Weapons Mod

[354thFG_Rails]

no more discussion about other topics please. Keep this relevant to my mod. I would appreciate this not getting shut down because other people don't know where to keep certain discussion in other sub forums. THANKS!!!

[FTC_ChilliBalls]

Generally like this very much, but then suddenly in the video it causes wings to rip off in just a few hits, and I´m not too terribly sure this is how it worked IRL.

What I notice with the current unmoded damage model is a lack of fires when compared to the relative density of such occurrences in anectdotal evidence,

as well as a lack of impact of coolant leakage or failure. But then again, I don´t really know how it worked IRL.

 

So in conclusion I imagine that this mod is more realistic in regards to aero damage caused by .50 cal but not in the overall structural destructiveness.

 

    

[ACG_Cass]

18 hours ago, So_ein_Feuerball said:

Generally like this very much, but then suddenly in the video it causes wings to rip off in just a few hits, and I´m not too terribly sure this is how it worked IRL.

What I notice with the current unmoded damage model is a lack of fires when compared to the relative density of such occurrences in anectdotal evidence,

as well as a lack of impact of coolant leakage or failure. But then again, I don´t really know how it worked IRL.

 

That happens with the original M2's as well. There are a couple of spars modelled in the 109 wing that if you hit 1/2 times, it will rip the wing right off. 

 

The lack of impact of coolant is very frustrating (this is an issue on Allied planes as well). There doesn't appear to be any penalty of having a leaking radiator and it's almost as if there is a just a magic time limit until your engine suddenly starts overheating. A compromised radiator system should immediately cause heating issues that deteriorate over time. 

[VAG_Sevy]

Nice MOD, I think we have to continue in this direction whether the users are for or against.
This at least proves that we have an interest and challenges the developers on details that they may not have sufficiently developed.
it's a good thing for them!

 

I would like to report something strange, maybe it's me or maybe a little bug!
About smoke effects (village smoke for example), color change randomly and go from gray to yellow depending on the distance or the angle of view.
Do others also have this problem ??

[sniperton]

3 hours ago, TVH46_Assi said:

I would like to report something strange, maybe it's me or maybe a little bug!
About smoke effects (village smoke for example), color change randomly and go from gray to yellow depending on the distance or the angle of view.
Do others also have this problem ??

Different issue, has nothing to do with this mod. (Try NVidia Control Panel > Antialiasing - transparency > multisample instead of supersample.)

 

[VAG_Sevy]

1 hour ago, sniperton said:

Different issue, has nothing to do with this mod. (Try NVidia Control Panel > Antialiasing - transparency > multisample instead of supersample.)

Nice to answer sniperton, but you're not helping.
If I haven't any graphical issue without modification, that's why it has everything to do with the mod,
and that whatever my configuration or my video settings.
What you are proposing is to put plaster on wooden leg.
if it happens to me, it may happen to others.
I guess the modder would prefer this not happen at all!

I'll wait for an answer from QB.Rails
No offense.

Thanks for trying to help me

Edited March 7, 2021 by TVH46_Assi

[LizLemon]

1 hour ago, TVH46_Assi said:

Nice to answer sniperton, but you're not helping.
If I haven't any graphical issue without modification, that's why it has everything to do with the mod,
and that whatever my configuration or my video settings.
What you are proposing is to put plaster on wooden leg.
if it happens to me, it may happen to others.
I guess the modder would prefer this not happen at all!

I'll wait for an answer from QB.Rails
No offense.

Thanks for trying to help me

 

This mod is not altering any sort of graphical effects. The probably you are encountering is a graphics driver bug. Just because you haven't noticed it before doesn't mean this isn't the case.

[VAG_Sevy]

Hey, you want to know the worst in this story ... I did my tests on Veilikie! of course Veilikie it gives this

 

And on other maps there is no bug.

 

I do not understand anything anymore !!!

[VAG_Sevy]

6 hours ago, sniperton said:

Different issue, has nothing to do with this mod. (Try NVidia Control Panel > Antialiasing - transparency > multisample instead of supersample.)

 

 

3 hours ago, LizLemon said:

 

This mod is not altering any sort of graphical effects. The probably you are encountering is a graphics driver bug. Just because you haven't noticed it before doesn't mean this isn't the case.

