New Virpil CM3 Throttle

[dburne]

Has arrived. My thoughts on this new offering with 5 sets of detents will be coming later in this thread.

I also got mounting brackets from Virpil to mount to my Monster Tech Mount with Warthog throttle plate, so saved me having to get 

another mount.

 

Stay tuned...

 

[[FF]Saiyon]

Very keen to hear this as I am in market for a new hotas.

 

Can't decide to just go thrustmaster warthog or splurge on Virpil. I am currently running the X-55 and really hate the stick.

 

Also how long was it from order to deliver?

[von_Tom]

37 minutes ago, Saiyon said:

 

Can't decide to just go thrustmaster warthog or splurge on Virpil. I am currently running the X-55 and really hate the stick.

 

 

If you go desk mount I very much recommend the Virpil T-50CM2 base with an extension and a Warthog grip (or similar Virpil one), and VIRPIL throttle.  You can get the Virpil desk mounts as they're cheaper than the Monstertech ones.

 

I went from a Warthog to the Virpil and it is far superior in "feel" and accuracy, and I suspect its longevity is greater. The joystick base is customisable too so you can get the best feel for you.   Getting a Warthog may be a false economy if you are a keen virtual pilot.

 

Caveat:  Budget and costs/benefit allowing as getting them all will be around 1000 Euros including the desk mounts and extension, and that is a lot of money.

 

von Tom

Edited January 6, 2021 by von_Tom

[dburne]

Well crap I posted this in VR forum and meant to put in Hardware forum.

Can a Mod move this thread?

 

Trying to figure out now where to go and what to do to get this thing working. Have it mounted on my Monster Tech Mount now and all plugged in.

I downloaded and installed the latest software - just trying to find out now the steps I need to take to get this thing communication properly.

So far the Virpil software does not see anything. No instructions came with the device.

 

Edit: OK apparently it did not like the USB2 Port I had it plugged into, unplugged it and plugged it into my USB 3 Hub, and windows recognized it and sees it as a controller now. Just flashed the firmware so making some progress.

Edited January 6, 2021 by dburne

[Alonzo]

2 hours ago, Saiyon said:

Can't decide to just go thrustmaster warthog or splurge on Virpil. I am currently running the X-55 and really hate the stick.

 

I have Virpil hardware and I really like it. It's expensive, though.

 

Another option if you hate your X-55 stick is to get a VKB Gladiator stick. It's ~$120 and very well made, people like it. You could use that with your existing X-55 throttle unit.

 

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=gladiator-nxt

[Wolf8312]

Wow that's nice Dburne! Can't really justify the expenditure on a new throttle myself when a GPU is where my next upgrade will be focused (3080 probably though am waiting for price drops) but if my warthog throttle ever breaks I don't think I've seen a nicer throttle out there! Typically robust Virpil workmanship by the looks of things too. Congrats!

[cardboard_killer]

5 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

Another option if you hate your X-55 stick is to get a VKB Gladiator stick.

 

I love my Gladiator II; I keep thinking about getting a virpil or gunfighter III, but I like the gladiator so much I balk at changing it out.

[dburne]

Well she is flashed and calibrated  and everything working proper it seems. Tried out the different detents, think I am going to settle on the 

Classic Plus detents for now. Just trying to figure out now how to assign the LED lights and actually get them to stay on.

Should have plenty of flying time with the new throttle over the next several days, wife and I were exposed to Covid so we are going to self quarantine the next 10-14 days.

[TheSNAFU]

dburne, glad your getting on with your new controller. More importantly I hope you and the Mrs. stay free of COVID. 

[dburne]

1 hour ago, TheSNAFU said:

dburne, glad your getting on with your new controller. More importantly I hope you and the Mrs. stay free of COVID. 

 

Thanks much!!

[[FF]Saiyon]

I have looked at the VKB stuff, they don't have a  throttle though, and I can be a bit OCD with regards items being from the same eco-system and having the same styling etc.

[cardboard_killer]

9 minutes ago, Saiyon said:

I have looked at the VKB stuff, they don't have a  throttle though,

 

Any day now they will

 

The price of the new throttles seems to be a bit high from all companies. I would have thought a stick would be a much more difficult to engineer and thus pricier than a throttle, but I guess not. I'm cheap, so I use an old CH quadrant. The VKB Gladiator II base has sixteen buttons and two triggers (which double with shifting button) along with an throttle axis; combined with six switches and six throttles on the CH quadrant, I have plenty for WW2 purposes. If I flew jets, it might be different.

