Steam VR Beta Update Jan 14th

[dburne]

Thought I would post here as some of it pertains to sims. Adding more reprojection frames for motion smoothing may help especially when wanting to run higher graphics settings.

Update Notes:
 

SteamVR Beta Updated - 1.16.1

If you encounter issues with this update, please post in the SteamVR Bug Report forum. If possible, please include a system report to aid in tracking down your issue. Replies to this post are not tracked for bug reporting purposes. Please use the forum linked above to report issues.

SteamVR:

Added per-app settings for overriding automatic throttling and prediction behavior. This is useful for applications with particularly poor performance that benefit instead from a fixed lower framerate for an overall smoother experience (e.g. sims). Note: These settings are only available to headsets which use SteamVR’s compositor (e.g. Index, Vive).

Allow motion smoothing to apply up to six frames of extrapolation (was three). Note: This also only applies to SteamVR’s compositor.

Disabled the HTTP request to check for updates when SteamVR is running without Steam.


OpenXR:

SteamVR now passes all OpenXR 1.0 conformance tests on Windows for Vulkan, OpenGL, D3D11, and D3D12.

 

[Mewt]

Yeah I’m hearing things on the MSFS Reddit about this. 
 

 

Very interesting. Need to test with IL2

[Panzerlang]

In tonight's co-op missions I had shimmering in the G2, a bit like when I tried it at 60htz (though not as bad). Seriously messed up. 

[Wolf8312]

Thanks for that Dburne. A hell of a time setting it up (anyone who didn't buy on steam will need UWPHook to convert a windows game into a non steam VR game) and dialing it in (prop mods graphics settings etc) but got it working well now and it really is the answer to my prayers it seems! Am sure it will get better too when the devs themselves come up with some alternatives for the motion smoothing/ artifacts problem as the GB/DCS devs have, but once the frame rate is locked down it really is insignificant in the trade off for such a smooth performance! 

 

Incredible thing about VR is the technological innovations it is producing! People can moan about reprojection but it really is a godsend!

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Wolf8312

[GER_GD]

What i see for now it is a game changer for me and my index ..realy good ..will do a few more test

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Wolf8312 said:

Thanks for that Dburne. A hell of a time setting it up (anyone who didn't buy on steam will need UWPHook to convert a windows game into a non steam VR game) and dialing it in (prop mods graphics settings etc) but got it working well now and it really is the answer to my prayers it seems! Am sure it will get better too when the devs themselves come up with some alternatives for the motion smoothing/ artifacts problem as the GB/DCS devs have, but once the frame rate is locked down it really is insignificant in the trade off for such a smooth performance! 

 

Incredible thing about VR is the technological innovations it is producing! People can moan about reprojection but it really is a godsend!

 

 

 

 

Good deal! Yeah I am quite happy with high GFX settings and running with Motion Smoothing locked to 45 fps.

Btw you can add the game to Steam Library in the Steam menu but it is a little convoluted, took me a bit to find it. Have to do it both in Steam and in Steam VR settings menu.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Hm not available for the Reverb G2. It seems though, at least for MSFS2020, the G2 runs better to begin with. WMR/OpenXR's motion reprojection actually gets the depth information properly, which SteamVR does not.

 

It's no help for IL-2 && Reverb G2 though.

[Wolf8312]

14 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hm not available for the Reverb G2. It seems though, at least for MSFS2020, the G2 runs better to begin with. WMR/OpenXR's motion reprojection actually gets the depth information properly, which SteamVR does not.

 

 

 

How do you mean depth information? Like depth perception is not as good or something?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hm not available for the Reverb G2. It seems though, at least for MSFS2020, the G2 runs better to begin with. WMR/OpenXR's motion reprojection actually gets the depth information properly, which SteamVR does not.

 

It's no help for IL-2 && Reverb G2 though.

 

Then why do they state Valve Index receives this benefit?  It certainly uses Steam VR. I use Open XR for MSFS2020, but I use Steam VR for IL-2 and DCS. Sure seems smoother to me but could certainly be placebo.

