Am I the only one who doesn't really like VR?

[TAIPAN_]

I resisted VR for a while, but it was so hyped up that in the end I had to try it. I got the Valve Index, because the existing Reverb is not adjustable and had some other bad review points (my IPD is 68-69). Apparently the Index is a VERY GOOD top of the line headset so the experience should be a good indicator.

 

I was able to get good enough performance out of my rig as well, with either 90fps & no SS, or 80 fps with low SS, or 60/120 with re-projection and 150% SS.  I followed all the guide, setup the Check-6 button mapping, tuned with fpsVR, adjusted my snapviews to center and mapped everything to shifted HOTAS buttons so I need no keyboard.

 

But after 2 weeks of using VR, I just feel I miss the old way of playing with Trackir and Ultrawide curved monitor, VR just did not live up to the hype.

 

If you love VR you might not understand, but these are the reasons I didn't like it:

1. In IL-2 it's not really "virtual reality", I'd call it "3D view". I see the landing gear lever and want to reach out and pull it but I can't, I want to adjust the sights on my Spitfire with my fingers but I can't. The only thing I really get out of it is slightly better head tracking than Trackir + really great depth perception. This DOES help maneuvers where you lose sight of the enemy and positional awareness alot, as well as lining up shots. Aerobatics did improve. It didn't help landings for some reason though.. But this improved tracking and depth perception is the main/only benefit
2. Some weird headaches even when I loosen the headset. May be due to my age one of my eyes is losing it's close vision (over 40 years old). I have one very good long distance eye, and one good close reading eye.
3. Feeling sick, this did improve and would probably improve more if I fly often.
4. Feeling blind like I can't tell what is going on compared to 4k monitor - sure I could aim better but I'm shooting at blobs with wings instead of a particular model of aircraft. I couldn't spot anything, and if I did I could not ID it. Yes I did setup the VR zoom but there's this constant fuzzy effect (maybe screen door) the picture is just not clear or clean like a monitor is.
5. Graphics quality is really poor, shimmering, low resolution, most quality settings turned down. On a rig that could run 140-160fps at 4k normally for 2D with high settings.
6. Blurry when looking away from centre. With my head centred, when I look at the gauges on the far left of the cockpit they are blurry. Unlike a monitor I have to turn my head to point my whole head to look at something rather than just my eyes. This I believe is the "sweet spot" issue I didn't think would be so bad with an adjustable IPD but it's still noticeable.
7. Some light enters below the headset, only way to fix it is for headset to go lower (which makes it blurry), or to go tighter (which gives red marks and headaches)
8. IL-2 has background bleed through where objects connect. You can see it in the Menu's background hangar for example, 3D objects being made of panels where the edges connect sometimes light comes through. Another example is the Yak 7B windscreen light coming under the bottom edge. If these objects are flush there shouldn't be any bleed through of the colour behind.
9. IL-2 cockpit limits - both settings have issues. If you limit cockpit view in VR, then when you hit the edge the whole screen moves with your head (and can make some sick). If you don't limit it, then your head moves outside the glass and you're also not allowed this setting in multiplayer servers that disable it causing inconsistency.
10. It's really annoying that all the menus are in VR and you need the headset to use them as well (considering the 2D needs to have res turned right down for performance). I'd prefer if we can setup our flight, do all the config and loadouts in 2D then only have to wear the headset when get in the cockpit.
11. VR needs HUD to be off for performance, but also for immersion (HUD looks weird in VR and traps your vision like a bug on the windscreen). I miss the HUD it's useful for some missions/campaigns, and where you have things like Oil radiator that uses a massive wheel in cockpit you can't tell what position it's in unless you have enough rotaries to assign.
12. I miss interacting with the real world: Answering question from my wife that I can't see, being able to get up for bathroom without messing with headset again, I miss referencing flight manuals etc on 2nd monitor/laptop
13. Can't eat or drink ? Yeah I'm short of time to fly so it's sometimes my meal time has to multi-task
14. I don't like playing with Icons and GPS for the first time in my life, and it kind of defeats the immersion point

 

I see that as a lot of negatives, against one set of positives (better tracking, depth perception and gunnery). But what is the point of being better at shooting if you have to hold fire due to not knowing friend from foe?

