New Virpil CM3 Throttle

[Varibraun]

On 1/31/2021 at 1:58 PM, Saiyon said:

Let's hope for delivery before this x55 completely gives up on me!

 

Well...after many years of faithful service, my x55 is just now giving me trouble too and I am thinking about going this direction.  I see the CM3 reflects "backorder" status on their website.  Did they give you any idea how long until they are able to ship?

[Varibraun]

On 1/27/2021 at 5:21 PM, dburne said:

Yeah my trusty Warthog throttle is now retired.

 

Don - Thank you for your time in posting/reviewing here.  With my old X55 throttle on its way out, I probably would have upgraded to the Warthog to match my Warthog joystick, especially since the CM3 is on backorder and I could have gotten the Warthog quickly (but for a hideous price).  However, your time spent here helped me decide that good things come to those who wait, and I just pulled the trigger on the CM3.  

 

Now, off to YouTube to see if I can field repair the X55 to hold me over since I didn't see any ETA on the backorder.  Does anyone have any insight in how long Virpil takes once it is in a backorder status?

[JG7_X-Man]

My trusty 'ol X-56 Throttle and I have been married for a few years now (6 I think) and I would love to find something I could replace it with, but there isn't one just yet. I guess the indention would be great for jets (ala DCS and MSFS) but for props we have here, I don't see the need to upgrade. Now - if there is someone here that disagrees, I am will to hear you.

 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

Don - Thank you for your time in posting/reviewing here.  With my old X55 throttle on its way out, I probably would have upgraded to the Warthog to match my Warthog joystick, especially since the CM3 is on backorder and I could have gotten the Warthog quickly (but for a hideous price).  However, your time spent here helped me decide that good things come to those who wait, and I just pulled the trigger on the CM3.  

 

Now, off to YouTube to see if I can field repair the X55 to hold me over since I didn't see any ETA on the backorder.  Does anyone have any insight in how long Virpil takes once it is in a backorder status?

 

You are most welcome.

I don't think it takes all that long, maybe couple of weeks to get invoiced and another week to ship.

Seems to be about the norm for them.

[marcost]

I ordered on the 1st Feb but they haven't invoiced yet. Hopefully soon!

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, marcost said:

Hopefully soon!

 

Was it on backorder status when you ordered too?  

[marcost]

Yes it was

[marcost]

Just got invoiced ?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, marcost said:

Just got invoiced ?

 

?

[Varibraun]

My invoice just came through this morning too.  Fingers crossed the delivery will go smoothly, I am currently controlling my throttle and RPM together on a rotary on my failing X-55 

[=LD=dhyran]

Hiho Gents,

 

just got my newest Virpil stick 

Was flying on Virpil since 2018, now order the Alpha Consalation R, orderd it at the 2nd January, credit card was charged early february, the stick arrived 14 days later

 

 

[No_85_Gramps]

Virpil's shipping methods have improved immensely. To the US they ship via FedEx, and for return shipments they use DHL. A far cry from the 45-60 day mailing times from a few years ago. It may cost a little more but it is well worth it.

[Varibraun]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:24 AM, Varibraun said:

My invoice just came through this morning too. 

 

On 2/26/2021 at 11:31 AM, No_85_Gramps said:

Virpil's shipping methods have improved immensely.

 

Notice this morning with a FedEx tracking #.  Nice turnaround time following the invoicing on Friday.  I will report back when it is in my hands (Lithuania to US East Coast).

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Varibraun said:

 

 

Notice this morning with a FedEx tracking #.  Nice turnaround time following the invoicing on Friday.  I will report back when it is in my hands (Lithuania to US East Coast).

 

?

You are in for a treat.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

Virpil has released control panels to go with their Mongoos throttle. Very impressive looking gear.

 

https://mailchi.mp/virpil/introducing-the-vpc-mongoost-50cm3-throttle-10879098?e=ca3180a2e3

[Varibraun]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:17 AM, dburne said:

You are in for a treat.

 

Arrived today!  Impressive 3 day priority shipping to US East Coast.  Now,  I just have to figure out what to do with it - too many choices...   

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Got the grip and gooseneck last month to mount on my Warthog base. I liked it so much I’ve thrown in for the whole lot: WarBRD base, CM3 throttle and a control panel. Backordered but I’m in the que!

