Interactive Mouse in Cockpit???

[BiBa]

Wolfpack345 has uploaded the YouTube...

IL-2 Sturmovik: Desert Wings - TOBRUK - Torpedo Runs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH6dKvJGZW8&list=LL&index=2

...Video, where in the Minute 2:25, there is an interactive mouse-cursor in the Wellington’s cockpit, that hovers over the “Open Bomb Bay Doors” button and click on its Handle-Switch to actually open it!

 Did I miss something?

IL has finally an interactive Cockpit like in DCS?

Or is it only available in the new Battle of Desert Wings?

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by BiBa

[SharpeXB]

Desert Wings and Cliffs of Dover are a different game engine than Great Battles. GB does not have clickable cockpits. 

[BiBa]

Just read that Desert Wings requires Steam and Cliffs of Dover base game to run. 

What I don't understand is why such a great thing like "interactive clickable cockpit" remained unmentioned on the promotion site!

Edited November 5, 2020 by BiBa

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, BiBa said:

Just read that Desert Wings requires Steam and Cliffs of Dover base game to run. 

What I don't understand is why such a great thing like "interactive clickable cockpit" remained unmentioned on the promotion site!

It’s mentioned here on the Steam Store page for Cliffs.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/754530/IL2_Sturmovik_Cliffs_of_Dover_Blitz_Edition/

“Complex control systems, interactive cockpits, new and more realistic engine and aeronautics modeling give pilots endless challenges”

Desert Wings is a mod for Cliffs of Dover so it needs that game in order to run. 

The original CoD was released in 2011 and Blitz Edition is an updated, improved version released in 2017. It was made before the Great Battles series and uses a completely different engine. 

[Sokol1]

BiBa,

 

To be fair, Cliffs of Dover/BLITZ/Desert Wings, only have a partial clickable cockpits - way less than DCS standards (that have some useless controls clickable, e.g. P-51 Detrola receiver) with few options modeled and some clickable more cosmetic than practical need, like click on magnetos switches before start engines, that is just a "what if/fantasy", engine start without click in this switches.

 

Besides this mouse interactivity provide a "cheater", an digital pop-up of instruments readings. ?

 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Sokol1

[343KKT_Kintaro]

On 11/5/2020 at 4:46 PM, BiBa said:

Did I miss something?

 

 

"Storm of War" started to be developed by 2003 and the project was unveiled to the public by 2004/2005. In the present day it's called "the Dover series". This is "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover BLITZ" plus all subsequent add-ons, although for the moment the only existing add-on is "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover: Desert Wings - Tobruk".

 

Clickable cockpits had been an announced as a future feature for the Dover series in 2008 or 2009, thus when the project still was under the working title "Storm of War". At release in 2011 "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover" presented cliquable cockpits in all flyable aircraft.

 

If you did miss something? well... yes.

[BiBa]

3 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

BiBa,

 

To be fair, Cliffs of Dover/BLITZ/Desert Wings, only have a partial clickable cockpits - way less than DCS standards (that have some useless controls clickable, e.g. P-51 Detrola receiver) with few options modeled and some clickable more cosmetic than practical need, like click on magnetos switches before start engines, that is just a "what if/fantasy", engine start without click in this switches.

 

Besides this mouse interactivity provide a "cheater", an digital pop-up of instruments readings.

Good to know...

Thanks for the Info!

[BiBa]

16 hours ago, 343KKT343KKT_Kintaro said:

 

 

"Storm of War" started to be developed by 2003 and the project was unveiled to the public by 2004/2005. In the present day it's called "the Dover series". This is "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover BLITZ" plus all subsequent add-ons, although for the moment the only existing add-on is "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover: Desert Wings - Tobruk".

 

Clickable cockpits had been an announced as a future feature for the Dover series in 2008 or 2009, thus when the project still was under the working title "Storm of War". At release in 2011 "IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover" presented cliquable cockpits in all flyable aircraft.

 

If you did miss something? well... yes.

 

Great to know that, but... If I've missed something as important as "clickable cockpits", let's see if I had a blind spot for not seeing that:

 

In the pic 1 attached, IL-2 DOVER SERIES is depicted in blue down right on the site, like kind of a sub-category of the red GBs. So, it is so obvious that the layman should have understood the matter "that way" and was supposed to know it's a totally different engine game just because it's in blue --- like to understand the difference between the red Elefant and the blue Donkee - right?!? 

 

Nowhere on the main ILS site, nor on its seconderies, not even on the main CLIFFS OF DOVER BLITZ Site in attached pic 2 you can read the words "clickable cockpits", which by the way, it increases the value of the game to the level of a simulation...

 

Well...yes indeed - I did miss something...

Edited November 7, 2020 by BiBa

[343KKT_Kintaro]

2 hours ago, BiBa said:

Well...yes indeed - I did miss something...

 

 

No worries, my friend, I think you got it: the two colours are used to distinguish two different games.

