Discussion of GAZ-MM 72-K and Sd.Kfz. 10/5 Flak 38 Vehicle Mounted AAA Pre-Orders

[Tuesday]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Yes you can, look in the Command Behavior MCU advanced properties and you will see a check box for Limit Ammo. If you wanted to do the "Supply Drop" you guys mentioned earlier. You could set it up where the plane dropped cargo - time delay - disable limited ammo with CB - then disable unlimited ammo after rearm is complete = Rearm supply drop and back to limited ammo.

 

 

Thanks, I had hoped this was possible.  Hopefully if combined arms use in online play becomes more popular we'll get more chances to do this. 

 

Cheers

[PopsiclePete]

@Jason_Williams, could we expect “improvements” to aircraft ground handling, following the release of the gaz, or is it something the team is looking into? 
 

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by PopsiclePete

[Lofte]

On 9/24/2020 at 5:57 PM, Thad said:

Capitalism!

Spoiler

 

 

[messsucher]

6 minutes ago, Lofte said:

  Hide contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What movie is that? Arnold from that would make a great VVS commander in IL-2 ? ? ?

[Lofte]

1 minute ago, messsucher said:

What movie is that? Arnold from that would make a great VVS commander in IL-2 ? ? ?

"Red heat"

[FlyingNutcase]

11 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Oh, I’ll troll the **** out of those guys by flying around them in circles at 1500m until they wish they had thought this thing through.  Be sure. 

 

It would take about 90 seconds for a mobile AAA vehicle to drive 1km from a target area to conceal himself within the edge of a forest. In the meantime, the attackers are gracefully taking off, salivating with their cunning troll plan.

[PatrickAWlson]

Always interesting how people yell at each other on the internet - as though it's going to change their minds.  Also interesting how basically factual arguments get emotional, like are the flak vehicles worth it.  It's also interesting how quickly people are outraged, either by the price of something or by the opinion of the next guy.

 

It's not an emotional issue.  Nobody should be shedding a tear over the flak vehicles.

The price is not a source of outrage.  It is what the company feels is needed to recoup costs and turn a fair profit.  Purchase or don't as you see fit.

You're also not going to change the other guy's mind.  One loves it, the other thinks it's too expensive, some even seem to dislike that it exists.  Well, it does exist, and you can buy it, or you can choose not to buy it.

 

I think that covers the options.  Now back to our regular programming.

 

[Thad]

Patrick... there you go trying to insert common sense and reason onto our forums. A bold foray. 

[Mm1ut1]

I’m hugely disappointed!! 
Waiting for the deuce and a half...........

 

 

Just Kidding ! 
??????????
Order placed !,,

Edited September 25, 2020 by Mm1ut1
Update

[Lord_Strange]

I have one question about the AAA vehicles. Since they are collector vehicles and as such not tied down to a particular module such as Tank Crew, will they only be able to spawn at tank spawns or will they also be available from airfields? 

 

I ask this because these vehicles would be really useful for defending friendly airfields in MP against the dreaded vulchers, but since most missions run by the popular servers don't include tank spawns this would be impossible most of the time. Also spawning at an airfield would save a potentially long and tedious drive there, by which point there might be no friendly aircraft left to defend.

[IckyATLAS]

Sometimes just ignoring some posts calms things down by themselves. Otherwise its like oil on fire.

[Alexander9822]

I just hope that there will be versions of these vehicles like a repair truck and a refuel/rearm truck that can be used with Tank Crew, Where the player can drive up to Tanks and get points for helping in repairing or for refueling and rearming them.

[HR_Tumu]

For me is a great addition.

Well placed on servers for fast use can be really funny.

 

[Frequent_Flyer]

On 9/25/2020 at 6:50 AM, messsucher said:

 

It is. A new player go check the store page and see a long list of DLCs totaling in 1000 euro. What will he do next? He will lol and go buy something else at best, at worst he go somewhere else and post a few messages about crazy IL-2 DLC fest, spreading bad impressions.

 

Just because some die hard flight simmers think 20 to 30 euro per piece is fair enough it does not make it so in the eyes of great majority of the gamers. They will just think it is overpriced crap. And there you go then, hand in hand with Train Sim train. You only get people who are nuts on the genre. The only growth you can get is by asking even more of the new DLC, making the downward spiral deeper.

