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666GIAP_Necathor

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Well good to ear that you are working, is a shame that you Devs don´t put your effort in more important things like DM, 0.50 cal damage(now are like .303 guns), FM of the 109s with out elevators or rudder, the super HE 40kg TNT damage from 20mm german cannon.

And don´t tell me that is a net error because axis planes kill my plane in one shoot and I need all 5 37mm HE shell to shoot down a fighter from my Yak9T.

Put your effort on important part of the sim, many people that prefer fly allies side stop playing because of the "improvements"

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Yeah pissing off the devs will get you what you want. 🙄

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Russian guns were unreliable and i think the failure of the fuse in the shell is modeled in. :crazy:

 

All historic. 

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3 hours ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

Well good to ear that you are working, is a shame that you Devs don´t put your effort in more important things like DM, 0.50 cal damage(now are like .303 guns), FM of the 109s with out elevators or rudder, the super HE 40kg TNT damage from 20mm german cannon.

And don´t tell me that is a net error because axis planes kill my plane in one shoot and I need all 5 37mm HE shell to shoot down a fighter from my Yak9T.

Put your effort on important part of the sim, many people that prefer fly allies side stop playing because of the "improvements"

.50s are powerful , learn to shoot 😆

Quick mission against 109s on flying a P51 or P47 you can consistently and easily get 5 even 6 kills, in expert mode, no assists or unlimited ammo.

If they fix this then will be a joke, this are not cannons.

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LOL

using that standard all other MG are to OP, i just used 2 TWO MG in 109 vs AI P51 and P47 and shoot down 13 of them with only 2 TWO MG and its 600 bullets of ammo, YOU can only get 5-6 with 6 or 8 0.50 ? LOL and more would be OP vs AI that flys predictable moves, no wonder we have crappy 0.50 in game if thats standard for what american MG guns should do.

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Lear to aim  :) 

 

You only kill 6 of them? as you see , others can kill more than 10 - p 51 with 2x20 minesglos and less rounds... not joke in this case no?

 

Really you make me laught moto , i assure you neca is really good pilot aiming.

 

Custard , thx for take your time.

Do the same... but place 8 bf 110 in line, use any plane with minimun 2 x20 minnesglosh... i think u can kill eight in 70 sec and sure u have ammo for kill something more... 

 

Really all this justifications based on capacity killing IA  flying straight... are totally useseless... allways u can kill more with less ammo flying minesglosh TNT ammo.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Yes, thats exactly how 110 fly in MP

If you can't hit a moving target that's you problem not mine.

wink.gif.d03ee9f0ab1a3523662446962d877df1.gif

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1 hour ago, SCG_motoadve said:

.50s are powerful , learn to shoot 😆

Quick mission against 109s on flying a P51 or P47 you can consistently and easily get 5 even 6 kills, in expert mode, no assists or unlimited ammo.

If they fix this then will be a joke, this are not cannons.

 

No, they are not. They _can_ be effective, when you land a good burst at convergence at center mass. But you can say the same about every single weapon in the sim, including .303s. Otherwise you need to depend on luck (you need to sever a wing spar, a control cable, and so on). Learn to shoot is a terrible response, because by that logic a .22 pistol is just as powerful as a .45. Just learn to shoot! 

 

By comparison, HE weapons will quickly cripple a target even if nothing vital is hit, through aerodynamic damage.  Your quick mission scenario will easily demonstrates how disproportionally effective HE weapons can be by comparison.

 

There IS something wrong with how AP and HE ammo are modeled, and of course there's the lack of API ammo. You can tell this simply by looking how effective .50s using HE ammo are in this game right now. If the P-51 or P-40 was loaded with HE .50 ammo instead of AP, they would be several times more lethal than it currently is, perhaps even by an order of magnitude. If that was a reflection of reality, you can be absolutely certain the allies would have used HE ammo. 

 

No, correction is indeed needed. Whether it is that AP ammo needs to have a stronger aero impact, HE's aero impact needs to be lessened, or API needs to be introduced to bridge the gap, something needs to be done. Most likely all of the above are needed, to varying degrees.

 

Until then, when an allied pilot shoots down an enemy plane with their .50s, they're succeeding while playing hard mode. :)

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16 minutes ago, HRc_Tumu said:

Do the same... but place 8 bf 110 in line, use any plane with minimun 2 x20 minnesglosh... i think u can kill eight in 70 sec and sure u have ammo for kill something more... 

