Valve Index vs Reverb G2, my view (with through the lens pictures)

[von_Tom]

On 3/19/2021 at 8:40 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

The Valve store has them for £460 plus £140 for a base station, new.

 

I recommend 2 base stations - 1 in front, 1 behind.  Otherwise you may lose some tracking when checking your 6.

 

Personally speaking, the G2 doesn't seem to offer enough to upgrade from the Index.

 

von Tom

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

15 minutes ago, von_Tom said:

 

I recommend 2 base stations - 1 in front, 1 behind.  Otherwise you may lose some tracking when checking your 6.

 

Personally speaking, the G2 doesn't seem to offer enough to upgrade from the Index.

 

von Tom

It's more of a sidegrade.

Advantages here, disadvantages there.

[Algy-Lacey]

Just a heads up for anyone interested in buying a Valve Index, the Steampowered Valve Store now has the full kit in stock once more...

https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex

 

I've just ordered a second hand Index from Ebay for a good price, should be with me on Thursday 29th April. I still have my new HP Reverb G2 in its box, hopefully by thursday I will have downloaded IL-2 and I will be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

 

For me it has all come together nicely, new internet connection is almost ready (line installed, now waiting for a new router), new gaming PC ready to go, newly updated IL-2 with my favourite Spitfire and now a Valve Index winging its way to me!

 

I will post my opinion on the relative merits of the two VR headsets when I'm all set up.

 

Cheers,

Algy-Lacey

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

Just a heads up for anyone interested in buying a Valve Index, the Steampowered Valve Store now has the full kit in stock once more...

https://store.steampowered.com/valveindex

 

I've just ordered a second hand Index from Ebay for a good price, should be with me on Thursday 29th April. I still have my new HP Reverb G2 in its box, hopefully by thursday I will have downloaded IL-2 and I will be able to do a side-by-side comparison.

 

For me it has all come together nicely, new internet connection is almost ready (line installed, now waiting for a new router), new gaming PC ready to go, newly updated IL-2 with my favourite Spitfire and now a Valve Index winging its way to me!

 

I will post my opinion on the relative merits of the two VR headsets when I'm all set up.

 

Cheers,

Algy-Lacey

 

I look forward to that comparison.

I have been so tempted to do the same, I just am too stubborn I guess to pay that extra money for the tracking system - and the setup of it.

Kind of spoiled with the simplicity of inside/out and no need for external cameras/sensors.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Tracking on the LH system is so vastly superior (if you play roomscale, for IL-2 only it does not matter) that I am using the Reverb G2 + Index Controllers.

[dburne]

Well I have placed an order this morning for the complete Index Kit from Steam.

Should be here within a week or less.

I have decided I want to have a go with the Index and hopefully if happy with it I will use for those made for VR games that I enjoy. First thing I will do is another play through of Half Life Alyx and also check out a mod or two for it. Really looking forward to checking out the Index Knuckles controllers with Alyx.

 

I will most likely continue with the Reverb G2 for flight and racing sims.

[Algy-Lacey]

19 minutes ago, dburne said:

I will most likely continue with the Reverb G2 for flight and racing sims.

 

If I had a RTX 3090 I would probably do the same!

My second hand Valve Index arrived today (2 days early) but I wont be able to test it out until our internet connection gets sorted and I can download IL-2 again. Also MSFS 2020. I look forward to some conversations with you dburne about the best configuration of the Index.

 

Happy Landings,

Algy-Lacey

[dburne]

I ordered these stands to mount the cameras for the Index on.

https://www.amazon.com/Skywin-Tripod-Compatible-SteamVR-Station-PC/dp/B07YP681D1/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=valve+index+base+station+stand&qid=1619528221&sr=8-5

[chiliwili69]

19 hours ago, dburne said:

I have decided I want to have a go with the Index

Good to hear that. As said, resolution is a bit worse but with your 3090 you can put good SS. Also the 80Hz mode helps.

