Activated Planes do not connect to waypoint

[IckyATLAS]

I had to review the design  logic of my missions to reduce time dilation.

This means that events are triggered according to certain conditions instead of being all active around the map all the time.

This also implies that I have a certain number of planes or plane flights (leader and wingmen) that are deactivated at game start and are activated when conditions are right.

I have experienced a problem here. Deactivated planes that get activated through an MCU Trigger Activate, will not follow their waypoint once this is triggered by a target link.

All seems as if a deactivated plane cuts its object link with its waypoint. When the waypoint is activated it does not link with its corresponding plane.

If instead of an MCU Trigger Activate I use a Trigger Spawn, then all works well and the plane does indeed go to the designed waypoint.

The big problem here is that you cannot spawn a formation flight with leader and wingmen, but you can activate a formation flight with leader and wingmen but after activation you can do nothing with them.

Anybody experienced this issue? is there something I am missing and should do?

 

 

 

[Gambit21]

Icky have you created a simple test mission to post?

 

I haven’t experienced the issue you describe.

[IckyATLAS]

Thanks Gambit. I will make a simple basic mission and test it. If it does not work I will post it.

I find this thing weird, but my main mission being very complex I probably miss something.

[Cynic_Al]

Do you activate the planes and waypoint simultaneously?  I'm not saying it won't work, but I would always have a delay between the two, activating the objects before the waypoint.

Edited October 26, 2020 by Cynic_Al

[JG7_X-Man]

22 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

I had to review the design  logic of my missions to reduce time dilation.

This means that events are triggered according to certain conditions instead of being all active around the map all the time.

This also implies that I have a certain number of planes or plane flights (leader and wingmen) that are deactivated at game start and are activated when conditions are right.

I have experienced a problem here. Deactivated planes that get activated through an MCU Trigger Activate, will not follow their waypoint once this is triggered by a target link.

All seems as if a deactivated plane cuts its object link with its waypoint. When the waypoint is activated it does not link with its corresponding plane.

If instead of an MCU Trigger Activate I use a Trigger Spawn, then all works well and the plane does indeed go to the designed waypoint.

The big problem here is that you cannot spawn a formation flight with leader and wingmen, but you can activate a formation flight with leader and wingmen but after activation you can do nothing with them.

Anybody experienced this issue? is there something I am missing and should do?

 

 

 

 

Sounds like a timer issue to me. If they spawn but fly around in circles that it - I suggest reading @JimTM's use of timers. If your mission is very big, your CPU needs time to process the conditions precedent before the conditions subsequent. My guess is the waypoints are firing before the aircraft spawn into the mission, thus missing the command.

Edited October 26, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Jaegermeister]

6 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Thanks Gambit. I will make a simple basic mission and test it. If it does not work I will post it.

I find this thing weird, but my main mission being very complex I probably miss something.

 

@IckyATLAS This logic always works. 100%. The planes are not enabled.

 

Initial input to Trigger Activate command MCU - 1 second or whatever you want. It's 2 seconds here.

1 second timer to select formation

2 second timer to activate waypoint - gives them time to sort the formation command

Always align formation towards the waypoint or they may crash

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[IckyATLAS]

Thanks to all for the replies. I found where was the problem.

I have used the Activate Trigger to activate the planes with an object link AND start a timer to activate the first Waypoint with a target link.

In the manual for the MCU Trigger Activate it is mentioned that it can have target links as an output for certain MCUs.

I did not test if it was the case for the the MCU Trigger Timer, and I can confirm that an output target link from an Activate Trigger to a Timer Trigger will not work. 

As usual we learn things the hard way. Testing, testing, testing, it is never enough. ? 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[JimTM]

1 hour ago, IckyATLAS said:

Thanks to all for the replies. I found where was the problem.

I have used the Activate Trigger to activate the planes with an object link AND start a timer to activate the first Waypoint with a target link.

In the manual for the MCU Trigger Activate it is mentioned that it can have target links as an output for certain MCUs.

I did not test if it was the case for the the MCU Trigger Timer, and I can confirm that an output target link from an Activate Trigger to a Timer Trigger will not work. 

As usual we learn things the hard way. Testing, testing, testing, it is never enough. ? 

 

 

 

A target link from an activate trigger to a timer trigger is valid. If you deactivated the timer then the activate trigger will reactivate that timer, making it ready to be triggered by another MCU.

[JG7_X-Man]

9 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Thanks to all for the replies. I found where was the problem.