First of all I would like to apologize to Sniperton and LizLemon, you were both right: Nothing to do with the .50 mod ... Every time I deactivated the modification I loaded  Lapino map, for speed reasons. Then I made the link by mistake.
So I still have the problem on Veilikie map
I tried Sniperton modification on Nvidia settings, it's a bit better, but I still have that yellow color sparkling with the gray of the smoke

[sniperton]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:26 PM, QB.Rails said:

no more discussion about other topics please. Keep this relevant to my mod.

@TVH46_Assino offense, but please report your graphic issue elsewhere (Tech section for instance).

[Dutch2]

On 3/2/2021 at 9:26 PM, QB.Rails said:

no more discussion about other topics please. Keep this relevant to my mod. I would appreciate this not getting shut down because other people don't know where to keep certain discussion in other sub forums. THANKS!!!

 

What tool do you use to convert to the .BIN file?

[354thFG_Rails]

I just unpacked the .gtp files. I did nothing with the .bin. the .txt files are the only things I've modified.

[LizLemon]

33 minutes ago, QB.Rails said:

I just unpacked the .gtp files. I did nothing with the .bin. the .txt files are the only things I've modified.

 

There is no need to include files that aren't altered, the game will load them up fine. It won't reduce the filesize that much so it doesn't really matter, but you could slightly reduce your mod size.

[354thFG_Rails]

I figured but i wasn't sure if it would affect anything so I included them. I'll update it at some point to reflect it, thanks.

[Dutch2]

2 hours ago, LizLemon said:

 

There is no need to include files that aren't altered, the game will load them up fine. It won't reduce the filesize that much so it doesn't really matter, but you could slightly reduce your mod size.

 

Thanks, but what is the reason for this .BIN file? I always thought it was the converted .txt file. 

[LizLemon]

6 minutes ago, Dutch2 said:

 

Thanks, but what is the reason for this .BIN file? I always thought it was the converted .txt file. 

 

Its some kind of special format the devs are using and probably created themselves. If you open it with a hex editor you can see a 'pattern' to the data. In theory it could be decoded/reversed if one is smart enough or willing to dedicate enough time to it (ie not me). Based on what I've seen elsewhere in the game the .bin file seems to store some kind of ballistics data, but it could be collision stuff.

[354thFG_Rails]

1 hour ago, Dutch2 said:

 

Thanks, but what is the reason for this .BIN file? I always thought it was the converted .txt file. 

yes, the .BIN file is used by the devs for something else. I would assume different calculations or formulas used in game? You can delete it if you want. It has not effect on my mod. Just keep the modded .TXT files in the right folders.

[354thFG_Rails]

This mod has been updated. I have adjusted the M2 slightly. They 131's, 151's and Hispano's and 30 caliber weapons have now been adjusted. Any feedback regarding performance is appreciated to get it dialed in. Thanks everyone.

[Stonehouse]

Thanks for the update!

 

Could you give a brief paragraph to generally describe your changes please? Guessing only slight tweaks to the M2 so mainly to say what the changes to the other weapons were.

 

As before with the M2s, it is so I can explain to others in my flying group.

 

Thanks

 

<edit> also to mention to people that the new bullet_eng_7-7x56_ap.txt and bullet_ger_13x64_he.txt are changed by the GFX_Multicoloured Tracers mod so you will need to merge the changes made by the two mods to preserve and use both.

Edited March 19, 2021 by No457_Stonehouse
GFX tracer mod

[Mtnbiker1998]

1 hour ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

Thanks for the update!

 

Could you give a brief paragraph to generally describe your changes please? Guessing only slight tweaks to the M2 so mainly to say what the changes to the other weapons were.

 

As before with the M2s, it is so I can explain to others in my flying group.

 

Thanks

Seconded, I'm guessing that the HE rounds were toned down a bit to balance better with the "AP" .50s from the mod But I am curious to hear the "Official" changelog

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Mtnbiker1998

[Stonehouse]

Not sure but among other changes it looks like the MG131 went from a HE round to a solid. Only my point of view and so I am happy for people to feel otherwise but I was under the impression that the standard belting was an AP round and then 2 HE/I rounds and that the first round had to be AP to deal with the muzzle cap. I don't think the game deals with that sort of belting but feel that the stock choice of HE round was a better representation that changing all to MG rounds. Also muzzle velocity went down by 40m/s which is quite a lot. Sources I have seen so far put it at 730 or 750 m/s. Stock was 750. I cannot comment on changes to armour penetration etc.