 

Sorry it's a bit of an essay, it's me organising my thoughts on where to go from here. VR is/was FUN, but not ideal for me. My best times simming where with a 30" 16:9 monitor & trackir, with another small monitor showing teamspeak, manuals, etc below it. I'm feeling like going back to this, but might try a bit of time back in Trackir with my current monitor before giving up VR (flew a bit today with Trackir and liked it).

 

I wonder are there some out there still enjoying VR because of the sunk cost fallacy? They've spent so much on VR and hardware, plus time on configuration that it's too hard to go back? Or maybe most of the above points are important to me individually but not so important to others.

 

Keen to hear if anyone else tried and gave up VR?

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dan_Taipan

[DD_Arthur]

27 minutes ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

Congratulations,  you are Woodrow Wilson?

Edited August 27, 2020 by DD_Arthur

[Charlo-VRde]

I'll be the first to say here that VR is what got me back into flight simming (well, that and working from home all the time now with enough free time). For me I truly feel as if I am inside of the books I read as a kid and am reading again with a greater understanding of what the pilots experienced. But I'll be curious to see others who may feel same the same as Taipan

[SCG_motoadve]

Been flying IL2 in VR for 2 years now, before VR I had a so so joystick, so so PC and forced my self to play IL2, was bored and burned out, not interested in investing too much money on the hobby.

Got VR, and having fun again, bought the best PC and video card I could, best HOTAS and having a blast, IMHO you need a fast PC and HOTAS if you want to enjoy VR, HP reverb its amazing(already pre ordered G2 and will buy a 3090 video card).

 

Was flying FS2020 with no VR and not flying IL2 almost for a week, got bored quickly , fired Il2 in VR and again was blown away at how great it is flying Il2 in VR, all my real pilot friends are blown away at the realism when they try it (some of them have flown P51s, and P47s in real life).

[coconut]

Your assessment is fair, but personally the one positive outweighs all the negatives

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

You're not alone. Many of the issues you've listed come up quite frequently on this forum, especially the things related to comfort and visual quality.

 

For me, points 12 and 13 are the most significant. I'm usually not willing to dedicate my full attention to the game long enough to justify donning a headset.

 

I wouldn't say that I've given up on VR, but I don't expect to use it much unless my overall lifestyle changes significantly or the hardware becomes more seamless.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[NiiranenVR]

Well , difficult for me to answer - course I never played IL2 without VR 

 

I started with the Oculus Rift and changed to the Reverb - that was a big improvement , so I'm now waiting what ppl will write about the new glasses Reverb gen 2  and GPU and so on - then I maybe follow the crowd and buy new ??

[II/JG11_ATLAN_VR]

iam 65 ,and in vr since 2017, flying il2

first oculus cv1, and since 2019, pimax 5kplus

flying without vr is impossible for me, its like watching an 2d movie ,but not immersive like sitting in a pit in vr.

Edited August 30, 2020 by II/JG11ATLAN_VR

[jollyjack]

I hate the contraption thing on your head. Also feels like unfinished business.. now if i only was a (blind) mouse:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/technology-34505246

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by jollyjack

[airsheep_VR]

Vr is the only reason I play flight sims again. Without this flight sims are too arcade to me.

I prefer realism over comfort. IRL ww2 pilots could not check 6, they had limited views, and they didn't have a wide 4k monitor with zoom to see the environment clearly. 

I play in vr -with all its disadvantages- a real game,  instead of play in a monitor an arcade game.

And I would spend even more money if I could make this game more realistic.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by airsheep_VR

[firdimigdi]

8 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Or maybe most of the above points are important to me individually but not so important to others.

 

Yup. Different strokes for different folks. Also the end experience varies based on hardware used, player physiology and eyesight, expectations etc.

 

8 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

In IL-2 it's not really "virtual reality", I'd call it "3D view". I see the landing gear lever and want to reach out and pull it but I can't, I want to adjust the sights on my Spitfire with my fingers but I can't.

