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spitfirejoe

A kind REQUEST adressed to the Developer Team

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Hello dear IL-2 Great Battles Team.

 

As a fan of your products I would like to ask if it would be possible to make even more switches and systems work and operational for us sim pilots in EXPERT mode?

I like your sim very much and there are so many things which can be switched and altered in the cockpit. But some more realism would be nice to have.

I would like to give some examples which I would like to switch by myself. 

 

1. Magnetos…...I would like to be able to switch all the Engine magnetos by myself ( so I could do an engine runup and check the magnetos before Take Off )

2. Fuel pump switches..….I would like to be able to switch on and off fuel pumps, for the P-51, I would like to switch the Fuel Booster pump by myself.

3. P-51 Hydraulic Pressure Release Handle, I want it to work and mapped to a key to operate.

4. of course Fuel System ( switch through all tanks by myself ), be able to operate fuel shut off valves and ALL parts of the fuel system…………...I know that this is planned and I am very happy for that.

5. Battery switch and  Generator switch.....I want to be able to switch them on and off

6. Oil Dilution switch

7. Engine Primer switch

8.Engine starter switch 

 

In Expert and Custom Mode I want to be able to do the whole engine start and engine cut off by myself, because I can operate all switches, Levers and Buttons.

 

In EXPERT mode and CUSTOM mode I would like to have the Option to choose that some random System failures would be possible, for instance Gear Problems ( Landing Gear can not be retracted or Extended due to some Hydraulic Failure or any other problems ), same for Flaps. I am NOT Talking sbout System failures because someone shot at your plane, but just normal random System failures and abnormals.

 

I know that would be a lot of work, but it would be sooo nice and great if I could have even more own control over my warbird in IL-2.

 

Thank you very much.

 

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There will be many here disagreeing with you. And all the details regarding start up aint gonna happened. 
I asked the same questions years ago. “People” don’t wanna do that they say. 
Regarded fuel managing it might be some kind of solution. It is mentioned and many want it

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Posted (edited)

Oh really….."people don´t want it"? I would like to know if that is true. Would be great if those things could be chosen, people who don´t want more detailed Cockpit work can choose "Standard" Mode and People who like more work can do Expert Mode or choose in Custom.

Edited by spitfirejoe
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Just press unmapped keys on the keyboard in sync with the automatic engine start/stop animation. 

 

For random system failures: pour juice over the keys mapped for gear/flaps and any other system you want to fail at random. To increase failure rate add more juice, to reduce it clean keyboard.

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The fuel tank management option is possibly coming with the promised drop tanks. 

Other than that, I don't think that you are going to see it unless the devs have kept it quiet these past seven or eight years.

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Each to their own...

 

I would think that this is the primary issue:

- All aircraft would have to be rebuilt

- Not all aircraft had the same procedures and systems

- The team has very high standards for historical accuracy

 

So it is a lot of labour and expense... which is potentially competing from things like additional aircraft, refinements to AI systems, weather improvements etc.

 

It would also have to be weighed in terms of how much immersion it would add to have these switches operated by the player (rather than handled automatically) compared to other possible improvements to immersion, such as having a 3d model for the player's body in the cockpit...

 

Btw. Have you tried the IES mod for Il-2 1946? It has such switches... which can't be turned off and has made the use of the QMB very confusing for me (one always has to figure out the procedures for the aircraft, get the keystrokes in the right order, and then restart the engine in a glide before doing the QMB flight)! It has largely kept me from using it.

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42 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

Oh really….."people don´t want it"? I would like to know if that is true. Would be great if those things could be chosen, people who don´t want more detailed Cockpit work can choose "Standard" Mode and People who like more work can do Expert Mode or choose in Custom.

Make a search old boy. There has been many very heated fights over this. I have been in the middle of it, back then, I was young and naive and very handsome I might add and big cahonas. 
let it go, it shall not pass

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Jason has said that this is not going down that road... no clickable pits either, so it is what it is, you either accept that or move on I guess...