 

This said more reasonably priced DLCs do not guarantee growth. WW2 flight simming is a niche, but it will be like guaranteed to be a niche with high one piece  DLC prices. So the choices are take a risk and lower prices and not get more sales, leading to decreased development. Or keep prices high, guaranteed to keep niche and get some development.

 

In my opinion serious marketing efforts is needed, and the best way to make marketing is to begin to make esports competitions. Flight Sims have like way more depth than CS:GO and could be way more entertaining to watch, especially now with combined arms in IL-2.

 

So there should be major and minor tournaments. Minor tournaments would be 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3, and 4vs4 scrambles. Major tournaments would be mini campaigns, say 5 sequential mission sets for combined arms. Ultimate tournament would be a major campaign.

 

Balance issues would be severe, but those could be dealt with by limiting the availability of certain planes, and maybe even by letting the losing side get better planes as reinforcements.

 

It is a slow uphill struggle, but steps must be taken, even if one step at a time, which is anyway how you get anywhere, one step at a time, and after thousands of steps you are somewhere.

No one is forcing you  to purchase this product. In my experience , the rest of the forum is better off if you do not !  I for one could careless about your " entertainment " budget that is your personal issue, not the forum members.

Edited September 26, 2020 by Frequent_Flyer

[messsucher]

2 minutes ago, Frequent_Flyer said:

No one is forcing you  to purchase this product. In my experience , the rest of the forum is better off if you do not !  I for one could careless about your " entertainment " budget that is your personal issue, not the forum members.

 

*blonk*

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/25/2020 at 6:45 AM, LF_Tigre91 said:

I think that $25 per collector ''tank'' (no offers in mind) is too expensive (I don't know what will be the final result).

 

Full price of TC is $80: $8/tank

 

It can be really bad for TC future.

Just pointing out that what you would be paying today is $20 per, and what you paid for the TC module itself is $70.00, and I am guessing that in time both will be offered at an even bigger discounted price going by the history here.

 

But if we are going to express our feelings about the value of any given product, shouldn't the products purpose also be included as a part of the discussion.  The collector planes/vehicles are intended to be used on any map, but I see the new collector vehicles as an important part of helping improve game play between planes and tanks. Its not a lot of fun driving a tank around with a swarm of 40 birds over head simply to provide players in planes target practice.

 

And I find it amazing that countless people here have pointed out that most servers don't have tank spawns, and the ones that do aren't attracting enough players in tanks, only to turn around and criticize the developers for trying to improve on that situation.

 

If pilots want more ground based target rich environments, and tank squads want to feel like they can be part of the action, then something exactly like the AA guns just announced are a giant step forward in that direction. And that can only be a really good thing.

[Jade_Monkey]

4 hours ago, Lord_Strange said:

I have one question about the AAA vehicles. Since they are collector vehicles and as such not tied down to a particular module such as Tank Crew, will they only be able to spawn at tank spawns or will they also be available from airfields? 

 

I ask this because these vehicles would be really useful for defending friendly airfields in MP against the dreaded vulchers, but since most missions run by the popular servers don't include tank spawns this would be impossible most of the time. Also spawning at an airfield would save a potentially long and tedious drive there, by which point there might be no friendly aircraft left to defend.

 

The mission creator would have to create vehicle spawns near airfields for the AAA vehicles. Pretty simple to do.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, Lord_Strange said:

I have one question about the AAA vehicles. Since they are collector vehicles and as such not tied down to a particular module such as Tank Crew, will they only be able to spawn at tank spawns or will they also be available from airfields? 

 

I ask this because these vehicles would be really useful for defending friendly airfields in MP against the dreaded vulchers, but since most missions run by the popular servers don't include tank spawns this would be impossible most of the time. Also spawning at an airfield would save a potentially long and tedious drive there, by which point there might be no friendly aircraft left to defend.

 

I believe that any vehicle and be made to spawn anywhere on any map provided the mission designer includes it.  If the mission designer does not add it then it won't be available.

