What are you looking forward to the most in Battle of Normandy?

[Uufflakke]

Q: What I am looking forward to the most in Battle of Normandy?

 

A: That Normandy looks like Normandy.

[cardboard_killer]

57 minutes ago, -IRRE-Axurit said:

The realization of the Norman hedgerow will also be of great importance, because scenarios of tank battles can be very interesting.

 

Ah, the old, "I can't see nothing"

BLAM!

"Where'd my pancreas go?" battles.

[Bremspropeller]

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow - don't be alarmed now,

it's just a spring clean for the may queen...

Edited June 5, 2020 by Bremspropeller

[Yogiflight]

1 hour ago, -IRRE-Axurit said:

For a heavy ship, there can be 7 AI.
AA Front right
AA Front left
AA Right back
AA Left back
Front axle guns
Rear cannons

Yes there can. And then you will have the great pleasure to have two or three ships firing, because otherwise the game engine can't handle it. The goal was to make it more simple to get more ships into the game.

[RedKestrel]

10 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow - don't be alarmed now,

it's just a spring clean for the may queen...

*self indulgent guitar solo intensifies*

[Cybermat47]

9 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

*self indulgent guitar solo intensifies*

You’ll get more than a solo.

 

 

[IRRE_Axurit]

Il y a 2 heures, Yogiflight a déclaré:

Oui, c'est possible. Et puis vous aurez le grand plaisir de faire tirer deux ou trois navires, sinon le moteur du jeu ne pourra pas être géré. L'objectif était de rendre plus simple l'intégration de plus de vaisseaux dans le jeu.

 

I know, but I cannot imagine a boat like the Uss Nevada not to shoot all its periphery on at least 4 targets at the same time as it moves tactically.

The ships in this opus should not be static objects, but real floating fortresses.

 

The chanel is a capricious sea with difficult weather which can raise large waves which can influence the course of the boats and their behavior. The weather and sea state is something that I would like to improve for BoN.

 

And will be an improvement which they will be able to use for the rest in Italy, Sicily, Malta or in the Mediterranean Sea in general.

[sevenless]

4 hours ago, [Pb]Cybermat47 said:

You’ll get more than a solo.

 

Tell you what. This one is still my favorite:

 

 

[5aBrigada]

On 6/5/2020 at 1:52 PM, Uufflakke said:

Q: What I am looking forward to the most in Battle of Normandy?

 

A: That Normandy looks like Normandy.

+1 At least for some famous spot. Mt Saint Michel (what a pleasure it will be to fly around !), Pointe du Hoc, Etretat and its needle and arch, Ouistreham and its casino, Deauville and Trouville too ! and so on...

PS : And the area behind Omaha Beach (that I know well for some holidays when I was a child )

Edited June 6, 2020 by 5aBrigada

[Halon]

I'm looking forward to seeing the fleet and seeing how it's implemented, I'm also hoping to be able to support the landings although I imagine that seeing the landings would be a technological stretch. I'd also like to fly in the Battle of Caen and see the devastation.

[DN308]

You will never see that.

 I guess there won’t have any fleet nor destruction (or it would be permanent since the beginning)

[IRRE_Axurit]

They had planned 2 version of the map, before and after dday.
I would have liked a 3rd, before the Atlantic Wall, for the period of the start of the war.

[Avimimus]

4 hours ago, DN308 said:

You will never see that.

 I guess there won’t have any fleet nor destruction (or it would be permanent since the beginning)

 

Indeed. It would be tremendously beyond current technology. Anyone want to try calculating what the rendering load would be with 20 poly (yes 20 poly, not 20,000 poly) ships would be? Assuming they are unmoving, have no physics, or weapons?

[sevenless]

5 minutes ago, Avimimus said:

 

Indeed. It would be tremendously beyond current technology. Anyone want to try calculating what the rendering load would be with 20 poly (yes 20 poly, not 20,000 poly) ships would be? Assuming they are unmoving, have no physics, or weapons?