Give it a try with IL-2 as well and decide.

Now next toy cold be this.  ? 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Good to hear that. As said, resolution is a bit worse but with your 3090 you can put good SS. Also the 80Hz mode helps.

Give it a try with IL-2 as well and decide.

Now next toy cold be this.  ? 

 

Lol thankfully that is one toy I have never been tempted with.

What Hz do you run your Index at with IL-2?

[dburne]

Got my tracking info  from Fed Ex.

Currently scheduled for delivery Saturday the 1st.

Not too much longer now.

[chiliwili69]

20 hours ago, dburne said:

What Hz do you run your Index at with IL-2?

 

I always use the 80Hz mode, which is the least demanding for the CPU. With that mode and my 3080 I use 140%SS and it is rare the case to be below 80fps (High settings, All maxed out except shadows high, mirror off, Canopy reflections off, clouds High, FXAAx2)

I tested the 90Hz mode but didn´t notice difference. But I only used the Index with IL-2 since I have not controllers.

I used the G2 to test Alyx, which is amazing, but not with the Index.

 

I have been always thinking to get the controllers, but the main rason for no getting them is that my kids (10 and 13 years) will want to play all sort of VR games and I don´t want them to get addicted to VR too early. But I allow them to play IL-2 from time to time.

[dburne]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I always use the 80Hz mode, which is the least demanding for the CPU. With that mode and my 3080 I use 140%SS and it is rare the case to be below 80fps (High settings, All maxed out except shadows high, mirror off, Canopy reflections off, clouds High, FXAAx2)

I tested the 90Hz mode but didn´t notice difference. But I only used the Index with IL-2 since I have not controllers.

I used the G2 to test Alyx, which is amazing, but not with the Index.

 

I have been always thinking to get the controllers, but the main rason for no getting them is that my kids (10 and 13 years) will want to play all sort of VR games and I don´t want them to get addicted to VR too early. But I allow them to play IL-2 from time to time.

 

 

Yeah again going into this my main line of thinking is using the Index and it's awesome tracking and controllers for made for VR games such as Alyx. I should be able to get some nice SS going for it with my rig.

I fully expect I will continue to use the Reverb G2 for my flight sims and occasional racing sim. I can run my Reverb G2 at 100% Steam VR resolution which for me is 3172x3100 per eye with no problem, with Motion Smoothing on and forced at 45 fps.

I hope to be able to get close to that with the Index for those made for VR games.

[SCG_Wulfe]

7 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I always use the 80Hz mode, which is the least demanding for the CPU. With that mode and my 3080 I use 140%SS and it is rare the case to be below 80fps (High settings, All maxed out except shadows high, mirror off, Canopy reflections off, clouds High, FXAAx2)

I tested the 90Hz mode but didn´t notice difference. But I only used the Index with IL-2 since I have not controllers.

 

 

The 80hz mode is fine and seems pretty comparable to most other headsets at 90hz due to the low persistence. What I do notice is that at 90hz the index has a very special presence that is not perceivable as anything, other than the motion and the 3d space feels very "real" ... It's entirely subjective but I notice it. 

Edited April 29, 2021 by SCG_Wulfe

[dburne]

3 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

The 80hz mode is fine and seems pretty comparable to most other headsets at 90hz due to the low persistence. What I do notice is that at 90hz the index has a very special presence that is not perceivable as anything, other than the motion and the 3d space feels very "real" ... It's entirely subjective but I notice it. 

 

Yeah I am hoping to be able to maintain 90 Hz with my Index, and use Motion Smoothing on and forced at 45 fps as I do with my G2.

Maybe with enough SS I can get it close to G2 quality, will see. Though I do not know how well I am going to see SDE with the Index. It is pretty much non existent in the G2.

 

I will tell you though based on some feedback I have seen on another forum, I am not sure I have the best G2 in the QA department as far as visuals. That may also play a factor in comparing with the Index.

