G2 Resolution

[dburne]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

So then you recommend to run the G2 at 100%?  right? (if GPU can handle it)

 

 

 

I think if someone has a beefy system and wants to give it a try it is at least worth the comparison.

I expect running with Motion Smoothing on maybe affects folks differently than others. I was surprised how good it was and so far does not really bother me.

I left it at 100% for all my flying in PWCG campaign yesterday and so far am pretty pleased. I did reach 90 fps at times in a mission where I had clear skies.

[shirazjohn]

7 hours ago, JG1_Greif said:

As a G1 owner considering to upgrade to a G2: can you indicate what the main differences in experience are for you? And even though budget is heavily dependent on personal situation, would you say it was worth the investment?

 

I can give my opinion based on the way i like to play the game.

 

I prefer to adjust the game and headset settings to give the most immersive and realistic experience, that hopefully resembles flying one of these WW2 aircraft. I only play single player mode so I am not worried about a competitive edge. I have most of the graphics settings set to high or extreme, FXAA x4. For me to make the experience believable I need to have the image as sharp as possible, minimal shimmering and aliasing. I am happy If I can achieve around 60 fps even though this will lead to a few stutters, its still preferable to the degraded image quality with lower settings. ( my current system is , Ryzen 3700x, ddr4 3200 and 1080ti, I currently have a 5600x on order)

 

The above is why I chose the G1 as my first headset which I have been very happy with apart from the cable reliability issues.  

 

When I first tested the G2 I was disappointed as the image sharpness didn't seem any better than the G1 (SS 50% 2236x2188) but after testing at 100% 3162x3093 (which is apparently what it is supposed to run at) the image sharpness is definitely an improvement over the G1, the sweet spot is slightly improved and clarity towards the edges is much better if still a little  blurred.  I find at this resolution the shimmering and aliasing is almost eliminated ( very little AA needed if any), identification of aircraft also becomes must easier also but at a distance I find spotting harder as they no longer look aliased but just tiny dots but I think this is probably realistic. I think anything below about 70% SS and it doesn't look any better than the G1.

 

All this comes at a cost though my fps is down to the mid 40's with my current system so until I upgrade I cant really run at this resolution.

 

Anyway to point is it worth the upgrade from the G1. For me yes with a cpu/gpu upgrade there is the potential to run it at a similar or higher fps to the G1 but with much better visual quality I also I find the tracking is much better, I have been playing a couple of hours a night for a week and it hasn't lost tracking once.

The sound is without doubt much better.

 

Sorry if I rambled on a bit but I hope it helps.

[dburne]

@shirazjohn

 

Have you tried enabling Motion Smoothing and running with it? Might can maintain 45 fps with reprojection and eliminate some stutters.

 

 

 

[shirazjohn]

9 minutes ago, dburne said:

@shirazjohn

 

Have you tried enabling Motion Smoothing and running with it? Might can maintain 45 fps with reprojection and eliminate some stutters.

 

 

 

Hi yes I have tried motion smoothing in the past but I never really liked it , I'm not keen on the warping/bending on the wings.

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

Hi yes I have tried motion smoothing in the past but I never really liked it , I'm not keen on the warping/bending on the wings.

 

Ok, you might want to try again with the G2 if you have not.

I have been running IL-2 hard for the past two days with it on, and am pretty pleased. Running 100% video, which is like 3172x3100.

In fact for all of today I ran it with Motion Smoothing forced on, so I was always at 45 fps.

The game is gorgeous and I only see some occasional artifacts. Looking pretty good to me, however I will state I am half blind.

[shirazjohn]

16 minutes ago, dburne said:

 

Ok, you might want to try again with the G2 if you have not.

I have been running IL-2 hard for the past two days with it on, and am pretty pleased. Running 100% video, which is like 3172x3100.

In fact for all of today I ran it with Motion Smoothing forced on, so I was always at 45 fps.

The game is gorgeous and I only see some occasional artifacts. Looking pretty good to me, however I will state I am half blind.