 

I can only comment on this point (which isn't IL-2 specific actually) and point out that eventually we'll get full on hand tracking (Oculus Quest has this this to an extent) so if it's supported in games you can also interact after a fashion with the cockpit. In XPlane you get some fairly decent such control of cockpit elements using the clunky VR controllers (same in DCS last time I checked but it's even clunkier there). IMO those controllers will eventually be phased out or transformed in to something to use for specific types of games, most simply interaction will end up being via direct hand tracking.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Firdimigdi

[TAIPAN_]

38 minutes ago, airsheep_VR said:

Vr is the only reason I play flight sims again. Without this flight sims are too arcade to me.

I prefer realism over comfort. IRL ww2 pilots could not check 6, they had limited views, and they didn't have a wide 4k monitor with zoom to see the environment clearly. 

I play in vr -with all its disadvantages- a real game,  instead of play in a monitor an arcade game.

And I would spend even more money if I could make this game more realistic.

 

Realism doesn't come into my reasons - In real life I have no issue knowing it's a Cessna off my right wing, and not a Piper Cub. I'd say flat screen in that respect is more realistic because there are less Simulator defects like jaggies.

 

In VR I struggle to see any detail on things.

 

Checking 6 was better for me in VR compared to trackir because of the TrueView bug.

 

Losing depth perception from not having a VR headset does not make IL-2 2D an arcade game. On the contrary, VR I had to turn icons on which made it more arcadey than 2D

2 hours ago, coconut said:

Your assessment is fair, but personally the one positive outweighs all the negatives

 

Yep, it's a big positive. If headsets improve (reverb G2 and above) it may remove some of my issues.

 

Still keeping my options open, may want to try the HP Reverb G2 once it's available in Australia

[dburne]

I have been gaming in VR only since Jan 2017. Once I got it it ruined any monitor gaming for me, so I have not done that since.

For me it is really all about the immersion, and the feeling I am actually in the world versus viewing it on a monitor.

And IL-2 GB is simply gorgeous to me in VR. I probably spend between 10-15 hours a week with it in VR.

Plus the occasional foray into other made for VR games.

 

On the plus side for you - if you sell your Index you should get a good price for it as lead time from Valve is still out there pretty good.

[HunDread]

I can relate to the OP. I have been flying with a CV1 since VR implementation. I haven't been flying in the last couple of months. I am tired of not baing able to ID since Migoto was taken away and not being able to spot against the ground since the last major update.

 

I did my part to fix my issues and pre-odered the Reverb G2. If that brings back the level I can enjoy the sim I'll be happy to continue, if not, I'll get a headtracking device and try 2d again, if that doesn't work out as well I'll leave.  

[Lensman1945]

You mention that you have different focus in your eyes. Are you using custom prescription lenses in the headset? If not, I suggest you try some. You may well experience a significant increase in sharpness

[GOA_Karaya_VR]

Im using now oculus cv1 ( soon rift S ) ..and man.. i cant not return again to trackir.. once you enter in the vr environment ..you cant get out of it.

[chiliwili69]

16 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

I miss interacting with the real world: Answering question from my wife that I can't see, being able to get up for bathroom without messing with headset again, I miss referencing flight manuals etc on 2nd monitor/laptop

 

Thanks for posting all your reasons, some of them are quite right, other can be solved but there are other reasons like 12 which should not count really.

 

Do you think WWII pilots were interrupted by their wifes in the middle of a battle or just interrupt the combat to go to toilet???  ?  If you want realism and total inmersion you need to forget were you are and be mentally translated into the cockpit and the scenario. I can not get that with monitor, but in VR I believe I am there.

 

WWII pilots had not a second monitor with all kind of manuals or maps. If you are interested there is an app that allows to open your docs inside VR, just in the legs.

[Remontti]

I admit that I prefer my curved monitor. I usually fly couple of weeks with VR and then get bored of it and change back to monitor. Until I get that VR spark again...

 

I like the butter smooth performance of 2D, clarity, better colors and most importantly comfort. I don't like to use VR more than hour. Mostly because of the heat. 

[chiliwili69]

17 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Can't eat or drink ? Yeah I'm short of time to fly so it's sometimes my meal time has to multi-task

 

Hey Man, do one thing at a time. Take your lunch and then fly, or viceversa. 

