Help with making an object switch waypoints

[JG7_X-Man]

Here is a summary of what is tripping me up:

• 6 Spits taking off from Evere (Pink Circle), then forming up and catch up with the bomber group and escort them (bottom black arrow) all the way to the target and back.

Where I am having issue is the end of the mission (top black arrow). The idea is:

• The Spits are to escort the bomber group up to Diest (Blue Circle) and follow the magenta line back to Evere and land.

That's not what's happening! Grr. What is happening is the:

•  The Spits do terminate escort but they fly along side the bombers and land with the them following the red line and land at Melsbroek.

 

If someone could take a peak under the hood and give me an idea how to fix this, that would be great. I read in JIm's manual that I could deactivate the subsequent waypoints but I wasn't sure if that would break the bomber group (or how to do that ).

 

Note: The random generator is tweaked to spit out the same mission until I can work out the kinks. Also, if anyone finds any redundancy anywhere in the mission, I am open to ideas on streamlining.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Gambit21]

I’m away from my computer - but all you need to do is use a deactivate command on the “escort” MCU, then “Force Complete - “High” on the Spits, then send them wherever you want.

 

Really you don’t even need to deactivate the escort MCU, but it’s good practice just in case.

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

I’m away from my computer - but all you need to do is use a deactivate command on the “escort” MCU, then “Force Complete - “High” on the Spits, then send them wherever you want.

 

Really you don’t even need to deactivate the escort MCU, but it’s good practice just in case.

 

Ahh! I will give that a shot!

Edited October 29, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JimTM]

Notes:

• Bomber Group Command Cover is being triggered twice, once by 2s timer (id:215) and once by OnPlaneTookOff event from the escort lead. To avoid confusion, I suggest that you trigger the cover command shortly after the formation command instead.
• Trigger Timer id: 181 is not triggered by anything
• I'm confused by the escort waypoint logic. As long as the escort is operating under the cover command, they should not need waypoints, other than when they get an order to stop covering the bombers and RTB. I suggest:
  - Remove the escort waypoints
  - When the bomber lead reaches the "end escort" WP (whatever that one is) have that waypoint trigger End Escort Duty (id: 71) and 2 seconds after that, trigger an escort RTB waypoint.

[JG7_X-Man]

That's just fantastic! Thank you @@JimTM so much for the detailed notes!

I guess you noticed I highjacked your single mission carpet bombing mission example LOL 

Edited October 29, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JG7_X-Man]

4 hours ago, JimTM said:

Notes:

• Bomber Group Command Cover is being triggered twice, once by 2s timer (id:215) and once by OnPlaneTookOff event from the escort lead. To avoid confusion, I suggest that you trigger the cover command shortly after the formation command instead.
• Trigger Timer id: 181 is not triggered by anything
• I'm confused by the escort waypoint logic. As long as the escort is operating under the cover command, they should not need waypoints, other than when they get an order to stop covering the bombers and RTB. I suggest:
  - Remove the escort waypoints
  - When the bomber lead reaches the "end escort" WP (whatever that one is) have that waypoint trigger End Escort Duty (id: 71) and 2 seconds after that, trigger an escort RTB waypoint.

@JimTM Hey, For the life of me I couldn't get it to work. With those changes you suggested. I don't think there are any escort waypoint logic except the two RTB waypoints.

 

Sorry to be so dense.

[JimTM]

28 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@JimTM Hey, For the life of me I couldn't get it to work. With those changes you suggested. I don't think there are any escort waypoint logic except the two RTB waypoints.

...

 

See Bomber Escort End WP (id: 109), which:

• Is object linked to the bomber leader and escort leader. Remove the object link to the escort leader.
• Triggers a 2s timer that triggers an activate trigger linked to Bomber Escort RTB WP 1 (id:113). I'm not sure what the activate is doing.
  Remove the activate trigger and target link the 2s timer to Bomber Escort RTB WP 1.

Also, the trigger waypoints above and below  Bomber Escort End WP are target linked to End Escort Duty (id: 71). Remove those two links so that escort is ended only by Bomber Escort End WP.

Edited October 30, 2020 by JimTM

[JG7_X-Man]

Thanks @JimTM - Question: Bomber Escort End WP (id: 109) is the waypoint I want the escort to take back to Evere. Should I still remove it?

 

I see it!

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, JG7_X-Man said:

Thanks @JimTM - Question: Bomber Escort End WP (id: 109) is the waypoint I want the escort to take back to Evere. Should I still remove it?

 

I see it!

 

 

I forgot to mention, remove the target link from Bomber Escort End WP to Bomber Escort RTB WP 1.

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM Bingo! OK - Kind of LOL

 

Of the 6 Spits, 5 made it back but only 3 flew in formation, follow the assigned WPs  and land at Evere. The remaining 2 Spits landed with the bombers.

I will try grouping them and see if the behavior changes. The Attack flight split up as they should and land at their assigned bases. I think I may have forgot to activate the RTB WP 1 like you told me too.

 

Question: would that cause the flight to spit up even thought they were linked.

