What are you looking forward to the most in Battle of Normandy?

[unreasonable]

On 5/31/2020 at 10:27 PM, [=PzG=]-FlyinPinkPanther said:

A common theme among pilots is that it isn't the machine that makes the pilot, but the skill of the pilot. 

 

 

As Mandy Rice-Davies nearly said: "They would say that wouldn't they".

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

Right now Im mostly looking for a release date.

[Reggie_Mental]

17 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

You say that about all planes and conclude

 

Ever considered that you might not doing this right?

No. I can fly the Spitfire IX, Tempest and the 109s and all of the Russian fighters to conclusive victories, often  against higher tier aircraft. 

 

The only aircraft I  don't get on with at all are the P39, P40, P47 and find the P51 and Fw190A and D not to my taste. Although I can accept they are well designed aircraft. Anything else, I haven't  spent enough time on to form an opinion.

[Pikestance]

3 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

As Mandy Rice-Davies nearly said: "They would say that wouldn't they".

 

Exactly,, in the military, you're told to do a job and you get on with it. 

[Lusekofte]

11 minutes ago, Reggie_Mental said:

the P51 and

Is a highly overrated plane, it is expected to do everything best. When in fact it actually could do absolute everything adequately.  And some with high performance. 
I am rubbish at online fur balls myself I just find your choice of word not quite right and judgement of the planes the same reffering to what you said about 

yak 9 and here. 
the fact they do not suit you do not make them dogshit and Renault’s
 

 

[JaMz]

3 hours ago, Talon_ said:

The Spit XIV is coming in Normandy that performs like a K-4+DC, however it fights 109G6s and Fw190As. It's an utter monster.

 

Agree with you there..

 

It's going to ruin a lot of LW pilots day that's for sure..

 

As I said before, the strengths and advantages the K4 have will be singinfically deminshed once that planeset arrives..

 

Ben interesting to see how we take to the Mossie, will be a brute to handle (interesting to see.if it's better or worse than the P38) but it's speed and weaponary will be insane.

[Cybermat47]

17 hours ago, DN308 said:

Maybe my bad, but I still have Russians flying my A-20B over the Netherlands in an US plane

Did you define the aircraft as American in the FMB?

[=621=Samikatz]

11 minutes ago, 9./JG52_JaMz said:

Ben interesting to see how we take to the Mossie, will be a brute to handle (interesting to see.if it's better or worse than the P38) but it's speed and weaponary will be insane.

 

From British testing the Mosquito is said to be less agile than a Fw-190 and not able to get onto the tail of a well flown one. Expect a faster, better armed Bf-110, not a P-38.

 

By fast, I do mean fast though. A mid-44 spec Mosquito VI could get access to 25lbs boost and will be quite quick, nearly 600km/h at 7000ft quick. About 50km/h faster than the Bf-110G at the same height according to the specs page in game. In single engined fighters, I imagine if you don't catch one at close range, you will have a very long chase ahead of you to run one down. Interested to see how it might compare to the 410!

[zdog0331]

4 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

The K-4 with DC engine is one of the fastest planes in the game at sea level and any altitude above that until you reach 26,000ft. It also outclimbs anything except the Spitfire IX on +25lbs boost.

 

The Tempest, K-4+DC and Mustang all do about 389mph at sea level in ideal configuration. The D9 is only a few mph slower, then the P-47, G-14, A-8, P-38 and Spit IX are all down in the 350mph ballpark. The 262 is obviously 100mph+ faster.

 

Blue definitely have better planes in BoBp, and have *much much* worse planes in Normandy.

 

The Spit XIV is coming in Normandy that performs like a K-4+DC, however it fights 109G6s and Fw190As. It's an utter monster.