 

Really all this justifications based on capacity killing IA  flying straight... are totally useseless... allways u can kill more with less ammo flying minesglosh TNT ammo.

We are being told that .50 cal ammunition is  completely useless. The video was to demonstrate that 50 cals can and do cause damage. 

 

when considering damage from 50. cals and 20 mm  ammunition this is a visual representation of those two rounds.

 

aApLoME_700b.jpg.d50cfbd9937a1e3fc29d52b9c76a21c1.jpg

 

Then next to the 30 mm.

 

rZlT6cb.jpg.f587f35e3d278de48d674e64661759ed.jpg

 

The best way to bring this to the attention of the Devs is to record some tracks or a video and PM them with the findings. We still have to see if API will be introduced, if it is I think it will make a big difference. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

If you can't hit a moving target that's you problem not mine.

 

 

>no active back gunners

>Novice AI moving target

 

Ive seen asthmatic Elephants harder to hit.

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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Just now, Cpt_Siddy said:

>no active back gunners

>moving target

 

Ive seen asthmatic Elephants harder to hit.

Yeah but 50 cals are useless and do no damage right?  The point was to show that they cause damage.

 

If you are fighting an enemy aircraft who dares to manoeuvre out of the way and shoot back its going to be that much harder to hit them , wouldn't you agree?  I hope you get the point I'm making?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Yeah but 50 cals are useless and do no damage right?  The point was to show that they cause damage.

 

If you are fighting an enemy aircraft who dares to manoeuvre out of the way and shoot back its going to be that much harder to hit them , wouldn't you agree?  I hope you get the point I'm making?

 

 

The point I am making is the same i made in the other 50. cal thread. 

 

Until we wont make... nay, FORCE people to fly in MP, like real pilots flied, we will have one hit HE damage reign supreme. 

 

 

Until this kind of high ACE pilotage is not made impossible or highly undesirable, weapons that require multiple, consecutive accurate, hits before any aerodynamic penalty even think of occurring, non HE ammo will always lose to one hit HE that will degrade aerodynamics of the plane and make him less of a threat. 

 

The 110's in multiplayer environment often hug the trees, wiggle wiggle and force overshoot and then deploy flaps, throttle forward and try to shoot you in your pass. 

All while their back gunner shoots you with stupendous accuracy. 

 

This is all irrelevant in Single player, mostly, but in MP it is meta. 


 

 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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2 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

Until we wont make... nay, FORCE people to fly in MP, like real pilots flied, we will have one hit HE damage reign supreme

 Yes but we are not real pilots and we are not fighting in a real war and I'm pretty sure that we're not going to FORCE people to do anything. 

7 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

The 110's in multiplayer environment often hug the trees, wiggle wiggle and force overshoot and then deploy flaps, throttle forward and try to shoot you in your pass. 

Yeah it's kinda like they don't want to make it easy to get hit wouldn't you say? 

 

8 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

All while their back gunner shoots you at stupendous accuracy.

That's a server side setting that can be changed by the admins.

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7 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

 

The point I am making is the same i made in the other 50. cal thread. 

 

Until we wont make... nay, FORCE people to fly in MP, like real pilots flied, we will have one hit HE damage reign supreme. 


 

 

 

It's almost impossible to fly "like real pilots flied" in a game. It would not be fun for example to fly with odds of 10/1 (or more) late war as a German pilot

Forget history, just aim for fun I think in MP.

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Posted (edited)

Custard, are you trolling or is this really the level of .... quality you are ok in your simulator?

 

People in real wars had even less of a desire of being hit, yet we dont have the Hartman's guide of "evasive aerial seizures" or mid air flap break-dance with twin engine heavy fighters at 200m altitude. 

5 minutes ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

It's almost impossible to fly "like real pilots flied" in a game. It would not be fun for example to fly with odds of 10/1 (or more) late war as a German pilot

Forget history, just aim for fun I think in MP.

 

Simulator is for simulation, if i want mouse-aim wharthunder experience of evasive flying, i have... well, warthunder for that. 

Perhaps, if we change this games title from simulator to more fitting one... Call of wings, Thunder of duty? Ace combat with props? 

Edited by Cpt_Siddy
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2 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Custard, are you trolling or is this really the level of .... quality you are ok in your simulator?