[JimTM]

8 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@JimTM Bingo! OK - Kind of LOL

 

Of the 6 Spits, 5 made it back but only 3 flew in formation, follow the assigned WPs  and land at Evere. The remaining 2 Spits landed with the bombers.

I will try grouping them and see if the behavior changes. The Attack flight split up as they should and land at their assigned bases. I think I may have forgot to activate the RTB WP 1 like you told me too.

 

Question: would that cause the flight to spit up even thought they were linked.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "forgot to activate the RTB WP 1". If you still have issues after using the setup in your screen shot above (and removing the target link I mentioned just above), it's best to post the revised mission so people can have a look.

Edited October 30, 2020 by JimTM

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, JimTM said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "forgot to activate the RTB WP 1". If you still have issues after using the setup in your screen shot above (and removing the target link I mentioned just above), it's best to post the revised mission so people can have a look.

Running a test now.

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM and the crew - I made the changes you recommended. I left the Activation Trigger (id: 181) because that goes to the 4-way random generator and activities all the aircraft.

 

For the life of me I can't get the AI to go to their correct base. Help would be appreciated.

Autumn_44_Test.rar

[Gambit21]

Can I make a suggestion?

I looked at it figuring I'd devote a few minutes in the middle of trying to build some Normandy campaign logic here.

However after tooling around for a few minutes I just don't have the time to pull apart and analyze this.

 

Here's what you should do to help trouble shoot when something like this pops up.

Make a small, SIMPLE test mission with ONLY the logic that you're having trouble with and see if you can get it to work.

In other words, isolate the trouble logic and get rid of everything else - make the simplest version possible that will still determine if there's a bug

or if your logic is the issue. Logic should not be spread all over the map, but in a small concentrated area. Use one of the smaller maps if practical.

 

So in your case you'd put a flight of aircraft escorting another single aircraft as an air start close to a base, Force Complete, trigger the next waypoint, then the landing etc see if they all land.

Of not, then you can post the simple test mission for us to look at.

 

It's a pain in the ass, but it's necessary sometimes. 

 

Hopefully someone else will give it go for you.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Gambit21

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

...

For the life of me I can't get the AI to go to their correct base. Help would be appreciated.

...

 

When the escorts arrive at "Bomber Escort RTB WP 2", that waypoint triggers the land command at RAF Evere (the escort base). However, I believe the escort will land at the nearest friendly airfield, which is RAF Melsbroek (the bomber base). I haven't tested this but it differs from my original understanding here. So, you need to add a waypoint closer to RAF Evere than to RAF Melsbroek and have that trigger the land command.

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

Can I make a suggestion?

I looked at it figuring I'd devote a few minutes in the middle of trying to build some Normandy campaign logic here.

However after tooling around for a few minutes I just don't have the time to pull apart and analyze this.

 

Here's what you should do to help trouble shoot when something like this pops up.

Make a small, SIMPLE test mission with ONLY the logic that you're having trouble with and see if you can get it to work.

In other words, isolate the trouble logic and get rid of everything else - make the simplest version possible that will still determine if there's a bug

or if your logic is the issue. Logic should not be spread all over the map, but in a small concentrated area. Use one of the smaller maps if practical.

 

So in your case you'd put a flight of aircraft escorting another single aircraft as an air start close to a base, Force Complete, trigger the next waypoint, then the landing etc see if they all land.

Of not, then you can post the simple test mission for us to look at.

 

It's a pain in the ass, but it's necessary sometimes. 

 

Hopefully someone else will give it go for you.

 

 

 

 

So simple and elegant yet farthest from my mind! Thank you, this will be my go-to going forward instead of sitting for 45 min for the mission to run its course - brilliant!

22 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

When the escorts arrive at "Bomber Escort RTB WP 2", that waypoint triggers the land command at RAF Evere (the escort base). However, I believe the escort will land at the nearest friendly airfield, which is RAF Melsbroek (the bomber base). I haven't tested this but it differs from my original understanding here. So, you need to add a waypoint closer to RAF Evere than to RAF Melsbroek and have that trigger the land command.

 

Copy that! I will use Gambit21's idea and add two command lands side by side to make sure the correct one triggers

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM I took your Stop Cover example mission and tweaked it (Thanks @Gambit21) to see if the logic would work and it did!

 

So this tell me there is something wrong with my switch waypoint logic! Teach a man to fish, I love it...!  Thank guys.

[JimTM]

Glad to hear it works for you.

 

By the way, you don't need the 2s timers after your last waypoints. You can trigger the land commands directly from those waypoints.

[JG7_X-Man]

3 minutes ago, JimTM said:

Glad to hear it works for you.

 

By the way, you don't need the 2s timers after your last waypoints. You can trigger the land commands directly from those waypoints.

 Gotcha!

[JG7_X-Man]

Hey guys, still having issues with the switch waypoints for the escort group. Only the "Escort Group Leader" follows the "Bomber Escort RTB WP" even though they are all linked.