For me, if I want to study things and click things I have another sim for that.

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10 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Jason has said that this is not going down that road... no clickable pits either, so it is what it is, you either accept that or move on I guess...

For me, if I want to study things and click things I have another sim for that.

 

Yes this.

 

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I was not asking for clickable Cockpits and never will, this is not the discussion about it. I know that in DCS there are all switches working, that is also not the discussion. I don´t want to use DCS for WW2 warbirds.

 

It was a question and request, not more. If it will not happen, then it will not happen. There is also no reason to post stupid comments here, like 1 already did.

I am ok that this thread gets closed or deleted.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Trooper117 said:

Jason has said that this is not going down that road... no clickable pits either, so it is what it is, you either accept that or move on I guess...

For me, if I want to study things and click things I have another sim for that.

I come to that conclusion myself. But I feel  some if not many do not think that push start button is fast enough. They go full throttle and crash into closest aa asap

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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There is a suggestions thread. I believe they look at it.

 

Anything optional is great, I say! I see your point. I might enjoy a bit of that in Flying Circus too. But realistically, not many people will use it.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

There is also no reason to post stupid comments here, like 1 already did

Guess you mean me. But I simply advised you to let that go. This community have been through it multiple times. Producer do not want it and he is backed by majority here. Light up a little

And technically this is not a suggestion. In order to be that it need to be posted in suggestion section

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

1. Magnetos…...I would like to be able to switch all the Engine magnetos by myself ( so I could do an engine runup and check the magnetos before Take Off )

2. Fuel pump switches..….I would like to be able to switch on and off fuel pumps, for the P-51, I would like to switch the Fuel Booster pump by myself.

 

4. of course Fuel System ( switch through all tanks by myself ), be able to operate fuel shut off valves and ALL parts of the fuel system…………...I know that this is planned and I am very happy for that.

5. Battery switch and  Generator switch.....I want to be able to switch them on and off

6. Oil Dilution switch

7. Engine Primer switch

8.Engine starter switch 

I totally agree with pretty much with all of these. As a real world pilot myself, I really wouldn’t want to always assign buttons to Mag. 1 off/on, Mag.2 off/on, and if the airplane has multiple engines, more buttons to assign to the Magnetos of each engine. It’s more easier to just click them on and off than to assign buttons to.

For the Fuel selector valve and Fuel pumps, same statement: would rather have to option to click what Fuel tank(s) I want to use and Fuel pump on/off for each engine than to assign button(s) to it.
 

I would like it if at some point we could, at the very least, have it where some systems you operate via buttons, while others you (can if you want) click them to operate.

 

Just one thing to point out here is that when the devs add 4K skins to aircraft, they don’t add these skins to all aircraft in just one or two updates, they take their time and add them to a few planes periodically. Therefore, if the devs decide to do what the OP has proposed, they can do it to some planes, and in the planes that do get this ability, it would be a step by step process, not in one go to all planes.

 

Again, it’s just an option, if you want to use it that’s fine, if you don’t want to use it, that’s also fine. 
 

Thank you for reading what I have to say.

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Guess you mean me. But I simply advised you to let that go. This community have been through it multiple times. Producer do not want it and he is backed by majority here. Light up a little

And technically this is not a suggestion. In order to be that it need to be posted in suggestion section

 

NO, I did NOT mean you. I ment the other german guy who made silly jokes about it. It´s just childish.

 

I have no problem with a normal discussion. But just saying "no will not happen" is a bit too short and easy. 

 

I suggested that advanced realism Setting should me made available as an OPTION in Expert and Custom Mode, everyone should choose. The ones who prefer to hit "E" on the keys to start or stop an engine can do that, others who want to do the whole sequence by their own should have the oppurtunity to do so. What´s so wrong about that option?

19 minutes ago, Novice-Flyer said:

I totally agree with pretty much with all of these. As a real world pilot myself, I really wouldn’t want to always assign buttons to Mag. 1 off/on, Mag.2 off/on, and if the airplane has multiple engines, more buttons to assign to the Magnetos of each engine. It’s more easier to just click them on and off than to assign buttons to.

