Operation Sandstorm

[69thSpiritus]

RAF Briefing:

 

Operation Sandstorm RAF.rar

 

 

Luftwaffe Briefing:

 

Operation Sandstorm Luftwaffe.rar

 

 

[5th_Barone]

This looks really interesting. Hope to see people that will play the objectives and try to win the map.

Briefings for all missions on the official server will be published?

[69thSpiritus]

51 minutes ago, 5th_Barone said:

This looks really interesting. Hope to see people that will play the objectives and try to win the map.

Briefings for all missions on the official server will be published?

 

Thanks. It should offer everyone something the way I set it up. Quick fur-balls, rear airbases for bombers who want altitude, targets that will take multiple big bombers, softer targets that fighters could help on, torpedo and bomber coordinatization, and the quick fur-balls shouldn't happen at random areas, they'll probably happen in important areas for winning the map. 

 

Might have to see how it goes for the first few runs with the big ships, could prove to be too much AA and people might complain. 

 

Regarding the briefings, I think it will be a choice for who makes the maps. I hope they will publish the briefings though because the GUI limitation doesn't allow the "slides" for briefings for MP like it does for the SP missions. This is the main reason I publish my missions so I can include recon photos. 

 

 

 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Flown the mission a couple of times. Lighting is awesome at that time of day. And when bombed the Allied fuel storage the blast was spectacular

[FTC_Derplo]

Love the mission, great work! 

 

I would like to point out theres no option for Regia Aeronautica at any airfield. Not that big of a deal because I can just turn markings off, but I spend a lot of time parachuting and would prefer to show off my fancy italian pilot's outfit rather than the German one

[FTC_Derplo]

Also Axis needs a closer 2nd airfield because main airfield was capped. Next closest airfield back is Tobruk

Edited August 15, 2020 by Control_Freq

[69thSpiritus]

The airfields for both are pretty evenly spaced, with the two near the invasion force being the close ones for each side. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Is it intentional that when attacking the Sidi Barrani re-supply you do not get a percentage how much of it is destroyed? Have blown up the fuel storage, sunk the ship and bombed/strafed ground targets, but no message at all. Also noticed that at Tobruk harbour a sunk cargo ship floated some tens of meters in the air where it had sunk. A smaller combat vessel was lying on it´s side in the water.

[69thSpiritus]

The ships can sometimes do that, believe that is a netcode issue.

 

Regarding the re-supply, I think that target is set to 80%, so you'll need to destroy a good chunk of both areas for it to turn. Could be as simple as missing one truck or cargo box. 

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Not sure if that's the map I played on last saturday but I believe the airfield was indestructible.

Couldn't disable it. Is this working as intended?

Thanks for the effort you put in this map I couldn't stand those default maps anymore.

[69thSpiritus]

3 hours ago, =FEW=Hauggy said:

Not sure if that's the map I played on last saturday but I believe the airfield was indestructible.

Couldn't disable it. Is this working as intended?

Thanks for the effort you put in this map I couldn't stand those default maps anymore.

You need to see which map it is, I've checked the airfields, they turn at 100%. There are a couple of other missions whrere the airfields aren't turning and need adjustments. 

[5th_Hellrider]

Despite the intent to make an interesting map, also this mission turns into a continuous vulching. Indeed, a "Vulching fest".

 

Having only one base, per side, close to the front and the rest far enough away doesn't help, especially if you consider the average Clod player (used to vulching and starting from the nearest bases and rarely landing).

The way of playing Clod has always been a problem, and with the exception of a few players, the rest play as fast-food stuff. They would probably need a server with a smaller map. 

 

I recommend putting a few more bases halfway and filling them with heavy AAA. As mentioned by others, the Regia Aeronautica is missing.

 

 

 

 

[OBT-Mikmak]

Totally agree, the continuous vulching without AAA threat discourage lot of pilots to fly.

Please put more AAA with best skill.

I'm afraid that this will seriously deteriorate the success of Tobruk...

IMHO, vulching is not rewarding... please be fair play pilots and avoid vulching planes on ground and on take off.

Isn't it more rewarding to fight a plane with real chance to beat you ?

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by OBT-Mikmak

[5th_Barone]

14 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

Totally agree, the continuous vulching without AAA threat discourage lot of pilots to fly.