Edited January 7, 2021 by cardboard_killer

[[FF]Saiyon]

1 minute ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Any day now they will

 

Will keep an eye on that!!!

[dburne]

10 hours ago, Saiyon said:

 

Will keep an eye on that!!!

 

I was waiting on a VKB offering myself, but when Virpil came out with this CM3 with detents I could not resist.

However that is not to say if and when VKB does come out with their throttle, depending on features that I won't get one of those as well.

Edited January 7, 2021 by dburne

[NiiranenVR]

This mode 1-5 ..... Is this so you the buttons posible * 5 ?

[dburne]

All set up for flying now, been going in and assigning all my buttons and axis in my flight sims.

Will take a bit of getting used to from the old Warthog Throttle , I am sure liking what I am seeing so far.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, J5_NiiranenVR-Gfr said:

This mode 1-5 ..... Is this so you the buttons posible * 5 ?

 

Yes this is for the 6 mode buttons (those lit up in blue in pic) on throttle base, with 5 modes allow up to 30 commands to be assigned to those buttons.

I just turned the lights on for the picture, I normally just keep them off. They light up different colors depending on the mode one chooses. Mode 1 by default the lights are off.

 

Edited January 7, 2021 by dburne

[No_85_Gramps]

Wishing you the best with the new throttle! I have one of the originals that's about two years old, never a problem and still  works great.

[dburne]

2 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Wishing you the best with the new throttle! I have one of the originals that's about two years old, never a problem and still  works great.

 

Thanks!

I took it for a spin in the civilian flight sim this afternoon, simply because it was the easiest and quickest to get set up with the new throttle. Path of least resistance.

So far I am quite impressed with it, working on that muscle memory now to get the old Warthog layout out of my mind and the new CM3 layout into my mind.

Flying in VR that is important I reckon.

I have started my button assignments in IL-2 now as well so should be having a go with it here very soon.

[dburne]

I have run into my first issue with this great throttle. I was testing the different detents, and somehow the screw hole for the front (afterburner) detent has gotten messed up. The screw will only go down about half way, and can not lock the detent down. I have not tried to force it. I blew the hole out with throttle upside down in case a piece of debris might be in there. I also took a fine dental floss brush and rubbed it around in the threaded brass hole. Nothing I have done has helped.

 

I opened a support ticket with Virpil early yesterday morning. I had no problems at all changing out the rear idle/off detent, just the front one.

The screw will go in fine for about the first half of travel in that threaded insert, then it just stops hard. 

Not a major problem more of an annoyance, especially as it having those detents was the reason I purchased it. 

Other than that everything still working flawlessly and I continue to map my buttons in my three flight sims.

 

I would urge caution for new CM3 owners, take great care when screwing those detent screws in. Make sure it is going in cleanly and easily.

I will advise when I hear back from Virpil on my support ticket.

[Enzo38]

very nice setup you have here @dburne 

have you configure your rudder pedals with TC already ?

also does it needs one USB3 per controller (Grip, Rudder, Throttle) or is it only one with connectivity between them ?

[dburne]

20 minutes ago, Enzo38 said:

very nice setup you have here @dburne 

have you configure your rudder pedals with TC already ?

also does it needs one USB3 per controller (Grip, Rudder, Throttle) or is it only one with connectivity between them ?

 

Thanks!

My rudder pedals are MFG Crosswind, Throttle Virpil CM3, and stick VKB Gunfighter Mk III.

So separate USB for each device in my case.

[Enzo38]

thanks for your quick answer !

one more if i may ? I've seen a lot noise around delivery time for Virpil product, how was your experience in this regard ?

Order to Delivery is around 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month ?

Also the table mount is it Monster Tech ?

 

I'm in also to refresh all of this my old Saitek is due to retire 

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Enzo38 said:

thanks for your quick answer !

one more if i may ? I've seen a lot noise around delivery time for Virpil product, how was your experience in this regard ?

Order to Delivery is around 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month ?

Also the table mount is it Monster Tech ?

 

I'm in also to refresh all of this my old Saitek is due to retire 

 

I pre-ordered the throttle on 12/14. My credit card was charged on 12/18, and I received the throttle on 1/6.