 

Could I ask that we get a separate version that is for the M2's only please?

 

Unfortunately I overwrote the old M2 only version or else I wouldn't ask but as it stands I am not quite sure how to untangle the M2s from the others so either have to ask or not use the mod at all. 

 

I did feel the M2s were less than they should be and would like to continue to use the mod for that but not for the MG131. Never really noticed a problem with the .30s so also don't feel I need to change them. I understand if you feel you do not want to split the mod so it is possible to enable each weapon type separately but again just my point of view it would allow people a choice other than all or nothing.

 

Thanks

[354thFG_Rails]

2 hours ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

Thanks for the update!

 

Could you give a brief paragraph to generally describe your changes please? Guessing only slight tweaks to the M2 so mainly to say what the changes to the other weapons were.

 

As before with the M2s, it is so I can explain to others in my flying group.

 

Thanks

 

<edit> also to mention to people that the new bullet_eng_7-7x56_ap.txt and bullet_ger_13x64_he.txt are changed by the GFX_Multicoloured Tracers mod so you will need to merge the changes made by the two mods to preserve and use both.

131's Have been toned down. The ballistics file was changed. I lowered the muzzle velocity and base damage of the HE round and changed the weapon class to machine guns "8" from high explosive and fragmental "6". I also upped the max redirection to 1 from 0, I'm hoping this will cause some rounds to ricochet as currently with stock they do not do this at all I believe. The effects file was changed. I toned down the radius of the tnt shockwave damage and shrapnel damage to .4 meters from 1.3 meters. I also lowered the shockwave damage, but the kept the shrapnel damage the same.

 

151's I have not touched the ballistics file. The effects file was changed. I made changes similar to the 131. Radius is down to 1 meter from 5.3 meters. The Shockwave damage has been lowered and the shrapnel damage is the same as stock.

 

Hispanos are the same as 151's. Ballistics file has not been touched. Effects files changes are similar. Radius is down to .8 meters from 4.6 meters.  The shockwave damage has been lowered and the shrapnel damage is the same as stock.

 

30 caliber weapons effects files have a similar modification as the M2. The effects file changes are about 50% less than the M2. Basically I gave the 30 caliber weapons a HE component of shockwave and shrapnel.

 

I'll update my screenshots from the very first post when I can, so people can see the changes I have made.

21 minutes ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

Not sure but among other changes it looks like the MG131 went from a HE round to a solid. Only my point of view and so I am happy for people to feel otherwise but I was under the impression that the standard belting was an AP round and then 2 HE/I rounds and that the first round had to be AP to deal with the muzzle cap. I don't think the game deals with that sort of belting but feel that the stock choice of HE round was a better representation that changing all to MG rounds. Also muzzle velocity went down by 40m/s which is quite a lot. Sources I have seen so far put it at 730 or 750 m/s. Stock was 750. I cannot comment on changes to armour penetration etc.

 

Could I ask that we get a separate version that is for the M2's only please?

 

Unfortunately I overwrote the old M2 only version or else I wouldn't ask but as it stands I am not quite sure how to untangle the M2s from the others so either have to ask or not use the mod at all. 

 

I did feel the M2s were less than they should be and would like to continue to use the mod for that but not for the MG131. Never really noticed a problem with the .30s so also don't feel I need to change them. I understand if you feel you do not want to split the mod so it is possible to enable each weapon type separately but again just my point of view it would allow people a choice other than all or nothing.

 

Thanks

This is pulled from wikipedia about the 131.