 

People in real wars had even less of a desire of being hit, yet we dont have the Hartman's guide of "evasive aerial seizures" or mid air flap break-dance with twin engine heavy fighters at 200m altitude. 

 

Simulator is for simulation, if i want mouse-aim wharthunder experience of evasive flying, i have... well, warthunder for that. 

 

It might be for you, its not for everyone. I can play what I like how I like , just as you can. In MP its about enjoying the experience however you want or I want. 

 

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1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

Custard, are you trolling or is this really the level of .... quality you are ok in your simulator?

Siddy are you really always this hostile?  Maybe you need to take a chill pill or something? You are just rambling at this point.

 

3 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

People in real wars had even less of a desire of being hit, yet we dont have the Hartman's guide of "evasive aerial seizures" or mid air flap break-dance with twin engine heavy fighters at 200m altitude. 

This isn't real life, its a game.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

It might be for you, its not for everyone. I can play what I like how I like , just as you can. In MP its about enjoying the experience however you want or I want. 

 

 

Sure thing, but this attitude will condemn any non HE weapon to obsolescence in MP environment. Pick your poison. 

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1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

Siddy are you really always this hostile?  Maybe you need to take a chill pill or something? You are just rambling at this point.

 

This isn't real life, its a game.

 

 

 

Exactly +1

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1 minute ago, 6./ZG26_Custard said:

 

This isn't real life, its a game.

 

 

This is simulator. 

 

Well, i like to think this as one, but perhaps you are right... 

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1 minute ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

 

This is simulator. 

 

Well, i like to think this as one, but perhaps you are right... 

 

It's both and that is your problem, you can't see that

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Cpt_Siddy said:

This is simulator. 

 

Well, i like to think this as one, but perhaps you are right... 

No simulator or game will ever be 100% accurate with the current technology available not even the mighty MSFS 2020. 

There are many things in the Great Battles series that I think are absolutely great and some things that I think are not so great. Having said that, I genuinely believe that the small Dev team and producer that we have are trying the best they can to make the best possible WWII combat flight sim. There is always a surprise around the corner and I'm hopeful that the team will continue to improve and update and fix things whenever they can.    

 

Edit:

 

No hard feelings and I can understand why folk can get frustrated but the best way forward is to submit bug reports. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Custard
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

.50s are powerful , learn to shoot 😆

Quick mission against 109s on flying a P51 or P47 you can consistently and easily get 5 even 6 kills, in expert mode, no assists or unlimited ammo.

If they fix this then will be a joke, this are not cannons.

You tell me how to shoot jajajaja what a joke.  Maybe you can learn something from me.

If the DEVs dont like this post, sorry but is the true. I pay as all for this game. And yes I can rise my voice like everyone else can do.

0.50 cal are really powerfull, but in game damage are not correct. For a example 0.50 impact in axis planes wings (are made like a paper sheet) one hole in 1 hole out, that is not true, wings have a lot of different parts inside, and vital parts could be damage .

 

 

Edited by 666GIAP_Necathor
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

You tell me how to shoot jajajaja what a joke.  Maybe you can learn something from me.

If the DEVs dont like this post, sorry but is the true. I pay as all for this game. And yes I can rise my voice like everyone else can do.

0.50 cal are really powerfull, but in game damage are not correct. For a example 0.50 impact in axis planes wings (are made like a paper sheet) one hole in 1 hole out, that is not true, wings have a lot of different parts inside, and vital parts could be damage .

 

 

You are the one complaining its too difficult to shoot 109s, with .50s,  not me.

Pura vida mae.

Edited by SCG_motoadve
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1 hour ago, 666GIAP_Necathor said:

You tell me how to shoot jajajaja what a joke.  Maybe you can learn something from me.

If the DEVs dont like this post, sorry but is the true. I pay as all for this game. And yes I can rise my voice like everyone else can do.

0.50 cal are really powerfull, but in game damage are not correct. For a example 0.50 impact in axis planes wings (are made like a paper sheet) one hole in 1 hole out, that is not true, wings have a lot of different parts inside, and vital parts could be damage .

 

 

 

The visual representation and actual damage done are not same . Cosmetics only, so its not a very accurate way to measure damage.
 

What is clear though from playing is explosive cannon shells do a lot of damage to the aerodynamics of the plane compared to .50 call rounds.

From my reading and posts seen on this forum , only some of the .50cal ammo types are modeled for the M2 browning's used in game.

