4.501 and VR zoom

[TWC_NINja]

First off, looove the new visibility fix. (Huge thanks to the Devs ?) I can spot contacts 10km away with ease on my Reverb.

 

But in order to ID, I would zoom in... and the contact becomes a speck and sometimes disappears. Maybe this is a setting issue, or maybe it's a bug, or maybe it's just the nature of how VR zoom works... I don't know. But I certainly hope this can be addressed and resolved.

 

To be clear, I can zoom in when the contact is less than 2km (approximate) and the image would enlarge and I can see the silhouette to ID. But any further out, the contact actually becomes smaller. It seems like the zoom has an opposite effect - instead of making the object larger, it actually reduces it.

 

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this a known issue?

 

TWC_NINja

[RedKestrel]

2 minutes ago, TWC_NINja said:

First off, looove the new visibility fix. (Huge thanks to the Devs ?) I can spot contacts 10km away with ease on my Reverb.

 

But in order to ID, I would zoom in... and the contact becomes a speck and sometimes disappears. Maybe this is a setting issue, or maybe it's a bug, or maybe it's just the nature of how VR zoom works... I don't know. But I certainly hope this can be addressed and resolved.

 

To be clear, I can zoom in when the contact is less than 2km (approximate) and the image would enlarge and I can see the silhouette to ID. But any further out, the contact actually becomes smaller. It seems like the zoom has an opposite effect - instead of making the object larger, it actually reduces it.

 

Anyone else experiencing this? Is this a known issue?

 

TWC_NINja

I believe this is a side effect of the fact that, in order to improve the visibility, the scaling increased past 2km to make planes easier to spot. So when you zoom in, the scaling goes away, leaving you with an unscaled image. I don't notice it much on my screen (1440p) but it might be more noticeable or problematic in VR.
 

[SCG_Wulfe]

I think this is the case for everyone to some degree.

With VR, I think the effect is exaggerated due to coming from a wide FOV to a small one and the way the FOV impacts the scaling. I could be wrong and maybe everyone is experiencing this similarly. 

 

I personally think the scaling might be just a touch too much at long range and this effect could be mostly removed if it was toned down just a little. That said,  honestly I'm pretty ok with it.  If mostly everyone is happy with the current spotting situation, I am as well. 

 

 

Considering all of this, I initially was annoyed by this effect when tried the new update. I perceived it as a symptom of them going too far with the scaling. However, I resolved to take some time to see it's actual impact on gameplay. 

 

What I have realized is that without using any zoom at all, the spotting and determining range to targets (at least in VR) is very natural and plays very well. You don't see everything easily and still have to work to spot contacts. Simultaneously you are able to keep track of wingmen and contacts intuitively.

 

In terms of zooming to ID... well, I realized that it behaves very realistically if you think about it in the following way: On a distant contact when you zoom, the scaling reduces and therefore you are still unable to ID. (From that range you should not be able to ID.) As the contact nears to a range where ID might be possible in real life, you can zoom and then ID. (This simulates your eyes ability to focus and ID better than you can on a screen.) 

 

Basically, you should just avoid zooming on distant contacts. There is no need and you should not be able to ID from that range anyhow. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[TWC_NINja]

Guess I'm not alone, then...

Hope there's some fix to more closely emulate the zoom capabilities for non-VR players. I remember being able to use my zoom and have the contact enlarge, no matter how far they were.

 

@SCG_Wulfe and @RedKestrel I agree with your theories/explanations. It makes sense. And I wasn't really trying to ID at 10km... more just to be able to get some enlargement and not the opposite effect when I zoom in VR. lol

[1_Robert_]

I agree that it’s a little odd to be able to spot easier when not zoomed in. Sometimes I lose the contact when I zoom in. 

[chiliwili69]

10 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

I personally think the scaling might be just a touch too much at long range and this effect could be mostly removed if it was toned down just a little

 

I am also with you here.

 

I think the augmented size in VR of planes farther than 10Km is too large. I use Index with 130%SS, perhaps every device has different effects.

 

The "problem" I have then is that when I see (no zoom) a bomber at let say 11Km it has the same size that a bomber at 3Km (no zoom) (I say 3Km but maybe is 2 or 4, don´t know).

So this confuses me to really know if that bomber is in the long range (more than 10Km) or short range (around 2-3Km).

 

Of course, I can do two thing to know were it really is: zoom it or use labels for a second (in SP).

 

If I use zoom and the size if reduced then it is at long range, if the size remains constant or increased a bit then it is short range.

11 hours ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

You don't see everything easily and still have to work to spot contacts

 

That´s is not my case. For objects beyond 10Km the scaling is too much. You can see them very easily. In fact, when they go from 10Km to 9.9Km you will see a drastic reduction of the size.

The scaling beyond 10Km should not produce objects bigger than at 9.9Km. I will try to obtain some pictures this weekend.

[HunDread]

There is now an option in the difficulty settings called "Enhanced aircraft visibility". This should be a consideration when talking about the effects of the new spotting system. If this is checked the effectes might be too much compared to those this setting is unchecked or those playing MP (where this is most probably turned off).

[SCG_Wulfe]

5 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

 

 

The "problem" I have then is that when I see (no zoom) a bomber at let say 11Km it has the same size that a bomber at 3Km (no zoom) (I say 3Km but maybe is 2 or 4, don´t know).

So this confuses me to really know if that bomber is in the long range (more than 10Km) or short range (around 2-3Km).