 

Sokol1 is right, in the Dover series not all buttons and levers are clickable on the dashboards, but I'm very happy with the game as it is. Indeed, I mapped no key for opening/closing the fuel cocks because we use that device during the take off procedure only. So I simply click on the fuel cock on screen and, this way, I spare one key (or combination of keys) on my keyboard for the controls that are really use in flight or in combat.

[BiBa]

57 minutes ago, 343KKT343KKT_Kintaro said:

No worries, my friend, I think you got it: the two colours are used to distinguish two different games...

 

 

...yea, and also the fact that IL*2 has completely forgotten to mention about the "clickable cockpits", which is something that could have boosted the sales enormously.

In other words: a flawed and inadequate promotion for a product, if generalized on all IL*2 aircrafts, it will read DCS one day the riot act and put it on the cupboard. 

 

IL*2 GB Engine is more frames stable and efficient and less exposed to crashes than DCS'. Above that the variety of aircraft damages especially on land crashes is far more realistic and superior than DCS, where sometimes a little collision with a tree top leads to a sudden explosion. 

 

I really hope that IL*2 will find a way soon to take the "clickable cockpits" option out of Cliffs of Dover and embed it in GB.

 

Keep on with the good job IL...

Edited November 7, 2020 by BiBa

[343KKT_Kintaro]

8 minutes ago, BiBa said:

I really hope that IL*2 will find a way soon to take the "clickable cockpits" option out of Cliffs of Dover and embed it in GB.

 

 

The decision makers are not in the same companies.

 

- IL2CoD is developed by Team Fusion Simulations.

 

- IL2GB is developed by 1C777 and 1C Game Studios.

 

If 1C777 and 1C Game Studios want clickable cockpits in their Great Battles series, they will implement such a feature in IL2GB independently from IL2CoD. There's no need to take it out from the Dover series.

[Enceladus828]

I hope at some time cockpits in IL-2 GBs can become clickable. Most people say it's unnecessary due to lesser switches/systems than a modern plane, but I'm starting to find that some non-Garmin planes in MSFS 2020 have fewer switches/systems than in a WW2 plane, and yet the former planes have clickable cockpits.

 

For all of these basic things like Fuel cocks/Fuel Selector valve, Magnetos, and switches that are right in front of you, it's simpler to just click them instead of assigning a key command like Ctrl + X, etc.

I mean you could; but I just prefer to simply click them.

 

Regarding the subject in this thread, I even suggested it a few months ago for IL-2 GBs.

 

[BiBa]

4 hours ago, 343KKT343KKT_Kintaro said:

The decision makers are not in the same companies....

 

...in that case it's obvious their programming code won't be compatible for any Patch exchange.

[Sokol1]

5 hours ago, BiBa said:

...yea, and also the fact that IL*2 has completely forgotten to mention about the "clickable cockpits", which is something that could have boosted the sales enormously.

In other words: a flawed and inadequate promotion for a product, if generalized on all IL*2 aircrafts, ...

 

What may you are missing is that in IL-2 site, "clickable/interactive cockpits" is an ... inconvenient matter. ?

 

 

[BiBa]

36 minutes ago, Sokol1 said:

 

What may you are missing is that in IL-2 site, "clickable/interactive cockpits" is an ... inconvenient matter. ?

 

I don't get what you mean with inconvenient matter. 

All I'm saying is, if IL-GB is promoting for another product like IL-COV, they should do it right without excluding their priority feature like "clickable/interactive cockpits". 

If any inconvenience at all, then they should not promote for Alien ware in the risk of getting their customer confused about asking who is drilling holes in the neighbors' sockets...

Edited November 7, 2020 by BiBa

[343KKT_Kintaro]

27 minutes ago, BiBa said:

I don't get what you mean with inconvenient matter.

 

 

Clickable cockpits may have consequences on other parts of the source code. The more features you add to a sim, the more difficult it gets to handle that sim in terms of ressources and software efficiency. Originally, back in the period 2003-2008, "Storm of War" was not intended to be a cockpit-clickable game. The clickable thing had been added "en route" in an attempt to ressemble DCS. Was this a good idea? if on top of that you add a anti-epileptic filter... and other problems coming from different sources... perhaps we could understand how we went into the disaster of March 2011.

 

 

27 minutes ago, BiBa said:

All I'm saying is, if IL-GB is promoting for another product

 

 

IL2GB is not promoting another product. 1C company is the owner of the "IL-2 Sturmovik" brand name and they promote three different games under that label. They promote two products equally (IL2GB and IL2CoD) and they leave that the community develops the oldest of the three, this is: IL2-1946.

 

 

27 minutes ago, BiBa said:

they should do it right without excluding their priority feature like "clickable/interactive cockpits".

 

 

Why "their priority feature"? clickable cockpits are only one of the features in one game, out of three games that 1C possesses. IL2CoD still presents too many bugs. If I could sweep them all away by removing the clickable cockpits on the dashboards... I think I'd do it.