I have used the Activate Trigger to activate the planes with an object link AND start a timer to activate the first Waypoint with a target link.

In the manual for the MCU Trigger Activate it is mentioned that it can have target links as an output for certain MCUs.

I did not test if it was the case for the the MCU Trigger Timer, and I can confirm that an output target link from an Activate Trigger to a Timer Trigger will not work. 

As usual we learn things the hard way. Testing, testing, testing, it is never enough. ? 

 

 

That is not a correct statement!

Edited October 28, 2020 by JG7_X-Man

[Gambit21]

7 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

A target link from an activate trigger to a timer trigger is valid. If you deactivated the timer then the activate trigger will reactivate that timer, making it ready to be triggered by another MCU.

 

Aye...allowing for boolean gateways, switchboards and other such brain twisters that keep me laying awake designing in my head when I should be sleeping.

[IckyATLAS]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:20 PM, Jaegermeister said:

 

@IckyATLAS This logic always works. 100%. The planes are not enabled.

 

Initial input to Trigger Activate command MCU - 1 second or whatever you want. It's 2 seconds here.

1 second timer to select formation

2 second timer to activate waypoint - gives them time to sort the formation command

Always align formation towards the waypoint or they may crash

 

 

 

Maybe I was not that clear. Thanks to Jaegermeister's schematic here is the point. In this schematic we see that Trigger Activate will activate the planes only. The waypoint WP1 is triggered by a separate path of three timers. This will work.

My initial model was a simpler logic by taking away the 2sFW190 Timer and target link the Trigger Activate directly to the 1s Timer. This will make a simpler scheme but unfortunately it will not work. 1s Timer will not be triggered. This is the issue I was having.

If you place a Trigger Spawn instead of the Trigger Activate then the target link from Trigger Spawn to 1s Timer works but as you cannot spawn entire flights with leader and wingman that is not interesting in my case. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[jollyjack]

On 10/26/2020 at 11:20 PM, Jaegermeister said:

 

@IckyATLAS This logic always works. 100%. The planes are not enabled.

 

Initial input to Trigger Activate command MCU - 1 second or whatever you want. It's 2 seconds here.

1 second timer to select formation

2 second timer to activate waypoint - gives them time to sort the formation command

Always align formation towards the waypoint or they may crash

 

 

Thanks for this tip, i just ran in to a similar situation with ships, too many active at once.

Of course ships formation works differently, but might be useful with another situation involving many tanks.

Can you activate 3 ships at the same time with one activate trigger?  i guess a timer is not possible after the activation trigger.

 

One (stupid of course) Q: I take it that the 2s FW 190 Timer here (bottom one) is the basic one that gets the enabling trigger from a spawner, waypoint from some other happening like a plane passing, or via a ckeckzone etc. And i should also always switch off enabled in advanced properties for the ships, tanks etc too.

 

Ships setup example, not tested yet ...:

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by jollyjack

[IckyATLAS]

You can activate as many ships or planes or vehicles etc. as you want.

[Jaegermeister]

14 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

In this schematic we see that Trigger Activate will activate the planes only. The waypoint WP1 is triggered by a separate path of three timers. This will work.

My initial model was a simpler logic by taking away the 2sFW190 Timer and target link the Trigger Activate directly to the 1s Timer. This will make a simpler scheme but unfortunately it will not work. 1s Timer will not be triggered. This is the issue I was having.

If you place a Trigger Spawn instead of the Trigger Activate then the target link from Trigger Spawn to 1s Timer works but as you cannot spawn entire flights with leader and wingman that is not interesting in my case. 

 

All of those points are correct. After extensive testing, I have reduced it as far as possible without getting into Milliseconds.

 

13 hours ago, jollyjack said:

Of course ships formation works differently, but might be useful with another situation involving many tanks.

Tank formations work exactly the same as planes. They follow waypoints, but have more formations you have to account for. I believe ships work the same as ground vehicles, but I have not done much with ship formations and behavior.

 

Can you activate 3 ships at the same time with one activate trigger? 

You can activate multiple vehicles with 1 Activate MCU

 

i guess a timer is not possible after the activation trigger.

Correct, put the timer before the Activate MCU

 

I take it that the 2s FW 190 Timer here (bottom one) is the basic one that gets the enabling trigger from a spawner, waypoint from some other happening like a plane passing, or via a ckeckzone etc.

Yes, but not from a Spawn MCU, it has to be a trigger. Timer, Waypoint, Complex Trigger, Checkzone, etc.

