Game version 4.008 discussion: P-47D-22, Sd.Kfz.184, IceRing, IL-2-41 in 4K and other

[IckyATLAS]

Love the razorback. A real brutal beast. The peardrop canopy version seems more "elegant" ?

[inexus]

...and how about the actual 'elephant' in the room - AI and pathfinding for TC? Any updates on this? 

[JG_deserteagle540]

Really great work with this update.

 

55. AI pilots aim at air and ground targets better and the rockets and projectiles won’t fall short of a ground target at the beginning of a burst;

 

It would be nice when the AI pilots make some deflection shots to air targets while dogfighting.

[Roland_HUNter]

1 hour ago, blitze said:

The 109's tail needs work for damage modelling.  Will be a large undertaking as the models have to be upgraded - anyway, plenty of places to aim for to bring 109's down. 

They already patched out the tail damage problem.

Updt 4.006:
62. All Bf-109 fighters except E7 can now lose the left or right side of the horizontal stabilizer when hit at its central part (Bf-109 E7 has a central part of the stabilizer which can be lost by itself);

Maybe they can remodell the tail, to lost the yaw holder above the horizontal stab when its getting a big damage, but why would they do? When at this moment the 109s can lose their yaws/elevators/horizontal stabilizers.
E-7 even can lose it as the old ways, because the E-7 had no strengthening on the Yaw/Rudder holder.

Germans started using tail strengthening from F-2, because on special resonance the F-1/2 could lose the holders or the whole tail.

 

You can check out, those strengthening "bars" are modelled in the game aswell for F-2.

Edited July 8, 2020 by -[HRAF]Roland_HUNter

[Motherbrain]

The new P-47 flight model feels better IMO. I haven't tested it all that much, but the roll is noticeably slower, but because it doesn't stall as quickly you can turn a little bit harder. 

And the 150 octane fuel with boost is definitely an improvement in climb and acceleration. 

 

I'll have to jump into a couple dogfights to be sure. 

[Dakpilot]

Thanks for all the hard work! 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[357th_KW]

The D-22 seems SHOCKINGLY fast - 375+mph at sea level, clean on Kuban autumn.  It's also pulling 73" of manifold pressure vs 70" on the D-28.

 

I setup another test to mirror this real life one: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org./p-47/p47-26167.html

50% fuel, 150 octane, wing racks, 50% on the intercooler and oil cooler, and auto rich mixture gave 365mph at 73" / 2700rpm.  Using 70" / 2700rpm yielded 357mph at these settings which  still seems pretty fast.

 

Gorgeous aircraft - this one is going to be a lot of fun.

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by KW_1979

[Rjel]

I was pleasantly surprised at how good the view looking forward in the D22 is. I expected the brutally constricted view as I remember it in the razorbacked Jug being from the original IL-2. The center bar support in the split windscreen is really not distracting in the least. I only flew it for an hour or so but it does seem more powerful now. Beautiful looking model too. I haven't flown the P-47 much in months. Time to relearn her.

 

Excellent looking patch so far. Thx for the extra efforts.

[Motherbrain]

The 150 octane fuel and updated stall characteristics is definitely an improvement. I was able to keep up with a Fw-190A-8 pretty easy now.

 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

@KW_1979 one difference with that test is that D-22 is a bit of a frankenstein using a Curtiss propeller instead of a Hamilton one, so it would be a bit slower. And to have more or less the same weight you should take 79% of fuel.

I did a speed comparison (with 100% fuel though, around 470lb heavier than the test, I didn't notice much difference against 79% fuel at least at sea level though) and these are the results I got overlaid on the chart (resolution is not the best but well):

Edited July 8, 2020 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard

[357th_KW]

10 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

@KW_1979 one difference with that test is that D-22 is a bit of a frankenstein using a Curtiss propeller instead of a Hamilton one, so it would be a bit slower. And to have more or less the same weight you should take 79% of fuel.