 

 

27 minutes ago, BiBa said:

If any inconvenience at all, then they should not promote for Alien ware in the risk of getting their customer confused about asking who is drilling holes in the neighbors' sockets...

 

 

Nobody's getting his customer confused... Maybe you are confused...

 

Take it easy BiBa and do not get me wrong: we have a great game with the BLITZ edition and Desert Wings - Tobruk. If you never purchased BLITZ nor Tobruk, I really recommend you purchase them now and you try them. You'll LOVE them I'm sure. Plus, Blitz is 6 dollars on sale now!! Look:

 

 

[Sokol1]

1 hour ago, BiBa said:

I don't get what you mean with inconvenient matter. 

 

Give a look in this topic - there are several similar ones, that you figure why: ?

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37158-what-gives-a-clickable-cockpit/

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Sokol1

[BiBa]

1 hour ago, 343KKT343KKT_Kintaro said:

...Why "their priority feature"? clickable cockpits are only one of the features in one game, out of three games that 1C possesses. IL2CoD still presents too many bugs. If I could sweep them all away by removing the clickable cockpits on the dashboards... I think I'd do it...

 

Well the difference between a Gamer and a Simmer is what defines priorities.

From my point of view as a simmer, a clickable cockpit is "alive" and is the direct access to "reality".

Don't get me wrong, I love flying in IL, but I have to check the assignment of the HOTAS keyboard every time I change an aircraft, whereas I can jump directly in an interactive cockpit without bothering about assignment here assignment there. 

 

But this is just a point of view, no critic. 

The main subject was about promotion, no more.

So let us have a close up here as all questions have been happily answered.

Thanks

Edited November 7, 2020 by BiBa

[343KKT_Kintaro]

20 minutes ago, BiBa said:

a clickable cockpit is "alive" and is the direct access to "reality"

 

 

Do not excessively glorify clickable cockpits. In the domain of vehicle simulations, clickable cockpits should be very soon obsolete... same as keyboards and mice should be obsolete as well (again, at least in the domain of simulations). We still use those tools today (the mouse and the keyboard) because they are still standards in the present day for all of us, we simmers... but sooner or later the whole simulation will happen with one VR headset, two datagloves, and the HOTAS/rudder pedals. With your datagloves you'll be clicking in the VR environment (the empty air in front of you!) for the handling of your controls inside your cockpit (buttons, levers, etc.). So, in the simulation, you will be really interacting with your dashboard and cockpit exactly the same as real pilots do. I think the rudder pedals and the HOTAS should remain real hardware devices... but all other buttons and levers in the cockpit should be 100% virtual thanks to the use of data gloves. That's the future IMHO.

[danperin]

I joined Team Fusion back in 2013 exactly because of those features (clickable pits + mouse over labels).

Put somebody who is used to click all over a virtual WWII aircraft pit inside a real WWII plane and he will certainly know where everything is located and what are their functions.

 

For me it's not about immersion, it's about learning how those things operate even if just virtually. Sorry for the unpopular opinion.

 

And it's way easier to read speed/temps/etc using the mouse over labels feature.

 

In my opinion it is of huge value that now we have a D520/Martlet/Kittyhawk/Tomahawk/Gladiator/Cr 42/MC 202/Wellington/etc with such features so we

can learn those planes operations with that level of details.

 

And there's more, if you just like to shoot at other planes and don't want to bother about engine management, you can just hit F10 to turn off/on the mouse interaction on the Dover Series sim.

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2020 by danperin

[BiBa]

11 hours ago, Sokol1 said:

Give a look in this topic - there are several similar ones, that you figure why: ?

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37158-what-gives-a-clickable-cockpit/

 

 

OK... I understand now... 

So buffing up the scratches this thread might have caused, one last reminder;

my intention in the first place was to fill up the gap in the IL-COD promotion,

not to complain, criticize or to make any claims for cockpit alteration. 

 

So I urge all who share 343KKT_Kintaro's opinion to follow up the thread that Sokol1 has advised us.

This thread is definitely the wrong battle ground for any further debate on "click - clicking - clickable" fingering what ever.

 

If you ask any Cyborg or AI oriented entity, he/it will surely swear, virtual sex is more immersive than sharing it with a real human being... 

Edited November 8, 2020 by BiBa

[343KKT_Kintaro]

 

5 hours ago, BiBa said:

my intention in the first place was to fill up the gap in the IL-COD promotion,

not to complain, criticize or to make any claims for cockpit alteration.

 

 

Sure, no problem with that: you are welcome and your point is not being missed here, trust me. Precisely, and especially thanks to Sokol1's intervention, this thread could be finally showing that maybe 1C and TFS are making the deliberate choice of not talking about that feature, the in-game clickable cockpits in IL2CoD. Why? well, maybe because in the internet, negative opinions are much more harmful than helpful positive opinions are. You can't simply show the list of features in a game, thinking that they will be all welccome by the public. We live in a real world, with all its levels of complexity.