[Lord_Strange]

9 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I believe that any vehicle and be made to spawn anywhere on any map provided the mission designer includes it.  If the mission designer does not add it then it won't be available.

In that case I hope enough mission designers decide to include the AA vehicles, even if they don't include tanks. This has the potential to really change the dynamic of multiplayer missions.

[Jaegermeister]

15 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I believe that any vehicle and be made to spawn anywhere on any map provided the mission designer includes it.  If the mission designer does not add it then it won't be available.

 

That is correct.

 

Currently multiplayer vehicles spawn where they are placed on the mission map. If they are not occupied, they become AI and would then need waypoint or attack commands to do anything.

 

I'm going to guess these vehicles will behave the same. 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:50 AM, messsucher said:

 

It is. A new player go check the store page and see a long list of DLCs totaling in 1000 euro. What will he do next? He will lol and go buy something else at best, at worst he go somewhere else and post a few messages about crazy IL-2 DLC fest, spreading bad impressions.

 

Just because some die hard flight simmers think 20 to 30 euro per piece is fair enough it does not make it so in the eyes of great majority of the gamers. They will just think it is overpriced crap. And there you go then, hand in hand with Train Sim train. You only get people who are nuts on the genre. The only growth you can get is by asking even more of the new DLC, making the downward spiral deeper.

 

This said more reasonably priced DLCs do not guarantee growth. WW2 flight simming is a niche, but it will be like guaranteed to be a niche with high one piece  DLC prices. So the choices are take a risk and lower prices and not get more sales, leading to decreased development. Or keep prices high, guaranteed to keep niche and get some development.

 

In my opinion serious marketing efforts is needed, and the best way to make marketing is to begin to make esports competitions. Flight Sims have like way more depth than CS:GO and could be way more entertaining to watch, especially now with combined arms in IL-2.

 

So there should be major and minor tournaments. Minor tournaments would be 1vs1, 2vs2, 3vs3, and 4vs4 scrambles. Major tournaments would be mini campaigns, say 5 sequential mission sets for combined arms. Ultimate tournament would be a major campaign.

 

Balance issues would be severe, but those could be dealt with by limiting the availability of certain planes, and maybe even by letting the losing side get better planes as reinforcements.

 

It is a slow uphill struggle, but steps must be taken, even if one step at a time, which is anyway how you get anywhere, one step at a time, and after thousands of steps you are somewhere.

Judging by your signature, you bought one module when it was discounted just as I did with the BOS. Personally, I couldn't be more happy with the BOS purchase. A great map with a lot of content at a great price. Would you recommend the BOK module? I am trying to decide between that and the BOM as my next map.

 

If you enjoy flight sims, and I think you have checked  that box or you wouldn't be here, then my advice would be to slowly add to your GB collection as sales happen. Which probably means you don't need to consider the new collector vehicles just announced.

 

Personally, I think they represent great value not just because of the digital models I will be getting, but because of what it represents as an addition to my Tank Crew experience.

[messsucher]

11 minutes ago, LachenKrieg said:

Judging by your signature, you bought one module when it was discounted just as I did with the BOS. Personally, I couldn't be more happy with the BOS purchase. A great map with a lot of content at a great price. Would you recommend the BOK module? I am trying to decide between that and the BOM as my next map.

 

If you enjoy flight sims, and I think you have checked  that box or you wouldn't be here, then my advice would be to slowly add to your GB collection as sales happen. Which probably means you don't need to consider the new collector vehicles just announced.

 

Personally, I think they represent great value not just because of the digital models I will be getting, but because of what it represents as an addition to my Tank Crew experience.

 

Well, I may be a bit dumb or something but I buy every DLC I can of games I like, and there is no questions will I ever need the DLC. I like this BoX series and will buy everything they release on it, even if was a Japanese courier bicycle in Burma scenario ?

 

I bought both BoS and BoM full price. I wanted BoM only, but since I wanted to have BoM I had to buy BoS first in Steam.

 

Regarding BoS and BoK you should ask do you like early planes more than mid planes, meaning do you like performance or are you fine with a little bit "crappy" planes. Do you want to challenge yourself and do Ironman campaign from beginning to end, going through all expansions? Do you like to see water and have ships as targets? You get those in BoK but not in BoM.