I have to disagree about the german planes being better.  They are fast flying planes that excel at energy fighting tactics.  Where the british planes generally are medium speed planes that excel at turning and climbing.  The p-51 is a jack of all trades but isn't the best in any 1 category which makes it very versitile once you take the time to learn it and it is not an easy plane to fly.  They all have their advantages and disadvantages.  The various planes are better than the others when used to their strengths.  Don't out energy fight a 109 in a spitfire and don't turn fight a spitfire in a 109.  If you fly the planes correctly to their advantage they are about even.  Id actually go as far as to say that the sptifre mk IX and tempist are better than the german aircraft in BOBP, but that really depends on how you use it.  

 

I see way too many people telling me how terrible a plane is compared to the others who then proceed to attack the enemy plane from a position that puts them at a disadvantage and complain about loosing.  Or people will fail to disengaged when the advantage is lost and complain that their plane isn't good enough despite the fact that they are out of energy and trying to climb up to a 109 from a lower attitude at a lower speed when they should have turned away a bit ago to regain the advantage.  If you use your aircraft properly then often times i find that the allies have better planes.  Obviously not all planes, but i'd go as far as to say that the allies have some of the best planes in the game.  Just stop flying allied planes like you are flying a german planes.  They have completely different optimization and should be flown differently.

Edited June 2, 2020 by zdog0331

[Talon_]

5 minutes ago, zdog0331 said:

sptifre mk IX and tempist are better than the german aircraft in BOBP

 

The Spitfire IX is 20mph slower than the slowest German aircraft in BOBP. The Tempest is very good but only available in limited numbers.

[zdog0331]

1 minute ago, Talon_ said:

 

The Spitfire IX is 20mph slower than the slowest German aircraft in BOBP. The Tempest is very good but only available in limited numbers.

yea but its a better turner.  Speed isn't everything if you use your plane right

Edited June 2, 2020 by zdog0331

[Talon_]

10 minutes ago, zdog0331 said:

yea but its a better turner.  Speed isn't everything if you use your plane right

 

In reality, speed is the only metric that really matters in fighter combat (up to a point*). The faster fighter can fully dictate the engagement. Turnrate is great but it won't save your life or ensure you live to fight another day - having the highest top speed enables you to participate in the energy economy until you no longer want to, and then you just leave. Turning is a transaction, and actually a horizontal turn is the least efficient of any.

 

*This is evidenced by the evolution of fighter design throughout the 21st century that has converged at a sweet spot of weapons load and supersonic ability.

[zdog0331]

12 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

In reality, speed is the only metric that really matters in fighter combat (up to a point*). The faster fighter can fully dictate the engagement. Turnrate is great but it won't save your life or ensure you live to fight another day - having the highest top speed enables you to participate in the energy economy until you no longer want to, and then you just leave. Turning is a transaction, and actually a horizontal turn is the least efficient of any.

 

*This is evidenced by the evolution of fighter design throughout the 21st century that has converged at a sweet spot of weapons load and supersonic ability.

Not when the speed advantage is that small.  yes 100km+  speed advantage such as what you get with a jet will give you the advantage and is absolutely better, but when you are at less than 50km/hr speed advantage the turning advantage can take over.  I have had hundreds of hours in the spitfire mk9 hundreds in the p-51 hundreds in the fw-190 d9 and hundreds in the bf-109 k4.  These are planes i was flying in dcs far before i started flying them in this game and no its not a big enough difference.  If i am positioned right i am never at a disatvantage in those planes.  And if flown right you can maintain the advantage if you fly your plane correctly.  even against a good foe.  

 

I have never in those aircraft though it was my plane's fault for me loosing a fight.  90% of the time its because i attacked from a bad position.  If you learn the planes and fly them right, they will beat the german planes so long as you use your advantage which is different from the german aircraft.  Sa,me goes for the germans as well.  Its all about capitalizing your advantage over the other planes and they have different advantages.

Edited June 2, 2020 by zdog0331

[RedKestrel]

10 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

The Spitfire IX is 20mph slower than the slowest German aircraft in BOBP. The Tempest is very good but only available in limited numbers.

Also at high speeds the limiting factor for maneuverability is the pilot's ability to withstand g-force, not the airframe. If you turn as hard as the spitfire will let you at high speeds you black out. 109s black out at the same point you do, so the turning ability is often moot.
 