 

Interestingly I remember early on shortly after getting the G2 setup and running with the flight sims, I had one flight where everything - and I mean everything - was crisp and sharp as a tack. I was so impressed. But for whatever reason it only happened that one time, have not seen it look that good since. I had decided it must have been my mind playing tricks on me or something.

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by dburne

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Check the lense frames in the G2 headset themselves. They're a bit wobbly. Just pushed them in. Hmmm 

 

Also, make sure to check quality in other games than IL-2. Changing headsets with IL-2 is somewhat problematic, as it is incredibly inconsistent. You'll want to push IPD forth and back, and restart IL-2. To see if the headset is crisp, compare it in the SteamVR Home environment or in a game like Boneworks or Onward. Everything is consistent there.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Check the lense frames in the G2 headset themselves. They're a bit wobbly. Just pushed them in. Hmmm 

 

Also, make sure to check quality in other games than IL-2. Changing headsets with IL-2 is somewhat problematic, as it is incredibly inconsistent. You'll want to push IPD forth and back, and restart IL-2. To see if the headset is crisp, compare it in the SteamVR Home environment or in a game like Boneworks or Onward. Everything is consistent there.

 

Hmm will check the frames.

Yeah I do several games and see the same in them for the most part, at least it is not just IL-2.

[unlikely_spider]

Just an FYI - often when putting my headset on for the first time in a day it seems the IPD slider has moved. I think it "migrates" towards the center or towards the wider IPD setting. I haven't put tape on it yet to hold it in place, but I'm not sure of the cause yet.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Yeah I feel you need to move the IPD slider each time after having started up IL-2. So by now, I always do that.

[kissTheSky]

33 minutes ago, unlikely_spider said:

Just an FYI - often when putting my headset on for the first time in a day it seems the IPD slider has moved. I think it "migrates" towards the center or towards the wider IPD setting. I haven't put tape on it yet to hold it in place, but I'm not sure of the cause yet.

I’ve noticed the same with my G2. I figured, I must be touching the dial by mistake when taking it off. 

[dburne]

Yeah I keep a check on that IPD slider as well. 

[Stolle]

11 hours ago, dburne said:

 

 

Yeah again going into this my main line of thinking is using the Index and it's awesome tracking and controllers for made for VR games such as Alyx. I should be able to get some nice SS going for it with my rig.

I fully expect I will continue to use the Reverb G2 for my flight sims and occasional racing sim. I can run my Reverb G2 at 100% Steam VR resolution which for me is 3172x3100 per eye with no problem, with Motion Smoothing on and forced at 45 fps.

I hope to be able to get close to that with the Index for those made for VR games.

How are you getting it to set at 3172x3100 at 100%? My G2 used to show that resolution but now shows 2112x2056 at 100% in Steam VR Home.(Using Steam VR Beta) I also get the impression that it is not as sharp as it was when I first got it.

[dburne]

9 hours ago, Stolle said:

How are you getting it to set at 3172x3100 at 100%? My G2 used to show that resolution but now shows 2112x2056 at 100% in Steam VR Home.(Using Steam VR Beta) I also get the impression that it is not as sharp as it was when I first got it.

 

Not real sure I just checked and mine still shows the same it always has  3172x3100 at 100%.

I also am running Steam VR Beta.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Might be that he is not running the "Mixed reality for SteamVR" plugin.

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Might be that he is not running the "Mixed reality for SteamVR" plugin.

 

Yeah that would make sense good point.

[Stolle]

Thanks for your replies. I am also running "Mixed Reality for SteamVR"(Beta).  

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Stolle said:

Thanks for your replies. I am also running "Mixed Reality for SteamVR"(Beta).  

 

That is very strange your 100% Steam VR resolution would be that much lower than what others are getting.

[SCG_Wulfe]

20 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Yeah I am hoping to be able to maintain 90 Hz with my Index, and use Motion Smoothing on and forced at 45 fps as I do with my G2.