Yes table mount is Monster Tech, I use an extended one for my Gunfighter Mk III stick and a standard one for the throttle. The standard one I had a Warthog throttle plate for it, so when I ordered the Virpil throttle I also ordered the Virpil adapter they offer that fits the Warthog mounting hole pattern, so I just simply removed my Warthog throttle and mounted the Virpil adapter to the Warthog plate, and then the Virpil throttle to it.

 

I can say this is one very, very nice throttle. And highly configurable with the Virpil software. 

Edited January 10, 2021 by dburne

[Enzo38]

many thanks @dburne quick delivery I can see, especially in this period.

definitely a wonderful kit, enjoy !

[dburne]

I had the following response from Virpil Support this morning regarding the issue with my afterburner detent.

I will be going to hardware store later today and will try and get slightly longer and slightly shorter screws and see which might work best for me.

Not a fan of option 2 ( cause I will not want to worry about removing and replacing detent as needed)  or option 3.

The main reason I bought this throttle was for the available detents and ability to change them out easily.

 

Quote

 

Hello,
about your problem i can offer some ideas:
1) try to use another bolt with more length, now 12mm you can use 14-16mm; if it to catch on a normal thread (deeper inside) - this solution will work forever.
2) you can try uses stainless D-3mm self screw - and it will cut new thread inside, but the self-tapping screw is not intended for repeated screwing / unscrewing.

 

3) and last one, send throttle back to us and we will fix it with new detail.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by dburne

[Panzerlang]

Dburne, did you get hit with customs charges etc?

[dburne]

1 hour ago, JG51-Hetzer said:

Dburne, did you get hit with customs charges etc?

 

No.

Mission Accomplished!

Just got back from Ace Hardware. First - I did not get any longer screw, I just could not fathom in my mind the reasoning with that suggestion, as I mentioned the screw would turn in 4.5-5 turns and then just come to a hard stop. 

 

They had a nice assortment of lengths in the same screw. I got two different lengths, one size shorter which was just a little, and another two sizes shorter in case the one size shorter was not short enough.

But it was - bingo! The one size shorter screwed in and locked that detent down nicely! I got extra screws also just in case.

 

So I am good to go with that forward detent in and operational once again. I guess the question will be how well will it will hold up as time goes on when I change them out occasionally for switching planes.  I won't worry about it unless it happens.

Now I can get back to mapping controls and flying rather than worrying with this !

 

[marcost]

hi dburne,

 

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm interested what your thoughts are after a couple more weeks with the CM3?

 

Regards,

 

M 

Edited January 27, 2021 by marcost

[dburne]

9 hours ago, marcost said:

hi dburne,

 

Thanks for starting this thread. I'm interested what your thoughts are after a couple more weeks with the CM3?

 

Regards,

 

M 

 

Well it has been a couple of weeks or so now.

I am really liking this throttle, very pleased with this purchase.

I was able to add idle and off buttons with the detent, to match up with the DCS Hornet. And I just put a small dead-zone in the game for the idle/off positions. And the afterburner detent I just adjusted it to where it would match up with the afterburner in the Hornet. So it is working great in that regard.

And the detents are very quick to remove should one be flying a plane and prefer not to have them.

 

Lots of buttons and even in the jet I still have buttons to spare. The rotary encoders are pretty cool also.

The flap lever is on an axis but I added buttons there too as well to have as needed depending on the plane being flown. The Virpil software allows some nice customizations that can be done.

 

I have been using this daily since getting it probably around 4 -5 hours each day. No complaints with it so far.

Don't know that would ever use those 6 mode buttons, which can give up to 30 button presses. Barely even using one. But they are there should I choose so.

Yeah my trusty Warthog throttle is now retired.

 

 

[marcost]

Hi,

 

That's great, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm going to put my name on the waitlist. Should be a major upgrade from my CH pro throttle.

 

Regards,

 

M

Edited January 28, 2021 by marcost

[[FF]Saiyon]

Well I have now diagnosed a hardware fault on my x55 throttle.

 

I am thinking of going full Virpil. I have seen the VKB offering and electronic detents do seem cool.

 

There is something about this Virpil throttle though I find myself drawn too.

 

Was your delivery to the UK by any chance? I might press the button tonight!

[[FF]Saiyon]

Well I just pushed the button on the CM3 Throttle, Warbrd base and Constellation grip.

 

More buttons than I should ever need.

 

Let's hope for delivery before this x55 completely gives up on me!