I think your right i will give it another go, the only thing I've found is i don't seem to be able to enable it in the per application video settings using the mouse.  The only way to turn it on is with the hand controller in steam vr home which is a pain, i dont normally use the hand controllers at all with il2.

[dburne]

3 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

I think your right i will give it another go, the only thing I've found is i don't seem to be able to enable it in the per application video settings using the mouse.  The only way to turn it on is with the hand controller in steam vr home which is a pain, i dont normally use the hand controllers at all with il2.

 

Not sure why you can not use mouse? In WMR you have have to hit windows key + Y to enable mouse on desktop.

That is how I do it.

Edited December 9, 2020 by dburne

[shirazjohn]

Sorry probably didn't explain that right , if i enable motion smoothing in the drop down menu on the video / per application setting/il2 it doesn't do anything it only works with the headset on using the hand controller in steam vr home. I think i nedd to play around a bit more probably doing something wrong.

[dburne]

1 minute ago, shirazjohn said:

Sorry probably didn't explain that right , if i enable motion smoothing in the drop down menu on the video / per application setting/il2 it doesn't do anything it only works with the headset on using the hand controller in steam vr home. I think i nedd to play around a bit more probably doing something wrong.

 

Yeah something sounds off there, not sure what to tell ya. Working fine on my end.

I make all my settings in that Steam VR settings panel on the desktop.

[41Sqn_Skipper]

29 minutes ago, shirazjohn said:

Sorry probably didn't explain that right , if i enable motion smoothing in the drop down menu on the video / per application setting/il2 it doesn't do anything it only works with the headset on using the hand controller in steam vr home. I think i nedd to play around a bit more probably doing something wrong.

 

Yes, you need to enable motion smoothing in the dashboard of the steam vr home. But you have to do this only once, there's an option to use the "per application setting". From then on you can use the normal Steam VR settings window to enable/disable it for IL2.

[shirazjohn]

Ahh thankyou for that i will have a play around with that tomorrow. 

[[CPT]Crunch]

It won't apply until you restart IL-2.

[Guest deleted@134347]

16 hours ago, dburne said:

In WMR you have have to hit windows key + Y to enable mouse on desktop.

That is how I do it.

 

btw, if like me this win+Y is driving you crazy you can disable the mouse lock here:

 

set it to Manual here:

Settings > Mixed Reality > headset display > Input switching > Manual

 

after that it'll never lock the mouse up, it'll behave like rift/vive/non-wmr headset.

[dburne]

12 minutes ago, 69th_Didney_World said:

 

btw, if like me this win+Y is driving you crazy you can disable the mouse lock here:

 

set it to Manual here:

Settings > Mixed Reality > headset display > Input switching > Manual

 

after that it'll never lock the mouse up, it'll behave like rift/vive/non-wmr headset.

 

Yeah I did the same a day or two ago.

[chiliwili69]

21 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

he sweet spot is slightly improved and clarity towards the edges is much better if still a little  blurred

Thanks for your comments, but just a note.

 

Sweet spot has two definitions. Most frequently people refers to sweet spot to the area that you can see clearly by only moving the eyes, not the head. So this is equivalent to "clarity towards the edges".

 

The G1 had for a me a very small sweet spot and I had to move the head to have better focus of what I was looking. So, I expect a sweet spot along the bar set by the Index.

21 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

I think anything below about 70% SS and it doesn't look any better than the G1.

That´s good to know. It should be then a must to be in 80% to 100% depending on GPU.

[Charlo-VRde]

On 12/9/2020 at 1:45 AM, chiliwili69 said:

 

The CPU is responsible to build the scene. Where every object should be for the point of view of the user.

Shadows and mirrors are based on the geometry and position of the objects of the scene, and these are calculated by the CPU.

That´s why the impact of the settings of mirrors and shadows load more the CPU.

As you know the VR loads heavily the CPU since scene has to be calculated twice. So a better GPU will not help in raising settings of mirrors or shadows.

 

I made this post sometime ago with the old benchmark, but I think it is pretty valid as a guide:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/57586-performance-impact-of-every-graphics-option/

 

 

 

So then you recommend to run the G2 at 100%?  right? (if GPU can handle it)

 

In order to know what is limiting you from being at 90fps, I would recommend to use fpsVR. I think it is a great tool to know in every moment if you are GPU or CPU bounded while you are playing the game. Instead of looking at the fps counter of IL-2.

