Drop tanks

[ilmavoimat]

Does anyone know if there are any plans to add drop tanks to the loadouts of applicable aircraft when the Normandy map is released?

[Eisenfaustus]

There is no specific date but yes - they are planned as soon as the fuel system is reworked. 

[SYN_Vander]

I hope this also affects Flying Circus: Not so much drop tanks, but many planes had a small 'gravity' fuel tank for emergencies.

[Enceladus828]

For the past 2 years they've stated that they want to improve the aircraft fuel systems and add drop tanks.

A question I have is what improvements are we getting, the ability to select fuel tanks like Left, Right, Aux, Both? Helpful for when you have a fuel leak.

 

IMO, drop tanks probably should have added ~ the time BoS came out as I'm sure that German fighters flying from German territory into the ring likely would have been equipped with drop tanks for that long flight.

 

Salute.

[Hirachi]

Not sure if it be worth for the current maps as most fighter don't need full fuel to get to target... and the bombers you can get away with almost 40% fuel.  But if they do the German planes could use that 300liter drop tank lol

 

[EAF19_Marsh]

Always thought the Tempest looked quite cool with tanks. There is a study out there on the web (from the time) that concluded for combat purposes - once fuel was used - the tanks had marginal impact on perfirmance.

[Avimimus]

3 hours ago, 336th_Hirachi said:

Not sure if it be worth for the current maps as most fighter don't need full fuel to get to target... and the bombers you can get away with almost 40% fuel.  But if they do the German planes could use that 300liter drop tank lol

 

There should be a lot of AI aircraft in theatre flying with tanks from airfields further away... and we can always have air-starts! So, for historical purposes... it is still useful. Also, it better captures things like Fw-190A4/U18 (effectively G precursors with a centre bomb and a pair of wing tanks) flying anti-shipping missions over the channel ...of course, we're lacking the A4 for the foreseeable future.

[Enceladus828]

1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Always thought the Tempest looked quite cool with tanks.

[AWC]

7 hours ago, Enceladus said:

IMO, drop tanks probably should have added ~ the time BoS came out as I'm sure that German fighters flying from German territory into the ring likely would have been equipped with drop tanks for that long flight.

 

If not then, it should have been released for Bodenplatte as pretty much all German aircraft used droptanks in that operation, and it was also widely used by the Allies at that time.

[Gretsch_Man]

5 hours ago, Lemsip said:

 

If not then, it should have been released for Bodenplatte as pretty much all German aircraft used droptanks in that operation, and it was also widely used by the Allies at that time.

Not only that, but missions for the Me109 on the Bodenplatte map often pushes the limits of how much gas that airplane can carry without droptanks. For other planes I think this is less of an issue. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

9 hours ago, Enceladus said:

 

[Guest deleted@50488]

I believe 1C / 777 intend to implement a complete update of the fuel system, allowing for tank selection as well as drop.

Edited October 26, 2020 by jcomm-in-il2

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

24 minutes ago, jcomm-in-il2 said:

I believe 1C / 777 intentions are a complete update of the fuel system, allowing for tank selection as well as drop.

Yes , and maybe if we lucky true incendiary .

[kendo]

11 hours ago, Lemsip said:

 

If not then, it should have been released for Bodenplatte as pretty much all German aircraft used droptanks in that operation, and it was also widely used by the Allies at that time.

 

I believe the original plan was to release it with Bodenplatte. It was just one of those things that got delayed and pushed back.

[Burdokva]

18 hours ago, Enceladus said:

IMO, drop tanks probably should have added ~ the time BoS came out as I'm sure that German fighters flying from German territory into the ring likely would have been equipped with drop tanks for that long flight.

 

Salute.

 

No drop tanks were available for the Luftwaffe at Stalingrad. They arrived too late, only in February 1942, by which point the air lift had failed and 6th Army had collapsed. Source: Bergstrom's Vol. 4 of Black Cross/Red Star.

 

Mentioning this because I also wondered why none were implemented with BoS, in fact, it's historically accurate. 

 

I do agree drop tanks are very needed to represent a variety of mission types and I am eagerly waiting them (at the very least - to give you more loitering time in multiplayer).

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

19 hours ago, ilmavoimat said:

Does anyone know if there are any plans to add drop tanks to the loadouts of applicable aircraft when the Normandy map is released?

 

Yes there are. The dev team has talked briefly about it a few times as something that they wanted to do alongside a more complete simulation of fuel system management. It was mentioned as a major item to do after the damage model was updated which happened several months ago now. It's likely being actively worked on right now.

[sevenless]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:15 AM, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Very nice shot. Where was that taken? Landscape look more german than dutch?