 

I would say BoK is awesome because of mid tier plane set and because of water. BoS is a little bit for diligent history buffs, and in a way navigation wise claustrophobic because of no sea. Sea makes it much more easy to orient yourself in the map, if you play full realistic.

 

BoS, however, would have to be taken away off my dead body, would hold it to the end. It is just the pain I would expect of Battle of Moscow. The winter is coming... :D

 

If you want nice cool time, then BoK, if you want hard time, then BoS, in my humble opinion.

[LachenKrieg]

On 9/25/2020 at 8:01 AM, Rjel said:

As one who’s been here since the beginning, I can honestly say the money I’ve spent isn’t regretted a bit. Someone coming along now has lost out on years of enjoyment. The whys and wherefores aren’t anyone’s fault. Certainly not the developers. It isn’t as if this series was kept secret. I look it all as an investment in something I enjoy. If the expense is too much for some, that’s life. There’s plenty of products that are out of my reach too. To buy into this series doesn’t need to be as expensive as you claim. It isn’t a secret either that frequent sales are run. You also don’t need to buy everything at once to get enjoyment out of this series. 
 

All in all, your argument sounds like sour grapes to me. 

I know you meant to focus on the issue of cost, and @messsucher seems to have missed that, but he does make a good point though.

 

The people that have found their way here were either largely into simulation when they arrived, or after discovering it is the reason they stay. i.e. they want and expect the value added realism from a sim for their gaming experience.

 

But the excitement of being able to recreate historical/non-historical battles and play them out is missed by the larger gaming community. And people that are already into the sim experience often have a negative reaction when ever they hear someone suggest the value of playing to a larger crowd. Almost invariably it invokes words like "World of Warplanes, War Thunder, and WoT.

 

The truth is, being able to attract more players from the larger gaming community is likely the best way forward to grow this platform and get more people into the benefits of simulation. And I see no reason to be concerned that the sim quality of the GB series product will be negatively affected if that happened more then it already does. 

 

If the desire is to speed up development of things like the B-51 bomber, then my suggestion would be for the developers here to come up with ways that would help them appeal to the larger gaming community. 

 

I know this is not exactly the point you were responding to, but I choose your comment to avoid what would no doubt cause someone else to fear that attracting players from the War Thunder/WoT crowd would somehow reduce the simulation value of Tank Crew.

 

 

On 9/23/2020 at 1:14 PM, Voidhunger said:

its a nice addition to the game and Im expecting excellent in game 3d model like in TC, but  I dont play MP so I have to skip it.

I get it if you don't see the value in these new collector vehicles, but I just wanted to point out that both of them are meant for SP play as well. In the quick mission builder, you should be able to select "planes" as the AI that you want to spawn into your session, and by flanking the in-game tracked vehicles, you should be able to knock out/damage most of them from the side/rear with either of the guns. We should at least be able to track them from any angle. But it depends on  your game style and what you see as challenging.

 

 

On 9/23/2020 at 9:48 AM, namhee2 said:

I think it's good to develop TC further, I'm excited to see how it will grow in the future.

I'll take two! One in a winter-white-wash so I can drive it around on Sundays.

Edited September 26, 2020 by LachenKrieg

[Rjel]

Just entered my purchase as a show of interest and support. I do think banging away at low flying aircraft will be most enjoyable to me as a real life long time pheasant hunter. Sadly, ring necked pheasants are rare in my parts today but A/C in this game are limitless. While the prey in this game will be larger, faster and have the ability to return fire, so too will my armament be larger, faster firing and in the long run, far cheaper to shoot. 

 

I do hope that this new segment of IL-2 BoX will be successful enough that others will be developed. I'd like to see some U.S. vehicle mounted AA quad fifties or the German Wirbelwind make it in the game in the future.

[migmadmarine]

It will be interesting to see how difficult it will be to actually knock down an aircraft in this sim, I've gotten pretty decent at it in Warthunder with the Werbelwind, but given how much more advanced the damage models in this sim are than that game, I can imagine I'll be able to hit them but not necessarily actually knock them down. 