 

It is also well documented if you do the research the Russian .50 cal sized rounds are more effective but the M2 when used in quantity( 3-4 guns per wing)  were also quite effective in WW2.

 

This is quite a good "guide" to ammo effectiveness in ww2 planes
http://quarryhs.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

 

It also discusses the effectiveness of the American M2 browning.

 

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Geez! chill out ,.... it's a game!   The Devs have done an amazing job of making a game incredible. It's for fun not war time training sims.  just have fun watching the flower open.  It's a very visual game but it's just for fun. They ( DEVs / Modders ) worked hard to make this, think of the work it takes to design this level of realism:drinks:

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5 minutes ago, SMARTAZZ said:

Geez! chill out ,.... it's a game!   The Devs have done an amazing job of making a game incredible. It's for fun not war time training sims.  just have fun watching the flower open.  It's a very visual game but it's just for fun. They ( DEVs / Modders ) worked hard to make this, think of the work it takes to design this level of realism:drinks:

 

Ya totally , I don't think that's the point though, its just a discussion on an element people want improved. Nothing wrong with this type of discussion, although the M2 gun discussion has multiple threads now. DM's are always controversial. 

 

Personally, in general I very much like the current damage model, its one of the best around in any combat sim,  and it will continually evolve too, and it will never please all.

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Look, let me tell you an anecdote. 

 

I jumped on 109 K-4 from dead 6, shot him full of bullets in my 51 (150oct), he was leaking from every possible hole (no fire tho). Then when i was leaving him alone, he tailed me, catches me and engaged me and one bullet and i cant no longer keep my plane level and have to ditch. (then he fly for another 5 minutes with leaks and ditches)

 

This story has happened so many time in MP, to so many pilots its not even funny. You got a jump on 109 with 50. cals, shoot him up and he still fights on like its nothing.

 

Opposite almost if EVER has happened to 109 pilots, because the aerodynamic damage usually renders his victims unable to fight, let alone pursuit anyone.

When plane get his with 20 or 30mm mineshot, its loses lions share of its combat ability, if not become unflyable. And that is OK, we are not complaining about that... however...

 

The frequency of above mentioned anecdote is so common in MP that people who mainly fly allies are now had enough and there is literally 3 freaking threads about this poop. 

And longer this continues, more people that fly american planes become frustrated when this same thing happens to them. The 50. cal whine threads are not going away, they are going to get more common as more and more people discovers they joys of being totally ineffective in aerial combat against some flimsy 109. 

 

Now, you may hop in to singleplayer, line up a train of 109's 110's or whatever and show us, mere mortals, how REAL MEN do it. And ok, maybe you are cut above the rest, but... consider for a moment, that maybe there is something behind this 50 cal whining. 

Just for a moment, consider that something is causing a considerable portion of people who fly American plane get frustrated enough to come here and use their time to complain about how, time after time, they seem to end up in situations where totally holed 109 just continue fighting like a champ. 

Is the reason 50 cals? I dont know. Maybe it is NetCode, as the single player seems not have these issues... or perhaps in single player it is easy to concentrate a stream on this game's relatively weak AI, who knows? 

 

Bottom line is, considerable enough proportion of player base in MP have had enough and are now posting these threads left and right. Perhaps making dumb comments like "learn to aim" or post videos of shooting down lobotomized AI 110's may not contribute to this in any positive way? 

1 hour ago, SMARTAZZ said:

Modders  worked hard to make this, think of the work it takes to design this level of realism:drinks:

 

Modders have no access to games code, nothing you can mod in this game impacts planes or weapons in any way. 

 

Everything that is right or wrong with this game is solely on the shoulder of development team and anyone who have access to their source. 

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If you can shoot down a bunch of 110s in a row it proves how effective the .50s are. It proves that they aren't weak. They just require better (perhaps a different style of) aiming. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Nice photo about ammo  :)

 

Really dont says too much to me......  for example the tail of bf can perfectly " absorb" 2 x 37 shots and still fighting very well..... Or is easy for shot down a foke you need more than 3x37 mm .... Size if you dont have atomic tech like minnesglosh is irrelevant i thing... 

 

yes 0.5 is weaker and DM of bfs and Foke have very low aeordinamic penality  and extreme resistence to 37mm caliber.  The 0.5 issue starts 5 moths ago i think.... the 37mm i think is from start.

