Addressing weak brakes

[D3adCZE]

Hello,

I'd like to open topic about incredibly weak brakes which we have in this game. It has come to the point that keeping plane straight on landing is almost impossible as full right rudder and full right brake is not enough to keep the plane from spinning to the left and destroying it in the following drift. I will try to compile more data on this issue and post them in this topic.

[ragvard]

What plane are you refering to? While i also think that the brakes are too weak in many cases, i never experienced crash on landing because of that.

[MasterBaiter]

The brakes are simply not as effective than they should be; with efficient brakes you could stop your plane when you are starting to spin on the ground while taxiing for example.

[-=No.66=-Griff1999]

You can see it in full swing with the Spitfires if you leave your landing flaps down whilst rolling to complete stop on a landing, the brakes don't do a sausage to stop the turn.

 

- Griff

[ragvard]

Yeah, it's strange that you can drive around with full brakes and low rpm in some planes

[ragvard]

I did some testing with the Spitfires and it's insane. As Griff stated there is no way to stop the turn when rolling out.

 

Edit: After some more testing i found out that you have to counter the slightest nose tilt by SLAMMING the brake in the other direction. And i mean full pressure. If you're just a bit too late, even full brake won't save you, there's nothing you can do to prevent spinning. I have no idea how "realistic" this behaviour is, just noting my observations.

Edited April 22, 2021 by ragvard

[D3adCZE]

@ragvard I have the same experience with 190s, Mustangs and RAF planes. It is insane. There is no chance to correct for the spin. I still did not have the time to compile enough information, I am working on it though.

[Bernard_IV]

The brakes are set to a moderate setting because nobody has a progressive pedal or button to modulate them.  A slider to control that would be nice.

[[DBS]Browning]

56 minutes ago, Bernard_IV said:

nobody

?

[JG300_Egon]

@Bernard_IV :
Nobody has rudder pedals ? ?

A Luftwaffe pilot (Erich Brunotte) told in a Youtube video that they could hold the planes (Bf109, Fw190A, Dora) while full throttle without moving.

Even if we consider that full throttle is a bit too much and that the memory of the old pilot is not as clear 75 years after, we are far from that.



 

Edited May 4, 2021 by JG300_Egon

[Bernard_IV]

I think a slider to control the sensitivity would be a nice solution.  It is set that way so people don't nose over and all of that.

[Jade_Monkey]

Long time request of mine, current brakes seem insufficient.

 

On the other end DCS  are ridiculously effective. Something intermediate would be ideal. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

On 5/5/2021 at 4:52 PM, Bernard_IV said:

It is set that way so people don't nose over and all of that.

Thats the reason. Back then brakes were powerfull enought to nose over on landing when slamming them (especially in the Lagg-3 and Yak-1). That caused people to complain that they couldn't modulate brake input via keys/buttons and that the brake strengh should be altered.

 

Not saying that the brakes ingame are completely wrong, brake fading certainly was a thing in reality, but they surely should be much stronger on a properly maintained aircraft.

On 5/5/2021 at 4:52 PM, Bernard_IV said:

I think a slider to control the sensitivity would be a nice solution.

The solution is to use cadence braking (like in a non anti skid assisted car) or to use them more appropiately (brakes were spared as much as possible in reality whereas people ingame slam them whenever possible to have the shortes rollout).

Edited May 7, 2021 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Blutaar]

14 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_5tuka said:

brakes were spared as much as possible in reality whereas people ingame slam them whenever possible to have the shortes rollout

 

We have to slam the brakes because the brakes have no stopping power. I would love to be more careful with brakes but this game does not simulate proper brakes like in DCS for example. There i have to be cautious not to brake to hard or the wheels will blockade.

[gimpy117]

I mean most modern brakes will hold an airplane in a full throttle condition for run ups, but, I think they feel about right when the aircraft is moving. 

I mean the cessnas I work have quad pumpers, but even those aren't magic  

Edited May 15, 2021 by gimpy117

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

.50cal has been merged with incredibly effective spade grip on all Spit marks

which also include a collector addition of a Hurri for free!

 

[Angry_Kitten]

just belly land then.... sheesh.... 

[E69_geramos109]

On 5/4/2021 at 6:56 PM, JG300_Egon said:

@Bernard_IV :
Nobody has rudder pedals ? ?

A Luftwaffe pilot (Erich Brunotte) told in a Youtube video that they could hold the planes (Bf109, Fw190A, Dora) while full throttle without moving.

Even if we consider that full throttle is a bit too much and that the memory of the old pilot is not as clear 75 years after, we are far from that.



 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by E69_geramos109

[SCG_motoadve]

I fly 3 planes in real life, two of them with the most powerful brakes you can buy, to do bush flying.

Surface its important

Cessna 170 full power 180HP I can hold the plane.

Cessna 182 full power 280 HP plane starts going slowly one pavement and a bit faster if on grass or gravel, so brakes cannot hold it.

CJ6 Nanchang drum pretty old style WWII Russian brakes 285HP starts going a bit on pavement.

 

WWII planes have big tires (109, 190) the bigger the tires the more braking power you need, I am impressed this pilot said he could hold the brakes with full power and plane wont move with 1000 HP or more.

I have some pilots friends who fly real WWII planes, I will ask them about it.

[Cynic_Al]

42 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

A Luftwaffe pilot (Erich Brunotte) told in a Youtube video that they could hold the planes (Bf109, Fw190A, Dora) while full throttle without moving.

 

Just to eliminate loss of wheel grip as a factor, could you repeat the test on a concrete runway?

[E69_geramos109]

58 minutes ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

Just to eliminate loss of wheel grip as a factor, could you repeat the test on a concrete runway?

The guy told that they landed on a field so they had low grip condition as well so that is why I put the same conditions on the video. I will repeat the test but the result is going to be the same 

[Cynic_Al]

On 5/5/2021 at 3:52 PM, Bernard_IV said:

I think a slider to control the sensitivity would be a nice solution.  It is set that way so people don't nose over and all of that.

 

 

It would be easy for the game to differentiate and behave according to the type of control in use.  Where a button is in use, apply a fixed force (which could not be maximum), where a variable control (slider, pedal) is in use, allow variable control up to a realistic maximum.

[SharpeXB]

I can roll out straight in all  these planes, even the ones with the free tail wheel like the Spitfire. Are you sure you are tracking straight down the runway when you touch down? If you’re already off center at high speed the brakes won’t help you. And give it a bit of prop when you roll out. 

[[DBS]Browning]

I have a memory of seeing or reading about a 109 turn on the spot by applying breaks, pitching down, lifting the tail wheel off the ground completely with the prop-wash over the elevator and then turning the aircraft.

However I can't find a source.

[354thFG_Drewm3i-VR]

A secondary issue with ground handling are rudders that are far too responsive at slow speeds.