 

I don´t think D-Day itself will be the big challenge. They could somehow work around that. But, if they want to do the whole Normandy scenario correctly the coastline between SWORD and UTAH would need huge seaborne traffic everyday after D-Day. Just think about the two mulberries at Arromanches and Omaha. Omaha mulberry was destroyed in the storm 19-22 june, but nevertheless there was a constant flow of ships bringing in all kinds of logistics and soldiers on all beaches at every day after D-Day. That constant traffic will be a big challenge for the game engine methinks.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

I would love the Channel Dash! 

 

[Avimimus]

42 minutes ago, =gRiJ=Roman- said:

I would love the Channel Dash! 

 

I already looked into it... something like 180 anti-aircraft guns engaged... the work-around of having single fire directors (proposed in this thread) might still work  a bit... but I doubt it is possible without a lot of optimisation.

 

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

I don´t think D-Day itself will be the big challenge. They could somehow work around that. But, if they want to do the whole Normandy scenario correctly the coastline between SWORD and UTAH would need huge seaborne traffic everyday after D-Day. Just think about the two mulberries at Arromanches and Omaha. Omaha mulberry was destroyed in the storm 19-22 june, but nevertheless there was a constant flow of ships bringing in all kinds of logistics and soldiers on all beaches at every day after D-Day. That constant traffic will be a big challenge for the game engine methinks.

 

Maybe this could work:

- Keep Axis aircraft operating at night (and spawn in ships as needed using the reduced visibility).

- Use static/physic/AI-less ships during the day (when allied aircraft are operating).

[Pikestance]

If the map is before and after, are we assuming too much. Its possible that air operations will involved missions prior to the invasion and then take up after the invasion is completed. 

 

There are limits to how much you can model. If you are familiar with CA's Total War series you know all too well the problem with that. The Game developers of Grand Tactician resorted to using sprites  to increase how many men they can depict on the battle field. 

 

Anyway, I supposed I am in the minority in believing that D-Day will be part of the package. 

[danielprates]

D-Day was so grand in scale, that any humanly possible modeling of ships, troops etc would feel way, waaay insuficient. So if I was in charge I would make the timeframe start, say, a week aftee the landings.

 

I mean, they already know in advance that colossal efforts (like the Rheinland map) may still be the object of more complaint than praise, so why take the chance.

[Gambit21]

D-Day is not plausible - the end.

I can tell you this as a mission/campaign builder. Not possible. It was simply too big and anything even close in a mission will basically be a still image.

 

Who cares.

This map is about pre-D-Day and post D-Day operations.

[unlikely_spider]

Weird. The other sim has it. Both in a P-51 campaign as well as a 109 campaign. I've played both of them and they were pretty great. I don't think anyone expects it to be a one-to-one recreation - you don't actually have to do thousands of landing craft in order to make it feel like D-Day, or to make it atmospheric/memorable.

 

In the P-51 campaign, you fly over the landings to support operations further inland. You start to see all the ships and smoke and as you approach from England the wingmen comment via the comms how huge it feels. I remember that even though it was months ago that I played it. In the 109 campaign, you have to go strafe the beeches, and it is literally miles and miles of troops on the beeches and boats that you can fly over and shoot.

 

For it to not be included, ever, on a map that contains that very area seems like a cop out. There's a saying in my industry - don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

Edit - and maybe it's also in one of the Spit campaigns but I haven't done any of those yet.

Edited June 7, 2020 by unlikely_spider

[MarderIV]

Sounds more like a "since it's not possible to do it right, we'd rather not do it at all" kind of situation. I can understand that if that was the case - if the prevailing expectation is a depiction that is to scale.

 

Still, question is if folks would rather have it gone from the experience as well or would be comfortable with token representation instead. I don't know if this was ever raised with the community or what it's thoughts are on the matter are; I only ever read negatives with complete and total finality.

 

I don't recall a single game or sim ever coming close to a 1:1 representation of the operations over the beaches either way, except maybe for tabletop or computer wargames with counters or runners. It's almost always bits and pieces, or heavily reduced. Hell, when Medal of Honor did Utah beach way back when I was convinced; despite the now spartan depiction and I think it still holds.

 

So I'm curious about what's actually doable in the sim and what compromises can be made to the depiction of this most important invasion; and what folks here may be comfortable with. 