 

The true is,   the perforant ammo HE becomes useless with last patches... i think no one pilot use HE  for air attack ... some times i ask to me... why devs wast time in develop HE? .... but if i do memory  i can remember on past , weapons like 23mm HE was very effective.... then some problem need be with it if 50% of ammo you develop for game become useless no? 
but missed incendiary for 0.5 ... damm.... anyway,   incendiary and fuel system no will solve situation  i think.

 

Main problem  maybe is . after lot of pressure in all places , about 20mm minesglosh ammo, developers  team focus all effort in minesglosh.... now 20 minnesglos is the beast and the best! more than 50% of costumers are very happy, silent on forums... all ok.... 
but results on 0.5 cause a wave of allied complains.... we are less but as say neca, have right to claim . This situation isnt new.... comes from near to half year ago... maybe we dont do enought noise? :)

 

About made videos for complaing....  not needed is enought clear , they have better tools for made test , and with the " bermudas triangle" of netcode .... all is missed in a black box.

 

But seems many people are happy and try to teach to us , aim for example , hehehehehe.  No this is not the way.

 

Anyway, i allways hope all this things will be adressed, but as neca comments, better if is soon than later.

 

 

 

 

Edit: I edit to try be more objective,  20mm minnesglos is the champion, but all 20 mm work very well for both sides. Spitfire , la5 and of course tempest, are very close to bfs or foke on ammo power. The things become strange with the rest of calibers. Drag effects and lost of maneuvor capacity after be hitted are nice , this are very hard and becomes inmediatly after single  API 20mm impact on wings , i like all this effects but we need a more complex scale of this caused by the rest of calibers , for 0.5 practically is null  and  effect of 20mm in comparasion with rest dont keep proportionality. 

 

 

 

Edited by HRc_Tumu

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, =RS=Stix_09 said:

 

Ya totally , I don't think that's the point though, its just a discussion on an element people want improved. Nothing wrong with this type of discussion, although the M2 gun discussion has multiple threads now. DM's are always controversial. 

 

Personally, in general I very much like the current damage model, its one of the best around in any combat sim,  and it will continually evolve too, and it will never please all.

My Apologies, you are right 🤪     Cpt_Siddy you are right as well , My Apologies to you also 👍

Edited by SMARTAZZ
added thought

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To all those who want to deny that  Earth is the center of the universe and even send to the stake all those who openly affirm that Earth is not flat...

1007563438_Capturadepantalla(6).thumb.png.a6761d8a23255efbc3edb13963b84241.png

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm nothing related to Scharfi, but this vid is a good example how hard is "having fun" in a "just a simple game" even for amazing skilled pilots in MP. What will be you next step in this topic? Openly call them, and of course the rest of us (simple regular pilots), cheaters or, even better, witches and send us to the stake???? 

I dare you, double dare you, triple dare you to record and upload a similar vid like Scharfi's one or like yours against 4 110's but this time against 4 humans at the front and 4 AI's in the rear guns, just to demonstrate you're RIGHT and those who dare complaining are simply peevish mates.

Please, do everybody (Dev's included) a real favor... stay away from every 0.50's forum topic and stop using your  "copy- paste speech about lack- of- aiming- go- back- to- school- noob!!!! ", bacause is becoming a "meme".    

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6 minutes ago, Tatata_Time said:

 

To all those who want to deny that  Earth is the center of the universe and even send to the stake all those who openly affirm that Earth is not flat...

1007563438_Capturadepantalla(6).thumb.png.a6761d8a23255efbc3edb13963b84241.png

 

 

Disclaimer: I'm nothing related to Scharfi, but this vid is a good example how hard is "having fun" in a "just a simple game" even for amazing skilled pilots in MP. What will be you next step in this topic? Openly call them, and of course the rest of us (simple regular pilots), cheaters or, even better, witches and send us to the stake???? 

I dare you, double dare you, triple dare you to record and upload a similar vid like Scharfi's one or like yours against 4 110's but this time against 4 humans at the front and 4 AI's in the rear guns, just to demonstrate you're RIGHT and those who dare complaining are simply peevish mates.

Please, do everybody (Dev's included) a real favor... stay away from every 0.50's forum topic and stop using your  "copy- paste speech about lack- of- aiming- go- back- to- school- noob!!!! ", bacause is becoming a "meme".    

 

If only they learned how to aim they would get 10+ kills per sortie like before 4.005 with 0.50s. You know the more you play the wors you are at it, so their aim is getting wors and wors, better stop before they totaly forghet how to aim.