I did a speed comparison (with 100% fuel though, around 470lb heavier than the test, I didn't notice much difference against 79% fuel at least at sea level though) and these are the results I got overlaid on the chart (resolution is not the best but well):

 

Looks like your test results were pretty similar to mine.  Based on the prop change you mentioned that seems plausible.  I wonder if the 73" on the D-22 in game is intentional (a "Robert S Johnson setting").  I didn't have a chance to test how long it would run on that setting - maybe it grenades really quickly.  I'm sure there's a lot more speed available in game to those willing to fine tune their settings - I didn't even get around to trying manual boost control, pulling rpm, full emergency rich on the mixture or closing the oil cooler.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

3 minutes ago, KW_1979 said:

 

Looks like your test results were pretty similar to mine.  Based on the prop change you mentioned that seems plausible.  I wonder if the 73" on the D-22 in game is intentional (a "Robert S Johnson setting").  I didn't have a chance to test how long it would run on that setting - maybe it grenades really quickly.  I'm sure there's a lot more speed available in game to those willing to fine tune their settings - I didn't even get around to trying manual boost control, pulling rpm, full emergency rich on the mixture or closing the oil cooler.

Afaik it's a thing, at very low alts the system can overboost a bit, in the P-47D-28 this was already present you could run up to 67" instead of the standard 64". The time limit decreases to 3 minutes if you overboost the engine.

[Tigre91]

74. Selecting a random Entente aircraft in the duel on Arras map in QMB no longer produces a Bf 109F-4.

 

?

[CountZero]

So only 7 min of watter on D-22, insted 15min like on D-28 ? 

[357th_KW]

55 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Afaik it's a thing, at very low alts the system can overboost a bit, in the P-47D-28 this was already present you could run up to 67" instead of the standard 64". The time limit decreases to 3 minutes if you overboost the engine.

 

Interesting.  So presumably the D-28 has a different boost regulator or something and is thus limited to the specified 70" when using 150?

[gn728]

1 hour ago, Motherbrain said:

I was able to keep up with a Fw-190A-8 pretty easy now.

 

 

Hey - just wanted to say - that is a heckava screenshot.......?

[Boomerang]

Thank you ?

[No.23_Gaylion]

Great job on the clouds boys. Looks like you got it sorted out!

Edited July 9, 2020 by US93_Talbot

[-DED-Rapidus]

10 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

Alas, no fix for the check zone/proximity triggers when using the in-game dserver. Oh well, there is always hope for the future.

Thank you for reminding me (((need to do.

[PatrickAWlson]

4 hours ago, JG_deserteagle540 said:

Really great work with this update.

 

55. AI pilots aim at air and ground targets better and the rockets and projectiles won’t fall short of a ground target at the beginning of a burst;

 

It would be nice when the AI pilots make some deflection shots to air targets while dogfighting.

 

Within reason ... IMHO only on Ace and maybe veteran, sometimes.  Shooting down a plane was hard and most pilots could not pull it off.  If an Ace is 5 kills that means 1 every 2 months over a 1 year tour.  One every two months was a very good fighter pilot.  Average should be able to hit you if you are an easy shot.  Novice should miss almost everything. 

 

Opinion, of course. 

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, KW_1979 said:

 

Interesting.  So presumably the D-28 has a different boost regulator or something and is thus limited to the specified 70" when using 150?

Both D-22 and D-28 work the same, at sea level you can overboost 3" higher than the official spec. 67" or 73" depending on wether having 100 or 150 oct

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, CountZero said:

So only 7 min of watter on D-22, insted 15min like on D-28 ? 

Around that time yes, it only has a 15 gallon tank which only allows for around 7min WEP.

[Cleo9]

The unpacking of the update, on Steam, took an eternity (20 minutes or so), but I'm now ready to take at close look at what's new. !! Can't wait to fly the D-22 and the IceRing campaign !

[pilotpierre]

Great update again, well done all concerned.

[Charon]

The new clouds are fantastic. Thanks for revisiting this.

[JG_deserteagle540]

@PatrickAwlson

My opponents are always selected on "ace" skill in the QMB.  The "ace" AI pilots only shoot at you while flying head-on or at your six.

If you don't fire your guns, you will always miss.

 

[=KG76=flyus747]

Are the German bombers going to get separate crew models?

 

Meanwhile the fighters get....

Edited July 9, 2020 by =No.617=Avro_Lancaster

[Luger1969]

Dear team thanks so much for the update and the content thereof.

[blockheadgreen_]

Looking amazing! What are the modifications for the Razorback? Is the Malcolm hood available?

