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What "gives" a clickable cockpit?

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What "gives" a clickable cockpit?

 

In Cliffs of Dover you click, among other things, in preparation for the ignition, in the 109s the fuel lever.
Does that really gives you more immersion now? More simulation? More fun?

 

The Digital Combat Simulator seems to be taking things to the extreme on this.

 

To start the engines, I may still see a "value", but during flight, worse, during aerial combat?

 

I don't have a firm opinion on this. In general, I find clickable cockpits usually unnecessarily circuitous.

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Yep

Further, how is seeing a floating arrow immersive? How is dragging a mouse more immersive? When I turn on my car radio muscle memory takes my hand to a knob. Substituting that for dragging a mouse in a game is less immersive, not more. I’m with ya.

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I love them, would love to have them in BoX, and think the potential for application in VR with gloves is tremendous, but there aren't many people who would agree with me on this board. Naturally they're all just crazy🙃

 

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Can sombody that is bothered seach for the 50 other identical threads and link them here so we don't have to do this again.

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1 minute ago, baylor703 said:

I love them, would love to have them in BoX, and think the potential for application in VR with gloves is tremendous, but there aren't many people who would agree with me on this board. Naturally they're all just crazy🙃

 

 

:)

I woundn’t object to the option in “settings” but I wouldn’t want to be stuck with it.

I understand the appeal to some no doubt, to me personally however it’s less realistic in an odd way. 

 

That said it will never happen here.

Just now, AeroAce said:

Can sombody that is bothered seach for the 50 other identical threads and link them here so we don't have to do this again.

 

It’s been talked to death.

Luke?

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7 minutes ago, AeroAce said:

Can sombody that is bothered seach for the 50 other identical threads and link them here so we don't have to do this again.

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't find identical threads through my search. 😕

Edited by Anw.StG2_Templer
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14 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

It’s been talked to death.

Luke?

 

giphy.gif

 

:) 

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I don’t like clickpits, they are a massive immersion killer for me. I get that they are necessary for a sim like DCS, but personally I have no use for it in this sim.

 

The fewer overlays on the screen the better. That’s why I like the technochat logos in BoX. They are small and minimally intrusive while still being useful.

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I like clickable but mostly dont find it practical in actual flight and end up mapping vital functions to buttons anyhow. Using a mouse in combat really doesent work but from a training and learning perspective it does give one a better feeling of being in full control of the authentic machines. In short it's just nice to have the option but isnt a deal-breaker for me.

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And here we go, rehasing old topics yet again...

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The only 'CLICK' I here is from the topic being locked.

 

lock-gif-5.gif

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7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

And here we go, rehasing old topics yet again...

 

Yes but I missed the last 3000 times we talked about it!

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Let’s be fair guys. The OP was not whining, nor requesting anything. He was simply trying to form an oppinion and asked the community how they feel about the issue (I guess he found out...)

 

Yes, there is a search function, and people should use it, but I can’t definitively say, that it’s worse to have a new thread discussing an old topic, than it is to dig up and reanimate the corpse of a long dead thread.

 

In any case: Let’s not be down on the OP for asking an open question.

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Obviously with modern aircrafts with MFDs, digital consoles etc. clicable cockpit is mandatory because it is impossible to use this devices in other way. Probably you would need like three keyboards. It is just impossible.

 

In case of WWI or WWII warbirds it is luxury as long as you have all systems modelled and available on keyboard, hotas etc. Nice feature but not mandatory.

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10 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

Let’s be fair guys. The OP was not whining, nor requesting anything. He was simply trying to form an oppinion and asked the community how they feel about the issue (I guess he found out...)

 

Yes, there is a search function, and people should use it, but I can’t definitively say, that it’s worse to have a new thread discussing an old topic, than it is to dig up and reanimate the corpse of a long dead thread.

 

In any case: Let’s not be down on the OP for asking an open question.