Please put more AAA with best skill.

I'm afraid that this will seriously deteriorate the success of Tobruk...

IMHO, vulching is not rewarding... please be fair play pilots and avoid vulching planes on ground and on take off.

Isn't it more rewarding to fight a plane with real chance to beat you ?

 

Unfortunately voulching has always been with clod.

Most players just like the spawn-strafe-die-restart style of game. Without even care to land.

Playing in a call of duty stile. Never understood that.

[OBT-Mikmak]

A feature that would be interesting to avoid this kind of behavior would be to get score only when you land safely in your airfield.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

You resolve this creating an event that is not 24/7.

 

So: you have to applied, you receive briefing of the mission, you fly to complete your task and when the mission is over you have your stats..

Pilots that come back safe home have a bonus, if you die you have a malus.

 

This way change the behaviour of pilots, plus  due to you know who is going to partecipate ti the event you can set rule like no voulching..

[5th_Barone]

11 minutes ago, OBT-Mikmak said:

A feature that would be interesting to avoid this kind of behavior would be to get score only when you land safely in your airfield.

The fact is that most doesn't do obj. They just spawn fly and strafe the first apt available.

There are the objs in the maps don't understand why none try to win the map. But has always been a problem encountered in clod apart from caimpagn servers where play style was different.

[JG1_Lipfert]

Kameraden,

 

Word of advise, attempted group attack on the Queen Elizabeth. It ended poorly, suggest staying away from the Battleship. We all died about 5 seconds apart.....

 

S!

[69thSpiritus]

I've doubled the amount of flak and Bofors around the closest airfields. People vulch regardless of what mission makers do. I could look into making another spawn point when I have time. 

[ITAF_Airone1989]

@69thSpiritus

Please, can you check if the grid position of the targets in the description is the same as in the mission?

I tried to find some of them today but I saw nothing

[I/JG54_chuishan]

20 hours ago, 69thSpiritus said:

making another spawn point

 

Making more of them please! 

 

The axis front-line AF is too close to the front line, which causes vulching and spawn camping, and all the AFs in vicinity of Gambut are unavailable.  

 

To me the following arrangement for this particular map is more favourable:

 

 

EDIT: Sorry for my typo in the picture:) 

 

And if a dogfight map is needed, I think Dangerdogz server has done a good job by making a mock-up Tobruk pocket and keep everybody concentrated in the Tobruk harbor area.

 

 

Sadly for Chinese players living in UTC +8 time zone, we have to stay up until at least 1 o'clock to take a mere sip for a populated server... And it's too demanding for us to either stayed up until 4 o'clock or getting up so early to enjoy a 50-player MP environment. I desperately want a populated server to enjoy but only find it a kind of luxury... ?

Edited August 24, 2020 by I/JG54_chuishan

[5th_Hellrider]

1 hour ago, I/JG54_chuishan said:

Sadly for Chinese players living in UTC +8 time zone, we have to stay up until at least 1 o'clock to take a mere sip for a populated server... And it's too demanding for us to either stayed up until 4 o'clock or getting up so early to enjoy a 50-player MP environment. I desperately want a populated server to enjoy but only find it a kind of luxury... ?

 

Unfortunately servers are depopulated for most of the day. There are more people (30-40 players) between 19-23 GMT. Sad but true.

 

It would be nice to have a clearer and more concise mission briefing. This too has always been a weak point of Clod: briefings are too long and distracting, which most players don't even read.

As I wrote before, yes, we need bases halfway, and these must be protected by a strong AAA. The bases near the front can also be considered as emergency bases, therefore possibly less protected.

 

The thing that could give you the most incentive to fly to targets is to have bombardment points. People would be tempted to bomb them to score points. Bombers = Fighters in that area to escort and attack them. We need this.

 

So an accurate stats system and a nice ranking on the site (for fighters, bombers and squads) are a priority, in my opinion.

 

PS: the Regia Aeronautica continues not to be present in this mission.

[ITAF_Airone1989]

In some BoB server there were the possibility to call AI bombers and escort them... This could be a good solution cause give also to the onlyfighterplayers the possibility to protect/destroy large AI formation and help to win the map

[LLv34_Temuri]

2 hours ago, Jean_Jacques said:

It would be nice to have a clearer and more concise mission briefing. This too has always been a weak point of Clod: briefings are too long and distracting, which most players don't even read.