[LachenKrieg]

3 hours ago, Lord_Strange said:

In that case I hope enough mission designers decide to include the AA vehicles, even if they don't include tanks. This has the potential to really change the dynamic of multiplayer missions.

 

3 hours ago, =5GIAP=Eeafanas said:

Finally, with the addition of anti-aircraft guns, we, the tankers, will be able to resist aviation and this is just a HUGE step towards attracting new players.  After all, our simulator is now developing in different directions, which means that there will be more and more players, which in turn will have a very positive effect on the release of new additions ... I'm happy!

 

 I want to say that I also pre-ordered both anti-aircraft guns!  

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Excuse me for my English, as I write from Russian through a translator)

 

I also want to insert a song here that was first sung in 1948, and it is dedicated specifically to front-line drivers, which are the comrades sitting in the GAZ-MM cab.

 

 

3 hours ago, messsucher said:

 

Well, I may be a bit dumb or something but I buy every DLC I can of games I like, and there is no questions will I ever need the DLC. I like this BoX series and will buy everything they release on it, even if was a Japanese courier bicycle in Burma scenario ?

 

I bought both BoS and BoM full price. I wanted BoM only, but since I wanted to have BoM I had to buy BoS first in Steam.

 

Regarding BoS and BoK you should ask do you like early planes more than mid planes, meaning do you like performance or are you fine with a little bit "crappy" planes. Do you want to challenge yourself and do Ironman campaign from beginning to end, going through all expansions? Do you like to see water and have ships as targets? You get those in BoK but not in BoM.

 

I would say BoK is awesome because of mid tier plane set and because of water. BoS is a little bit for diligent history buffs, and in a way navigation wise claustrophobic because of no sea. Sea makes it much more easy to orient yourself in the map, if you play full realistic.

 

BoS, however, would have to be taken away off my dead body, would hold it to the end. It is just the pain I would expect of Battle of Moscow. The winter is coming... :D

 

If you want nice cool time, then BoK, if you want hard time, then BoS, in my humble opinion.

 

1 hour ago, Rjel said:

Just entered my purchase as a show of interest and support. I do think banging away at low flying aircraft will be most enjoyable to me as a real life long time pheasant hunter. Sadly, ring necked pheasants are rare in my parts today but A/C in this game are limitless. While the prey in this game will be larger, faster and have the ability to return fire, so too will my armament be larger, faster firing and in the long run, far cheaper to shoot. 

 

I do hope that this new segment of IL-2 BoX will be successful enough that others will be developed. I'd like to see some U.S. vehicle mounted AA quad fifties or the German Wirbelwind make it in the game in the future.

I wanted to like/thank these posts, but I have used up all my reactions for today.

[ww2fighter20]

Since the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 was announced I would like to make some suggestions for additional modifications along with potential new units.

 

No WIP pictures of the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 have shown up yet but seeing the black side picture at the pre-order page I suspect it will end up looking like this :

For modifications, the following might be possible:

 

Armor plates added to the driver’s cabin + to the front of the radiator: this is shown in the following picture (another picture at the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer) :

Sd. Ah. 51 Trailer with ammo box : this could be used to carry additional ammo, the following 3 pics show the trailer empty, the trailer with ammo box and the trailer with ammo box behind the 10/5.

No gun shield on the Flak 38:

AP Ammo: We likely will receive HE shells with self-detonation on certain distance but it’s unconfirmed if we get any AP ammo, while I couldn’t find much info on specific AP shells for the flak 38 they were used.

 

AP ammo would add additional gameplay since it could be used against light armored targets that HE can’t deal with (Like Bt7/T70) also possibly against medium tanks/tank destroyers when flanking them from either the side or the rear from short range.

There also existed PzGr. 40 with higher penetration but I suspect it was reserved for armored cars/pz II that had an higher chance to meet tanks on the frontline so it’s likely units with the flak 38 didn’t receive that.

 

 

Removing the gun and adding extra ammo as cargo instead : while useless for combat when driving it yourself, this could be useful in multiplayer where one player drives the 10/5 with the flak and another supplies it with extra ammo, it could also be used under ai control as ammo supply vehicle, maybe not the best source but on wiki (at the section about Deployment and use) it's stated additional 10/4 and 10/5 where used to carry extra ammunition.