Maybe with enough SS I can get it close to G2 quality, will see. Though I do not know how well I am going to see SDE with the Index. It is pretty much non existent in the G2.

 

 

Ya, if need be, you can run at 45 fps. But try it without first. The artifacts from running at half resolutions are definitely still not perfect and your presence/feel of really being there suffer significantly I find. Honestly, I find the Index plenty sharp at 140%SS with FXAA x4. 

 

With that, I am able to run Ultra Shadows, High Clouds, and High Preset. 

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by SCG_Wulfe

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Ya, if need be, you can run at 45 fps. But try it without first. The artifacts from running at half resolutions are definitely still not perfect and your presence/feel of really being there suffer significantly I find. Honestly, I find the Index plenty sharp at 140%SS with FXAA x4. 

 

With that, I am able to run Ultra Shadows, High Clouds, and High Preset. 

 

 

Motion Smoothing on and forced at 45 fps looks really good to me.

Just occasional artifacts but overall the experience is really nice and graphics settings really high,  at least with the G2.

 

[Stolle]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

That is very strange your 100% Steam VR resolution would be that much lower than what others are getting.

I figured it out. I had to change the render resolution in SteamVR from Auto to Custom. and now it shows 3188x3100 at 100%. 
Unfortunately, my system cannot handle that so I switched it back to Auto and a lower resolution. (2112x2156 at 100%)

[dburne]

1 hour ago, Stolle said:

I figured it out. I had to change the render resolution in SteamVR from Auto to Custom. and now it shows 3188x3100 at 100%. 
Unfortunately, my system cannot handle that so I switched it back to Auto and a lower resolution. (2112x2156 at 100%)

 

Probably best to do it custom rather than auto. Auto is still going to adjust your resolution depending on the situation.

Custom will be a fixed resolution, you can lower that to around 50% or whatever gives you the same numbers.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Probably best to do it custom rather than auto. Auto is still going to adjust your resolution depending on the situation.

Custom will be a fixed resolution, you can lower that to around 50% or whatever gives you the same numbers.

What @dburne said. Otherwise you'll encounter inconsistent graphics.

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

On 4/30/2021 at 4:04 AM, dburne said:

 

Interestingly I remember early on shortly after getting the G2 setup and running with the flight sims, I had one flight where everything - and I mean everything - was crisp and sharp as a tack. I was so impressed. But for whatever reason it only happened that one time, have not seen it look that good since. I had decided it must have been my mind playing tricks on me or something.

 

 Re: Crisp G2

What AA settings are you running with IL2 and the G2?  If i want sharp, i have to run MSAA x2  at 100% Steam VR.

It is................................ glorious

 

Obviously have to compromise on other IL2 settings if I want to maintain good frame rates when using MSAA.  In my case, cloud detail to low and shadow to medium settings.

 

If i do not have MSAA x2  set I see significant shimmering, especially in distant cities/towns.

 

[dburne]

7 minutes ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

 Re: Crisp G2

What AA settings are you running with IL2 and the G2?  If i want sharp, i have to run MSAA x2  at 100% Steam VR.

It is................................ glorious

 

Obviously have to compromise on other IL2 settings if I want to maintain good frame rates when using MSAA.  In my case, cloud detail to low and shadow to medium settings.

 

If i do not have MSAA x2  set I see significant shimmering, especially in distant cities/towns.

 

 

100% Steam VR resolution and 2x MSAA though I don't find it necessary.

It is not just IL-2 though.

[dburne]

Index is out for delivery via Fed Ex.

Hopefully not too much longer now. This is going to be interesting.

Got my camera stands set up in diagonal in my room ready to go, now just need the Index.

C'mon Fed Ex. Anticipation...

Edited May 1, 2021 by dburne

[dburne]

Ok so got everything set up yesterday evening, however spent a lot of time with it - one controller was giving me grief updating the firmware but finally got it to take. Not much time for any good testing yesterday but should get some in today.

