care of any issues with the CPU limiting my 3080 perf.

 

I have to squeeze as much as I can out of that 3080! ;)

 

Picard out!

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/2/2021 at 3:06 AM, chiliwili69 said:

 

You said you had 30FPS with IL-2 VR with the varjo, I assume this was using your preferred settings.

The VRTest settings (High presets and all set to Off or Low) are thought to just see a heavy (dense scene) base case with no options marked. Here you had 50fps with 33.5 million pixels which is a good number. From here, for every graphic option you mark (shadows, mirror, etc)  you will penalize your 50fps.

 

So I think that you should carefully select what graphics options you want to mantain. For example, complex mirrors has a big penalty on CPU., etc.

 

It would also help a better CPU. Considering the cost of the Varjo, it might be also worth to go to the top CPUs (5900X or 5950X). But I am not sure about the gain since with the 33.5 Million pixels your GPU will be always bottlenecked. So perhaps use a lower SS ratio than 100%.

 

In order to determine if a 5900X or 5950X CPU would help, anyone with that CPU (and also a 3080 or 3090) could run the VRTest with 33.5 million pixels?

For the G2 it is 170%SS and for the Index it is 370%SS.

 

I did the VR test on my index at 370SS with my 5800X/3090 at 90Mhz. Below is what I got. I did it with all reprojection off, except 1 test I left motion smoothing on and got a lower score, strange.

 

Motion smoothing on
Frames: 5032 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 83.867 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

Motion smoothing off
Frames: 5194 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 86.567 - Min: 74 - Max: 92

 

Edited by DBCOOPER011
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24 minutes ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

I did the VR test on my index at 370SS with my 5800X/3090 at 90Mhz. Below is what I got. I did it with all reprojection off, except 1 test I left motion smoothing on and got a lower score, strange.

 

Motion smoothing on
Frames: 5032 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 83.867 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

Motion smoothing off
Frames: 5194 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 86.567 - Min: 74 - Max: 92

 

Thanks for sharing. Wish I had a 3090. :(

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1 hour ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

 

I did the VR test on my index at 370SS with my 5800X/3090 at 90Mhz. Below is what I got. I did it with all reprojection off, except 1 test I left motion smoothing on and got a lower score, strange.

 

Motion smoothing on
Frames: 5032 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 83.867 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

Motion smoothing off
Frames: 5194 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 86.567 - Min: 74 - Max: 92

 

 

With 370 percent SS that is absolutely incredible. Especially with the larger image being projected into the Index.

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1 hour ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Motion smoothing on
Frames: 5032 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 83.867 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

Motion smoothing off
Frames: 5194 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 86.567 - Min: 74 - Max: 92

 

Thanks for this. The reason for having less when MotionSmoothing is ON is simple. Think that when MS is ON, the fps are just 45 or 90, whereas when MS is OFF the fps is just X or 90, being X a value between 74 and 90 (according to your Min value).

 

In any case, I was not expecting this high values with 370SS. With 19.5Million pixels you had 89.1 Avg fps, and now with 33.5 Million pixels you have 86.5 fps. ONLY 2.5 fps less!!!. It means the 3090 is a beast!

 

Just cheking the test procedure: I assume to wait for all building to be loaded and you mantain the vision of the headset straight ahead without moving it during the 1 minute test, right?

Let´s see if any other people with a 3090 and Index can run this 33.5million test for double check.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Thanks for this. The reason for having less when MotionSmoothing is ON is simple. Think that when MS is ON, the fps are just 45 or 90, whereas when MS is OFF the fps is just X or 90, being X a value between 74 and 90 (according to your Min value).

 

In any case, I was not expecting this high values with 370SS. With 19.5Million pixels you had 89.1 Avg fps, and now with 33.5 Million pixels you have 86.5 fps. ONLY 2.5 fps less!!!. It means the 3090 is a beast!

 

Just cheking the test procedure: I assume to wait for all building to be loaded and you mantain the vision of the headset straight ahead without moving it during the 1 minute test, right?

Let´s see if any other people with a 3090 and Index can run this 33.5million test for double check.

I would love to see what the results are with 3080s as well.

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3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Thanks for this. The reason for having less when MotionSmoothing is ON is simple. Think that when MS is ON, the fps are just 45 or 90, whereas when MS is OFF the fps is just X or 90, being X a value between 74 and 90 (according to your Min value).

 

In any case, I was not expecting this high values with 370SS. With 19.5Million pixels you had 89.1 Avg fps, and now with 33.5 Million pixels you have 86.5 fps. ONLY 2.5 fps less!!!. It means the 3090 is a beast!

 

Just cheking the test procedure: I assume to wait for all building to be loaded and you mantain the vision of the headset straight ahead without moving it during the 1 minute test, right?

Let´s see if any other people with a 3090 and Index can run this 33.5million test for double check.

 

Yes, I waited about 30 seconds for it to load and kept my head as still as possible. I did the test another time just to make sure and got a lower result. Below are screen shots and the fpsvr report just in case I'm doing it wrong.