13 mm AP-T (Pzgr. L'Spur) - 710 m/s, projectile mass 38.5 grams (594 gr), muzzle energy 989 m/kg^[2]

13 mm HE-T (Sprgr. L'Spur) - 710 m/s, projectile mass 34 grams (520 gr)^[3]

13 mm HEI-T (Br. Sprgr. L'Spur) - 750 m/s, projectile mass 34 grams (520 gr) with 1.4 grams (22 gr) PETN + 0.3 grams (4.6 gr) thermite, muzzle energy 975 m/kg^[4]

 

I used the HE-T spec of 710 m/s I could always go back to the HEI-T specs though or what stock has it as. I was mainly wanting to see if I'd get more ricochets by changing the speed and also by changing it to machine guns rather than high explosive and fragmental. I believe all the does is change the bullets penetration calculations and also allows it to ricochet rather than explode on contact.

 

 

Just the M2 only in this folder. Thanks.

worldobjects.zip

Edited March 19, 2021 by QB.Rails

[Stonehouse]

Thank you for the M2 only zip. Much appreciated.

 

<edit> No way of being 100% sure of accuracy really with the way the internet is but I have seen German sites that list Luftwaffe references that say both 34 gm rounds were 750m/s and only the heavier AP-T round was slower at 710. I suspect that the places I have seen listing 730m/s for the MG131 have just averaged the two velocities. Anyway thinking wikipedia probably has the speed on the HE-T round incorrect. Just an FYI really in case it makes any difference.

 

<edit2> also remembered this site. Again no idea of accuracy but it is quite in depth and may assist you find a more accurate representation as it covers a lot of the aircraft guns used in the game. Last maintained Jan 21 so the author is actively correcting and updating their site. The main reason I thought you might find it of interest is that it assigns a rating to both the ammo and the gun to try to allow comparison.

 

WORLD WAR 2 FIGHTER GUN EFFECTIVENESS (quarryhs.co.uk)

 

http://www.quarryhs.co.uk/ammotables.htm

 

 

Also check your PM.

Edited March 19, 2021 by No457_Stonehouse

[354thFG_Rails]

Values on the 131 have been changed back to stock aside from shell type. That is still machine gun "8"

[Mtnbiker1998]

Enjoyed the new update, the updated .303s have maybe a little too much punch for my taste but I wouldn't know. the rest feels pretty good.

 

However the .303 tweak does pretty much totally break Flying circus, unsurprisingly HE rounds vs wood and canvas is quite destructive, So in the interest of not having to change up my mods every time I wanna jump into Arras, I'll be downloading the .50s only version (Plus then I wont have to worry as much about tweaking things to get multicolor tracers working with the 13mms!)

 

Keep up the good work! 

[354thFG_Rails]

2 hours ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Enjoyed the new update, the updated .303s have maybe a little too much punch for my taste but I wouldn't know. the rest feels pretty good.

 

However the .303 tweak does pretty much totally break Flying circus, unsurprisingly HE rounds vs wood and canvas is quite destructive, So in the interest of not having to change up my mods every time I wanna jump into Arras, I'll be downloading the .50s only version (Plus then I wont have to worry as much about tweaking things to get multicolor tracers working with the 13mms!)

 

Keep up the good work! 

Thanks for the feedback on flying circus. I'll be sure to tweak it.

[354thFG_Rails]

Files have been tweaked to not affect Flying Circus aircraft. Also other weapons have been modified. 131, 151/20, Hispano, UBS, ShVAK, Italian 12.7 and 7.7, Mg17, browning 30 cal and british 303.

[Jade_Monkey]

Wow really nice! 

 

Just tested the .50 cals and it feels much closer to the damage I would expect.

 

I have not tested the rest of the guns but definitely a great mod to have until the devs have time to review the .50 cals.

[352nd_Persecutor]

Installing this mod (version March 20) via JSGME with the path <game folder><data><luascripts><worldobjects><ballistics>

results in an immediate crash of the dserver we operate (mods enabled) when a trigger is pulled).  Removing the mod and joining a new server instance results in normal behavior.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

 

Or am I simply installing it incorrectly? (wouldn't be the first time, lol - with a groan).

[354thFG_Rails]

19 hours ago, 352nd_Persecutor said:

Installing this mod (version March 20) via JSGME with the path <game folder><data><luascripts><worldobjects><ballistics>

results in an immediate crash of the dserver we operate (mods enabled) when a trigger is pulled).  Removing the mod and joining a new server instance results in normal behavior.

