List of suggestions for bombers (from a bomber pilot's perspective)

[[DBS]TH0R]

Here is a list of "quality of life" suggestions for bombers, from a bomber pilot's perspective. These mostly come from the experience of flying close formation and primarily bombers over the course of the many years in this game. While they are focused on my own experience of flying formation with my group, they apply to the overall experience and would be beneficial to every bomber pilot out there. Listed based on the priority I would love to see them implemented:

 

1) AI gunners friendly fire:

Currently AI gunners in-game don't see friendly bombers flying close formation. This presents a problem, as flying next to a group of bombers should give you a better protection from mutual gunner coverage. Alas, it almost always ends up in friendly fire and occasional bomber getting shot down by the AI gunner of the one flying next to it. Thus I rate this the highest on my wish list - as it is more of a bug than a feature suggestion.

 

2) Manual control of gunner stations (cruise <> combat):

Depending on the bomber type, opening the hatch/canopy and manning the gunner station before the gunner is able to fire can cost valuable seconds if the attacking fighter is doing a head on pass, or if it wasn't spotted in time.

The suggestion here is to allow manual control (switching between) cruise-closed and combat-open gunner positions. Equivalent to the "T" command when operating the gunner position manually. It would give the gunners option to be on alert when expecting to be attacked, i.e. when approaching the front lines and reacting more quickly.

 

3) AI gunners calling out engaging plane's "O'Clock" (OC) position:

Currently gunners will only report when they start firing on an enemy plane who is attacking you. This isn't very useful as you can hear the guns going off at the same time. Instead, what would be more useful is knowing when the enemy plane is actually spotted, combined with it's OC position relative to your own plane.

The next useful info then, would be whether it is engaging you or not. This is only a presumption, but ideally this could be linked to the ALT+2 command (existing code) which tells the gunners to only fire at the engaging fighters vs. "fire at will" which is default.
"Enemy plane spotted at XX OC" and "Enemy plane engaging us from XX OC" are the two suggested call outs.

 

4) Notification when someone joins gunner station in MP:

Human gunners, if not on comms with the pilot, tend to "test fire" thus making you falsely believe a bomber is under attack. Worse still, 1 in 100 times a human joins only to fire at the bomber flying near by.

Having some kind of notification when a person joins one of your gunner stations (and preferably info which one is taken) would be super useful in MP.

 

5) Estimated plane position visible on the map - only for planes with navigators & radio operators:

Flying in formation, be it leading or flying wing position, is a demanding task on its own. In reality the bombers had a larger crew since the workload was greater. Doing all the things on your own in-game is unrealistically difficult and possibly a turn off for some who wish to fly bombers under full difficulty settings.

The idea here is to introduce a new in-game difficulty option that would allow bombers, or planes with dedicated navigator positions (like A-20 for the example), to have an "estimated map position" icon visible on the map even even when such option is turned off for the rest of the planes on the server side. The icon/position shouldn't be visible at all times (as in refreshed every second like it is with the "plane icon" option turned on), rather every few minutes or by request from the pilot with the time penalty afterwards.

I would not allow this to every plane with crew 2 or more, but for planes with dedicated radio and navigation stations coupled with the requirement of having 2 or more crew aboard.

 

6) Reversed bailout procedure (pilot last):

A pilot should be the last one to bail out and keeping the plane as much as possible under control until the rest of the crew bails out. As it stands now, it is funny if not immersion breaking to see the pilot bail out first and witness the rest of the crew play a lottery game (altitude vs. G-forces).

 

7) Normal head movement when zoomed into the gun (SHIFT+T):

Currently when manning the gun position, when leaning to the gun with SHIFT+T command, viewing around you is unnecessarily slow and laggy when compared to the default position. I don't see a reason for this and would like it removed, or made the same as normal viewing around (TrackIR in my case).

 

8) AI crew giving useful info:

A follow up and further expanding the idea from suggestion no.3, is to have your crew give you useful info about the plane status. Not going overboard or doing anything crazy but simple callouts like "we're low on fuel", "no. 2 engine on fire", "we lost right aileron / left elevator" etc. would help tremendously with the feeling of flying with an actual crew rather than doing "one man army" when operating one of the available WWII bombers we have in-game now...