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I'm puzzled by the use of the above video.

 

Surely the vid shows that 50 cals can be effective?  Get a concentrated burst into the engine or pilot and the enemy goes down.  Hit like a shotgun all over the airframe and  the enemy can fight for longer - then it becomes attritional damage.

 

My personal experience is that sometimes I can't put something down.  Other times, one short burst and they're on fire or the pilot is dead or I've hit something quite fundamental to controlled flight.

 

As for the OP, if he truly is in Costa Rica then he's a long way from any of the most populated multiplayer servers so perhaps packet loss etc becomes a factor.  Again personally speaking, I know that if I am on Combat Box that I need to fire in longer bursts to do the same damage as I might on a Euro server.

 

von Tom

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Gun cam footage is not the sort of thing that can be classed as a scientific demonstration but an awful lot of footage shows aircraft catching fire from the guns of P-51'S and 47'S. Various sources state that from 44 onwards the ammunition belts for the 50's were almost exclusively made up of  API rounds. This is something that I earnestly hope will be included in a future update. I think if it is the 50 cal will operate very differently to how it does now. 

 

 

 

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The main thrust of the original post seems to be that .50 cals are more or less useless in a fight so I did a flight tonight with 4 P-51's v 4 Bf 109 G6's. The AI was set to veteran. I fly ground attack and am a mediocre virtual pilot at best. 

 

 I used approximately 450 rounds of ammunition with convergence set to 300. and shot down 3 109's in around 5 minutes.

 

In the first shoot down you can see that the aircraft loses some flight stability right before the pilot is killed at around 12 seconds. I continue firing but that is a dead aircraft.

 

At around 1.30 the second aircraft is set on fire and the pilot is also killed. I then proceed to flail around until around the 5 minute mark and pick up the 3rd aircraft and get a pilot kill at 4:40.  

 

As I have already stated, I'm a  decidedly average pilot and I am well aware that fighting against real opponents online is much tougher than against AI. Maybe that is because they are using every trick in the book to avoid being hit and many have flown more online hours than real WWII pilots did over the whole war. 

 

If you feel so inclined, watch the video and make up your own mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

    

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Posted (edited)

Just to throw in my two cents into this hornets nest of a discussion. I've been playing il2 for a couple of months now after a long hiatus and have been putting some effort into learning the ins and outs of dogfighting. I've been flying both sides but mainly allies as combat is a lot less forgiving with them so feel it is a better way to learn.  

 

From my perspective the actual damage .50 cals do doesn't seem to be that far off. We certainly are in need of API so a second good burst has a good chance of starting a fire. But providing you get decent hits on they are having a plausible effect. 109s do seem to be an issue, the amount of damage they are able to fly with effectively is definitely not right. Certainly how long the engine can last at full power despite being hit and leaking coolant.

 

Anyway, my thoughts after my comparatively brief experience is that this a convergence and gun accuracy problem more than anything. Having tested convergences ranging from 100-600m the patterns seem way too tight. Even being a couple of mils above your target at 200m you can watch the rounds neatly skim over it's wings without any hits landing. I think that's why we are seeing the disparities in what very good players are able to do vs. us mortals and SP vs. MP (where the enemy rather rudely tries to avoid incoming fire).

 

Here are some of the gun harmonisation charts for the p47/p51.

 

You can see the expected level of dispersion from each of the guns and the pattern across different distances (bear in mind only 75% of rounds were expected to land in the circles whilst the plane was stationary on the ground so actual dispersion would be even more significant in combat). This is in stark contrast to what we are getting in the sim where the rounds seem tightly grouped even out to 400m (running higher convergence then shooting at 400m). This means if you aren't right on the money then you're unlikely to score significant hits and even if you are, all of your rounds are going to land close together and you've got much less chance of hitting anything vital. The 50s will never beat centre mounted cannons and should they never even be remotely close. But the advantage of having 6 or 8 50s can't be utilised because the patterns we are firing are far too condensed.

 

I certainly don't foresee complex gun harmonisation in our future and although it would be great, I feel it's something that would likely be a massive time hole from a development perspective. I think the solution lies in what would hopefully be a simpler solution: decreasing the accuracy of the 50 cals so we can expect significantly larger convergence patterns.

 

This is my first post here and was a late night, unchecked ramble so apologies if I've made any faux pas.

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Edited by Cass
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