 

Without knowing it, I am a practioner of the "Mindfulness" praxis. If you just do once thing after the other you enjoy both fully and deeply.

Sometimes when I have to travel to USA for my work they propose "lunch meetings". So you have lunch and work at the same time. This is quite strange habbit for me. Yes, you save time, but it is difficult to combine both activities. It is much better to stop the meeting for lunch in just 15-20 minutes and then continue.

 

Another typical habbit from USA is to have ALWAYS something to drink in your hand (coke, beer, coffee, etc in large cups), it doesn´t matter if you are in the car, at the office, in meetings, etc. Here I prefer to follow the Italian style, just go to the expresso machine, take a dosis in 1 minute and continue with other things with your hand free.

 

I never eat or drink anything while I play IL-2 VR. I am normally just focus in one thing at a time (read a book, watch a movie, talk with people, make sport, ...)

 

Note: Apologize for this direct attack to some habbits of northamericans. Every country has their own bad habbits... Here in Spain some people kill bulls with large swords...

Edited August 27, 2020 by chiliwili69

[unlikely_spider]

Agreed with the OP. Especially with the "3D" simulator part. In IL2 where everything has to be bound to a key or hotas button, and I can't see my hands, I'm not sure how that leads to more immersion. At least in the other sims if I forgot what a certain function was bound to, I can reach for the mouse and simply click on the respective item in the cockpit.

And the graphics are horrible. Maybe with the upcoming Reverb and new GPUs that will be better. But for thousands of dollars.

[chiliwili69]

17 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Some weird headaches even when I loosen the headset

 

I was also having a similar problem before I put some weight compensation to the Index. In my case was due to putting extra pressure in the back wheel to fix my face well to the headset.

Now the total weight is 1Kg but the pressure over my face is much less.

I will take time until you adjust optimally the four mechanical degrees of freedom of the Index mentioned in the link.

 

[Guest deleted@134347]

 

 

Yes, there's a gazillion drawbacks with VR. However, the immersion, this truly inescapable feeling of actually sitting inside these monstrous metal machines is what mesmerizes the imagination of the VR folks in IL2.

 

For me, flying in 110G at dusk with the illuminated dashboard, the rising moon, the fire balls of the destroyed aircrafts falling down to the ground... Now that feeling.. you just simply can't re-create in 2D. 

 

On the monitor it's just a movie.

 

In VR I am the movie...  ?

 

 

edit: removed my cynic statement, it came off a bit harsh, my apologies.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Didney_World

[chiliwili69]

17 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Graphics quality is really poor, shimmering, low resolution, most quality settings turned down. On a rig that could run 140-160fps at 4k normally for 2D with high settings

 

No doubt. 4K is better than VR currently regarding resolution, and it will take a lot of time until we have retinal resolutions at 90fps in VR.

I think it depends how much time you were playing in 4K. For 1080p people is easier to transition to VR.

In IL-2, I swichted from 4K to Rift CV1, but it my case I prefer inmersion over resolution. Perhaps it is becasue when I was young I had miopy (I had lasik at 30) and frequently didn´t use glasses when making sports or going out with my friends. So I was OK with looking the world blurry around me. I remember when making windsurf it was difficult to come back to the same place in the beach that I was departuring...  ?

Or in the bar or disco, I had to be close enough to a girl to see if she was enough pretty...?

Edited August 27, 2020 by chiliwili69

[Redwo1f]

10 minutes ago, Didney_World said:

not to be a cynic but it sounds you simply like IL2 for its gaming aspect and not for the true WWII pilot immersion.

 

 

 

See, you just kinda put a personal evaluation on how the OP likes to play (suggesting that he doesn't like "true WWII pilot immersion"  ?) . You know, it's OKAY that the OP doesn't find it immersive for himself and has problems with it with the reasons he has given.

 

This isn't pointed at everyone but gosh people, it's OKAY that a person likes VR, it's OKAY that a person doesn't like VR. It's OKAY that what one person values may NOT be what you value. It's OKAY that some people may prefer to play a different way than you do. It's OKAY that a person may have different positive or negative experiences than you have. It's OKAY that a person may want VR, and it's OKAY that a person may not want VR. 