 

And i should also always switch off enabled in advanced properties for the ships, tanks etc too

Yes, or they will be sitting there stationary the whole mission.

 

Ships setup example, not tested yet ...:

It looks fine, but I highly recommend you not trigger more than 2 items with each timer. That's why each timer in my FW190 example triggers an event and then another timer. I have had many issues of MCUs not being triggered traced back to a timer triggering 3 or more other events. Stay with 2 and you will be good. This also works 100% of the time. If you randomly don't get all 3 of those waypoints to activate, it's the timer and one of the ships will not move. Super frustrating to diagnose, but easy to prevent.

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[jollyjack]

Thanks both for your extensive replies ..... could use some advice still, but i was planning to do some experimenting myself first.

It's too complicated to show the ME setup here with groups and also grouped planes involved. But the ships here involved need some testing first.

 

This is my situation: Kuban Kerch area ...... 4 Russ torpedo boats attack 2 groups of moving German Destroyer-protected Cargo/oil convoys en route towards Kerch Harbor. 

 

Tried both AttackArea addressing the whole area (ground and ground targets on).

Also an Attack command setup. Attack CMD Event OnDamaged pointing to trigger a counter set to 6x, reset after operation off,

This counter points to a timer and this timer to a force complete for the torpedo boats to go home via a waypointed route..

 

I must have setup something wrong, because the torpedo boats always stop dead in the water at their last waypoint latter pointing to the attack commands, both attack setups.

Been shopping for some example groups but did not find anything yet. Ships must act differently than planes; a setup as in use here works also with tanks.

Attack CMD and waypoints are Oject linked to the torpedoboats, even tried individual Attack Commands.

As if the torpedo-boats run out of fuel at the last waypoint, they slow down first ..... they don't obey their attack commands

 

I'll try to make a simple setup first for further testing, and place a pic here later ....

[jollyjack]

ADDED: i really begin to think a torpedoboat has a limited action range by default and runs out of fuel ....

[Jaegermeister]

You should post the test mission. It's hard to diagnose from a description.

 

It sounds like the Force Complete is deleting your waypoint assignment. Consider the Force Complete MCU as an eraser. It will make the AI forget anything they have been assigned before it is triggered. If it is fired at the same time as an attack command, it will assist the Vehicle to complete the attack. That has to be triggered at the same time by a CZ or other trigger.

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

You should post the test mission. It's hard to diagnose from a description.

 

It sounds like the Force Complete is deleting your waypoint assignment. Consider the Force Complete MCU as an eraser. It will make the AI forget anything they have been assigned before it is triggered. If it is fired at the same time as an attack command, it will assist the Vehicle to complete the attack. That has to be triggered at the same time by a CZ or other trigger.

 

I always offset the Force Complete by a short (arbitrary) time interval. Is your habit to fire it simultaneously with other MCUs?

[Jaegermeister]

On 10/29/2020 at 5:03 PM, Gambit21 said:

 

I always offset the Force Complete by a short (arbitrary) time interval. Is your habit to fire it simultaneously with other MCUs?

 

Only when I use it with a Checkzone Activate Command like Artillery or AA. Then I use a Force Complete at the same time. One of the Devs mentioned somewhere in the past that in assists the Artillery to fire correctly. I originally copied the logic from a QMB Mission and  kept that part in place.

 

Other than that, like deactivating an Attack Area MCU, I use a 1 second time delay, then force complete, then activate the next waypoint or whatever.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

6 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Only when I use it with a Checkzone Activate Command like Artillery or AA. Then I use a Force Complete at the same time. One of the Devs mentioned somewhere in the past that in assists the Artillery to fire correctly. I originally copied the logic from a QMB Mission and  kept that part in place.

 

Other than that, like deactivating an Attack Area MCU, I use a 1 second time delay, then force complete, then activate the next waypoint or whatever.

 

 

 

I see.

FYI I normally forgo the attack area for AA and simply use Force Complete unless for some reason I want them to attack a certain area of sky only (basically never)

 

For artillery I often (almost always) need them attacking a certain spot so use both with slight time delay between them. Now I know that I can forget the time delay.

[JG7_X-Man]

On 10/25/2020 at 7:02 PM, IckyATLAS said:

...I have experienced a problem here. Deactivated planes that get activated through an MCU Trigger Activate, will not follow their waypoint once this is triggered by a target link.

Anybody experienced this issue? is there something I am missing and should do?

@IckyATLAS My bad! I have experienced that! I re-read your post! 

 

I had to activate the WP on mission start.