 

New Player Controlled Units:

 

Flak 38 from the Sd.Kfz. 10/5 as an static item : this could be useful for mission designers since the flak 38 as an static was more commonly used and could be placed on locations which the sdkfz 10 can’t reach (like an entrenched position/top of an building/enz), the following 2 pics show the flak 38 as static without and with the shield, the no shield could be an additional modification.

Sd.Ah.51 Trailer with Flak 38 : If the Sd.Ah.51 Trailer is created then it could also be combinded with the static flak 38 to make it more mobile (few km/h since it’s pushed by infantry), it also could be used as an trailer on the Sd.Kfz. 10/5, the following 3 pics show the gun with shield and no shield, 3rd picture is an 10/4 towing an additional flak, while it's an 10/4 it's likely the 10/5 was used in an similar way.

Edited September 27, 2020 by ww2fighter20
Added player controlled to new units

[Gambit21]

8 hours ago, Rjel said:

I do hope that this new segment of IL-2 BoX will be successful enough that others will be developed. I'd like to see some U.S. vehicle mounted AA quad fifties or the German Wirbelwind make it in the game in the future.

 

Yep

 

Here's a shot of the Flak 38 half track (we have the Flakviering  fixed and half track as well but I left them out) and Flak 38 fixed unit, the Flak 36 (37mm) and the Flak 37 (88mm) in the background.

I'd love to have the 37mm fixed unit in the foreground as playable. A high rate of fire, more punch and better range for that "reach out and touch someone" ability.

I think this would be perfect for the first playable non-vehicle AA unit, and maybe the Russian 72K to match. (which we have in game as well)

 

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Now we need an American or British AA vehicle.

[Gambit21]

We have an AI M16.

Quad 50's. I've been using it to test .50 cal against parked aircraft lately.

[BraveSirRobin]

Player drivable AA vehicle.

[Gambit21]

 

Yep, I know.

There was a 37mm variant which I'd prefer to see for player use.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Gambit21

[BraveSirRobin]

I don't care if it uses a slingshot to launch rocks.  

 

I know that we're probably going to use the Russian truck on US/UK maps, but I'd like a UK/US option.

[Gambit21]

Me too.

[BraveSirRobin]

I'd be happy with a static AA gun.

[Rjel]

12 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep, I know.

There was a 37mm variant which I'd prefer to see for player use.

Is this it?

[Gambit21]

14 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

I'd be happy with a static AA gun.

 

Me too.

Quad 40 bofurs are overdue.

11 minutes ago, Rjel said:

Is this it?

 

Not sure.

[BraveSirRobin]

3 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Me too.

Quad 40 bofurs are overdue.

 

 

I'm actually a little surprised that this isn't already a thing.  It "feels" like a static gun would be even easier than a truck.  Then once you've got one done it gets easier to do more of them.  Then Jason plans his vacation in Tahiti.  Or maybe it isn't that easy...

[LachenKrieg]

11 hours ago, Lord_Strange said:

In that case I hope enough mission designers decide to include the AA vehicles, even if they don't include tanks. This has the potential to really change the dynamic of multiplayer missions.

I agree, these two vehicles hold a lot of potential to really change it up for both MP and SP game play depending on how they are implemented.

 

If the AA vehicles are like the rest of the TC vehicles, and I am guessing that they will be, then they should prove to be a really interesting addition. This should mean multi-crew, one person drives and the other one shots. Or a single player should be able to also drive from the gunners position. Or a single player should be able to command a platoon of tanks from an AA vehicle using the command menu. Coordinating a platoon of tanks to attack ground targets while providing protection from low level attacking aircraft will make for some really challenging missions.

 

8 hours ago, migmadmarine said:

It will be interesting to see how difficult it will be to actually knock down an aircraft in this sim, I've gotten pretty decent at it in Warthunder with the Werbelwind, but given how much more advanced the damage models in this sim are than that game, I can imagine I'll be able to hit them but not necessarily actually knock them down. 

I am guessing it wont be easy, especially for faster aircraft at longer ranges.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

The M15 should be fun to use, though kinda goofy trying to aim both the 37mm and .50 cals at the same time given their different ballistics.