 

@JimTM, your example worked for me, the only difference is this mission has 9 groups each on a separate waypoint. I linked all of then to the two 2s timers because on one test runs, an entire 3 ship group was destroyed and that entire waypoint string wouldn't fire - is that a correct statement?

 

Any ideas on how to get all the fighters follow the leader?

 

Autumn_44_Test.rar

Edited November 2, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JimTM]

I'm not sure if this will fix the escort wingmen issue, but do the following:

• Target link the 9 bomber waypoints to a 1x counter rather than the 2s timer (id: 67)
• Target link the counter to the 2s timer (id: 67) so that the timer is triggered only once. You can make it a 0s timer if you want.
• Target link the 2s timer (id: 67) to 2s timer (id: 364) so that the escort fly formation before getting to the RTB waypoint 1.
• Change the time in 2s timer (id: 364) from 0 to 2 seconds.
• Remove the target link from Bomber Escort RTB WP 1 to 2s timer (id: 364)

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by JimTM

[JG7_X-Man]

1 hour ago, JimTM said:

I'm not sure if this will fix the escort wingmen issue, but do the following:

• Target link the 9 bomber waypoints to a 1x counter rather than the 2s timer (id: 67)
• Target link the counter to the 2s timer (id: 67) so that the timer is triggered only once. You can make it a 0s timer if you want.
• Target link the 2s timer (id: 67) to 2s timer (id: 364) so that the escort fly formation before getting to the RTB waypoint 1.
• Change the time in 2s timer (id: 364) from 0 to 2 seconds.
• Remove the target link from Bomber Escort RTB WP 1 to 2s timer (id: 364)

 

Rgr that! You are the best! Thank you - I shall report back.

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM I really appreciate your help. Still no dice, only the "Escort Leader" lands at the correct airfield. Trying a few other things - last resort will be to move the Escort to the same airfield.

[JimTM]

40 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@JimTM I really appreciate your help. Still no dice, only the "Escort Leader" lands at the correct airfield. Trying a few other things - last resort will be to move the Escort to the same airfield.

 

What do the escort wingmen do? Do they keep covering the bombers after the escort RTB waypoint is triggered? Do they land at the bomber base?

 

I can't see any reason why the wingmen would break off from the leader.

Edited November 3, 2020 by JimTM

[JG7_X-Man]

3 minutes ago, JimTM said:

 

What do the escort wingmen do? Do they keep covering the bombers after the escort RTB waypoint is triggered?

 

I can't see any reason why the wingmen would break off from the leader.

 

Yes - The cover command does trigger (they stop crisscrossing) but they just fly along side the bombers and land at the bomber airfield. 

Edited November 3, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[JimTM]

15 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Yes - The cover command does trigger (they stop crisscrossing) but they just fly along side the bombers and land at the bomber airfield. 

 

The only idea I've got left is to make two versions of Command Formation (id: 6) near the mission begin MCU, one for the escort only and one for the bombers only. Other than that, I'm stumped. There is something weird going on. Maybe it's a bug and maybe not.

 

OK, one more idea: Maybe the automatic RTB logic (i.e., bingo fuel, damaged) is kicking in for the wingmen and they are flying to the closest friendly airfield. Try moving the bomber base well back so that the escort base is closer.

Edited November 3, 2020 by JimTM

[JG7_X-Man]

1 minute ago, JimTM said:

 

The only idea I've got left is to make two versions of Command Formation (id: 6) near the mission begin MCU, one for the escort only and one for the bombers only. Other than that, I'm stumped. There is something weird going on. Maybe it's a bug and maybe not.

 

Gotcha - I will try that too, i.e. give the bombers and escort separate command formations.

[JimTM]

Just now, JG7_X-Man said:

 

Gotcha - I will try that too, i.e. give the bombers and escort separate command formations.

 

See my update above with one more idea.

[JG7_X-Man]

if the two don't work, I will scrub and start over with your carpet bombing example.

[JimTM]

7 minutes ago, JG7_X-Man said:

if the two don't work, I will scrub and start over with your carpet bombing example.

 

Before you trash it If it fails, try a very simple version: One small bomber flight, one escort flight, two airfields (bomber one slightly further away on return), no target attack, no enemies, just fly a route and cover bombers until RTB point.

[JG7_X-Man]

1 minute ago, JimTM said:

 

Before you trash it If it fails, try a very simple version: One small bomber flight, one escort flight, two airfields (bomber one slightly further away on return), no target attack, no enemies, just fly a route and cover bombers until RTB point.

 I did with your stop cover example, and it worked:

 

[JG7_X-Man]

@JimTM and @Gambit21I finally got it to work! Thanks for your help. It was the WP Priority setting that put it over the top. Switching it to "High" from "Medium" did the trick with your suggested setup.

 

Edited November 4, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Gambit21]

2 hours ago, JG7_X-Man said:

@JimTM and @Gambit21I finally got it to work! Thanks for your help. It was the WP Priority setting that put it over the top. Switching it to "High" from "Medium" did the trick with your suggested setup.

 

 

Yep - always use ‘high’ priory in that circumstance. ??