 

[Legioneod]

Personally I'd be fine with just a handful of ships representing the invasion no point in having unrealistic expectations.

 

The one thing that will disappoint me is if the map feels empty like Bodenplatte.  I really hope they have small villages and nice little farms instead of focusing on the major cities/towns only. Also a good representation of the indutry in the area is really improtant imo, especially things like railyards or barges on the canals, etc.

 

Doesn't have to be 100% accurate of course but as long as they get a good mix of things it'll be good. Bodenplatte just felt too empty with no vilages/farms in the countyside and no railyards.

[cardboard_killer]

7 hours ago, danielprates said:

So if I was in charge I would make the timeframe start, say, a week aftee the landings.

 

Hundreds of ships stayed just off the beaches for months after the invasion, weather permitting. D-Day was just the height of shipping. Hard to see that simulated within the IL-2 engine.

Edited June 7, 2020 by cardboard_killer

[Pikestance]

It isn't the engine. It is the ability of machines to render the graphics. 

[Do-Little_r4pt0r_SPQR]

This may be a bit strange, but outside of the planes obviously, I am looking forward to seeing if they have some handmade models for some of the more famous castles in Southern England/Northern France, and according to their Normandy map area image,  Stonehenge will be within flyable range, so Id like to buzz that too.

Anyone know? Fingers are crossed.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Do-Little_r4pt0r_SPQR

[Cybermat47]

17 minutes ago, Do-Little_r4pt0r_SPQR said:

This may be a bit strange, but outside of the planes obviously, I am looking forward to seeing if they have some handmade models for some of the more famous castles in Southern England/Northern France, and according to their Normandy map area image,  Stonehenge will be within flyable range, so Id like to buzz that too.

Anyone know? Fingers are crossed.

Well, Dover Castle is in RoF and CloD, and Stonehenge is in CloD, so I’d say there’s a pretty good chance.

[sevenless]

7 hours ago, unlikely_spider said:

Weird. The other sim has it. Both in a P-51 campaign as well as a 109 campaign. I've played both of them and they were pretty great. I don't think anyone expects it to be a one-to-one recreation - you don't actually have to do thousands of landing craft in order to make it feel like D-Day, or to make it atmospheric/memorable.

 

Yep they have a challenge here. How they handle it, might define their future.

[danielprates]

2 hours ago, cardboard_killer said:

 

Hundreds of ships stayed just off the beaches for months after the invasion, weather permitting. D-Day was just the height of shipping. Hard to see that simulated within the IL-2 engine.

 

I know that. It is what I was saying, isn't it? It is too much traffic to simulate. Or to simulate well, at least. I can already see hundreds of posts complaining about things like "if feels empty". 

 

My point was, if the period covered starts just after D-Day, you will fly above empty beaches but they won't be the target area - at best, the vincinity of the target area. This should keep complaints out.

 

Edit 1: we're to blame for that, as a community. I am still amazed at the amount of fire the Rheinland map got over it not being perfect in every quiosque. How reasonable we behave about the product, comes back to haunt us when the next thing comes.

 

Edit 2. Or, ooorrrr, I am wrong and they plan to go "full first 15 mins of saving private Ryan" mode and put us in the thick of action right from day one. Doesn't seem likely though, given what we know about the game engine.

Edited June 7, 2020 by danielprates

[Lusekofte]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

Who cares.

I actually do, but knew already the day it was announced that this was the case. 
Jason has not made the boundaries a secret , we all know what we bought. 
I am however looking forward to your P 47 and new Havoc campaign

[CanadaOne]

9 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

D-Day is not plausible - the end.

I can tell you this as a mission/campaign builder. Not possible. It was simply too big and anything even close in a mission will basically be a still image.

 

Who cares.

This map is about pre-D-Day and post D-Day operations.

 

That all seems a little... harsh.

 

There is no reason parts of the invasion could not be modeled. This sim, in all it's modules I think, scales things down to make partial representations possible. I can't see why D-Day would be an exception.

 

As for "who cares", well, maybe thousands of people who play the game do.

[Lusekofte]

1 minute ago, CanadaOne said:

 

That all seems a little... harsh.