Yes, it is a paid tool, but it is really cheap and worth.

 

You know, clouds are basically loading GPU (and CPU a little).

 

Hey, having a 3090 it is a crime to run STeamVR SS at 50% with G2. You will not be getting the full clarity of the G2.

Your GPU can handle more than that for sure if you don´t use MSAA. And perhaps tune the clouds settings.

If you run fpsVR while you are playing you will see if your constraint is GPU or CPU.

 

You and @dburne were right again, and I am very much enjoying my G2 at 100% SteamVR with no AA at all and Shadows on Ultra. Fenris also recommends Shadows on Ultra to help with spotting, and I think that also eliminated some invisible ground targets that were firing at me in Quick Missions. These settings also significantly reduce any ground shimmering and wire shimmering, even in FC.

 

I had been looking for that old benchmark of yours, and since I never did rely on mirrors with my old Titan X GPU  it was a no-brainer for me to keep those turned those off to help my frame rates.

 

I also bought fpsVR, and that's a super informative utility. Oddly, I usually see 90 fps in 8 against 8 Quick Missions, but the same settings in MP always show I'm locked at 45 fps. ? 

 

Also, fpsVR indicates I'm using 10.8 to 11.5 GBs of my VRAM.

[shirazjohn]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

Thanks for your comments, but just a note.

 

Sweet spot has two definitions. Most frequently people refers to sweet spot to the area that you can see clearly by only moving the eyes, not the head. So this is equivalent to "clarity towards the edges".

 

The G1 had for a me a very small sweet spot and I had to move the head to have better focus of what I was looking. So, I expect a sweet spot along the bar set by the Index.

That´s good to know. It should be then a must to be in 80% to 100% depending on GPU.

 

Hi chilli after what you said about the sweet spot I have been doing some more tests.  I have been using the P38J as a benchmark viewing the Flaps warning sign, coolant and carb air signage as a reference, and at 60 % ss the flaps warning sign is readable but not clear when looking directly at it, if I look right (just moving my eyes) at the coolant, carb signs they are not readable at all. If I turn head my until an object outside the cockpit is just on my periphery it will be blurred until I look almost directly at it . I then tested at 100% ss  and the flaps warning sign is perfectly sharp , again just moving my eyes I can now read the coolant , carb air sign but it is slightly blurred. Looking at the object outside again I only have to move my head another 10-20 degrees before it becomes clear. These tests were sat on the runway without leaning forward.

 

I hope this makes sense.

Edited December 10, 2020 by shirazjohn

[chiliwili69]

12 hours ago, Charlo-VR said:

Also, fpsVR indicates I'm using 10.8 to 11.5 GBs of my VRAM.

 

Good to see you are now enjoying the full clarity of the G2 at 100%.

 

Regarding the VRAM, you know I was making some test in another thread, but I could not reproduce those high allocation of VRAM.

But is was VRAM allocated, not real usage.

 

Now it seems that MSI Afterbuner is able to show the real memory usage per process:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/iypqwi/vram_usage_as_reported_by_task_manager_new_msi/

 

So, if you have MSI Afterburner (free tool) you can trend your real VRAM usage.

 

10 hours ago, shirazjohn said:

Looking at the object outside again I only have to move my head another 10-20 degrees before it becomes clear.

 

Yeah, it is good to use some fixed text, like the P-38J you used, to really see how blurred it is at different SS levels. So, the 50 vs 100% resolution is not a bug. It has to be set at 100% to get the intended clarity of the device. The problem is that this is a huge cost for the GPU. Probably values between 80%-100% will be tolerable for less capable GPUs.

 

The good thing is that MSAA is not needed at those superhigh resolutions (perhaps just some 2xFXAA) and the GPU is less loaded.

 

So the questions is now, what GPU is good enough to run IL-2 VR with G2 at 100%?  (this is the VR Test2 of the SYN_VAnder). Soo far only Charlo-VR with a 3090 has run it. And he was botllenecked by CPU, but achieved 75fps which is quite good.