 

On 1/14/2021 at 8:24 AM, dburne said:

This is useful for applications with particularly poor performance that benefit instead from a fixed lower framerate for an overall smoother experience (e.g. sims). Note: These settings are only available to headsets which use SteamVR’s compositor (e.g. Index, Vive).

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by dburne

[Panzerlang]

So which is now the recommended runtime for IL2 with the G2, WMR or SteamVR?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Then why do they state Valve Index receives this benefit?  It certainly uses Steam VR. I use Open XR for MSFS2020, but I use Steam VR for IL-2 and DCS. Sure seems smoother to me but could certainly be placebo.

 

 

You misunderstood.

 

The Index/Vive does get the benefit from the update.

 

The G2 does not, the beta update doesn't change anything for G2 users.

 

The G2 runs motion repro better to begin with because it got the depth information (which is entirely MS' fault) while the Index/Vive did not get that yet. It had the advantage there, the Index now has various motion repro steps but still no depth information, thus creating more artifacts.

 

 

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/

 

[dburne]

I already saw a nice improvement in MSFS 2020 I was flying it earlier in the week.

Have been setting up my new controllers in all my sims, did that one first and been working on DCS yesterday and today.

I am also seeing an improvement " I believe" in it as well, have been able to up my gfx settings with Motion Smoothing locked at 45 fps in Steam VR and it is smooth and solid.   Even during colds start and taxi to catapult on the Super Carrier with several planes around. Two that were taking off whilst I was starting up.

Running my Reverb G2 at 100% resolution which is 3172x3100 per eye and the image is very nice.

 

Will be working on finishing up controller setup in IL-2 tomorrow and will be curious how it does as well.

 

 

 

[Panzerlang]

5 minutes ago, dburne said:

I already saw a nice improvement in MSFS 2020 I was flying it earlier in the week.

Have been setting up my new controllers in all my sims, did that one first and been working on DCS yesterday and today.

I am also seeing an improvement " I believe" in it as well, have been able to up my gfx settings with Motion Smoothing locked at 45 fps in Steam VR and it is smooth and solid.   Even during colds start and taxi to catapult on the Super Carrier with several planes around. Two that were taking off whilst I was starting up.

Running my Reverb G2 at 100% resolution which is 3172x3100 per eye and the image is very nice.

 

Will be working on finishing up controller setup in IL-2 tomorrow and will be curious how it does as well.

 

 

 

Where do you see motion smoothing? I can't see it in my settings.

Edit. Unless it's via the controllers and *in* the headset?

Edited January 15, 2021 by JG51-Hetzer

[dburne]

31 minutes ago, JG51-Hetzer said:

Where do you see motion smoothing? I can't see it in my settings.

Edit. Unless it's via the controllers and *in* the headset?

 

Steam VR settings per app.

If it is not listed you will need IL-2 running to see it listed.

You can also add a non-Steam game in there where it will show up without it running.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by dburne

[Panzerlang]

25 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Steam VR settings per app.

If it is not listed you will need IL-2 running to see it listed.

You can also add a non-Steam game in there where it will show up without it running.

 

Well that (45fps fixed) is nicer.

[Wolf8312]

I'm making the jump to 32 DDR4 (3600) RAM! Even if I don't actually notice a difference at least I will stop wondering if it would make a difference!

 

Have also bought a 2T external SSD. No space anymore with 3 FS's on my desktop SSD and MSFS is going to need a lot of terrain downloaded! Hopefully at some point the devs or someone will just release something from which or where it can all be downloaded cause presently the painting system is as tedious as it is time consuming! New gaming mouse too (so much smoother!) so an expensive computer season all in all, especially when you factor in the index! One final thing is a new GPU but none of the ones I have my eye on are out there for a reasonable cost. Think I can wait another year with these recent improvements though!

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Wolf8312

[Hoots]

I upgraded from 16 2400 to 32 3600 and there is a noticeable difference to me, haven't done any "scientific" testing so that's in no way scientific but all sims are much smoother.

[Wolf8312]

3 minutes ago, Hoots said:

I upgraded from 16 2400 to 32 3600 and there is a noticeable difference to me, haven't done any "scientific" testing so that's in no way scientific but all sims are much smoother.