 

Initial very early impression:

FOV is going to be nice. Definitely see an improvement here, and I am even half blind I only see left of center- I can imagine how good it would be if I had full range of eyesight. Definitely a larger display in both horizontal and vertical.

Sweet spot seems bigger than G2. 

Comfort - not very comfortable for me. Heavy, and when I adjust it on my head does not feel like it has much of a cushioning effect. I have ordered a VR Cover for it and it will be here Tuesday. I really like the VR Cover on my Reverb G2 so hoping this helps the comfort issue with the Index.

Tracking - as expected I think it is going to be superb and second to none. Especially controller tracking.

Audio - like the G2 which has the same speakers, I did not much care for it. I much prefer earbuds so that is what I will use also with Index. At least it does have a headphone jack in the headset which makes it nice. G2 I use extended earbuds plugged into my Creative Sound on my motherboard as the headset does not have an audio jack. I will try Index audio through headphone jack and compare it with my Creative sound.

 

Giving the controllers a good charge this morning, should be able to get some good gaming time in with it today. That is where the rubber will meet the road for me.

 

 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

The Index Controllers are without equal. I use them for my Reverb G2 even, absolute great piece of equipment.

[dburne]

Did not get time yesterday to do any flight sims with the Index, got too wrapped up in Half Life Alyx most of the day. Index really shines in that game.

And that tracking in the Index, absolutely incredible. Kind of nice not having to run WMR as well.

I am running Alyx at 120 Hz, Ultimate Graphics and 180% SS and it handles it quite well. Overall resolution still little lower than Reverb G2 in Steam VR , but it looks really good. It is still taking me a little time to adapt to the Knuckles controllers but I am sure I will get there. 

 

I am still thinking I will prefer Reverb G2 for flight sims, and Index for those made for VR games that utilize controllers. Which would be fine as that is what I had in mind when I finally decided to get an Index. Will see though, have a round of golf on the schedule today so may be tomorrow before I can wring it out good with a flight sim. That FOV and larger sweet spot though with the Index is oh so sweet.

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by dburne

[chiliwili69]

On 5/2/2021 at 2:35 PM, dburne said:

Comfort - not very comfortable for me. Heavy

 

Yes, the Index is much heavier than g2. These are two mods I made to have better comfort:

 

 

[dburne]

Ok so the verdict is in for me with the Index and my flight sims.

I spent the afternoon flying in my Hornet Campaign in DCS.

 

I will be using my Reverb G2 for flight sims. Granted the Index was not bad, and the FOV is really nice to have in flight sims, I mean really nice. Plus that larger sweet spot. However I just don't get that really sharp clarity in the cockpit that I get with my Reverb G2. And that makes a difference for me. I even upped the SS to 220% trying to get it there, but it just was not. It was somewhat close, but the G2 clarity still beats it. I also noticed more shimmering in the distance and more ghosting of planes as they fly by with the Index  which was interesting. The clouds danced around a lot which was not as bad in the G2, maybe be a bug with DCS and the canted displays of the Index perhaps - I am sure they will get that sorted. The clouds are all new with this latest update to DCS.

 

Ok so I am not disappointed though, I had a feeling this would be how it would end up from the start. If I only used VR for flight sims, I would be very disappointed. However this Index really shines for those made for VR games that utilize the controllers. Half Life Alyx is gorgeous in it, love the larger FOV, and the awesome tracking of the controllers. I am sure I will like it as much with other VR games I play - will be doing another Medal of Honor Above and Beyond playthrough when done with Alyx. Going to check out Boneworks as well.

 

The only negative with going back to the Reverb G2 for flight sims will be losing that better FOV of the Index. And the larger sweet spot.  Now that I have seen it I want it lol.

I do a lot of flight simming but I will also being doing a lot of VR gaming with the Index. So I am glad I have it.