 

Sadly, I knew when I saw the title of the discussion this sort of thing would start to come up. Accept that people are different and have different likes and dislikes, values, and priorities. We don't need the elitism.

[Guest deleted@134347]

3 minutes ago, Redwo1f said:

 

See, you just kinda put a personal evaluation on how the OP likes to play (suggesting that he doesn't like "true WWII pilot immersion"  ?) . You know, it's OKAY that the OP doesn't find it immersive for himself and has problems with it with the reasons he has given.

 

This isn't pointed at everyone but gosh people, it's OKAY that a person likes VR, it's OKAY that a person doesn't like VR. It's OKAY that what one person values may NOT be what you value. It's OKAY that some people may prefer to play a different way than you do. It's OKAY that a person may have different positive or negative experiences than you have. It's OKAY that a person may want VR, and it's OKAY that a person may not want VR. 

 

Sadly, I knew when I saw the title of the discussion this sort of thing would start to come up. Accept that people are different and have different likes and dislikes, values, and priorities. We don't need the elitism.

 

It's OK to say what you say, I never said it wasn't.

 

Buuut.. if you create a post with a topic like that in VR forum you definitely don't do it for shits and giggles. Expect the reactions and opinions of others to surface.

 

This is a forum for discussion. So.. we are discussing. And every single discussion starts with personal assumptions. It's a human thing.. i think..

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Didney_World

[[-=BP=-]Slegawsky_VR]

Severe motion sickness

otherwise there is no going back to flying a monitor.

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, Slegawsky_VR said:

Severe motion sickness

otherwise there is no going back to flying a monitor.

 

I get horrible motion sickness riding in a car (not driving).

I did when I first got a Rift, after about 2-3 weeks I became acclimated to it and it does not bother me at all any more.

[TAIPAN_]

9 hours ago, HunDread said:

I can relate to the OP. I have been flying with a CV1 since VR implementation. I haven't been flying in the last couple of months. I am tired of not baing able to ID since Migoto was taken away and not being able to spot against the ground since the last major update.

 

I did my part to fix my issues and pre-odered the Reverb G2. If that brings back the level I can enjoy the sim I'll be happy to continue, if not, I'll get a headtracking device and try 2d again, if that doesn't work out as well I'll leave.  

Yeah it's especially hard if you're used to a 34" 3440 display.

I'm watching the Reverb G2 with interest, but also thinking I'd have to then upgrade to NVidia 3090 instead of 2070.. which would also mean I'd have to pull everything apart to replace my PSU For only a few hours flying each week it's a hard decision

 

5 hours ago, Lensman1945 said:

You mention that you have different focus in your eyes. Are you using custom prescription lenses in the headset? If not, I suggest you try some. You may well experience a significant increase in sharpness

 

Sounds interesting. I don't have glasses because I've done laser in both eyes once, then again in the right eye when it regressed. Left eye is a bit behind. Can you point me in the right direction about these lenses - are you talking about getting glasses or you can change the lenses or put something over one of the lenses in the  headset?

[sallee]

Interesting. It really is a case of one man's meat being another man's poison.

I just won't do it, because I don't want to shut out the real world. I don't wear earphones or headphones outside either. It's like wandering around with a blindfold on.

[TAIPAN_]

 

3 hours ago, Remontti said:

I admit that I prefer my curved monitor. I usually fly couple of weeks with VR and then get bored of it and change back to monitor. Until I get that VR spark again...

 

I like the butter smooth performance of 2D, clarity, better colors and most importantly comfort. I don't like to use VR more than hour. Mostly because of the heat. 

 

Ooh that's a good point I never thought of.. since it's currently winter I don't feel any heat. But summer in Australia I'm very heat intolerant normally I don't deal with it well. If I didn't quit now, I'd probably quit when summer comes.

[Charlo-VRde]

@Dan_Taipanif you Google "valve index prescription lenses" you'll find lots of options. I got cheap, $35 lenses that fit into a pair of Oculus Quest 3D-printed lens adapters that clip onto my Quests lenses, and now I don't have to wear my glasses inside my Quest. I'm eagerly watching for 3D-printed lens adapters for the Reverb G2 that will hopefully also hold these same cheap $35 lenses

[TAIPAN_]

 

10 minutes ago, sallee said:

Interesting. It really is a case of one man's meat being another man's poison.