 

2021-05-03 13:56:36 - Il-2
Frames: 4781 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 79.683 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

 

fpsVR Report:
App: Il-2 HMD: Index (90.000 Hz, IPD 62.7)
GPU: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 (27.21.14.6627) CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 8-Core Processor             
Delivered fps: 84.67  Duration: 6.3min. Headset was active: 33%
GPU Frametimes:
Median: 6.7 ms
99th percentile: 13.5 ms
99.9th percentile: 23.5 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 88.8%
CPU frametime:
Median: 1.4 ms
99th percentile: 20.4 ms
99.9th percentile: >30 ms
frametime <11.1ms(vsync): 87.7%
Reprojection Ratio: 10.1% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Dropped frames: 26 or 0.1% (for Index/Vive/VivePro headsets only)
Max. SteamVR SS: 370%
Render resolution per eye: 3876x4308(by SteamVR settings, Max.) (HMD driver recommended: 2016x2240)

 

 

1951146726_GPUCPUIl-2Index5_3_20211_38_13PM.thumb.png.dabbdccddc210b35a384698c81650552.png

 

1.PNG.d75792903d19d7ff0a3ed70560287182.PNG2.PNG.276e259d4513595b2ecf9684f87c7429.PNG

 

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18 hours ago, US213_Picard said:

I would love to see what the results are with 3080s as well.

 

I made teh test with my system (5600X, 3080, Index) and the results are:

 

VRTest1, Index with 106 SS% = 9.5 Million pixels
Frames: 5339 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 88.983 - Min: 82 - Max: 92
Frames: 5296 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 88.267 - Min: 80 - Max: 92

VRTest2, Index with 206 SS% = 18.6 Million pixels  (Here I made an mistake, I did it with 206% and it should be 216% according to instructions)
Frames: 5249 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 87.483 - Min: 78 - Max: 92
Frames: 5204 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 86.733 - Min: 75 - Max: 92

VRtest for VARJO numbers, Index with 370 SS%= 33.5Million pixels
Frames: 3035 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 50.583 - Min: 43 - Max: 85
Frames: 3705 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 61.750 - Min: 42 - Max: 86

 

Here I obtained different results, probably due to the default OC of GPU which is based on temperature. Or perhaps other influences of the Mobo, RAM, CPU, PCIe bus, etc.

 

This confirm that the 3090 is a beast. And also that a 3080 can manage 18.6 Million pixels (with the Index) relatively well with Low clouds & no MSAA options (These are the two options that greatly load GPU).

14 hours ago, DBCOOPER011 said:

Below are screen shots and the fpsvr report just in case I'm doing it wrong.

 

2021-05-03 13:56:36 - Il-2
Frames: 4781 - Time: 60000ms - Avg: 79.683 - Min: 43 - Max: 91

 

Yes, all seems OK. Definetely the 3090 is a monster card.

 

Since you use the Index with that GPU you can easily then play with 180%SS, high clouds and MSAAx2 (orx4). The MSAA is nice but expensive GPU wise in high resolutions. Look here.

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is it possible to independently vary the resolution of the small center display and the outer?

does anything take advantage of foveated rendering yet?

Any progress on fixing of the earlier issues you reported to Varjo?

 

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As far as I know you cannot change the resolution on each display. Only globally.

I asked the question about foveated rendering and I got no answer. Was planning to ask again.

There is supposed to be a patch coming out early next week that should fix my distortion and color matching issues. Fingers crossed.

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Well boys, I'm returning the VR-3. I have multiple issues with it. There is distortion where the focus display meets the peripheral display. The color doesn't match 100% between the focus and peripheral displays. They released a patch the improved it a lot but it's still there. My rig can't run that headset with the graphics settings I like in IL-2. All I get is 40 FPS and I also get stutters. The tracking is an issue as it's only tracked in the front. Varjo suggested I get 4 X 2.0 tracking stations to fix that. Ouch! The FoV of 80 degrees vertical is an issue when flying because looking down at instruments is a big issue. You really have to crank your head down. The horizontal FoV is not 115 degrees horizontal. I think that is the diagonal horizontal FoV. That wasn't very clear on their marketing materials. The Index beats it for FoV big time.

 

Last night I was flying and I started having another issue. Probably due to the new patch. I was getting a ghost image on the focus display. And that ghost image would not disappear until I restarted IL2. It happened 7 or 8 times. Stopped counting after a while.

 

Some other minor issues are also cropping up. I use NeckSafer for checking 6. It doesn't work with the VR-3. It drops you 5 to 6 feet below the cockpit when you use it. Completely outside the plane you are flying. When re-centering the image, it goes away.

 

Anyway, lots of issues and I just don't have time to screw around with a product that I don't think is ready for prime time. If anything, I think it is really meant for enterprise use as it would require lots of time to make it work with apps not really meant for it.

 

Picard out!

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30 minutes ago, US213_Picard said:

I think it is really meant for enterprise use as it would require lots of time to make it work with apps not really meant for it.

 

Based on the list of issues you had this is the enterprise use-case I can think of:

 

1. Buy

2. Include in the next newsletter that the company is so advanced they have the best in class VR headset and big plans with it

3. Put into a drawer and forget 

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