 

The scaling beyond 10Km should not produce objects bigger than at 9.9Km. I will try to obtain some pictures this weekend.

 

 

Hmm, are you sure that you don't have 'enhanced visibility' turned on? (used to be called alternate) My experience on multiplayer servers that are running the default visibility, (not enhanced) is that objects still seem to scale mostly linearly with range. At no point did I feel like a distant contact was larger than a closer contact. This was definitely a feature/side-effect of the old 'alternate visibility' system. (now called enhanced visiblity)

 

I've spotted glimmering dots that are way out past 10k that I'm not even sure are an aircraft until I get closer with the new default visibility.

Edited September 22, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[SCG_motoadve]

From 5KM and closer, and its much better than before, you dont loose planes so easy against the ground,  but planes are way to easy to see compared to real life past 5KM, seeing a single engine plane at 10KM should be very difficult, its like being on the ground and be able to see a P51 flying at 33,000ft, or 20,000ft even, and in game we can easily see them that far.

Still this is a great improvement from what we had before.

[SCG_Wulfe]

1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

From 5KM and closer, and its much better than before, you dont loose planes so easy against the ground,  but planes are way to easy to see compared to real life past 5KM, seeing a single engine plane at 10KM should be very difficult, its like being on the ground and be able to see a P51 flying at 33,000ft, or 20,000ft even, and in game we can easily see them that far.

Still this is a great improvement from what we had before.

 

Yup figured as much. Didn't seem congruent with my limited real-life experience spotting airplanes while flying.  I guess I'm ok with things as they are if the community is happy... it's better than it was and I don't think gameplay is severely compromised like it was with alt view. I personally would prefer they lower the scaling on distant contacts. That said, I think it becomes very difficult to walk this line at great ranges, as you can't render as less than a pixel... and a pixel is not equal on all displays. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[RedKestrel]

52 minutes ago, SCG_Wulfe said:

 

Yup figured as much. Didn't seem congruent with my limited real-life experience spotting airplanes while flying.  I guess I'm ok with things as they are if the community is happy... it's better than it was and I don't think gameplay is severely compromised like it was with alt view. I personally would prefer they lower the scaling on distant contacts. That said, I think it becomes very difficult to walk this line at great ranges, as you can't render as less than a pixel... and a pixel is not equal on all displays. 

I honestly haven't noticed much in the way of improvement in terms of distant contact spotting (5km+). I was seeing little dots at long ranges before the patch. Then they would disappear when I got closer - now that doesn't happen. But I admittedly haven't played more than a few hours yet.

I hope they just keep spotting as it is at least for a couple months so people can get used to it and then MAYBE tweak it. But I'm doubtful its possible to make changes that work perfect for everybody across all hardware, especially comparing from VR to flat screen. If they leave it alone I will be happy.

[SCG_Wulfe]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I honestly haven't noticed much in the way of improvement in terms of distant contact spotting (5km+). I was seeing little dots at long ranges before the patch. Then they would disappear when I got closer - now that doesn't happen. But I admittedly haven't played more than a few hours yet.

I hope they just keep spotting as it is at least for a couple months so people can get used to it and then MAYBE tweak it. But I'm doubtful its possible to make changes that work perfect for everybody across all hardware, especially comparing from VR to flat screen. If they leave it alone I will be happy.

 

Ya, it is quite possible they have achieved a happy medium that will please the greatest number of people where it's at. 

 

Thinking of it this way and realizing it could always get worse... (alt view) keeps me fairly content with what they have arrived at.

Edited September 22, 2020 by SCG_Wulfe

[E69_Qpassa_VR]

Two days ago I did an ace in a flight in Wings of Liberty server, the visual changes helped me to spot contacts far away and dive them.

 

We will see in the future how it goes with the Reverb G2

Edited September 23, 2020 by E69_Qpassa_VR

[chiliwili69]

21 hours ago, HunDread said:

There is now an option in the difficulty settings called "Enhanced aircraft visibility". This should be a consideration when talking about the effects of the new spotting system. If this is checked the effectes might be too much compared to those this setting is unchecked or those playing MP (where this is most probably turned off)

 

Exactly that HunDread and SCG_Wulfe!

I was testing the new visibility with just QMB in SP using NORMAL settings (which activate the "Enhanced airfcraft visibility" option).

To deactivate that, you have to go to "CUSTOM" and then deactivate that option.

 

When I did that, the planes beyond 10 Km are very very small (as it should be), and then, they progressively became bigger as they approach. So it solved my problem.

Many thanks, I never touched that option and now I will always will deactivate that.

Edited September 23, 2020 by chiliwili69

[Gryphon_VR]

On 9/22/2020 at 6:50 AM, SCG_motoadve said:

From 5KM and closer, and its much better than before, you dont loose planes so easy against the ground,  but planes are way to easy to see compared to real life past 5KM, seeing a single engine plane at 10KM should be very difficult, its like being on the ground and be able to see a P51 flying at 33,000ft, or 20,000ft even, and in game we can easily see them that far.

Still this is a great improvement from what we had before.

I don't agree. In cockpit, flying as a military pilot, I found that under ideal conditions you could see fighter-sized aircraft at over 10 miles. The acuity of the eye is way better than the best flatscreen. The range at which we can see contacts in game in VR is terrible by comparison: I'm losing visibility of contacts I'm chasing at under 10km (est).

 

Sorry for resurrecting old thread.... what I was wondering was if this new setting had any bearing on on how the game renders aircraft in VR? 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Gryphon962