G Model - Stamina regenerating instead of depleting at massive positive G directly after negative G.

[ACG_Cass]

After draining your stamina with a negative G maneuver, stamina appears to be regained when pulling a positive G maneuver. This is the case up to max g pull and blackout. 

 

I've attached tracks for 2 of the tests I did in the G14 and Spit IX along with the video recordings below but this should be fairly simple to repeat. The bug does not appear to go the other way (positive to negative) and only seems to affect positive pulls preceding a negative G push. I'd noticed that a quick nose down bunt seems to allow you to not drain any stamina from your initial pull, but it appears as though it's actually replenishing even above +8g. 

 

N.B The "time to blackout" timers that you have implemented based off of stamina levels do not seem to be effected and are working as intended. This purely seems to be an issue with stamina regeneration. 

 

G14 Test:

 

 

Spitfire Mk. IXe Test:

 

 

 

P51 Test showing stamina regeneration at over +8 G. 

 

 

 

 

Let me know if you have any questions or issues repeating the above. 

 

Thanks, 

Cass

GModelBugReportTracks.zip

[-DED-Rapidus]

@Cass, the mechanism of the effect of overloads on the pilots is the same, the only difference is in the presence of anti-overload suits and the position of the seat back of the pilot.

[LemonQuat]

4 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Cass, the mechanism of the effect of overloads on the pilots is the same, the only difference is in the presence of anti-overload suits and the position of the seat back of the pilot.

Right, but what is the logic behind negative Gs leading to a replenishment of pilot fatigue as the pilot transitions immediately to pulling substantial positive G? It's not a plane modeling issue at this point, but a discrepancy in the way the game as a whole treats the human body. 

 

You see a lot of pilots exploiting the current G implementation by flopping about like fish and suffering no consequences in the way of G-LOC or even fatigue. Humorous, yes - but a farce.

[Barnacles]

4 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

@Cass, the mechanism of the effect of overloads on the pilots is the same, the only difference is in the presence of anti-overload suits and the position of the seat back of the pilot.

The purpose of the post is not to compare different planes. 

 

It shows that the staminina bar recharges quickly, even when the pilot is under +6g.

 

 

 

 

 

[-DED-Rapidus]

24 minutes ago, Barnacles said:

It shows that the staminina bar recharges quickly, even when the pilot is under +6g.

Yes, that's a problem, thank you. I'm looking into this issue, so I didn't focus on it.

[ACG_Cass]

Thanks for your response @-DED-Rapidus!

 

Good to hear it's being worked on. 

 

Just to highlight another thing that I've noticed. It's not just that the stamina regenerates, the stamina regenerates significantly faster than when the pilot is at rest and not pulling any G's at all (+1G). It appears as though this phase does stop and the stamina begins to reduce, but only once you have regained a significant amount of stamina. 

 

I've recorded some examples showing this below:

 

G14:

 

 

 

Spitfire:

(note: I believe the system gives you a little stamina "bump" when you wake up from gloc so it looks like it regenerates faster)

 

 

I haven't provided tracks for these as this should be easily repeatable. Let me know if have any questions or need anything further. 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Cass

[Denum]

@-DED-Rapidus 

 

Hey!

 

You work crazy hard in here with us and respond so often.

 

Thank you. I and many others appreciate it more then a simple forum post will ever convey. 

[Denum]

Failed to get a track

 

But noticed mid fight when I threw negative G's after several positive G turns, as my pilot was greying out from fatigue that I regained significant stamina. 

 

Went from the grey screen to panting sound almost instantly and was able to pull another hard turn that really should have knocked me out.

[ACG_Cass]

Hi @-DED-Rapidus, 

 

Any word on whether a solution has been identified for this? Understand new content development has taken priority over the last few updates but would be good to know if we can expect a fix in the near future. 

 

It's unfortunately meant that the type of flying the G model was meant to stop has become even more effective. 

 

Thanks,

[-DED-Rapidus]

@ACG_Cass, the problem has been identified, and we will work on it. The task is included in the work plan.

[ACG_Cass]

Excellent stuff - thanks @-DED-Rapidus!!

[HawkerMkIII_]

Wow, awesome!! 

[AnPetrovich]

Hi guys,
a quick answer:
you will better understand this "stamina" indicator if you read it as a "prediction" of the pilot's ability to experience the current G-load.
A pilot tolerates negative and positive Gs differently. If you rapid set a strong negative G, you will be drained in seconds. The indicator will drop quickly. But in reality it doesn't mean that after this manouver you can not keep, let's say, 3...4G for a long time. You will even feel better for a moment when you change the direction of G. The same way like you will feel better if you jump into the very hot sauna (positive Gs) after get frozen in the ice water hole (negative Gs). Taking into account, btw, that one get frozen much faster in the ice hole, than get overheated in the sauna. But if you have only one indicator of your "stamina" (no matter if you are "freezing" or "overheating") then it will "restored" at the very first moment after changing -G to +G, just to inform you about your "new" abilities at THIS particular G.

[ACG_Cass]

Hi @AnPetrovich,

 

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond. I was a little confused but your analogy helped me understand it quite well. 

 

So the indicator is effectively a G Tolerance meter that shows you how much G you can handle at that point, it's obviously reduced as you sustain more G. In the case of negative G, you are reducing your tolerance levels in that moment, but as you pull positive G the effect is reduced and your tolerance levels go back to where they were. 

 

It looks like the system is working as intended. The problem we have is that there is very little punishment built into the system for negative G's. I'll use the same analogy:

 

The ice water hole is incredibly uncomfortable, it's dangerous and you really wouldn't want to spend very long in there unless you absolutely had to (we are lucky as we don't have to get in the water, we sit at home in nice comfy chairs and stare at a screen). When we first get into the sauna we are punished for having gone into the ice water, but it quickly goes away. The issue now is that we can jump back into the ice water and then into the sauna and do the same thing over and over again. 

 

The G system is really great but as you can see from the first video, you are free to run back and forth between the ice water and sauna without much punishment:

 

 

I understand we have the "dizzyness" effect that stops people from changing from positive to negative G quickly, but perhaps this should be modified to include longer changes between the two?

 

Either that or negative G needs to be punished much more severely and there be an accumulative punishment for switching between the two. We're unfortunately still players in a game and will find ways to gain an advantage. In order to create an authentic fighting experience, it looks like we need some more restrictions

 

Thanks, 

Cass

Edited June 8, 2021 by ACG_Cass

[AnPetrovich]

There is a punish in our G-model for changing Gs that restricts a pilot's tolerance in long terms. If you repeat changing Gs from negative to positive and back many times you could not sustain high G (pos or neg) as long as a fresh pilot could. You will gradually become exhausted. Not as fast as if you keep only positive or only negative G. Because changing the direction of G does really give you some rest. Aerobatic pilots experience very high positive and negative G's many-many times in one flight, and they are still able to piloting well. I mean this is not such a big problem for a well training pilot to alternate G's, especially if these sets are short (5-8 sec). One long set of G is much worse.

[ACG_Cass]

Interesting, I didn't think it was that way round. Thanks for the insight @AnPetrovich

 

I managed to finally find an example that is within the tolerance range we have:

 

 

[AnPetrovich]

You are welcome.
The video made me anxious. This is a very bad idea to push high negative G's with inexperienced people onboard. It's easy to become handicapped for a rest of life. Never try it without gradual training.