 

I have 16GB of DDR4 (3200) RAM presently in my computer. Will it be possible to leave that in there leaving me with 48? They are not the same make though similar specs. Just thought I'd ask!

Edited January 16, 2021 by Wolf8312

[Wolf8312]

1 hour ago, Hoots said:

I upgraded from 16 2400 to 32 3600 and there is a noticeable difference to me, haven't done any "scientific" testing so that's in no way scientific but all sims are much smoother.

 

Another thing is I was getting alot of CTD's without error messages which people seem to think is a 16GB problem that having 32 will resolve.

[Panzerlang]

52 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Another thing is I was getting alot of CTD's without error messages which people seem to think is a 16GB problem that having 32 will resolve.

I had no such issues with 16GB. Can't say I've noticed any difference since going to 32GB either. 3600mhz Ripjaw stuff.

[Hoots]

3 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

I have 16GB of DDR4 (3200) RAM presently in my computer. Will it be possible to leave that in there leaving me with 48? They are not the same make though similar specs. Just thought I'd ask!

 

No idea really, sorry. I have a vague recollection that if you mix and match you get the performance of the lower RAM but don't hold me to that.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

5 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

I have 16GB of DDR4 (3200) RAM presently in my computer. Will it be possible to leave that in there leaving me with 48? They are not the same make though similar specs. Just thought I'd ask!

Unfortunately, no.

 

Never mix RAM, not even the same type. If you buy a new kit, don't mix it with other kits.

 

Also, more RAM isn't always better.

 

 

First, it depends on the Motherboard. If you have a Ryzen, check your Motherboard here: 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o

 

Scroll to the right and look for MEMORY -> MEMORY TOPOLOGY.

 

Daisy-Chain: Always use two DIMMs. Buy 2x16GB kits. Place in DIMM 2 and 4. Count from left.

T-Topology: Can use all four DIMMs. Buy 4x8GB kits. Place in all 4 DIMMs.

 

Buy one RAM kit according to your CPU. Ryzen 5600X, 5800X, or 5900X? Get RAM with 3600-3800MHz, CL16 or CL18 - but watch the subtimings. Avoid CL18-22-22-48 or similar high latency kits. Activate XMP, and make sure your FCLK is the same as the MCLK. Again: Do not mix kits. Do not buy two 2x8GB kits to get 4x8GB. (The secondary or tertiary timings are off, you'll get all kinds of nasty things like latency spikes, sub-second freezes, etc, performance loss overall, unable to use XMP profiles, etc.). Do not put 2x8GB kits into Daisy-Chain Topology boards (most X570) or face performance loss of 5-10% in quite a few applications due to running single-ranked (especially VR games and streaming situations as in IL-2, DCS, or MSFS2020, just to name a few relevant for us here).

 

Then profit. Follow this and you'll have Dual Ranked configuration, and get your 5-10% performance boost.

 

Mix kits or disregard topologies, and you'll even get performance losses.

 

 

P.S. A mistake people very often make is to buy 2x8GB and think "I can upgrade to 4x8GB later then by buying another kit, if needed".

P.P.S. Single/dual-ranked has nothing to do with single/dual-channel.

P.P.P.S. Good luck on your quest to hunt performance 

Edited January 16, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Hoots]

What he said  ^^

[unlikely_spider]

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf@Hoots

What if I did just that, a while ago? I have two different pairs of 8gb each, (meaning that one pair is even slower than the other) for a total of 32, and in addition they're both quite slow factory speed being that RAM was quite expensive at the time.

However I'm just wondering because I have a profile applied in the BIOS so that they are running at 3000mhz and 15-16-16-35, and quite stable.

Would it be any benefit to get rid of them and buy just one or two sticks that run natively at 3200mhz or so?

 

Is it any difference that they are mismatched vs getting matching pairs if the profile makes them run at the same speed anyway?

 

I've got a 5600x on an Asus Prime x470 pro.

Edited January 16, 2021 by unlikely_spider

[Hoots]

9 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf@Hoots

What if I did just that, a while ago? I have two different pairs of 8gb each, (meaning that one pair is even slower than the other) for a total of 32, and in addition they're both quite slow factory speed being that RAM was quite expensive at the time.