For the Fuel selector valve and Fuel pumps, same statement: would rather have to option to click what Fuel tank(s) I want to use and Fuel pump on/off for each engine than to assign button(s) to it.
 

I would like it if at some point we could, at the very least, have it where some systems you operate via buttons, while others you (can if you want) click them to operate.

 

Just one thing to point out here is that when the devs add 4K skins to aircraft, they don’t add these skins to all aircraft in just one or two updates, they take their time and add them to a few planes periodically. Therefore, if the devs decide to do what the OP has proposed, they can do it to some planes, and in the planes that do get this ability, it would be a step by step process, not in one go to all planes.

 

Again, it’s just an option, if you want to use it that’s fine, if you don’t want to use it, that’s also fine. 
 

Thank you for reading what I have to say.

 

thank you very much for your great comments. THAT is a kind of discussion I wanted and not just " no it´s never going to happen " or " I am playing a game only, if I want to fly a real plane, then I would ". If YOU want to fly a WW2 warbird in real life, then you need to be a millionare or working in the Chino Museum "Planes Of Fame".

 

I am also a professional Pilot in real life, flying Long Haul for an Airline. I flew prop planes a lot in the past, did fly also an AT-6 TEXAN myself. I have a huge passion for WW2 Aircraft for my whole life already. Asking for more realism as an OPTION....what´s so wrong about it? 

 

And NO, it must not come with the next updates, can be a longer process, that´s fine.

Edited by spitfirejoe
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What's wrong? In a world of infinite resources, nothing at all. In the real world though, we have to ask whether a small development team with lots of other more pressing priorities should be adding features that only a small minority seem to consider to be significant.

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1 minute ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

I suggested that advanced realism Setting should me made available as an OPTION in Expert and Custom Mode, everyone shouöd choose who prefers to hit "E" on the keys to start or stop an engine, others who wants to do the whole sequence by their own should have the oppurtunity to do so. What´s so wrong about that option?


There's nothing wrong with it per se...given less personnel and financial restrictions, there's no reason not to have two ways of doing things.

But to make a clickable cockpit is an extra layer of interaction to create that the game does not already have, entailing a lot of work making it happen for a large stable of already-existing aircraft. And that is an extra thing that has to be done for all future aircraft. Any benefits of the system have to be weighed against the cost, now and in the future, of making it happen.

On the forum lots of ideas get thrown around that are controversial, and  people say "Well, if you don't like it, the devs can just make it optional!" I'm sure the developers would love to create the ultimate flight sim that could be all things to all people, but they have to make choices on what to do given time and resources available to them, so they focus on their strengths - rather than a 'study sim' modeling the manual operation of all flight systems, you have a focus on feel of flight, combat, and historical context. It works well for WWI and WWII birds where there is much less in the aircraft that needs to be operated, unlike, for example, complex late 20th century fighter jets with sophisticated sensor suites and weapons systems. 

Personally I don't care much for 'click pits' just because I'd rather bind stuff to my HOTAS and keyboard and call it a day, rather than try and hunt around with a mouse, which tends to take me out of the moment.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

What's wrong? In a world of infinite resources, nothing at all. In the real world though, we have to ask whether a small development team with lots of other more pressing priorities should be adding features that only a small minority seem to consider to be significant.

 

Yes, might be true. I know it´s a small developers team, with lots of work and projects and I Always support them with what they are doing.

I just wanted to know if other users would be interested in what I came along with. And of course, the Devs and the producer must decide what´s most important to work on.

I just came along with a wish, nothing more.

 

And once more….I did NOT ask for clickable Cockpits! Please don´t start that kind of discussion, I am not a friend of clickable cockpits

Edited by spitfirejoe

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6 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

What's wrong? In a world of infinite resources, nothing at all. In the real world though, we have to ask whether a small development team with lots of other more pressing priorities should be adding features that only a small minority seem to consider to be significant.