I just won't do it, because I don't want to shut out the real world. I don't wear earphones or headphones outside either. It's like wandering around with a blindfold on.

 

This is it - "immersion" being the primary reason for many, is the reason against VR for some. I, like you want less immersion. The more immersed I am, the more annoyed I get when the baby cries or if someone comes to the door. If you have the real world in silos around certain times of the day it's fine to get immersed, but people need me all the time.

5 minutes ago, Charlo-VR said:

@Dan_Taipanif you Google "valve index prescription lenses" you'll find lots of options. I got cheap, $35 lenses that fit into a pair of Oculus Quest 3D-printed lens adapters that clip onto my Quests lenses, and now I don't have to wear my glasses inside my Quest. I'm eagerly watching for 3D-printed lens adapters for the Reverb G2 that will hopefully also hold these same cheap $35 lenses

 

Thanks I'll check it out, I suspect it's astigmatism because on some angles I can see clear from left eye and other parts of the cockpit I can't see depending on what my eye's doing. I'll have to check if they include that.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Dan_Taipan

[dburne]

13 minutes ago, Dan_Taipan said:

 

 

Ooh that's a good point I never thought of.. since it's currently winter I don't feel any heat. But summer in Australia I'm very heat intolerant normally I don't deal with it well. If I didn't quit now, I'd probably quit when summer comes.

 

Heat has never been an issue for me, both with Rift CV1 and Rift S. I can game for hours in it. And I live in a hot climate, however am in an air conditioned room.

My Quest though, using as stand alone, does tend to get a bit warm after several minutes of use, obviously from the on board CPU. 

Not unbearably but certainly noticeable.

[TAIPAN_]

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Thanks for posting all your reasons, some of them are quite right, other can be solved but there are other reasons like 12 which should not count really.

 

Do you think WWII pilots were interrupted by their wifes in the middle of a battle or just interrupt the combat to go to toilet???  ?  If you want realism and total inmersion you need to forget were you are and be mentally translated into the cockpit and the scenario. I can not get that with monitor, but in VR I believe I am there.

 

WWII pilots had not a second monitor with all kind of manuals or maps. If you are interested there is an app that allows to open your docs inside VR, just in the legs.

 

If I didn't post all my reasons then people like @chiliwili69 would come along and discount each one of them to try to pull me back in

 

WWII pilots not being interrupted by their wives is clearly a realism argument. Realism wasn't one of my reasons, and whether my wife or baby interrupts or not will happen regardless of wearing a headset or not. It's just easier to deal with without a headset on.

 

If I wanted "realism" I would have kept flying if $$$ was not issue. I enjoy sims MORE than flying as a relaxation activity because it's not  real. Flying in real life is exhilarating (aerobatics is anyway), sweaty, physically taxing, fun etc. Simulator for me is not a physical activity, it's a relaxation activity. I want INSIDE the sim to be real, but not my chair, office room, or anything else. To be relaxed I want to stay connected to the real world, so when I'm pulled out of my sim it is less painful. WWII pilots were not relaxed, but my goal is not to change my state.

 

Nothing wrong with wanting to feel closer to the realism, it's just nothing to do with my reasons.

 

One day when I retire I may join you and start ramping up the real world realism, but it's not for the busy stage of my life.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

Hey Man, do one thing at a time. Take your lunch and then fly, or viceversa. 

 

Without knowing it, I am a practioner of the "Mindfulness" praxis. If you just do once thing after the other you enjoy both fully and deeply.

Sometimes when I have to travel to USA for my work they propose "lunch meetings". So you have lunch and work at the same time. This is quite strange habbit for me. Yes, you save time, but it is difficult to combine both activities. It is much better to stop the meeting for lunch in just 15-20 minutes and then continue.

 

I wish life were that easy, unfortunately a busy job, baby, and a sport I love that takes about 12 hours a week. Sims come second to my sport, and my sport comes second to my family.