[dburne]

3 hours ago, Saiyon said:

Well I just pushed the button on the CM3 Throttle, Warbrd base and Constellation grip.

 

More buttons than I should ever need.

 

Let's hope for delivery before this x55 completely gives up on me!

 

?

 

Yeah you won't be hurting in the button department - or axis for that matter.

I can only comment on the CM3 Throttle - it is so very sweet!

[Asgar]

Have you found a good use for the encoders other than creating virtual axis from them? i tried encoder scroll and dial, buffered and unbuffered but it's super slow to change any kind of ingame axis with it like mixture or radiators. any way to speed it up?

[dburne]

22 minutes ago, Asgar said:

Have you found a good use for the encoders other than creating virtual axis from them? i tried encoder scroll and dial, buffered and unbuffered but it's super slow to change any kind of ingame axis with it like mixture or radiators. any way to speed it up?

 

I use them for things like adjusting HUD and HMD brightness in DCS, but yeah they are pretty slow.

 

[Asgar]

I'm experimenting with joytokey now to see if i can get it working a bit better

[kestrel79]

I use my encoders in IL2 on my Derek Spears Designs Black Maxx II button boxes for selecting bomb delay, bomb salvo selections, rocket delay, rocket salvo selections works pretty good for that!

 

Can probably also use them to tune radios in MSFS2020 or some fancy stuff in DCS for sure.

[dburne]

51 minutes ago, kestrel79 said:

I use my encoders in IL2 on my Derek Spears Designs Black Maxx II button boxes for selecting bomb delay, bomb salvo selections, rocket delay, rocket salvo selections works pretty good for that!

 

Can probably also use them to tune radios in MSFS2020 or some fancy stuff in DCS for sure.

 

Yep I use em in DCS.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Very nice throttle @dburne

 

I recommend vJoy with Joystick Gremlin. These allow you to map axis properly as well - you can use 1 detent, for each individual plane. 

 

Benefit? You set it up once and don't worry about where combat power is at, anymore. I can easily open the throttle or RPM limiter to the max combat power - without looking at the HUD, or if I don't have a HUD (like on TAW).

 

Spoiler

This way, for example, I have put "Max Combat Power" of the Bf-109 F-4 to my last detent. On the other profiles, I always have put Max Combat Power to the same detent. So how do you know what to put in? The shown axis is a relation of input to output. I forward Throttle's first and second axis to two vJoy axis, then add "Response Curve" to the vJoy axis. Game uses vJoy's axis as throttle input, and for RPM.

 

X = physical position of the detent

Y = output

Center is always at 50% in Gremlin.

 

The formula to use is easily seen: Target = Center + 0.5*X. In order to find X or Y, we flip the equation: X = 2*(Target - Center)

 

In this case,

 

The Physical Detent is at 91%, what value is needed in X? X = 2*(0.91-0.5)

Max Combat Power is at 80% (I use 1% tolerance), what value is needed in Y? Y = 2*(0.8-0.5)

 

X and Y for this example can be seen in the spoiler.

 

So, I use one detent which I never switch, and X is always 0.820 in each of my profiles. Each profile has another Y though - the Target always matched to Max Combat Power. 86% Combat Power? Y = 2*(0.86-0.5).

 

 

 

Examples: Flying the Spitfire, you can set the left lever to max RPM for Combat Power, and the right lever to max throttle for Combat Power.

 

99% of the planes are tied to the percentage ingame. Only a few with dynamic chargers, like the P-40 or P-39, aren't as trivial. And even in the F-4 or A-3, these things usually remain true: Even if the chargers don't pull enough ATA anymore at altitude, the RPM usually is the limiting factor then the limiter is actually what you control in German planes.

 

If you want, write the formula down, give Gremlin with vJoy a try, and enjoy it. It might take an hour or more to set everything up, but the benefit comes around tomorrow already.

 

 

 

P.S. You can also map the fuel setting on the third lever: The Mustang has automatic rich mixture and automatic lean mixture, also located along the way. You can set 100% of your physical lever to 70% for automatic rich mixture, for example. Each set per profile. You can load the profiles even ingame, just keep the game in (borderless) windowed mode to switch around quickly.

Edited February 11, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[dburne]

Thanks for all that @SCG_Fenris_Wolf.

That is probably a little more into software weeds than I care to get into.

I have my CM3 throttle set up good for my needs right now, and if I need to change anything these detents are very easily adjusted or removed quickly.