 

Whether its flight sims or a potato growing forum the same topics get rehashed day in day out thats just the way it is on the internet. Another thing people forget is some people make new posts in order to start up conversation, and get to know people on the forum. Like I just asked about the Hornet. I know I could just go to youtube and watch a video but choose instead to discuss it with people here on the forum and get a dialogue going. And besides topics rarely stay on track anyway, one minute we're talking about cockpits the next well... what we're talking about now!

Edited by Wolf8312

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I think that BoX is perfect just the way it is, as it is a simulation in all the truly meaningful ways, while still being easy enough for players new to flight sims not to scare them away.

Hopping into a new plane to fly is as easy as ~10 minutes of research through guides such as Chuck's. If we had DCS level complexity, it would take hours.

 

Would it be nice to have clickable cockpits? I think so, BUT only if it was an option that could be disabled. That's only because I enjoy learning about every little detail of these aircraft. It makes me feel good to know that I'm the one flying my plane, doing EVERYTHING, rather than the "virtual pilot" doing this automatically. It makes me feel good to know that I could hop into a P51 IRL and know how to start it up, taxi, and fly it.

 

That is beside the point anyway, as there is no way the devs would ever consider doing something like this. For starters, implementing it at this point would be an absolutely massive undertaking. Second, modeling all of the aircraft's systems (rather than just scripting them) would add to the development time by an amount that would simply not be worth it. 

It simply would be impossible to push out 10 new planes and a map every year.

 

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2 minutes ago, itsthatguy said:

If we had DCS level complexity, it would take hours.

....take more time to develope, cost more money, cut down on frame rates............

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25 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

Yes, there is a search function, and people should use it, but I can’t definitively say, that it’s worse to have a new thread discussing an old topic, ...

 

As I said, I used the search function. I found multiple post now, but no isolated thread/topic on this issue. 

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24 minutes ago, MicEzo said:

Obviously with modern aircrafts with MFDs, digital consoles etc. clicable cockpit is mandatory because it is impossible to use this devices in other way. Probably you would need like three keyboards. It is just impossible.

 

In case of WWI or WWII warbirds it is luxury as long as you have all systems modelled and available on keyboard, hotas etc. Nice feature but not mandatory.

 

^ this

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1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Yep

Further, how is seeing a floating arrow immersive? How is dragging a mouse more immersive? When I turn on my car radio muscle memory takes my hand to a knob. Substituting that for dragging a mouse in a game is less immersive, not more. I’m with ya.

 

Idk if you have tried VR yet or not, but there are a few commercial flight sims I play that have enabled "VR Hands". I don't think DCS has this fully implemented yet. 

 

When I fly in these sims I don't even use my X56 joystick. I use my VR hands to reach out and grab the yoke and throttle in the virtual plane. it is the same for flipping all the switches and levers in the plane as well: I need to use my virtual hands to reach out and control these devices.

 

Although the virtual yoke would not be ideal for combat, I feel that the VR hands combined with clickable cockpits can be the ultimate in terms of immersion.

 

Also, I know clickable cockpits for this sim are not feasible, but would it be possible to bind a hotkey to the fuel tank switcher thing? I find it annoying that I have to stare at it waiting for it to jump in the spitfire, but if I look away I miss it.

Edited by =SqSq=switch201
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[edited]

 

 

Edited by SYN_Haashashin
Poor taste

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Hi all,

 

Since this is not happening in BoX, said by the team several times already, but it can be a good discussion for some..I moved it here.

 

Haash

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Wth was poor taste? It was a legitimate question. If you're reaching out to grab invisible stuff, how do you and the computer know if you apply pressure or release pressure? 

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Clickable pits re good in advanced modules in DCS , but with easy startup and systems there is no benefit having it. I do not know, but I imagine getting new planes will take a lot more time and for very little to no benefit. I agree with those saying the immersion is less. If you do not use VR I recommend you to build switches , far more immersive, switching a  button in a panel than using keyboard or click a mouse

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2 hours ago, itsthatguy said:

I think that BoX is perfect just the way it is, as it is a simulation in all the truly meaningful ways, while still being easy enough for players new to flight sims not to scare them away.