 

I used to practice Mindfulness and am very familiar with it, it was great. Now I'm on schedules down to the minute, I get up at 4am so I have time to train for sport, and do my sims on rest days in between training days (again at 4am). Kid often wakes up and needs milk or nappy etc. When I take time to eat first the back of my mind is telling me "As soon as I get ready to take-off I'm going to hear crying" ?

So I get my food/coffee and try to crank everything at once in a rush.

 

Glad you mentioned the "Lunch meetings" though, it's not a USA thing - it's an inconsiderate boss thing ? It's a strategy by some management to politely say you can't have a lunch break today because we can't fit our meetings in. I used to use my lunch break for something useful like going for a walk or reading, I can eat while I work outside of my lunch break thanks boss. These days I have more control of how I work thankfully.

3 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

I was also having a similar problem before I put some weight compensation to the Index. In my case was due to putting extra pressure in the back wheel to fix my face well to the headset.

Now the total weight is 1Kg but the pressure over my face is much less.

I will take time until you adjust optimally the four mechanical degrees of freedom of the Index mentioned in the link.

 

Thanks, I also saw a product for this, although I thought it was more for those who are doing the standing-game VR thing moving around. I guess we do move our heads just as much even if our body is more still.

 

I wonder if the Reverb G2 will also need it?

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

In IL-2, I swichted from 4K to Rift CV1, but it my case I prefer inmersion over resolution. Perhaps it is becasue when I was young I had miopy (I had lasik at 30) and frequently didn´t use glasses when making sports or going out with my friends. So I was OK with looking the world blurry around me. I remember when making windsurf it was difficult to come back to the same place in the beach that I was departuring...  ?

Or in the bar or disco, I had to be close enough to a girl to see if she was enough pretty...?

 

This hits the nail on the head, immersion isn't what I was after from VR. I just wanted the improvement in head tracking, depth perception and 3D aspect (and be better at shooting ) . In VR when I do vertical manoeuvrers I can really tell where I and the bandit are going to end up better because there's a feeling of where you are in space. That part was great. But extra immersion was a negative being cutoff from the world.

I was the same leaving my glasses at home when I was young  going out, Beer Goggles added to that problem! Besides, everybody looks good in the dark ? Did Laser twice since then, one LASIK in my 20s, then did ASLA on my dominant eye in my 30s after there was a regression. Left my left eye as it was to allow me to read after 40 (Now I"m 41).

 

I used a monitor for a long time though, always good monitors so it's a hard switch. Trackir was always 2nd nature too, actually feels weird that it doesn't move 1:1 now after VR!

[dbzero]

I was wowed by VR at first, but now I too prefer to just use monitor. I'm considering getting TrackIR as a compromise solution. VR is till in its infancy and sims like DCS and IL2 were not originally designed with VR in mind.

 

VTOL VR was designed from the ground up as a VR flight sim and has good feedback. I'm going to give it a try soon.

 

Perhaps in the future when better, lighter VR headsets come out and someone comes up with an interface that seamlessly replaces the keyboard/mouse while still allowing you to use stick, throttle and rudders, will we see VR become more widely used. Right now it seem like too much work for a return that while dazzling in some ways, wears off in time.

 

To me the ultimate VR set would be something like regular eye glasses that can be corrective for those without 20/20 vision, project excellent VR images while you are looking at a monitor, but seamlessly become normal glasses when looking away from a monitor at a keyboard.

 

I think that is possible, if not now but soon in the future. We already had google glasses and Apple is working on smart eye wear. The VR designers and makers are already thinking about the future and The Next Big Thing....

[NiiranenVR]

I Will never quit the VR - never tried without , but one negative is that I'm allmost a MP player and I can feel unsocial course I can't write when I'm flying so not so much contact with other 

 

[ST_Catchov]

2 hours ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Now I'm on schedules down to the minute, I get up at 4am so I have time to train for sport, and do my sims on rest days in between training days (again at 4am). Kid often wakes up and needs milk or nappy etc. When I take time to eat first the back of my mind is telling me "As soon as I get ready to take-off I'm going to hear crying" ?