Agree with Andy. In that ‘other sim’ - where you can click away to your hearts content - one of the first things I do is map the easy engine start key👍

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Understand some of us have been here a long time, since this all began really - and have seen these same discussions on the same thing a few times.

In fact even I started a thread on it once asking if we could just get option to assign basic engine start procedure to buttons on the HOTAS.

It ended the same way..

 

I have no issue with the topic and in fact I too would like to see it, just we know 1CGS stance on it. 

Perhaps one day they might change their mind, who knows. I would not hope for it though.

 

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1 hour ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello dear IL-2 Great Battles Team.

 

As a fan of your products I would like to ask if it would be possible to make even more switches and systems work and operational for us sim pilots in EXPERT mode?

I like your sim very much and there are so many things which can be switched and altered in the cockpit. But some more realism would be nice to have.

I would like to give some examples which I would like to switch by myself. 

 

1. Magnetos…...I would like to be able to switch all the Engine magnetos by myself ( so I could do an engine runup and check the magnetos before Take Off )

2. Fuel pump switches..….I would like to be able to switch on and off fuel pumps, for the P-51, I would like to switch the Fuel Booster pump by myself.

3. P-51 Hydraulic Pressure Release Handle, I want it to work and mapped to a key to operate.

4. of course Fuel System ( switch through all tanks by myself ), be able to operate fuel shut off valves and ALL parts of the fuel system…………...I know that this is planned and I am very happy for that.

5. Battery switch and  Generator switch.....I want to be able to switch them on and off

6. Oil Dilution switch

7. Engine Primer switch

8.Engine starter switch 

 

In Expert and Custom Mode I want to be able to do the whole engine start and engine cut off by myself, because I can operate all switches, Levers and Buttons.

 

In EXPERT mode and CUSTOM mode I would like to have the Option to choose that some random System failures would be possible, for instance Gear Problems ( Landing Gear can not be retracted or Extended due to some Hydraulic Failure or any other problems ), same for Flaps. I am NOT Talking sbout System failures because someone shot at your plane, but just normal random System failures and abnormals.

 

I know that would be a lot of work, but it would be sooo nice and great if I could have even more own control over my warbird in IL-2.

 

Thank you very much.

 

 

I think the greatest difficulty in what you are asking (from a development standpoint) would mean that -to be realistic- each of these individual elements (handles, switches) would have to be modelled inside the simulation as separate interlinked subsystems.  In other words, the simulation would have to consider the outcome of an improperly executed startup sequence, and/or the effect of operating some switch or lever mid-flight.  Regarding the startup sequence, some combinations will simply refuse to start the engine, while others would start the engine in a sub-optimal  or even a possibly dangerous state.   An oversimplification (that would be very easy to code) would be refusing to accept carrying out a step deviating from the correct startup sequence,  but that would not be very different from what we have today, the difference being that we would have to press more keys in sequence to achieve what we now have pressing 'E').   

 

I agree that having such a degree of control would probably be greeted happily by many users like you , and who knows, maybe the developers are considering such a thing in the future (asking never hurts, especially if it is asked in such a polite way as you do) - I for one would like to see the limited development resources allocated to other areas of the simulation, such as AI or better multi-core parallelization.   

 

Cheers!

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The only one of these commands which seems likely will be fuel management along with drop tanks (maybe?)

But IL-2 will never have clickable cockpits and I don’t imagine most players want that many keyboard commands which would just be used once to start the plane. Controls which are actually used during flight and combat are more useful and interesting. 
It is already possible to have gear and flap damage and failures. 

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14 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

What's wrong? In a world of infinite resources, nothing at all. In the real world though, we have to ask whether a small development team with lots of other more pressing priorities should be adding features that only a small minority seem to consider to be significant.

 

Agree 100%.

 

The two things I would really like to see mappings for are master arm switch, and the complex fuel mgmt including droptanks (which seems to be part of the roadmap).