[dburne]

7 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

Arrived today!  Impressive 3 day priority shipping to US East Coast.  Now,  I just have to figure out what to do with it - too many choices...   

 

Congrats!

 

[marcost]

Mine's arrived as well! Great feel to it and loads of buttons, sliders & options. No time to plug in yet though! Very happy so far.

 

Can't remember if I already said this but UK buyers be aware that you will pay an additional 20% of the Virpil webshop price as import (VAT) duty. 

 

Thanks for your help DBurne!

 

Regards,

 

M

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, marcost said:

Mine's arrived as well! Great feel to it and loads of buttons, sliders & options. No time to plug in yet though! Very happy so far.

 

Can't remember if I already said this but UK buyers be aware that you will pay an additional 20% of the Virpil webshop price as import (VAT) duty. 

 

Thanks for your help DBurne!

 

Regards,

 

M

 

You are most welcome, enjoy!!

[Varibraun]

On 1/6/2021 at 12:41 PM, dburne said:

I also got mounting brackets from Virpil to mount to my Monster Tech Mount with Warthog throttle plate, so saved me having to get 

another mount.

 

Hi Don - Were these the Virpil brackets that worked with your Warthog plate?

 

[dburne]

29 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

 

Hi Don - Were these the Virpil brackets that worked with your Warthog plate?

 

 

Yep that is them.

[Varibraun]

First impressions after a weekend with some flight time were VERY good.  I moved up from an X-55 throttle that had started to fail after many years of faithful service (so while I have a Warthog stick, I never had a premium throttle to compare), and for me the CM3 is certainly a major upgrade in feel and operation.  So much so, that I decided to pull the trigger on a Virpil T-50CM2 base (which unlike a throttle, I didn't actually need).

 

Since I use Voice Attack for a lot of "buttons" in VR, I haven't yet found a use for all the options the buttons and software provide, but I think there will be more use when I decide to map them for Elite Dangerous.  The pre-installed detent has worked well for my initial needs with IL-2.  It is an easy adjustment let you physically feel the edge of emergency power for each a/c. 

 

Here is another big thank you to everyone here and especially @dburne for great advice in these and other forums (he is everywhere, including Virpil BTW).  I think Don should change his forum photo:

 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Varibraun

[dburne]

35 minutes ago, Varibraun said:

First impressions after a weekend with some flight time were VERY good.  I moved up from an X-55 throttle that had started to fail after many years of faithful service (so while I have a Warthog stick, I never had a premium throttle to compare), and for me the CM3 is certainly a major upgrade in feel and operation.  So much so, that I decided to pull the trigger on a Virpil T-50CM2 base (which unlike a throttle, I didn't actually need).

 

Since I use Voice Attack for a lot of "buttons" in VR, I haven't yet found a use for all many options the buttons and software provide, but I think there will be more use when I decide to map them for Elite Dangerous.  The pre-installed detent has worked well for my initial needs with IL-2.  It is an easy adjustment let you physically feel the edge of emergency power for each a/c. 

 

Here is another big thank you to everyone here and especially @dburne for great advice in these and other forums (he is everywhere, including Virpil BTW).  I think Don should change his forum photo:

 

 

 

Lol - you are most welcome always glad to offer assistance whenever I can.

Enjoy that nice new throttle, I know I am!

[von_Tom]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:40 PM, Varibraun said:

 

Hi Don - Were these the Virpil brackets that worked with your Warthog plate?

 

 

Monstertech do a table mount plate for the Virpil throttles.  I ordered one as Virpil didn't have an eta for the brackets being received.

 

von Tom

[Algy-Lacey]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:51 PM, JG7_X-Man said:

I guess the indention would be great for jets (ala DCS and MSFS) but for props we have here, I don't see the need to upgrade. Now - if there is someone here that disagrees, I am will to hear you.

 

Personally I'm interested in the Virpil CM3 for Il-2 because of the indents (or are they referred to as detents?)

 

When I fly the Spitfire IXe in VR I am only really concerned with two throttle settings, 12 lbs boost at 2850 rpm, which I guess is Max continuous... and 18 lbs boost at 3000 rpm (Max with 5 min timer?). In VR I have to first zoom in to look at the boost gauge till I get 12 lbs and then zoom in to look at the r.p.m gauge and adjust the prop' till I get 2850 rpm which takes many seconds. In combat those seconds spent looking and zooming in the meantime completely losing situational awareness... well, it could mean death.