Hopping into a new plane to fly is as easy as ~10 minutes of research through guides such as Chuck's. If we had DCS level complexity, it would take hours.

 

 

 

To be honest I kinda experienced the opposite. With clickable cockpits you kinda get a better idea of where everything is and what can and cannot be used as its easier to see more clearly. It lends itself better to a tutorial as well IMO. With a clicky cockpit you get a better idea -by just clicking about- what can and cannot be activated or used more quickly. With no click, you have a list of keybinds and have to rather blindly feel your way through looking around to see if anything is being activated whenever you press a button. Well thats for noobs anyway.

When I first started learning BOS however I wasnt sure if I was using the right buttons, and had to watch carefully to see what pressing a certain button was activating within the cockpit itself.

I agree its not worth the time and effort though. 

 

DCS level of complexity for a prop plane with a clickable cockpit is really not that difficult either as you dont even have to learn start up proceedure if you dont want to. I think many people undestimate how casual DCS can be. Really can be as casual as you want it to be.

 

 

Edited by Wolf8312
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Well I never used it in COD, but I do in DCS. Anyway the idea of clickable cockpits in Great Battles is never going to happen . It is one of the things that got dismissed very early on and I quote, it is never going to happen.

One thing it is a company strategy , another it have no support among the customers. Personally I do not mind, I just do as I do in COD ignore them

Edited by LuseKofte

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3 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Well I never used it in COD, but I do in DCS. Anyway the idea of clickable cockpits in Great Battles is never going to happen . It is one of the things that got dismissed very early on and I quote, it is never going to happen

 

In DCS it is quite useful and consequent - as for WWII planes I don't see any benefit, because those cockpit weren't that complicated and you can map all the

functions on your HOTAS and leave a few on the keyboard. And it is good that this will never going to happen in Great Battles - I'm happy with it.

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56 minutes ago, BorysVorobyov said:

Wth was poor taste? It was a legitimate question. If you're reaching out to grab invisible stuff, how do you and the computer know if you apply pressure or release pressure? 

 

Borys,

 

I assume this question was directed at me?

 

To answer the question, Its not perfect but the control does rumble to let you know something is moving

 

for example to grab a knob in order to set Autopilot altitude, I first reach my hand over to the clickable area. once I am close enough the knob I am trying to grab will highlight and my controller will do a very small vibrate. when I click and old down my finger I am then "grabbing" the knob. as I rotate my wrist the controller will vibrate with each tick or increment of the knob.

 

Having played a bunch of other VR games, maybe its a feeling I am simply just used to at this point.

I remember it being quite weird at first but it is very very immersive.

 

For example on a cessna 172, I think you are supposed to increase your mixture as crank the engine. with a mouse this is not possible. you have to up the mixture and then crank the ignition, but with my VR hands I can crank the ignition while I slowly slide the mixture forward. It feels quite real to me.

also when controlling the flight stick, it can be difficult to gauge where the yolk is currently positioned without any pressure. you have to use your eyes more than anything to see where the yolk is in the virtual plane. that's why I said having the virtual yoke and throttle in a combat flight sim would put you at a disadvantage for sure. 

Edited by =SqSq=switch201
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23 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

After the 20th five minute start sequence it'll be which button is quick start?

Actually he was explaining a lot 😛 and then doing it on his own fast, so it's more like 2 or less min start ^^

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5 hours ago, Anw.StG2_Templer said:

What "gives" a clickable cockpit?

 

Clickable cockpit is an necessary "shortcut" for flight games with many controls - e.g. Falcon 4.0 or DCS jets, an way to avoid the need of memorize hundred of "Ctrl+Shit+ALt+key" mappings, hence their value is simplify things. BS say that add "realism".

 

Anyway in VR times "click'pit" may have became an necessity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Sokol1
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2 hours ago, InProgress said:

Actually he was explaining a lot 😛 and then doing it on his own fast, so it's more like 2 or less min start ^^

But we don't have the ground crew to crank the engine over for the other 3 minutes 😉

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6 hours ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

But we don't have the ground crew to crank the engine over for the other 3 minutes 😉

You have to use your imagination, just like unloading cargo and cargo puff disappears.