 

It would be good if other people with 3080 or 6800XT or 2080Ti can run the test as well

[MarcAnton]

Guys Il-.2 shows to green Numbers in the right upper corner - 45 and 90 - FPS ? Hz ? what does it mean ?  

[-332FG-Gordon200]

3 minutes ago, MarcAnton said:

Guys Il-.2 shows to green Numbers in the right upper corner - 45 and 90 - FPS ? Hz ? what does it mean ?  

The top number is frame per second and the bottom number is field of view.

[41Sqn_Skipper]

4 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

It would be good if other people with 3080 or 6800XT or 2080Ti can run the test as well

 

I have a RTX 3070, so similar to 2080TI. I'm not RAM or CPU bottlenecked (at least according fpsVR CPU is bored at only 10%-20%). My benchmark is a 8vs8 on Rheinland at heavy clouds and involves flying over a city. I'd consider this to be close to the worst-case.

 

I tried 90fps and 100% yesterday. It might be possible if you extremely tune down graphics. No shadows, low clouds, ... In the end you can cristal clear see the all the ugliness 

 

At medium settings stable 60fps and 80% are possible. GPU at 80-90%. I will keep that setting for the next days to verify it in actual use.

 

Considering that a 3080 is about 30% more powerful I doubt that 100% and 90fps are maintainable, certainly not with ultra settings.

 

 

[chiliwili69]

7 hours ago, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

I'm not RAM or CPU bottlenecked (at least according fpsVR CPU is bored at only 10%-20%)

 

Well... That´s not really true. Most of CPU %load numbers shown by MSI Afterburner, fpsVR, Windows monitor, etcetc does not really measure anything useful.

IL-2 has various processes, but one (or two) of them are really heavy and bottlenack the core which is running. That processes are constantly jumping from core to core because windows do that (it might be for thermal reasons) so if you have for example 8 cores and one core at a moment is loaded at 100%, but the other 7 cores are just relaxing your CPU load is 22%, but you are bottlenecked by CPU.

This is better explained here.

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

On 12/8/2020 at 12:48 PM, dburne said:

 

Yeah but again, I would not consider my system hitting 90 much running at this resolution. Only for a very brief instant.

I could disable Motion Smoothing but pretty sure I would get considerable stuttering which I can not have, can't stand stuttering.

I have flown two of my PWCG missions and both had heavy air combat, and I had no problems at all with Motion Smoothing. It ran 45 fps at all times.

I'm not fully understanding how to enable motion smoothing.  I turn it on in the application tab in steamvr and still various frame rates from 45 to 90. 

 

Shouldn't it be either 45 or 90 with it enabled? Am I missing another setting?

[41Sqn_Skipper]

24 minutes ago, CDRSEABEE said:

I'm not fully understanding how to enable motion smoothing.  I turn it on in the application tab in steamvr and still various frame rates from 45 to 90. 

 

Shouldn't it be either 45 or 90 with it enabled? Am I missing another setting?

 

There's another setting where you must enable it first:

 

 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:04 PM, 41Sqn_Skipper said:

 

There's another setting where you must enable it first:

 

 

I've tried all this and attempted to change the file.. still can't get smoothing to work.

 

Edit..I figured it out.  Hand controls needed to be activated or something like that.

Edited December 13, 2020 by CDRSEABEE

[41Sqn_Skipper]

2 hours ago, CDRSEABEE said:

Edit..I figured it out.  Hand controls needed to be activated or something like that.

 

Yes the menu is well hidden. I don't use motion smoothing anymore, initially I thought it's quit nice. The artifacts (e.g. on the leading wing edge) didn't bother me much, but the ghosting of enemies on some situations was quitdisturbing.

I'm now running 60Hz mode and found quit good looking settings that give me steady 60fps at 80% render resolution even in really bad situation (like heavy clouds and flying low over a city). 

[I.JG3_CDRSEABEE]

Yeah probably won't use it in planes but in tanks it seems to help with all the ground clutter.