 

Happy days. I was in the same position in my mid thirties when grunge (hint) was king. I think you're over-stressed and "immersive vr realism" won't work under your circumstances and will only increase the stress. Looking back I was really stressed without knowing it. Stick with trackir for quick fixes. Don't even bother with vr until things settle down a bit. Trackir still rocks anyway and works for me. Advice from an old guy lol.

[dbzero]

I still remember the days when you loaded flight sims from floppy disks and then spend hours messing around with the config.sys and autoexec.bat to squeeze performance. Some even resorted to QEMM.

 

To me VR today is like the days when you got a graphics card with 2 megs of VRAM. Its not reached a state where it the equivalent to when the Diamond 3D graphics card was introduced. It will get there eventually and then some. Who knows they may have the capability to do so now, but at the end of the day its all about profits and $$$. They will milk as much money out of the gaming public and make and release incremental advancements. Just look at what NVIDIA is doing with graphic cards. A ton of marketing hype and prices that keep Wall Street happy and stock price on an upward trajectory.

 

If NVIDIA truly released the end all be all graphics card tomorrow that would signal then end of increasing sales growth and Wall Street would punish NVIDIA. The VR market is no different.

 

All that being said and done, enjoy the ride. I was an early adapter of VR. Google earth and other stuff is cool in VR and the list of software is growing. I don't have Beat Saber, but its pretty damm popular. Some of the space and solar system stuff is cool and IL2, DCS and soon FS2020 will probably be cool too, but we're still in the Wright Brothers days when it comes to VR.

 

 

[TAIPAN_]

2 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Happy days. I was in the same position in my mid thirties when grunge (hint) was king. I think you're over-stressed and "immersive vr realism" won't work under your circumstances and will only increase the stress. Looking back I was really stressed without knowing it. Stick with trackir for quick fixes. Don't even bother with vr until things settle down a bit. Trackir still rocks anyway and works for me. Advice from an old guy lol.

 

Hi Catchov long time no see! Remember flying with you in the ROF Oceanic Wing years ago.

 

Yeah you're right, I try to take on too much and if I was being realistic I should probably shelve my Sim and HOTAS until a future date.. Time unemployed time during lockdown showed me how much I missed it, getting a job was a major problem ?

 

To decide between VR or Trackir is just first world problems, will come back to VR later

4 minutes ago, tiger_0988 said:

To me VR today is like the days when you got a graphics card with 2 megs of VRAM. Its not reached a state where it the equivalent to when the Diamond 3D graphics card was introduced. It will get there eventually and then some. Who knows they may have the capability to do so now, but at the end of the day its all about profits and $$$. They will milk as much money out of the gaming public and make and release incremental advancements. Just look at what NVIDIA is doing with graphic cards. A ton of marketing hype and prices that keep Wall Street happy and stock price on an upward trajectory.

 

All that being said and done, enjoy the ride. I was an early adapter of VR. Google earth and other stuff is cool in VR and the list of software is growing. I don't have Beat Saber, but its pretty damm popular. Some of the space and solar system stuff is cool and IL2, DCS and soon FS2020 will probably be cool too, but we're still in the Wright Brothers days when it comes to VR.

 

haha yeah, us techies do enjoy trying new technology and fiddling with stuff. I got caught up years ago in the old MSFS and before I knew it I spent more time managing addons and setups than flying, i think actual flights were like 10% of my time in my rig there was so much to mess around with. VR is not as bad as that, but still has a long way to go before being plug n play.

I'd love 4k per eye, and the graphics cards to run it (if the computer won't heat the room like a bitcoin miner). Looking forward to watching the space anyway

[ST_Catchov]

31 minutes ago, Dan_Taipan said:

Hi Catchov long time no see! Remember flying with you in the ROF Oceanic Wing years ago.

 

Yeah good times Dan. I've only recently got back into flight simming after a life enforced hiatus (of 8 years or so, can't believe it lol) and I now have time to indulge myself. I'm still a WW1 nerd and thought I'd give FC a go. Hopefully it's the future of WW1 simming but I'm a little worried about the devs silence. Maybe after BoN is sorted they'll get back into what really matters hehe. What happened to all the Oceanic guys? I'm aiming to contact the Unprofessional chaps to see if they want to have regular WW1 gigs. At least I get a decent ping there.