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Not once have I used cheat startup in DCS choppers , MI8 and KA 50 is a lot of buttons to push to get it happen. I love every click. It does not go faster to make the PC do the task, so you know everybody will spend that time. 

But it also will not happened here, I am really not sure I want either anymore. Kind of my fast fun once in a week this game

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For me, clickable cockpits are a waste of time... we haven't got the ability to do a proper start up or shut down for heavens sake, so it's pointless.

Try clicking on switches levers and buttons when you are in the midst of combat... get you killed that's what, so no to clickable anything.

 

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Clickable cockpits aren't neccesary for a WW2 combat flight sim. I would take Inmersive enviorement over clickable things all day.

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31 minutes ago, LF_ManuV said:

Clickable cockpits aren't neccesary for a WW2 combat flight sim. I would take Inmersive enviorement over clickable things all day.

 

It depends on the person I guess. Some people just love the idea of being in a fully functional 109 or spitfire with the ability to actually go through the whole process of the start up procedure exactly as the real pilots did with the inclusion of calling in the ground crew (DCS). Its a learning experience that holds historical significance as you go through the same motions that the real pilots themselves did. Okay its somewhat detracted from by having to use a mouse, but it's still an experience that feels more authentic and genuine than just starting on the runway hot. I would have thought everybody given a choice in the matter, would at least appreciate the option of a clickable cockpit even if like me they dont use it all the time. There is no denying that it can be very convenient and it does make things feel more genuine and authentic from a historical point of view at least IMO.   

The future is rapidly approaching as well, and I am pretty sure when it gets here everyone will prefer clicky cockpits when they can actually reach out and press the buttons themselves.

I think there's a bit of a fanboy edge to this debate as we're talking BOS VS DCS really ain't we?


 

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It is an odd debate if you focus on WWI and WWII aircraft.

 

In DCS you hardly touch anything in the WWII pits once you get up in the air, and it is easy to map every control you need (trim, flaps, lights, coms, sights, etc) to a modern HOTAS in either sim. I can see why people like to have the option, but I would hate to see that become a development focus derailing resources to make a small minority of simmers happy.

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Sorry, I forgot to state that was my opinion.

I would welcome clickable cockpits but I find the rest of the things really make up for that inmersion that clickable cockpits make. If that clickable cockpit thing is going to give some headache to the Devs and make the waits longer, I prefer not to have it. For sure it's nice to start and check the values of every item as i enjoy in other sim but also like to have all of the extra things. Both things combined? Great but not happening.

I Don't want to enter in that "Fanboy edge thing" I have both sims with all content. DCS is really good when you have to make the procedures and it ends there. If I want to take a spin on a Spitifre I know where to go. If I want to make a bombing run on a F18 also and for sure, if I want to see some ww2 action too.

I don't want to compare things but as soon as I am in the air, I use the same hotas commands for both Spitfires for example.

 

There always are fanboys but this "clicky" thing has been a thing for many years now. I won't say "They started first" but I can say everybody to it's own. 

 

22 minutes ago, Wolf8312 said:

 

It depends on the person I guess. Some people just love the idea of being in a fully functional 109 or spitfire with the ability to actually go through the whole process of the start up procedure exactly as the real pilots did with the inclusion of calling in the ground crew (DCS). Its a learning experience that holds historical significance as you go through the same motions that the real pilots themselves did. Okay its somewhat detracted from by having to use a mouse, but it's still an experience that feels more authentic and genuine than just starting on the runway hot. I would have thought everybody given a choice in the matter, would at least appreciate the option of a clickable cockpit even if like me they dont use it all the time. There is no denying that it can be very convenient and it does make things feel more genuine and authentic from a historical point of view at least IMO.   

The future is rapidly approaching as well, and I am pretty sure when it gets here everyone will prefer clicky cockpits when they can actually reach out and press the buttons themselves.

I think there's a bit of a fanboy edge to this debate as we're talking BOS VS DCS really ain't we?


 

 

Edited by LF_ManuV

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