 

9) Option for AI historical formations and mission building:

Listed last because I barely do any (read none at all) Single Player, some day having larger scale historical multi element formations all acting as one group would be very useful thing to have in-game. Both for SP campaigns and MP missions.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R
point no.5 plane icon replaced for "estimated map position" icon

[Chief_Mouser]

Yes please. All of those. Plus the choice to have the bomb-aimer as a separate crew station from the pilot.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I agree with you, good post! 

Bombers definitely deserve more attention, they should be the main actors!

 

About the point 6: the pilot leave the aircraft first cause is the one considered for the player stats, so could have sense to add a "crew bail out" and "player bail out" command. 

[Ribbon]

Agee on all except navigation, i like navigation to be dependant on players skill, it would be valid if we have clickpit so pilots attention is needed there but for il2 scheme i find it uneccesary, let's keep pilot busy as much is possible!

 

First i'd like to see flyable B25 and other bombers with proper bomber cockpits and copilots.....and torpedo bombers as well!

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Agee on all except navigation, i like navigation to be dependant on players skill, it would be valid if we have clickpit so pilots attention is needed there but for il2 scheme i find it uneccesary, let's keep pilot busy as much is possible!

 

Sorry, but I find that to be just crazy. The point of a navigator is to let the pilot be the pilot and not a one-man band jumping around and trying to perform multiple roles at the same time.

[Ribbon]

23 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Sorry, but I find that to be just crazy. The point of a navigator is to let the pilot be the pilot and not a one-man band jumping around and trying to perform multiple roles at the same time.

It would be crazy if we have clickpits as i said above, or with 4 engine manegment.

But as it is now and with 2 engine bombers manegment i find navigation factor laying on pilot perfectly fine....quite underrated fun factor!

[[DBS]El_Marta]

I am with =VARP= Ribbon on this one. I also think navigation should not be taken away. Navigation was not easy back than and often the navigators failed. I would rather see the implementation of a more complex beacon system like in 1946 with switchable beacons or other contemporary radar technology like Oboe or Knickebein etc..  A perfectly located map icon would be just arcade like.

 

I would add staus info of armament as number of bombs left, selected and intervalometer settings being displayed albeit the server has the hud turned off as in TAW.

Edited April 18, 2021 by [DBS]El_Marta

[[DBS]TH0R]

No one is taking away navigation for you, you can still do it on your own if you so desire. For those who just skimmed through the suggestion no. 5:

 

a) it would be a difficulty option that each server can turn on and off

b) not all planes with 2 crew, e.g. like IL-2 with tail gunner (especially early one which is an optional loadout) would have it - only planes with separate navigator and radio station would

b) it wouldn't work as plane icon when the current system is on (I'll edit the post accordingly) but perhaps highlighting the grid and numpad you're in

c) it would feature the same limitations as manual navigation:

- if over solid cloud cover only an estimated grid or several grids could be highlighted

- there is a time penalty after each use, lets say 5 minutes

- no plane icon = no course shown, you have to work that one on your own

 

Bombers were multi crewed for a reason.

 

When flying alone manual navigation isn't a problem. It is however when doing it when in close formation as it is impossible do to at the same time as when leading an element or flying wing position. Which you should know @[DBS]El_Marta since you always drift away from formation when navigating.

 

I'd like to have the intervalometer too. But that is perhaps suited better for bombsight options / suggestions. This would be an upgrade for the current delay we have in-game.

Edited April 18, 2021 by [DBS]TH0R

[[DBS]Fusek]

All I want to say is that I really miss the radio commands to ask for vector to base.

[LukeFF]

53 minutes ago, [DBS]Fusek said:

All I want to say is that I really miss the radio commands to ask for vector to base.

 

Those were implemented in a highly unrealistic manner and so made proper navigation skills a joke. The only way I'd want to see them come back is in a way that reflects the technology of the time. 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

1 hour ago, [DBS]Fusek said:

All I want to say is that I really miss the radio commands to ask for vector to base.

 

Combat box has it in a really good way.