 

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

 

Or am I simply installing it incorrectly? (wouldn't be the first time, lol - with a groan).

Try getting rid of the ballistics part. There are multiple files affected. Not just ballistics. 

[too-cool]

3 hours ago, QB.Rails said:

Try getting rid of the ballistics part. There are multiple files affected. Not just ballistics. 

Try getting rid of the ballistics part. There are multiple files affected. Not just ballistics.

 

That response says, if you are not a modder don't use this or, it would have been made jsgme ready just like your 50cal mod.  TC

[354thFG_Rails]

3 hours ago, too-cool said:

Try getting rid of the ballistics part. There are multiple files affected. Not just ballistics.

 

That response says, if you are not a modder don't use this or, it would have been made jsgme ready just like your 50cal mod.  TC

I can make it JGSME compatible but some people don’t use it. If you just download my mod and throw it in LuaScripts it still works. I don’t use JEGME that’s why I haven’t bothered. 

[Mtnbiker1998]

Been using this on and off since it came out (back when it was still just the .50 cal mod! lol), between switching back to vanilla guns with the (quite excellent) .50 dispersion mod by Cass, I find a like a lot of things about this mod compared to vanilla, particularly the German 13mms feel just right.

 

However, it feels like this mod overdoes .50s quite a bit. It feels like the lightest touch anywhere near an engine, cockpit, or even wing root NEAR the cockpit will instantly kill or set fire to anything. While the occasional "lucky hit" should absolutely be doing that, it shouldn't be all the time. Yet I find myself in singleplayer getting incredible snapshots, flameouts, and pilot snipes on nearly every plane I fire at. Granted I like to think I'm a pretty good shot, especially with the K-14 gyro to help, but I'm not THAT good. if I had to guess, this is probably due to the HE component added to the .50s, and the mod being unable to change the way guns are belted in the game, making every single round an HE round with quite a bit of punch and AOE effect against critical areas. 

 

While the .50s in vanilla are certainly not perfect, the lack of aero damage being a crutch (which is nice to see in the mod), they're also far from useless if you can hit the right spots, namely engines and cockpits. It'd be nice to have a balance of both, good aero damage without overdoing the damage to compenents. I think what we really need is the proper box convergence used by the USAAF, which will make our multi-wing-gunned planes perform much more on par with the way they should; Increasing the likelihood of hitting those critical areas with a big cloud of lead.

 

The dispersion mod isn't perfect in that regard, but I think its a better option than making an already deadly (in the right circumstances) bullet even more deadly.

 

TL/DR; instead of making the .50 bullets more powerful, maybe a tweaked version of Cass' .50 dispersion (ideally a properly boresighted box convergence, but I doubt thats possible in-game) would make this mod feel a bit better.

[354thFG_Rails]

1 hour ago, Mtnbiker1998 said:

Been using this on and off since it came out (back when it was still just the .50 cal mod! lol), between switching back to vanilla guns with the (quite excellent) .50 dispersion mod by Cass, I find a like a lot of things about this mod compared to vanilla, particularly the German 13mms feel just right.

 

However, it feels like this mod overdoes .50s quite a bit. It feels like the lightest touch anywhere near an engine, cockpit, or even wing root NEAR the cockpit will instantly kill or set fire to anything. While the occasional "lucky hit" should absolutely be doing that, it shouldn't be all the time. Yet I find myself in singleplayer getting incredible snapshots, flameouts, and pilot snipes on nearly every plane I fire at. Granted I like to think I'm a pretty good shot, especially with the K-14 gyro to help, but I'm not THAT good. if I had to guess, this is probably due to the HE component added to the .50s, and the mod being unable to change the way guns are belted in the game, making every single round an HE round with quite a bit of punch and AOE effect against critical areas. 

 

While the .50s in vanilla are certainly not perfect, the lack of aero damage being a crutch (which is nice to see in the mod), they're also far from useless if you can hit the right spots, namely engines and cockpits. It'd be nice to have a balance of both, good aero damage without overdoing the damage to compenents. I think what we really need is the proper box convergence used by the USAAF, which will make our multi-wing-gunned planes perform much more on par with the way they should; Increasing the likelihood of hitting those critical areas with a big cloud of lead.