It’s not possible to place target icons on the map?

[ITAF_Airone1989]

I think that if you allow icons on the map than you will see also others airplanes..

 

[5th_Hellrider]

40 minutes ago, LLv34_Temuri said:

It’s not possible to place target icons on the map?

In the briefing map, I'm not sure.

[LLv34_Temuri]

44 minutes ago, ITAF_Airone1989 said:

I think that if you allow icons on the map than you will see also others airplanes..

 

Really? If it is so, correcting this design error should be quite high in the priority list of things.

[=FEW=Hauggy]

Any chance to see vehicle columns and other ground units?

[FTC_Riksen]

Could we get some AI patrols and large bomber formations when the server has a low population?

[ITAF_Airone1989]

3 hours ago, 41Sqn_Riksen said:

Could we get some AI patrols and large bomber formations when the server has a low population?

 

 

Should be not so difficult (just add a simply trigger) and can add a lot of fun

Edited August 25, 2020 by ITAF_Airone1989

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

A couple of things to the otherwise very entertaining mission. Please remove all the useless chat clogging chatter: AI or player has done this and that and now took a dump too etc. I had to remove the server messages from chat window because all I saw were these useless messages, hard to check relevant info. I would not miss the who killed who messages either.

 

Second, limit or remove the instant radar aka asking for targets. AFAIK there were no radar installations used in the African theatre, more like spotters and observers around valuable areas and at the frontline. Would make the target vectors a bit more inaccurate and a delayed too. Now they are pretty much instant and pinpoint. Would add more "fog of war" and players would have to think a bit where to focus their efforts, making it more immersive and realistic.

 

It is a great mission I and a lot of fellow pilots like to fly :) Keep up the good work!

[56RAF_Stickz]

4 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Second, limit or remove the instant radar aka asking for targets. AFAIK there were no radar installations used in the African theatre, more like spotters and observers around valuable areas and at the frontline. Would make the target vectors a bit more inaccurate and a delayed too. Now they are pretty much instant and pinpoint. Would add more "fog of war" and players would have to think a bit where to focus their efforts, making it more immersive and realistic.

Whilst I agree with this limiting instant radar, especially the one that will focus a player regardless of altitude and position, the British at least had mobile radar there (NAfrica) during 1940 but it was a long way back, the sand played havoc (reliability and reception) and it was not much use to them (too short ranged). But in Feb/Mar 1941 they had a better installation giving them early warnings and some target control. Still pretty limited. This from the Mediterranean Air Way series of books (vol 1 in this case). I dont know about Germans or Italians - at this point the Germans had not been there long so maybe not. And as it was a very mobile war (back and forth like a yo yo) be hard pushed to get a permanent installation and the infrastrure to go with it.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@56RAF_Stickz Thanks for the info regarding radars. Just tossed the idea of "fog of war" as now you can be pinpointed since spawning, regardless of range. I find that highly unrealistic and removes any element of surprise. 

[ATAG_Ezzie]

5 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S!

 

@56RAF_Stickz Thanks for the info regarding radars. Just tossed the idea of "fog of war" as now you can be pinpointed since spawning, regardless of range. I find that highly unrealistic and removes any element of surprise. 

Tab 7-1 still enables surprise if you know how it works.  As far as i can tell - havent checked 100% so i could be wrong - its back to the version that was on the ATAG servers in 2014 - 2016 ish.  In this version table 7-1 will track the first enemy fighter and first enemy bomber that spawns in from spawn in until that aircraft is destroyed / despawned. it will then track the second aircraft to spawn in until it is destroyed.  Rinse and repeat.

 

So if you jump into a relatively populated server you wont be tracked until all of the fighters or bombers on your side that spawned in before you have been destroyed/despawned.  So you can still achieve surprise in the sense that you arent being tracked (the Tab 7-1 version that was implemented in 2016-2018 ish tracked the nearest fighter to you and this removed surprise except for those of us who flew twin engined aircraft).

 

When you jump into an empty server you will be tracked from the start and if someone jumps in on the other side they will be tracking you and you will be tracking them.  I think this is the compromise for quiet servers - if there's only a handful on the server if you use tab 7-1 and understand how it works you should be able to find someone to fight. Not realistic but a compromise.