[sevenless]

10 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

The 150 octane fuel and updated stall characteristics is definitely an improvement. I was able to keep up with a Fw-190A-8 pretty easy now.

 

Are there specific availability dates for 150oct fuel in career mode for the P-47s or is it available right from the start? 

[Aurora_Stealth]

16 hours ago, MattS said:

Can somebody give me an opinion on the FM changes made to the P-47s?

 

 

 

@MattS

 

Well have only flown the D-22 Razorback since the update... its quite the change, and its not only superior to fly as an airframe (using earlier D-28 as previous benchmark) - its also tons of fun with the new silky control feel.

 

Using 150 octane with the Razorback makes it feel a much more competitive fighter. It's smooth, and slick but just a little slower to roll yet feels much more controllable and comfortable when maneuvering - there is lots and lots of buffeting when you pull too tight so you know when you are at the edge.

 

I personally feel a lot more confident engaging an enemy fighter with this, and you can pull and rein in the P-47 tight right up to the stall now due to its more forgiving characteristics, the greater energy reserves from that extra power allow you to push on much further. Sustaining a tight turn is still not a recommended tactic against most fighters as it still cannot rely on its turn rate alone but you can certainly do it now to a greater degree. The canopy design of the Razorback is not a huge hindrance although it is inferior for spotting - I guess it depends what you're used to.

 

Its not going to dogfight easily with lighter types like a G-14, but at the very least you feel you can catch them out far easier now and its no longer one sided. I would imagine the Razorback vs a G-6 would be an interesting fight although I'd probably still err on the latter if pushed. The fact I'm saying probably should tell you a lot in itself.

 

My greatest enjoyment so far with the Razorback is being able to use the snap roll into a diving turn just like you see of P-47's in the film footage as they break to attack - looks classic! when diving you really need to keep in mind the correct IAS at altitude otherwise if you don't you'll end up with a dead stick and a rapidly approaching horizon - compressibility.

 

So overall I reckon the P-47 is going to be a much more viable fighter bomber regarding online multiplayer. Its combination of greater power and speed with increased usability and control feel and that vast array of ground attack options makes it much more pilot friendly in my eyes. You'll still have to be quite cautious in how you engage but its definitely better and you aren't going to feel such a brick on the wall.

 

I was very disconcerted to watch the AI on QMB start actively boxing me in as I approached, they behave more fluidly now and are generally much more switched on which makes for quite entertaining QMB sessions now.

 

Really good stuff - 5 out of 7... would recommend.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Aurora_Stealth

[Livai]

Just now, Motherbrain said:

 

The P-47-22 Razorback looks short and thick stubby-like compared to the P-47-28. ?

[Motherbrain]

20 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

Are there specific availability dates for 150oct fuel in career mode for the P-47s or is it available right from the start? 

 

I'm not sure I'd have to check.

[norsetto]

19 hours ago, 40plus said:

Oooooo, does mean no more chasing us back to base?

 

56. AI fighter pilots won’t chase its target too far from their assigned route or area of operations;

 

Last two generated career mission I was chased back to base. In the second one I disengaged @ about 70 km from my home base. Perhaps "too far" is loosely defined?

[Trooper117]

 

This Yank kite is so big, I can go for a run around the cockpit if I get bored... 

 

[smink1701]

Can’t wait to take her up!

 Thanks team!

 

[Legioneod]

5 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Are there specific availability dates for 150oct fuel in career mode for the P-47s or is it available right from the start? 

150 was in use in the UK before D-Day iirc. Not 100% sure though, I just know P-47s from the UK were using high power of 64/65" starting around Feb/March and got rated to 70" around June/July iirc.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Legioneod

[DD_Arthur]

2 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

 

This Yank kite is so big, I can go for a run around the cockpit if I get bored... 

 

 

It's a beauty!  Looking forward to some talented skinners producing something for this paint scheme

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

Are there specific availability dates for 150oct fuel in career mode for the P-47s or is it available right from the start? 

 

6 hours ago, Motherbrain said:

 

I'm not sure I'd have to check.

 

It's not available, because Ninth Air Force didn't use 150-grade fuel on the Continent. So far as I know, they also didn't use it when they were based in England.

[longjap]

Great job on the cloud outline issue that has plagued the sim for a long time. First tests are very promising and in VR almost non existing, I think this deserves all the attention next to the new toys. Very happy!