 

So yeah, having an adjustable detent on the throttle for 12lbs boost and on the other throttle (which I would use for the propellor r.p.m.) a detent for 2850 rpm would be amazing!

 

Algy-Lacey

Edited March 9, 2021 by Algy-Lacey
Indents / Detents??

[unlikely_spider]

4 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

Personally I'm interested in the Virpil CM3 for Il-2 because of the indents.

 

When I fly the Spitfire IXe in VR I am only really concerned with two throttle settings, 12 lbs boost at 2850 rpm, which I guess is Max continuous... and 18 lbs boost at 3000 rpm (Max with 5 min timer?). In VR I have to first zoom in to look at the boost gauge till I get 12 lbs and then zoom in to look at the r.p.m gauge and adjust the prop' till I get 2850 rpm which takes many seconds. In combat those seconds spent looking and zooming in the meantime completely losing situational awareness... well, it could mean death.

 

So yeah, having an adjustable detent on the throttle for 12lbs boost and on the other throttle (which I would use for the propellor r.p.m.) a detent for 2850 rpm would be amazing!

 

Algy-Lacey

I don't spend much time in the Spit, but are you sure that specific boost and RPM settings would correspond to the same axis position all the time? Aren't they somewhat dependent on other factors, such as each other, external air pressure, etc?

[Algy-Lacey]

1 minute ago, unlikely_spider said:

I don't spend much time in the Spit, but are you sure that specific boost and RPM settings would correspond to the same axis position all the time? Aren't they somewhat dependent on other factors, such as each other, external air pressure, etc?

 

That is a very good point that I hadn't thought of!

 

My guess would be that 18 lbs max boost is full throttle and the rest of the 'travel' of that throttle lever would be divided into fractions (1/18th) so half way forward on the throttle would be 9 lbs boost. And the same with Propellor R.P.M - Max would be 3000 rpm and the travel of the lever would be linear... half way forward would be 1500 rpm. That's just what makes sense to me, logically. When I get an oportunity I will test it out in game.

 

Now, the way a spitfire works, that is something else. I believe that the boost level takes into account air pressure at altitude, things like that. I'm no expert.

 

 

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

Personally I'm interested in the Virpil CM3 for Il-2 because of the indents (or are they referred to as detents?)

 

When I fly the Spitfire IXe in VR I am only really concerned with two throttle settings, 12 lbs boost at 2850 rpm, which I guess is Max continuous... and 18 lbs boost at 3000 rpm (Max with 5 min timer?). In VR I have to first zoom in to look at the boost gauge till I get 12 lbs and then zoom in to look at the r.p.m gauge and adjust the prop' till I get 2850 rpm which takes many seconds. In combat those seconds spent looking and zooming in the meantime completely losing situational awareness... well, it could mean death.

 

So yeah, having an adjustable detent on the throttle for 12lbs boost and on the other throttle (which I would use for the propellor r.p.m.) a detent for 2850 rpm would be amazing!

 

Algy-Lacey

 

 

Ok so they are referred to as Detents to set the record straight.

 

However I also must inform you, each throttle does not have it's own detent, one detent covers for one or both throttles. Not an individual detent for each throttle that can be positioned separately.

But yeah, they are really nice to have and having them adjustable plus 5 different styles to choose from is sweet.

And there is certainly things one can do in the Virpil software to do some axis tuning as well.

Edited March 10, 2021 by dburne

[Algy-Lacey]

13 hours ago, dburne said:

each throttle does not have it's own detent, one detent covers for one or both throttles. Not an individual detent for each throttle that can be positioned separately.

 

Ah ok. Thanks for replying. My lust for this bit of kit has just vanished.

I've decided I'm gonna have a go at modding my existing throttle. I have a Saitek 3 axis Throttle Quadrant. I was thinking that if I added a strong magnet to the lever and another one to the base, perhaps I could make my own custom detent?

 

My main concern is that the magnetic field might interfere with the electronics inside. Potentiometers and whatnot.

[dburne]

11 minutes ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

Ah ok. Thanks for replying. My lust for this bit of kit has just vanished.

I've decided I'm gonna have a go at modding my existing throttle. I have a Saitek 3 axis Throttle Quadrant. I was thinking that if I added a strong magnet to the lever and another one to the base, perhaps I could make my own custom detent?