[AWC]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Very nice shot. Where was that taken? Landscape look more german than dutch?

 

According to Clostermann's book The Big Show it is along the Dortmund-Ems Canal in Germany.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Lemsip

[EAF19_Marsh]

3 hours ago, Lemsip said:

 

According to Clostermann's book The Big Show it is along the Dortmund-Ems Canal in Germany.

That’s what I recall. I suspect it is not far from where Sheddan talks about barge flak-traps.

 

It’s a cracking picture - really captures the power, form and menace of the Tempest

[Alexmarine]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:03 PM, Burdokva said:

 

No drop tanks were available for the Luftwaffe at Stalingrad. They arrived too late, only in February 1942, by which point the air lift had failed and 6th Army had collapsed. Source: Bergstrom's Vol. 4 of Black Cross/Red Star.

 

You mean 1943?

[Burdokva]

@Alexmarine yes, typo on my part, thanks! February 1943. 

[Gambit21]

How many people have asked about drop tanks?

 

How many people are willing to sit in front of their computer and fly for a long enough period to need a drop tank?

 

I have no idea about the first number, but I have a pretty good grasp of the second one.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Gambit21

[Pierre64]

14 hours ago, Lemsip said:

 

According to Clostermann's book The Big Show it is along the Dortmund-Ems Canal in Germany.

The little city on the left of the photograph is Riesenbeck, in Nordrhein-Westfalen, with the bell tower of Sankt Kalixtus Church.

 

[FTC_HK]

You'd be surprised @Gambit21 I can speak for the whole of ACG when I say we would definitely find a use for drop tanks. Currently we have started using the refuelling/rearming feature in our Kuban campaign, drop tanks would be something we would use for sure

[Gambit21]

12 minutes ago, ACG_HardeKoning said:

You'd be surprised @Gambit21 I can speak for the whole of ACG when I say we would definitely find a use for drop tanks. Currently we have started using the refuelling/rearming feature in our Kuban campaign, drop tanks would be something we would use for sure

 

I’m sure you’d use them if available, but that wasn’t really my point.  I’ve done enough content development and testing with people by now to know what the general tolerance is. 

 

Most guys balk at even a 45 minute ingress. That said, I realize there are exceptions here and there.

 

 In any case, Normandy is going to force some longer flight times.

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by Gambit21

[Avimimus]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

I’m sure you’d use them if available, but that wasn’t really my point.  I’ve done enough content development and testing with people by now to know what the general tolerance is. 

 

Most guys balk at even a 45 minute ingress. That said, I realize there are exceptions here and there.

 

That said, Normandy is going to force some longer flight times.

 

Honestly, I'd use the campaigns a lot more if they included an airstart near the objective with a total flight time of 10-15 minutes max... and I've been flying challenging sims for years. A lot of the older sims had a time-skip feature. A number of others had the optional ability to 'drop-in' to an aircraft in flight (e.g. Falcon 4, Eurofighter 2000)... it is probably the feature I miss most.

 

I honestly got a lot of the old Red Baron missions which consisted of a series of 'encounters' strung together... it made it easy to experience the entire war with one squadron, and then experience the entire war with another... to do a whole bunch of campaigns over multiple years in a single weekend even! All the different flavours of flight... and the sense of novelty was a great experience.

 

Now we have >45 minute missions where you fly the same aircraft in the same theatre for week after week... it is more realistic sure... but it doesn't scratch the itch for me... I spend more time in GB QMB or making short 10 minute missions in the Cliffs/Tobruk FMB.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

10 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

How many people are willing to sit in front of their computer and fly for a long enough period to need a drop tank?

 

I think that you can make a case for drop tanks even if players rarely actually need the extra fuel - discretionary historical role-playing and atmospheric AI loadouts. After all, they are very distinctive items that were used quite frequently.

 

Depending on the specifics of the fuel system modeling , there is also the possibility of MP exploits involving drop tanks combined with small amounts of internal fuel to maximize performance when entering combat.

 

That said, I think it's completely understandable that they were omitted from the game for now.

[FTC_HK]

That's a campaign of 150 people doing using them weekly for a very lengthy campaign, its not insignificant. Of course your average CoBo player will think its pointless, but its not all about them @Gambit21

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, ACG_HardeKoning said:

That's a campaign of 150 people doing using them weekly for a very lengthy campaign, its not insignificant. Of course your average CoBo player will think its pointless, but its not all about them @Gambit21

 

I completely understand where you’re coming from, and I’m not saying drop tanks are not a good thing to have as an option. I also know what I know - the two things do not exclude each other.