 

I definitely fall under the category of "not interested in flipping switches and taking 10min to start up the engine manually".

 

I DO like the Me262 startup sequence though.

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3 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

I definitely fall under the category of "not interested in flipping switches and taking 10min to start up the engine manually".

 

I DO like the Me262 startup sequence though.

 

+1

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I just would like to have the ability to put my guns on "safe" in the Spit.

;)

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I think the "Master arm" switch can be both useful and feasible as we have already some master switch for bombs (Which almost nobody uses). It would be cool to add!

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Posted (edited)

Could this be accomplished as an Arduino project?  Build a fiberboard facsimile of the cockpit layout, put in the appropriate switches, knobs and levers in the right locations and wire them into a breadboard, and that links to the Arduino where you program the correct sequence of inputs to trigger an output. If one part of the sequence is skipped, the output can never be true until all inputs are disabled again.  Once all conditions are properly met in order, the output activates a servo that rotates an armature located near the keyboard that has a finger attachment, so when the armature swings down the finger presses the "e" key.   Once that part is complete, the system goes into a wait state looking for the proper sequence of switch inputs to turn the engine off,  and when complete it activates the armature again.

 

 

Edited by =[TIA]=Stoopy
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10 minutes ago, dburne said:

I just would like to have the ability to put my guns on "safe" in the Spit.

;)

All pilots are already safe from my guns!

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1 minute ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

Could this be accomplished as an Arduino project? 

 

I'm sure it can be, but I'd prefer if it was part of the game.

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In my opinion the OP have the same ambition as I. 
But getting beaten down multiple times I work for these small things. Like getting a more believable bomb aim interphase. 
OP mentioned fuel management. And that is pretty unified agreement on that part. 
We do want drop tanks and fuel management. It is acknowledged by Jason. 
I totally agree on wanting more complex startup procedures As a option. But I given up onit. 

20 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

Agree 100%.

 

The two things I would really like to see mappings for are master arm switch, and the complex fuel mgmt including droptanks (which seems to be part of the roadmap).

 

I definitely fall under the category of "not interested in flipping switches and taking 10min to start up the engine manually".

 

I DO like the Me262 startup sequence though.

He ask a fair question on this as a player option. We all know the answer and we all know majority do not want it. But it is still a legit request

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3 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

He ask a fair question on this as a player option. We all know the answer and we all know majority do not want it. But it is still a legit request

?

 

I didn't say it wasn't, I agreed with what AndyJWest said.

OP was asking for people's opinions and I gave mine.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Jade_Monkey said:

?

 

I didn't say it wasn't, I agreed with what AndyJWest said.

OP was asking for people's opinions and I gave mine.

All in all I do agree with him and you too. 
there are better and more things more important to improve
but you have to agree his second point about fuel managing Has a relevance. We all want droptank

Edited by 216th_LuseKofte

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1 minute ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

All in all I do agree with him and you too. 
there are better and more things more important to improve
but you have to agree his second point about fuel managing Has a relevance. We all want droptank

 

Please read what I wrote.

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35 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

 

 

And once more….I did NOT ask for clickable Cockpits! Please don´t start that kind of discussion, I am not a friend of clickable cockpits

A little easier to program, for sure. But then we all have five or six more things to keybind, depending on the plane. With a clickable pit you can remember how the controls look and read the labels, but with just keybinds, you have to remember if you bound generators to "ALT-G" or "SHIFT-G", for example. It is a bit less intuitive.

If you have a lot of extra switches and stuff on your HOTAS you could navigate it by feel. Otherwise we are hunting around the keyboard. What I like about my current setup is I don't have to have much of anything bound to the keyboard to fly a plane, which really helps with immersion.

Jason has indicated in his "briefing room" thread that fuel system improvements are coming, including drop tanks, but he has also commented elsewhere on the forum and told people not to expect anything crazy or world-changing. I'm sure we will see some stuff but whether the system will be full complexity or somewhat automated it is not clear - I think it will likely be simplified in terms of pilot input, but more accurately simulated for damage and flight modeling perhaps.

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Posted (edited)

In games like DCS, IL-2 Cliffs of Dover, X-Plane, P3D and and Microsoft Flight simulator... it’s just an option to click things, no one’s forcing you to do it. You can both push buttons and click things, or you can just push buttons, or you can just click things. And in what the OP has suggested, you can either click the Magnetos, Fuel pumps/valves, or you can just assign buttons to them and not click them. Pretty simple.


Same with like Tank Crew, BON, and Ice Ring Campaign, You don’t have to buy it/them, IT’S just an Option to buy. If you like it get it, if you don’t like, then don’t buy. Again, Pretty simple.

 

For the record, I don’t think that the OP is requesting this to be added in 4.007, nor 4.008, nor in 4.009. I think the OP is requesting that this be implemented at some point in the future, like after BON is released.


 

6 hours ago, AndyJWest said:

we have to ask whether a small development team with lots of other more pressing priorities should be adding features that only a small minority seem to consider to be significant.

Maybe on this forum it’s a minority, but I think overall (including in elsewhere places) it’s 50/50; half want it, half don’t want it.
 

Salute.

Edited by Novice-Flyer
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14 hours ago, Izel said:

 

I think the greatest difficulty in what you are asking (from a development standpoint) would mean that -to be realistic- each of these individual elements (handles, switches) would have to be modelled inside the simulation as separate interlinked subsystems.  In other words, the simulation would have to consider the outcome of an improperly executed startup sequence, and/or the effect of operating some switch or lever mid-flight.  Regarding the startup sequence, some combinations will simply refuse to start the engine, while others would start the engine in a sub-optimal  or even a possibly dangerous state.   An oversimplification (that would be very easy to code) would be refusing to accept carrying out a step deviating from the correct startup sequence,  but that would not be very different from what we have today, the difference being that we would have to press more keys in sequence to achieve what we now have pressing 'E').   

 

I agree that having such a degree of control would probably be greeted happily by many users like you , and who knows, maybe the developers are considering such a thing in the future (asking never hurts, especially if it is asked in such a polite way as you do) - I for one would like to see the limited development resources allocated to other areas of the simulation, such as AI or better multi-core parallelization.   

 

Cheers!

 

Totally agree on this.

 

@spitfirejoe The simulation of the underlying systems "behind" the buttons would be necessary to have a useful feature. It wasn't clear from the opening post, maybe you can add this?

 

Maybe we are lucky and the drop tank/fuel management improvements will allow some operations even at engine start/shutdown?

 

Did you have a look at CLOD? It requires most of these operations and even random system failures can be implemented using a mission scripts.

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Posted (edited)

The Systems "behind" the buttons...…...of course I would wish that the Fuel Booster Pump switch in a P-51 for example would switch that Booster pump on or off. If we would have working magneto switches………….of course I wish the RPM would drop like in real if you switch from "Both" magentos to a single one. Other than that would not make any sense.

 

BUT, I did not say it is all a must have, I said it would be my personal wish to have more options like this.

 

IF the operable fuel System Management will come ( sooner or later ), like Jason stated already, I hope that we have full authority of the system like in real. Switching between ALL tanks available in the aircraft and switching fuel pumps on and off, opening and closing fuel cock levers.

 

No, I did not play CLOD, because I started with PC gaming only 2 years ago ( doing ONLY Sim Racing and IL-2 )…..and I don´t use sim software which is NOT working in VR, my PC usage is for VR exclusively. For other casual gaming I have a PS4, which is totally fine for me.

Edited by spitfirejoe

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If you find repetitive discussion tedious, you can vote by ignoring the thread altogether. 

 

 

I like the idea of a start up procedure. We already have one aircraft that sort of does this; the Me 262. I am not sure why the Me 262 was singled out for special treatment though. 

 

I like the random system failure idea. 

 

This is a combat simulation, so advocating more realism shouldn't be controversial. Its a choice after all. 

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