However I'm just wondering because I have a profile applied in the BIOS so that they are running at 3000mhz and 15-16-16-35, and quite stable.

Would it be any benefit to get rid of them and buy just one or two sticks that run natively at 3200mhz or so?

 

Is it any difference that they are mismatched vs getting matching pairs if the profile makes them run at the same speed anyway?

 

I've got a 5600x on an Asus Prime x470 pro.

Over to you fenris

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

5 hours ago, Hoots said:

Over to you fenris

 

Thank you Hoots  There is easily more than 10%-15% performance in for him in most titles (especially IL-2 in VR) by replacing his RAM correctly. Also much less frametime spikes.

 

Let's analyze:

 

Ryzen's FCLK depends on being in-sync with MCLK -> RAM speed is very relevant.

 

Dual Ranked 2666MHz CLx approx. equals Single Ranked 3200MHz CLx in performance -> We want Dual Ranked.

 

Asus Prime X470-Pro's memory topology is Daisy-Chain / Fly-By -> You will need one 2x16GB, in the second and fourth slot.

 

The 5600X in 99% hits 1900MHz FCLK very well -> The RAM should be running at 3800MHz (or at 3600MHz). 

 

If the Asus Prime X470-Pro runs the 5600X well at 2000MHz FLCK (google it, find experiences of users) -> RAM should be running at 4000MHz.

 

Latency of RAM should always be low or it mitigates the frequency -> CL 16. You want RAM with tight secondary timings (16-16-16-36 for example).

 

 

So, definitely new RAM. You got one foot on the brake at the moment.

 

Some SKUs as suggestions, by order of preference:

 

F4-3600C16D-32GTZN G.Skill Trident Neo Z 2x16GB 3600 CL16-16-16-36 , Samsung B-Die. Can easily overclock to 3800 CL-16-16-16-32 or even to 4000MHz. If you want to OC manually, get these.

 

F4-3600C17D-32GTZ G.Skill Trident Z silver/red 3600 CL-17-19-19-39 , probably Hynix. Can overclock to 3800, maybe with loosened timings (unless very lucky). More affordable, if you don't want to OC manually, get these.

 

F4-4000C19D-32GTZR G.Skill Trident Z RGB 4000 CL19-19-19-39 , Samsung B-Die. Same as the cheaper ones (first option), but clocked differently. You don't overclock manually, so you pay more. Needs to make sure the X470 Motherboard / 5600X CPU run 2000MHz FCLK.

 

 

I don't like Corsair's RAM, just their SSDs (MP600). XMP issues, sometimes no B-Die, even though you'd expect it. 

[unlikely_spider]

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf

Thanks very much for that analysis. I will look into those modules.

 

Edit- my motherboard clocks the ram to 3600mhz max according to the specs though?

Edited January 17, 2021 by unlikely_spider

[Ribbon]

13 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

Another thing is I was getting alot of CTD's without error messages which people seem to think is a 16GB problem that having 32 will resolve.

Using fpsVR lately i never seen ram usage goes above 10.5-11GB.

 

[Wolf8312]

53 minutes ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Using fpsVR lately i never seen ram usage goes above 10.5-11GB.

 

 

But does/can that show the ram usage when the game is loading up and one has selected overly high settings? Should be pointed out that this happens before I even get into the game (so I'm not sure I would even see an FPS count at that point) and is not so much related to FPS which I don't really expect the RAM to improve.

 

VR is kinda strange as well, as it seems to be possible to get a smoother experience without increasing FPS and vice versa! Might be wishful thinking on my part, but there are a hell of alot of people claiming that their game stopped crashing in exactly the same way mine is (on load up without error messages) when they upgraded to 32. I think they also said that it was possible to verify the source of the problem (RAM) by reading some system file or something (crash dump) though don't quote me on that! 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Wolf8312

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's not about the amount of RAM here, but speed in transferring data.

[Wolf8312]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It's not about the amount of RAM here, but speed in transferring data.

 

So are you saying 32GB over 16 wont make a difference?