[Enceladus828]

36 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

How many people are willing to sit in front of their computer and fly for a long enough period to need a drop tank?

A solution could be using the Speed Bar

 

11 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

That said, I think it's completely understandable that they were omitted from the game for now.

Well, yes, because for most of the aerial activity that took place in battles covered in the Eastern Front portion of this game they were all near the front.

 

Now, for Bodenplatte/Rhineland and Normandy, we're going to need Drop Tanks due to the long distance flights. An example could be escorting fighter bombers and bombers, though we're still a way from the latter.

[Burdokva]

I regularly go out of fuel in my trusty 109 in multiplayer. And I expect that a drop tank would be useful in coop missions, something I plan to join as soon as my headset arrives.

 

I'd say add a minimum amount of internal fuel (50% at least) when a drop tank is used. While even in real life the tactic of flying with partially filled fuel tanks wasn't unheard of, no sane pilot would want (or would be allowed) to take of with just a couple dozen litres of fuel and ditch his plane because he ran out in just five minutes after combat was joined. As to periods when air forces were fuel starved and planes had to fly with less than full tanks due to necessity... well, drop tanks weren't even a luxury then, just weren't used.

 

The problem is that some mission types just can't be recreated without drop tanks.

 

And this also ties up with air starts or time skipping - if singleplayer was more "dynamic" (enemy planes not spawning according to your mission, random chance of encounter en-route, random chance of airfield strafing attack during takeoff, etc) then using drop tanks wouldn't be an issue as one would be more motivated to fly for prolonged periods.

[AWC]

5 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

How many people have asked about drop tanks?

 

How many people are willing to sit in front of their computer and fly for a long enough period to need a drop tank?

 

I have no idea about the first number, but I have a pretty good grasp of the second one.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I dont see the point in the saying 'if I never fly long enough to use up a full fuel load Ill never use droptanks'. What I would appreciate with droptanks is the recognition of their historic significance to the battles portrayed in IL-2. As they were widely used by all sides, they deserve to be included for functionality and historical authenticity. I also look forward to the added fuel system benefits that will likely arrive with drop tanks.

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, Lemsip said:

 

Personally, I dont see the point in the saying 'if I never fly long enough to use up a full fuel load Ill never use droptanks'. What I would appreciate with droptanks is the recognition of their historic significance to the battles portrayed in IL-2. As they were widely used by all sides, they deserve to be included for functionality and historical authenticity. I also look forward to the added fuel system benefits that will likely arrive with drop tanks.

 

Fair points.

I'm looking for the fuel system additions as well.

[EAF19_Marsh]

11 hours ago, Pierre64 said:

The little city on the left of the photograph is Riesenbeck, in Nordrhein-Westfalen, with the bell tower of Sankt Kalixtus Church.

 

Was looking at Risenbeck a few moments ago on Google Maps in a vague effort to work out where the pic was taken.

[Pierre64]

2 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Was looking at Risenbeck a few moments ago on Google Maps in a vague effort to work out where the pic was taken.

[Bremspropeller]

Marsh and Pierre are spot on - the church's roof has exactly the shape shown in the picture above. It's Riesenbeck, just ESE of Rheine.

JFoE is roughly tracking SSE.

 

Looks like the photo was taken in the later afternoon, given the shadows of the trees.

Also note the bomb-crater (on the channel) and the tracks on the field upper right of the vertical stabilizer.

Looks like the house on the channel is gone today...

[DD_Arthur]

On 10/28/2020 at 5:55 PM, Gambit21 said:

I have no idea about the first number, but I have a pretty good grasp of the second one.

Hands up everyone who flew the P51 in IL2 1946??

[Pierre64]

On 10/31/2020 at 1:43 PM, Bremspropeller said:

Looks like the photo was taken in the later afternoon, given the shadows of the trees.

 

Another view of Clostermann's JF-E (most probably NV 994) during this photo report flight along the Dortmund-Ems Kanal, taken by the famous photographer Charles E. Brown (1896-1982) on 18-04-1945 from a Taylorcraft Auster.

 

Btw, do you know the drop tanks streamlined pylons of Tempests were made with transparent plastic ? 

  

 

[Bremspropeller]

6 hours ago, Pierre64 said:

Another view of Clostermann's JF-E (most probably NV 994) during this photo report flight along the Dortmund-Ems Kanal, taken by the famous photographer Charles E. Brown (1896-1982) on 18-04-1945 from a Taylorcraft Auster.

 

On the enlarged version in Chris Thomas' book, one can see that the flaps are partially down, which I find curious.

Probably to slow down for the Auster ?