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Developer Diary 257 - Discussion


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15 hours ago, SJ_Butcher said:

 

To be honest the first picture looks way better and clear than the second one.

It's atmospheric perspective. This is realistic, the first picture would be when there is almost no atmosphere.

Edited by longjap
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216th_Jordan
8 hours ago, Elem said:

 Where do you fly? 

 

Central Germany near Kassel mostly.

 

2 frames of 2 videos I found on my phone in a quick search. They are 2 years old as I do not have newer ones recorded on my phone.

Also not that there is no canopy glass in the ingame-screenshot inbetween the viewer and the scenery that adds some milkyness like in the pictures I took.

 

Even with the canopy I never had that very diffuse shine which btw you can also see on the wing in the picture, not just the scenery. 

There is a reason why many pilots manipulate the gamma to be able to spot ingame.

 

My free guess is that there is more light in the game environment (in most situations) than there would be physically. (You can see it in the washed out shadows/trees that glow) Thats why I think PBR could help tremendously.

 

 

Screenshot_20200812-184656_Video Player.jpg

Screenshot_20200812-184747_Video Player.jpg

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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That VL map is absolutely stunning, great job! I personally prefer smaller and more detailed maps over huge ones, so it's great to have the option. Plus it's free.😉👍

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So long, farewell....

RIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP.png.3ad6aca7392d76fb44140e790d6129c4.png

 

 

8 hours ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Central Germany near Kassel mostly.

 

2 frames of 2 videos I found on my phone in a quick search. They are 2 years old as I do not have newer ones recorded on my phone.

Also not that there is no canopy glass in the ingame-screenshot inbetween the viewer and the scenery that adds some milkyness like in the pictures I took.

 

Even with the canopy I never had that very diffuse shine which btw you can also see on the wing in the picture, not just the scenery. 

There is a reason why many pilots manipulate the gamma to be able to spot ingame.

 

My free guess is that there is more light in the game environment (in most situations) than there would be physically. (You can see it in the washed out shadows/trees that glow) Thats why I think PBR could help tremendously.


The games rendering pipeline is gamma incorrect. This is probably a legacy thing and because they support a non-HDR mode that is using an 8bit framebuffer. Because of this the ambient is way brighter than it should be so things look OK with HDR set to off. With HDR set to on they do some goofy contrast adjustment that just clips the highlights and shadows and also screws with the color temp.

Edited by LizLemon
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33 minutes ago, LizLemon said:

So long, farewell....

RIPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP.png.3ad6aca7392d76fb44140e790d6129c4.png

 

 

I'm assuming you were working on a summer mod for the Novo map?

Just to make it 100% clear, they did not add summer to the Novo map, just the VL map.

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On 8/12/2020 at 2:13 AM, SJ_Butcher said:

 

To be honest the first picture looks way better and clear than the second one.

 

To be honest the first picture looks more clear (cartoonish) than the second one that looks more realistic.

I know that funs who prefer quick entertainment - would certainly spot the enemy plane with a cammo:  easier and faster on the first version.

The second one looks much more realistic, but of course with a much more difficulty to spot the camouflaged enemy plane...

 

It is never ending story between funs who prefer quick entertainment - and people who admire war realism...

(...and not only in this sim, but in variety of war simulations )

Edited by esk_pedja
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3 hours ago, esk_pedja said:

It is never ending story between funs who prefer quick entertainment - and people who admire war realism...

(...and not only in this sim, but in variety of war simulations )

 

Iv'e never had to fight a war in a combat aircraft before so I will have to rely on your professional combat experience as to what is fun and what is realism...   🙈

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15 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

I'm assuming you were working on a summer mod for the Novo map?

Just to make it 100% clear, they did not add summer to the Novo map, just the VL map.

 

Yeah but all the texture work is useless now. Maybe I'll do novo/vl autumn instead.

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IRRE_Nyechou
On 8/12/2020 at 2:13 AM, SJ_Butcher said:

 

To be honest the first picture looks way better and clear than the second one.

i deeply agree . Enough with the washed out graphics ! We ( my team and me) all agree that there is a lack of contrast in this game .

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30 minutes ago, -IRRE-Nyechou said:

i deeply agree . Enough with the washed out graphics ! We ( my team and me) all agree that there is a lack of contrast in this game .