 

My main concern is that the magnetic field might interfere with the electronics inside. Potentiometers and whatnot.

 

That is not to say one can't modify the axis tune in the VPC software to accomplish what you would like to accomplish for that particular axis.

But that is a little beyond my limited knowledge at this time.

[Algy-Lacey]

Right, got ya. Thanks for the info.

 

Now I've had this crazy idea for my Saitek throttle, I'm gonna run with it and see where it leads, could be a fun project!

[Varibraun]

1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Now I've had this crazy idea for my Saitek throttle, I'm gonna run with it and see where it leads, could be a fun project!

 

If you work it out, this post by @SCG_Fenris_Wolf might also be helpful to get you where you want to be, he specifically mentions the Spitfire.  Good Luck!

 

 

[Algy-Lacey]

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf Hello again Fenris_Wolf, just a quick question...

 

Does the physical position of the throttle lever always correspond to the same % throttle in game? (I am thinking of my Saitek throttle in this instance, no algebra or curves!)

 

Say, for the sake of comparison, half way forward on the physical throttle lever equates to 9 lbs boost in a Spitfire at sea level.

Will the same position of the physical throttle give the same amount of boost (9 lbs) at say, 6850 m / 22500 ft?

 

If it is a linear relationship then I will attempt to make my own custom detents for the throttle that I own using magnets because I am otherwise really happy with my Saitek Throttle Quadrant, it is a great piece of kit, it even looks a bit like a Spitfires throttle and has 3 axis, 6 buttons. If I am succesful then I will post about it in a new thread.

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 3/10/2021 at 5:10 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

@SCG_Fenris_Wolf Hello again Fenris_Wolf, just a quick question...

 

Does the physical position of the throttle lever always correspond to the same % throttle in game? (I am thinking of my Saitek throttle in this instance, no algebra or curves!)

 

Say, for the sake of comparison, half way forward on the physical throttle lever equates to 9 lbs boost in a Spitfire at sea level.

Will the same position of the physical throttle give the same amount of boost (9 lbs) at say, 6850 m / 22500 ft?

 

If it is a linear relationship then I will attempt to make my own custom detents for the throttle that I own using magnets because I am otherwise really happy with my Saitek Throttle Quadrant, it is a great piece of kit, it even looks a bit like a Spitfires throttle and has 3 axis, 6 buttons. If I am succesful then I will post about it in a new thread.

 

Without curves 50% throttle input gives 50% throttle output, which is then fetched by the game

 

What the game makes of it is different.

 

The end result is not linear, no. 

 

That is why I have made one curve per plane type.

 

If you make use of a detent then you need to adjust curves. 

 

Whether it is a moveable detent or not does not matter, you only need one setting and multiple ones won't help you, as you would not hit the precise percentage you want the game to receive anyway (e.g. 80% for max combat power in a 190, or xy% for max combat power in 109 F-z, etc.).

 

A detent is incredibly helpful. But set up your profiles. Look at my description on page 1 in this thread, I think anyone can do it easily.

 

Have fun

 

 

P.s. some planes' engines, but only a few, have strongly nonlinear behaviour indeed, and depend on speed and altitude. For these special cases detents aren't as useful.

Edited March 13, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[Algy-Lacey]

2 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

If you make use of a detent then you need to adjust curves. 

 

Whether it is a moveable detent or not does not matter, you only need one setting and multiple ones won't help you, as you would not hit the precise percentage you want the game to receive anyway (e.g. 80% for max combat power in a 190, or xy% for max combat power in 109 F-z, etc.).

 

A detent is incredibly helpful. But set up your profiles. Look at my description on page 1 in this thread, I think anyone can do it easily.

 

Have fun

 

I'm confused. Is it true that in a Spitfire, Max continuous is at, for example, 75% Throttle and 75% Throttle in game is always 3/4 or 75% of the physical throttle's travel?

If so, I can make my own detent at 75% travel of the physical lever (with 2 magnets) and, in a Spitfire, that will always give me Max continuous?

I think that I already no the answer, no!

 

I can understand, if the detents are not moveable, why you would need a curve, but not if I can set my detent where I like. I will keep re-reading your post on page 1 until I understand it. It wasn't your fault with the explanation, it is mine with inability to understand my maths is terrible!