 

The dispersion mod isn't perfect in that regard, but I think its a better option than making an already deadly (in the right circumstances) bullet even more deadly.

 

TL/DR; instead of making the .50 bullets more powerful, maybe a tweaked version of Cass' .50 dispersion (ideally a properly boresighted box convergence, but I doubt thats possible in-game) would make this mod feel a bit better.

I’m planning on doing a fairly big update soon. It’s going to include stand alone M2 mod and a weapons mod version. Also two versions that will be JSGME capable and non JSGME. I’ll take your input into account and trying tweaking the damage again. Thanks for using this, I really appreciate it. 

[Mtnbiker1998]

15 minutes ago, QB.Rails said:

I’m planning on doing a fairly big update soon. It’s going to include stand alone M2 mod and a weapons mod version. Also two versions that will be JSGME capable and non JSGME. I’ll take your input into account and trying tweaking the damage again. Thanks for using this, I really appreciate it. 

Great to hear! I'm super excited to see this mod evolve. 

[354thFG_Rails]

UPDATED! Big update includes 5 versions. M2 mod with and without JSGME. Weapons MOD with and without JSGME and one that includes the tracer mod. The weapons mod update now includes all bombs and all weapons except for tank cannons and handguns. If you have any troubles or questions just ask.

Edited April 16, 2021 by QB.Rails

[Stonehouse]

I did have one question - did you happen to test the results of combining the dispersion mod and yours for the M2s (possibly the others too I guess since there was a version of the dispersion mod covering most or all MGs and cannons)?

 

I haven't tried your latest version yet and to be honest haven't had enough time with the previous version of your mod to be sure but I thought I had noticed that with M2s generating the HE effect plus the dispersion mod suddenly became much, much more deadly. I am assuming for now that the dispersion change is increasing the rounds on target.

Edited April 16, 2021 by No457_Stonehouse

[354thFG_Rails]

20 minutes ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

I did have one question - did you happen to test the results of combining the dispersion mod and yours for the M2s (possibly the others too I guess since there was a version of the dispersion mod covering most or all MGs and cannons)?

 

I haven't tried your latest version yet and to be honest haven't had enough time with the previous version of your mod to be sure but I thought I had noticed that with M2s generating the HE effect plus the dispersion mod suddenly became much, much more deadly. I am assuming for now that the dispersion change is increasing the rounds on target.

On my mods I have the dispersion mod as well. I did not include it in mine. But I could easily add it. Would just have to ask Cass for permission. I did not notice a huge difference with my mod using the dispersion mod with my M2 mod. There is probably a noticeable difference but I might be to use to mine now. 

[Stonehouse]

Ok thanks. It wasn't necessarily asking to combine the dispersion mod although it probably makes sense for you and Cass to have one combined mod as you would expect the combination to have an impact on the results and how much extra you added to the M2 rounds. I guess my point was that previously with point convergence with the M2s you tended to either hit big or not really hit at all. With the dispersion mod you get an area of convergence so you tend to hit with a higher average number of rounds which might mean if combined with your mod it ends up as more lethal than you had intended. I felt that I had been seeing a lot more targets catch on fire or get crippling aero damage using the dispersion mod from rear angle off single bursts than before but haven't had time to check things against bomber size aircraft or even fighters in a large enough sample to figure out for sure if I am imagining it and so I wondered if you had seen anything. See how it goes I guess.

[354thFG_Rails]

19 minutes ago, No457_Stonehouse said:

Ok thanks. It wasn't necessarily asking to combine the dispersion mod although it probably makes sense for you and Cass to have one combined mod as you would expect the combination to have an impact on the results and how much extra you added to the M2 rounds. I guess my point was that previously with point convergence with the M2s you tended to either hit big or not really hit at all. With the dispersion mod you get an area of convergence so you tend to hit with a higher average number of rounds which might mean if combined with your mod it ends up as more lethal than you had intended. I felt that I had been seeing a lot more targets catch on fire or get crippling aero damage using the dispersion mod from rear angle off single bursts than before but haven't had time to check things against bomber size aircraft or even fighters in a large enough sample to figure out for sure if I am imagining it and so I wondered if you had seen anything. See how it goes I guess.

Yeah I’ll keep messing around with it to and see.