 

Contrast? What's that on this game? Lol

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3 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

Iv'e never had to fight a war in a combat aircraft before so I will have to rely on your professional combat experience as to what is fun and what is realism...   🙈

 

You can relay on my many civil flights over European landscapes , and believe me that with rising altitude land contrast is decreasing, especially on distant parts of landscape...

Once you fly above clouds ( above humidity of warmer air ) it is different story. ( this is summer map with a clouds as you can see... )

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216th_Jordan
1 hour ago, esk_pedja said:

 

You can relay on my many civil flights over European landscapes , and believe me that with rising altitude land contrast is decreasing, especially on distant parts of landscape...

Once you fly above clouds ( above humidity of warmer air ) it is different story. ( this is summer map with a clouds as you can see... )

 

Well the picture we talk about is taken from 1k or below:

_VLS_01.jpg

 

What we see is:

- an overall "milkyness" of the image

- shadowed / occluded areas have a diffuse lighting that makes them shine and that irritates when watching around

- the (scenery) rendering has a certain level of blurryness while objects seem very sharp. It does not seem to fit together very well and swallows details (and possibly makes spotting harder)

 

I find that the discussion revolves between 2 sides that either claim the new picture to show something super realistic and others that claim it to be super unrealistic and impossible to play by. There is probably some truth in both and I don't see why it is not possible to see or say that:

1.) Yes the new picture and scenery is pretty and has a lot to offer

2.) Yes the rendering has problems and they are visible and can be named.

 

Just my 2 cents. I still like the progress.

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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1 hour ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Well the picture we talk about is taken from 1k or below:

- the (scenery) rendering has a certain level of blurryness while objects seem very sharp. It does not seem to fit together very well and swallows details (and possibly makes spotting harder)

 

 

1 km under the wing... but further landscape is from 2km-5km distance in a humid summer day.

Surprise, surprise... Constructed objects seems sharper  than surrounding bush an trees... ?  Who would expect that ?! 

           image.png.2b2082c4fa1d9d247f8be6dc7aeeb713.png

 

 

Edited by esk_pedja
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216th_Jordan
1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

All this over two pictures? 😆 

 

A picture says more than 1000 words :) 2 even more...

Edited by 216th_Jordan
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Nice map, female pilot, yeah, great :)

But maybe try to improve the MP performance

Eliminate invisible planes bug

Eliminate invisible trees bug

Improve the damage visualisation - while playing tanks you can see the bombs craters 5 m above the ground or on top of the others tanks.

While making 4k sins for planes is good - the ground objects graphics could be also improved...

will skip the topic of the bombs effectiveness...

Edited by 315_R2r
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12 minutes ago, 315_R2r said:

Nice map, female pilot, yeah, great :)

But maybe try to improve the MP performance

Eliminate invisible planes bug

Eliminate invisible trees bug

Improve the damage visualisation - while playing tanks you can see the bombs craters 5 m above the ground or on top of the others tanks.

While making 4k sins for planes is good - the ground objects graphics could be also improved...

will skip the topic of the bombs effectiveness...

Invisible planes bug was worked on last patch and the way it occurs should be corrected now. If you have noticed the bug since that last patch you should post it in the thread so they can see it is still an issue and find the other reasons it occurs. There's a new bug that some people get where they can't see anyone else on the server, but this appears to be different from the previous bug and could be entirely unrelated. That has been reported as well. 

New patch today talks about static objects visibility and collision modeling in the patch notes so they may have looked at the invisible trees. If you collide with an invisible tree try and note the location on the map so it can be fixed. Also numerous improvements for Tank Crew.

4k skins are done by community members, not the core team. So it happens when it happens, as a bonus. Its not the same people who work on the ground objects

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On 8/17/2020 at 8:31 PM, RedKestrel said:

Invisible planes bug was worked on last patch and the way it occurs should be corrected now. If you have noticed the bug since that last patch you should post it in the thread so they ...

New patch today talks about static objects visibility and collision modeling in the patch notes so they may have looked at the invisible trees. If you collide with an invisible tree try and note the location on the map so it can be fixed. Also numerous improvements for Tank Crew....
 

Ok, will pay attention again for the above bugs - would be nice if some kind of that bug fixing list would be shown somewhere... Did not see it in this diary - but maybe it was mentioned somewhere else and I overlook it - don't hate me, just point out where such a list of fixed bugs is :)

On the other hand just after last patch 4.009 I have strange issue in tank, no tracers from machine gun or from the main gun, both AP and HE and no impact shown of my shoots... After restarting the game it was ok. Happened just once so far.