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

If the throttle is 75%, the game input is also 75%. A curve using software changes that. So the detent at 75% can be game input at 80% if you want. That is why it is reasonable to have different software profiles (use Joystick Gremlin for example) for each type of plane.

 

You can write throttle setting on left paper, and write desired game output on right paper. The throttle setting for the left paper is where the detent is at. The game output on the right paper could be maximum combat power (lasts for 30mins).

 

Premise: Detent is fixed at 75%.

FW190A-3, A-5, A-6, A-8: Left paper (75% throttle). Right paper (86% throttle).

 

Now adjust curve accordingly and test result in-game. 

 

For Spitfire Mk5, P-40, P-39, etc. it doesn't work properly in any configuration though as their manifold pressure isn't properly regulated and changes a lot with speed and altitude.

[Algy-Lacey]

45 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Premise: Detent is fixed at 75%.

FW190A-3, A-5, A-6, A-8: Left paper (75% throttle). Right paper (86% throttle).

 

Now adjust curve accordingly and test result in-game. 

 

For Spitfire Mk5, P-40, P-39, etc. it doesn't work properly in any configuration though as their manifold pressure isn't properly regulated and changes a lot with speed and altitude.

 

So it's not possible for the Spitfire Mk5, what about the Spitfire Mk9?

 

Ok now I understand. I think. All I need to do is find out at what percentage of in game throttle equates to 12 lbs boost in the Spitfire Mk9 (my usual ride). Say that is at 82%. I use a marker pen to draw a line on my physical throttle at 82% throttle (checking the in game HUD as I go) and that is where my magnetic detents will be for combat power, which is not quite max continuous, but thereabouts (1 hour I think?).

 

I can see why you would need curves, every plane will have its' own throttle setting % for combat power or max continuous, loading a different curve profile for each aircraft means that you don't have to move the detent. Smart.

 

Thanks Fenris!

Algy-Lacey

 

 

[unlikely_spider]

2 hours ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

So it's not possible for the Spitfire Mk5, what about the Spitfire Mk9?

 

Ok now I understand. I think. All I need to do is find out at what percentage of in game throttle equates to 12 lbs boost in the Spitfire Mk9 (my usual ride). Say that is at 82%. I use a marker pen to draw a line on my physical throttle at 82% throttle (checking the in game HUD as I go) and that is where my magnetic detents will be for combat power, which is not quite max continuous, but thereabouts (1 hour I think?).

 

I can see why you would need curves, every plane will have its' own throttle setting % for combat power or max continuous, loading a different curve profile for each aircraft means that you don't have to move the detent. Smart.

 

Thanks Fenris!

Algy-Lacey

 

 

But still, remember that manifold pressure (governed by the throttle) changes even at constant throttle depending on external factors. Even if a fixed percentage on your axis equates to a fixed value in the sim, that doesn't mean the boost value remains constant. I'm not at home this weekend to test, but you can see if you keep your hands off the throttle, and climb a few thousand feet. Look at the manifold pressure and it should decrease. That's why planes needed superchargers to kick in at altitude.

 

RPM may be a different story, but even that I believe is somewhat influenced by manifold pressure (I'm not 100% on that, but it's also easily tested).

[Algy-Lacey]

2 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

But still, remember that manifold pressure (governed by the throttle) changes even at constant throttle depending on external factors. Even if a fixed percentage on your axis equates to a fixed value in the sim, that doesn't mean the boost value remains constant.

 

5 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

For Spitfire Mk5, P-40, P-39, etc. it doesn't work properly in any configuration though as their manifold pressure isn't properly regulated and changes a lot with speed and altitude.

 

unlikely_spider, I understand what you are saying, and I think that this ties in with what SCG_Fenris_Wolf has said about the Spitfire MkVb, P-40, P-39. Manifold pressure would change with differences in atmospheric pressure, but I would guess that some aircraft had mechanisms to compensate for that. Some in game testing is what's needed from me. I'm unfortunately still bloody waiting for the new internet connection to my house! I'm very much looking forward to downloading IL-2 again and getting back in the cockpit with my new rig.

 

Sorry for the way I've sidetracked this thread! Thanks for your help. I would still love a Virpil CM3, but if I can modify my Saitek Throttle Quadrant then that will do for the meantime.

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey