check zone/proximity triggers bug

[No_85_Gramps]

I know it's not a high priority but can we maybe look forward to this being fixed?

This from an Aug 2019 post:

Checkzones and Proximity MCUs do not work with the "In Game" Dogfight Server software. These will only work online with the "In Game" CoOP Mission software or through an "Independent Dserver" Period. Has been this way since the Dogfight and CoOP software were introduced to BOX several updates ago and duly reported as a bug.

 

Thank you!

[-DED-Rapidus]

That's right, check zones should only work in a co-op. in dogfight, players are not a fixed entity like in a co-op.

[No_85_Gramps]

What about the proximity trigger? The complex trigger is fine but eats up a lot of resources. Also, from what I understand, if I run a deathmatch on a dedicated server those will work. Could you explain the reasoning behind this? Not trying to be difficult, just want a better understanding of this.

[-DED-Rapidus]

The complex trigger  was introduced as a replacement for check zones in dogfight. Once again, check zones in dogfight missions should not work.

[JimTM]

I'm not sure if Gramps was referring to the issue logged in this bug, which had an example of a check zone working with a player plane in a dogfight mission run from a DServer, but the same scenario would not work if the mission was run from the in-game server. I'm not sure if the behaviour has changed since the bug was logged.

[No_85_Gramps]

Thanks Jim! That was the one I was referring to.

Rapidus: Thank you for the reply. So the proximity trigger is also not available in dogfight?

 

For an example: AI convoy moving along a road, when it is attacked I want to do a panic stop. Using a proximity trigger linked to the lead vehicle, the trigger would fire based on the location of the lead vehicle. If you use the complex trigger it would fire based on the location of the trigger, not the location of the lead vehicle.

Edited June 1, 2020 by No_85_Gramps

[JimTM]

I tested allied plane detection (including a player) with check zone and proximity triggers in MP dogfight missions and confirmed that the player is detected in a mission started on DServer but is not detected on a mission started on the in-game server. An AI Pe-2 is detected in both cases if it is allowed to enter the detection zone first.

 

Here are the checkzone and proximity test missions:

JimTM - Test MP Check Zone and Proximity Triggers.zip

 

Unzip the missions into your game folder \data\Multiplayer\Dogfight

 

In each mission you can spawn in a P-39 and make a left turn to enter the detection zone. When you spawn in, an AI Pe-2 outside the zone is sent to a waypoint within the detection zone. You have time to enter the zone before the Pe-2 and trigger detection. If an allied plane is detected, you will see a "Checkzone triggered" or "Proximity triggered" message on the top right.

 

Both missions have a 25km detection zone, marked with icon translators. There is also an ndb with a 40km spotter radius so you can monitor all planes on the map. The proximity trigger is object lined to the ndb and coalition is set to Allies.

Edited June 2, 2020 by JimTM

[No_85_Gramps]

Thanks Jim! Will take a look at these later on. Would be nice if they added/fixed this so they would work for player detection in the in-game dserver missions.

[WWDriftwood]

Good info, recently did my own tests on this and concur. 

 

Check zones for players worked in single mission and dserver but did not detect players on in-game server.

Up until now I would not use check zones to detect players on dogfight dserver mission only used complex triggers for this. 

 

Here's what I'm not clear on and is the "looming question" "When you say a check zone "should not work on a dserver" even though we've tested it and can see that it does work."

 

"Should we not use check zones on dserver dogfight mission to detect players because at some point an update will change this to not detect players?"

 

I would hate to presume it's okay to use check zones for players on a dogfight mission only to find out it's a bug to be fixed and breaks my mission when fixed.

 

Thanks,

DW

[WWFawlty]

9 minutes ago, WWDriftwood said:

"Should we not use check zones on dserver dogfight mission to detect players because at some point an update will change this to not detect players?"

 

That would not be good, 90% of the mission I built that we flew last night had checkzones on a D server running in dogfight mode.

Hate to have to go back and change all those to complex triggers for future use.

Edited June 1, 2020 by WWFawlty

[coconut]

Complex triggers are said to be expensive and should be avoided in large numbers. It’s too late for me to look it up now in the dev diaries and game update threads, but I’m pretty sure @-DED-Rapidus‘s information is out of date. The plane and vehicle checkboxes were added the the check zone MCU to make them work for player planes in dogfight missions. That they do not work when hosting from the game is a inconsistency that I can only see as a bug. 

[WWDriftwood]

Thanks Coconut, I try to use the complex trigger as conservatively, was excited about the check zone being available to activate players on the dogfight maps but still gun shy about players activating it.

 

It would nice to get a rock solid confirmation that this is how check zones work on a dserver dogfight map, and are supposed to work, and should continue to work. You know; to save me a big box of tissue for tears over broken missions down the road followed by sending me off to the funny farm for observation.   

[No_85_Gramps]

5 hours ago, JimTM said:

Here are the checkzone and proximity test missions:

 

I tried running both of these mission but they just lock up the game. In task manager, while the mission is loading, about 3/4 through, it shows IL2 not responding, then a few seconds later it starts responding but once it gets to the map it hangs the game. Tried resaving the missions but that did not help.

[JimTM]

7 minutes ago, No_85_Gramps said:

I tried running both of these mission but they just lock up the game. In task manager, while the mission is loading, about 3/4 through, it shows IL2 not responding, then a few seconds later it starts responding but once it gets to the map it hangs the game. Tried resaving the missions but that did not help.

 

Hmmm.

 

What is the directory pointed to in the .list file of your resaved mission?

Edited June 1, 2020 by JimTM

[No_85_Gramps]

OK, got them to work. Might have been too deep in the mission tree? Anyway, I tried them both and the P39 is not triggering either one, but the AI PE-2 does. I saw Coconut's comment, maybe we just have to wait and see if one of the devs chimes in. Thank you again for all your help!

[-DED-Rapidus]

3 hours ago, coconut said:

Complex triggers are said to be expensive and should be avoided in large numbers. It’s too late for me to look it up now in the dev diaries and game update threads, but I’m pretty sure @-DED-Rapidus‘s information is out of date. The plane and vehicle checkboxes were added the the check zone MCU to make them work for player planes in dogfight missions. That they do not work when hosting from the game is a inconsistency that I can only see as a bug. 

Once again, the player in dogfight is not an entity, so the check zone doesn't work there(the player just doesn't have a linked ID in the mission logic), in co-op, each player's plane is an entity with its own ID. Something like that ?‍♂️.

15 hours ago, No_85_Gramps said:

So the proximity trigger is also not available in dogfight?

I don't know the answer to this question, but I will clarify it later.

[coconut]

I know the player’s plane is not an entity in dogfight missions. It does not matter, because check zones do not need to be object-linked. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by coconut

[LLv34_Temuri]

5 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

Once again, the player in dogfight is not an entity

Just to be clear, do you mean that the player who is hosting from client is not an entity, just like when hosted on dserver, there is the dserver account "player" hosting the mission?

[coconut]

For reference:

Quote

48. Check Zone and Proximity triggers now work in multiplayer.

Quote

for CheckZone it's not needed to connect to an object, so it will trigger on any object entering/leaving the area.

 

[-DED-Rapidus]

Well...We will solve this problem together ) should or should not the checkzone with proximity work in air combat. I will ask this question to the programmers and answer it to you, or @Han will answer it himself.

[Han]

Airplane or tank which have been spawned by airfield in Dogfight game mode (all player vehicles in Dogfight) are not taken in count by CheckZone and Proximity triggers. It was allways by this way - from 2008 when Check Zone was done in Rise of Flight.

 

But there was developed a side-way for such cases - Complex Trigger. It affects performance of DServer much more than check zone, but it allows to check presense of player's vehicle in Dogfight.

[coconut]

@Han I’m pretty sure this was changed in version 1.103, see the update notes I linked above. If not, what is the role of the check boxes under plane coalition and vehicle coalition? I don’t remember those check boxes were there before 1.103. 

[Han]

Oh, checkbox, ok will see.

[JimTM]

6 hours ago, Han said:

Airplane or tank which have been spawned by airfield in Dogfight game mode (all player vehicles in Dogfight) are not taken in count by CheckZone and Proximity triggers. It was allways by this way - from 2008 when Check Zone was done in Rise of Flight.

 

But there was developed a side-way for such cases - Complex Trigger. It affects performance of DServer much more than check zone, but it allows to check presense of player's vehicle in Dogfight.

 

Please note that in my tests yesterday, a spawned player in a dogfight mission run on the DServer is detected by the check zone and proximity triggers. I don't know if this applies to all players that spawn on a DServer mission; I only tested this by myself on the server.

 

UPDATE: The check zone and proximity triggers were set to detect allied planes and the player is allied.

Edited June 2, 2020 by JimTM

[No_85_Gramps]

Why would you not want the check zone/proximity trigger to detect player planes in MP ? If it works in missions on a DServer, should it not work with missions on the in-gamer server? Those two items use less resources then the complex trigger, and provide more flexibility in mission building.

[-DED-Rapidus]

We are taking a time out, and we will look at this issue again.

[WWFawlty]

14 hours ago, JimTM said:

Please note that in my tests yesterday, a spawned player in a dogfight mission run on the DServer is detected by the check zone and proximity triggers. I don't know if this applies to all players that spawn on a DServer mission; I only tested this by myself on the server

Yes it does Jim, ran it with 14 people the other night and everything worked as expected using checkzones/d-server/dogfight