And one more thing, that is bit irritating as well, the rendering of the objects - don't know if this apply to all objects like planes and tanks etc.. but it is clearly visible when you attack ships.

Depending on the zoom level the object is visible or not - you spot on high zoom the ship, while approaching it and getting closer to it if you start changing zoom from close to far and from far to close at some moment of time/zoom level the ship disappear and then appear again.

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9 minutes ago, 315_R2r said:

... On the other hand just after last patch 4.009 I have strange issue in tank, no tracers from machine gun or from the main gun, both AP and HE and no impact shown of my shoots... After restarting the game it was ok. Happened just once so far ..

 

4.009 I noticed that too, and sometimes my joystick set does not seem to work (for tanks), and then again they work after a game reboot.

Edited by jollyjack
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12 minutes ago, 315_R2r said:

Ok, will pay attention again for the above bugs - would be nice if some kind of that bug fixing list would be shown somewhere... Did not see it in this diary - but maybe it was mentioned somewhere else and I overlook it - don't hate me, just point out where such a list of fixed bugs is :)

On the other hand just after last patch 4.009 I have strange issue in tank, no tracers from machine gun or from the main gun, both AP and HE and no impact shown of my shoots... After restarting the game it was ok. Happened just once so far.

And one more thing, that is bit irritating as well, the rendering of the objects - don't know if this apply to all objects like planes and tanks etc.. but it is clearly visible when you attack ships.

Depending on the zoom level the object is visible or not - you spot on high zoom the ship, while approaching it and getting closer to it if you start changing zoom from close to far and from far to close at some moment of time/zoom level the ship disappear and then appear again.

No hate here. Just pointing out what has been worked on. The developers no doubt have a list of bugs on the to-do list a mile long - and there is no public list of them, other than looking through the Technical issues forum.

 

The patch notes will list bug fixes, though they are not always complete for minor bugs - but the QA people will usually also post in a thread if something has been fixed.

Posting in Update threads about bugs doesn't help much, except maybe immediately after an update. The threads get swamped in discussion, enthusiasm and/or salt to the point where the devs are unlikely to read every post. The only reason to post bug reports in an update thread is when you are having a critical issue with the update - at that point the devs will likely see it and work on a hotfix.

The DD's are hype and PR type things. They don't go into the daily grind or minutiae of coding and bugfixing, its a high level look at exciting stuff coming down the pipes. New content, big upgrades, etc. They're highlighting something they think is cool to generate enthusiasm for the project. 

 

The way to get a bug looked at and possibly fixed is to post it in the Technical Issues and Bug Reports section with any supporting information you have.  Posting it in general discussion threads, updates, or DDs  does not usually get attention from the devs, barring rare circumstances. They don't have time to trawl the forums. 

 

The bug with the ships has been reported in the past, I have run into it also. Patch notes in, I believe, 4.008 talked about a fix for them. If you are still having issues make a thread or post in the thread that is already going for it. The Tank issue I don't know about, I haven't played Tank Crew. But  you should make a bug report for that as well.

 

If you encounter a bug, post about it in the Technical Issues and Bug Reports section of the forum. There are sticky threads at the top of the forum where you can post bugs related to various different parts of the game. There may be other threads on the bug that other people have posted, and you can add your information there too. If none of those fit, you can make a specific thread to stand alone.

When you make a post or a thread, include all the system specs of your machine, including driver versions, windows version, hardware, etc. This is important because sometimes issues only crop up on certain configurations, if you don't provide this info the devs may not be able to see the issue. And sometimes, someone with the same configuration as you will come along and tell you how to fix it yourself with something simple - others have done this for me, and I have done it for others. 

Describe the bug, where you encountered it, and how to reproduce it (if you know how), and then post any evidence you have of the bug occurring. The devs usually ask for a Track file, a video, or both. If you don't have a track of it occurring, the next time you are playing record a track in case it occurs, or set up a situation to reproduce the bug and record that. 

 

If you don't provide enough info, they are unlikely to look at it. It is very difficult to evaluate bugs if you don't know how or when it happens, or if the issue is actually with someone's hardware or software configuration, which is common. The more specific you are, and the more information you provide, the more likely things are to get fixed.

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