 

There is no reason parts of the invasion could not be modeled. This sim, in all it's modules I think, scales things down to make partial representations possible. I can't see why D-Day would be an exception.

 

As for "who cares", well, maybe thousands of people who play the game do.

I wonder if we had static ships and vehicles and just aa if it could be possible. 
Like old IL 2. They did not take more recourses than a building did. 
It won’t be a invasion scenario with two ships and 3 small boats

[SYN_Vander]

23 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I wonder if we had static ships and vehicles and just aa if it could be possible. 
Like old IL 2. They did not take more recourses than a building did. 
It won’t be a invasion scenario with two ships and 3 small boats

 

Agreed. I'm missing the static ships we had in Rise of Flight (and all the static aircraft and vehicles for Flying Circus, but that's another topic).

 

 

Edited June 7, 2020 by SYN_Vander

[sevenless]

14 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I wonder if we had static ships and vehicles and just aa if it could be possible. 
Like old IL 2. They did not take more recourses than a building did. 
It won’t be a invasion scenario with two ships and 3 small boats

 

Cliffs of Dover can do it, Tobruk will be able to do it, Rise of Flight was able to do it. This game engine can do it also, question is if they want to do it.

[cardboard_killer]

28 minutes ago, danielprates said:

My point was, if the period covered starts just after D-Day, you will fly above empty beaches but they won't be the target area - at best, the vincinity of the target area.

 

On June 30th from 5km up over the beachhead, you'd see hundreds of ships spread out from the east coast of the Cotentin to the southern coast of England, weather permitting. You would have to in Pas-de-Calais not to see the amount of shipping near the beachhead. I know we are both saying the same thing, but why worry about the shipping not being there on 6-June when it's not going to be there on 30-June either?

[CanadaOne]

27 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

I wonder if we had static ships and vehicles and just aa if it could be possible. 
Like old IL 2. They did not take more recourses than a building did. 
It won’t be a invasion scenario with two ships and 3 small boats

 

Absolutely it's possible. There is no reason something entertaining can't be managed.

[Lusekofte]

10 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

Absolutely it's possible. There is no reason something entertaining can't be managed.

Yes, this race toward next build probably prevent further development in this department. It start to be a major disability.  
what if next build was to make this happend. A payware upgrade. 
This game obviously give developers restrictions, but we all can see its great potential

Edited June 7, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[CanadaOne]

2 minutes ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Yes, this race toward next build probably prevent further development in this department. It start to be a major disability.  
what if next build was to make this happend. A payware upgrade

 

There are lots of things I'm willing to pay for. We already pay for modules and campaigns and collector planes.

 

I'd pay for a better QMB, I'd pay for a better ME, I'd pay for a custom map. Hell, I dropped about $250 on flightsim stuff in the last month or so. (90% of it elsewhere unfortunately.)

 

Build cool stuff and I'll pay for it. Take my money! $$$

[sevenless]

34 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

 

There are lots of things I'm willing to pay for. We already pay for modules and campaigns and collector planes.

 

I'd pay for a better QMB, I'd pay for a better ME, I'd pay for a custom map. Hell, I dropped about $250 on flightsim stuff in the last month or so. (90% of it elsewhere unfortunately.)

 

Build cool stuff and I'll pay for it. Take my money! $$$

 

I´m with you. If it enhances my singleplayer experience, my wallet is ready.

[BlitzPig_EL]

Gents, you can throw money at the sim all day long, and it still won't be able to deliver what you want.  An automotive example for you.  You could take an early 50's Porsche 356A, and I don't care how much you spent, it won't be able to turn in lap times with a current 911 GT2 RS.  Never happen.

 

The kind of capabilities you/we are asking for absolutely requires an all new game engine, there is simply no way around this.  The current sim is really good at what it was designed for, small unit tactical air ops.  Accept it for what it is, and hope that the people at 1C will loosen the purse strings and let Jason have the finances to build an even better, next generation sim.

[MattS]

I was initially most excited about the razorback P-47, but the more I have been getting to know the Tempest the more I am excited about the Typhoon instead (sad 1776 noises).

 

The Tempest just fits like a glove...if the Typhoon is similar (as I imagine it must be?) I will like it a lot.