 

So you can still achieve surprise - i have been bouncing Spits etc in a 110 behind their lines on populated servers - until such time as you are being tracked by Tab 7-1.

 

re radar - just to add on what Stickz says there was a mobile radar at Tobruk from Jan / Feb 1941. It provided the Hurricanes with about 10-15 minutes warning time to scramble.  Shameless plug - this is replicated in the Rats over Tobruk campaign.

 

This is an interesting read if you are interested in the radar in the desert - http://www.rquirk.com/cdnradar/cor/chapter7.pdf. I used it as one of the sources for the Rats campaign re the radar side of things.

Edited August 27, 2020 by ZG76_Ezzie

[56RAF_Stickz]

34 minutes ago, ZG76_Ezzie said:

When you jump into an empty server you will be tracked from the start and if someone jumps in on the other side they will be tracking you and you will be tracking them.  I think this is the compromise for quiet servers - if there's only a handful on the server if you use tab 7-1 and understand how it works you should be able to find someone to fight. Not realistic but a compromise.

In a blenheim, that was the last thing I was looking for. As you say, it can be ok in a populated server - but then again if flying with others it just gives a double chance of being tracked especially in a bomber. I recall our meteor advert - "theres no escape" (the A2A missile - not the plane, I worked on that horrid thing as an engineer). Until you learnt the spawn an AI flight trick.

 

38 minutes ago, ZG76_Ezzie said:

This is an interesting read if you are interested in the radar in the desert - http://www.rquirk.com/cdnradar/cor/chapter7.pdf. I used it as one of the sources for the Rats campaign re the radar side of things.

I was a radar engineer, maintenance tech in air force then design & development until had to retire coupla years back. From meteors, hunters, lightnings using valves to solid state AESA types .

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

@56RAF_Stickz and @ZG76_Ezzie Thanks for answer and extra info for reading

[Sokol1]

7 hours ago, ZG76_Ezzie said:

...radar in the desert - http://www.rquirk.com/cdnradar/cor/chapter7.pdf. 

 

"Well, during the daytime shift... our fellows that were on duty and operating in the radar trailer, for maybe an hour or two. They'd be sitting in a pair of shorts, and sweating the daylights out of then. We were a very improvise unit. We had old tin trailers and if i was 125 degrees (~49ºC) , well inside there must have bee 150 degrees (~65º C), furthermore, inside, we had do have it in the dark, so therefore you had about three blankets that you king of zig-zagged through for keep any outside light form getting in. Any light wold affect the operator's view of the screen, much like early TV."

 

"One chap, I remember bragging around that he'd got a bully beef tin an he said" 'You know what was marked on the bottom of it? Crimean War!" ?

[69thSpiritus]

Added more flak/AAA. Added Halfaya as another airbase with all Allied aircraft available. Made Amseat No2 an emergency field, only Allied fighters/attack aircraft are available there. Axis now have Gambut No3 as another airbase with all Axis aircraft available. Menastir No2 is an emergency field, only fighter/attack aircraft are available there. 

Also added AAA encampments for both sides along the northern front line.  Not sure when the new version will go live, hopefully in the next 24 hours. 

 

Briefing is like 8 sentences for each side, not sure how to make that more concise than it already is. 

 

There are truck columns that spawn in every 30 minutes. Nothing to do with the mission but they are there if you want to attack them. 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

Nice updates :) Found out that the warship(cruiser etc) flak does not make any hitsounds in the mission nor any puffs or tracers. Flew a Hurricane and all the sudden damage messages poured and damage appeared, but no sounds at all.

[5th_Hellrider]

2 hours ago, 69thSpiritus said:

Added more flak/AAA. Added Halfaya as another airbase with all Allied aircraft available. Made Amseat No2 an emergency field, only Allied fighters/attack aircraft are available there. Axis now have Gambut No3 as another airbase with all Axis aircraft available. Menastir No2 is an emergency field, only fighter/attack aircraft are available there. 

Also added AAA encampments for both sides along the northern front line.  Not sure when the new version will go live, hopefully in the next 24 hours. 

 

Briefing is like 8 sentences for each side, not sure how to make that more concise than it already is. 

 

There are truck columns that spawn in every 30 minutes. Nothing to do with the mission but they are there if you want to attack them. 

Great job!