You have to tell to the command your grid, then they will tell you the vector to home

[357th_KW]

I could see having a navigator function (in appropriate aircraft of course, and available as a difficulty/server option) where you press a key and your navigator takes a few moments to read off a grid position, ground track and ground speed to you.  That would be much more realistic and immersive than a GPS moving map option.

[[CPT]Crunch]

On 4/18/2021 at 11:40 AM, =VARP=Ribbon said:

It would be crazy if we have clickpits as i said above, or with 4 engine manegment.

But as it is now and with 2 engine bombers manegment i find navigation factor laying on pilot perfectly fine....quite underrated fun factor!

Fine, but you better give them functional and historic nav equipment than, like the ADF's that are already in their aircraft but don't work correctly.

[354thFG_Leifr]

There may be a day when some tender loving care appears for the bomber aircraft in BoX, and for the bomber pilots who tolerate too much of the backwards design choices. These are some excellent suggestions @[DBS]TH0R, and I am in almost all of them. The only one I would rally against is number five; navigation is a learned skill and it takes practice, I would rather icons stay 'off' but that the appropriate tools and systems (map drawing tools, period-appropriate signal systems) are given to the players to use.

 

That said, I am suspect of any of this being acted on. The A-20 arrived with the navigator's position absent because there was nothing for the player to do. Who wants to twiddle around with protractors and mathematics when players can shoot guns? pew pew!!!

  

On 3/28/2021 at 8:18 PM, LukeFF said:

The A-20's bombardier position wasn't modeled, because there are no gun turrets located there. It's nothing to do with lack of thought. 

 

[356thFS_Melonfish]

1 minute ago, Leifr said:

There may be a day when some tender loving care appears for the bomber aircraft in BoX, and for the bomber pilots who tolerate too much of the backwards design choices. These are some excellent suggestions @[DBS]TH0R, and I am in almost all of them. The only one I would rally against is number five; navigation is a learned skill and it takes practice, I would rather icons stay 'off' but that the appropriate tools and systems (map drawing tools, period-appropriate signal systems) are given to the players to use.

 

That said, I am suspect of any of this being acted on. The A-20 arrived with the navigator's position absent because there was nothing for the player to do. Who wants to twiddle around with protractors and mathematics when players can shoot guns? pew pew!!!

  

 

Heartily agree, as i've mentioned in the bombs thread I honestly feel like bombers aren't wanted in this game sometimes, all the glory goes to the fighters and us dirt turners get the second thoughts. I know the 234 is coming but, I can't see that making any difference or having anything particularly special. i'd much rather we see flyable C-47's, B-25's, and honestly a later version of the A-20.
Hell, i'd like to see torpedoes added, we know they're possible thanks to mods. with a channel map coming this should be a big thing.

 

 

[LukeFF]

11 hours ago, Leifr said:

That said, I am suspect of any of this being acted on. The A-20 arrived with the navigator's position absent because there was nothing for the player to do. Who wants to twiddle around with protractors and mathematics when players can shoot guns? pew pew!!!

 

Dude, I never said that I agreed with the idea to not model the A-20's nose position. I've merely said that it's not been modeled because currently there are no guns for the navigator to man and because there are obviously no advanced navigation tools for him to use. And, of course, the bombsight is controlled by the pilot, so...it is what it is at the moment. If something changes in the feature where the navigators of all bombers are given more to do, then it's likely that position in the A-20 will be rendered playable.

Edited April 23, 2021 by LukeFF

[Legioneod]

Nice suggestions. The only thing I really want for bombers is for the bombardier station to be modeled and manable by a separate player other than the pilot. Would be really cool to take up a bomber with my friends and I could just focus on flying while my friends did all the other things (man the guns, navigate, man the bombsight, etc.)

[Enceladus828]

7 hours ago, LukeFF said:

And, of course, the bombsight is controlled by the pilot

Which is a complete joke.

[=KG76=flyus747]

Very solid ideas.

 

I'd like to also suggest on top of that, the ability to reload mid-clip and recollect ammunition from magazines not completely spent.

 

It sucks when you want a full clip to prepare for the enemy diving on you but you must first waste all your ammo before you can reload. 

 

 

[misc]

This, all of this, please.

 

 

And the gunner accuracy could use a slight buff, they can't hit the broad side of a barn at 10 feet anymore.