[Wolf8312]

This update is really an incredible milestone. Performance is incredibly smooth now but not only that refresh rate can be cranked up to 144, shadows on, 110 SS on an index etc. This is by putting a fixed FPS of 30! One would think it would be an F'ing slide show but it is not in the least problematic (in the other sim) for myself and I find it to be very fluid. Sometimes think that by the time the hardware has caught up to the demands of VR, it won't matter anyway because these boffins will have so perfected reprojection. Fantastic the other sim now in VR. The new damage models with burning/smoking planes flying past as the go down, your airframe juddering (buttkicker) as you are peppered full of holes!

 

I just realized prop artifacts are still a thing with MS though! Don't know why I thought that this problem had been solved!

 

Anyway highly recommend the index!?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

15 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

So are you saying 32GB over 16 wont make a difference?

No, I didn't say that

 

16GB (mostly single ranked) doesn't have the same throughput as 32GB (dual ranked). But mind the topology. 4x8GB is not 2x16GB, even though both kits are dual ranked.

 

P.S. the problem with prop artifacts has been solved by IL-2 devs. Check my sticky thread for the instructions.

[Wolf8312]

12 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

No, I didn't say that

 

16GB (mostly single ranked) doesn't have the same throughput as 32GB (dual ranked). But mind the topology. 4x8GB is not 2x16GB, even though both kits are dual ranked.

 

P.S. the problem with prop artifacts has been solved by IL-2 devs. Check my sticky thread for the instructions.

 

Yeah sorry, I was actually refering to the sim who's name may not be uttered but I could have sworn it was fixed there too! Anyway gentlemen my RAM has arrived, so checkback later for some placebo "WHOA! IT WAS SMOOTH BEFORE BUT NOW! NOW IT'S SMOOOTH!"

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

If you didn't properly measure it before and after, how will you be able to objectively tell?

 

There's always preconceived bias and placebo doing the estimation then, either one way or the other.

 

For starters, check Chiliwili's performance tables, in the thread in the hardware section in which we gather performance results.

[Wolf8312]

40 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If you didn't properly measure it before and after, how will you be able to objectively tell?

 

There's always preconceived bias and placebo doing the estimation then, either one way or the other.

 

For starters, check Chiliwili's performance tables, in the thread in the hardware section in which we gather performance results.

 

Well to be honest main thing is I'm hoping MSFS will stop crashing to desktop on load up!

[blue_max]

hmmm let us know! I'm looking into my memory right now, but I think I'll try overclocking before buying new memory...

 

[Wolf8312]

Well haven't had enough time on it yet. Ironically as soon as I installed the RAM and got it up and running, MSFS informed me that there was an update that would fix crashes and instability so I guess I won't know now if it was the RAM or the update that fixed the problem (if it is indeed fixed)! Performance was dog turd at first but this is definately something that people should look out for as it improves massively after one flies around or restarts a few times.

 

So, all in all kinda hard to verify either way right now (hard too because of the steam VR update as well) but as insane as it may sound I feel better knowing I have 32 whatever happens! Just removes that nagging doubt. Also got the prop mod working finally, not sure why it didn't but that also just started working after a restart for some reason. I must say landing is quite easy after coming from the spitfire (in the other sim)! Anyway will fly to Manchester later and have another look gotta do some work now! I swear half my life is in settings menus or fixing or downloading things I never actually get to just fly! 

 

Have to say though as incredible as MSFS is, I have never known a modern game to have given me so much trouble outside of the game itself with downloads, and loading times and crashes and random freezes and things! Hopefully things will improve now its been patched or my new RAM works its magic.

[Wolf8312]

On 1/18/2021 at 7:32 PM, blue_max said:

hmmm let us know! I'm looking into my memory right now, but I think I'll try overclocking before buying new memory...

 

 

Well that update defo made the sim go haywire for me but with a fresh installation it also seems to have vastly improved stablity. I'd like to say it was the RAM and I am indeed getting no crashes, with very good performance using a fixed framerate, but more likely it was the update and a fresh install that did it. Can't be sure though, how's your (and everyones) performance recently after the update?

I think moving my installation drive might also have helped as well though as that was something I've seen recommended.

[slikslik]

Are any of us Pimax owners using the steam beta?  Any tips?  Thanks all..