[Talon_]

3 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Also at high speeds the limiting factor for maneuverability is the pilot's ability to withstand g-force, not the airframe. If you turn as hard as the spitfire will let you at high speeds you black out. 109s black out at the same point you do, so the turning ability is often moot.
 

 

If you're in a turning fight in a late-war fighter plane, you generally messed up. There's no good reason to enter one in most circumstances and they increase the likelihood of giving your opponent the advantage.

[zdog0331]

5 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

Also at high speeds the limiting factor for maneuverability is the pilot's ability to withstand g-force, not the airframe. If you turn as hard as the spitfire will let you at high speeds you black out. 109s black out at the same point you do, so the turning ability is often moot.
 

You generally aren't trying to fight at max speed in the spitfire.  You are generally trying to get a 109 to reduce their speed and once they are at a lower speed then you have him.  Usually this is about attacking an unsuspecting plane rather than going for someone who is in route above you.  You want to attack someone who is below you and preocupied with an objective or something else.  Which is what is happening 90% of the time.  In a furrball the spitfire is amaizing as most aircraft are bleeding speed in those engagements.  Its only moot if you are maintaining those high speeds.  Which is rarely how a dogfight goes.  usually they pretty quickly drop when dog-fighting and for a spitfire you can climb to loose that speed and have the turning advantage. also forcing the 109 to give up its speed advantage.

[busdriver]

21 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

In reality, speed is the only metric that really matters in fighter combat (up to a point*). The faster fighter can fully dictate the engagement. Turnrate is great but it won't save your life or ensure you live to fight another day - having the highest top speed enables you to participate in the energy economy until you no longer want to, and then you just leave. Turning is a transaction, and actually a horizontal turn is the least efficient of any.

 

*This is evidenced by the evolution of fighter design throughout the 21st century that has converged at a sweet spot of weapons load and supersonic ability.

 

Said no RL fighter pilot ever. Certainly not F-105 guys dealing with MiG-17s or even F-16 pilots fighting MiG-23s.

 

Carry on...

[I./JG52_Woutwocampe]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

 

The Spitfire IX is 20mph slower than the slowest German aircraft in BOBP. The Tempest is very good but only available in limited numbers.

 

True the Tempest came in limited numbers but not in the Bondenplatte german career though since you meet tempests in every single mission you fly....I must have destroyed more tempests in my Dora career than they actually built in real life, haha.

[Talon_]

58 minutes ago, busdriver said:

 

Said no RL fighter pilot ever. Certainly not F-105 guys dealing with MiG-17s or even F-16 pilots fighting MiG-23s.

 

Carry on...

 

Well naturally fighting with more than just guns changes the equation because gun range is no longer the place you have to leave, but this game is about WW2. Surprising that I have to specify I'm not talking about avoiding missiles on this forum.

[RedKestrel]

26 minutes ago, zdog0331 said:

 You are generally trying to get a 109 to reduce their speed and once they are at a lower speed then you have him.  

 

I mean yes, generally speaking if you can get your enemy to cooperate with your attack plan, you win. To be fair, most of the time all you have to do online is waggle your rudder a bit and a 109 driver will come turn fight you with (blood) lust on his mind.

But all he has to do is say "Nope, not today" and unlike RL fighter pilots who might be constrained by rules of engagement, mission parameters or even just giving a crap about the lives of their buddies or friendly , there is nothing stopping a 1GCCFP from just buggering off into the sunset if he doesn't feel like turn-fighting you. And you, in the Spitfire, do not have that same option. Once engaged, you basically cannot flee. Because also unlike real life fighter pilots, online fighter pilots will pursue you halfway across the map to get a kill as long they feel they are gaining on you. Even a 20mph speed advantage is enough for these guys, since they will stick with you until they are dead or you are.

This is actually quite useful for Allied attackers; get in, drop your bombs, and then when the AA lights you up every 109 in a 10 km radius will dive on you and chase you down. Then your friends can will have a field day on undefended targets. if you get lucky, they will collide or crash in their zeal trying to kill you. This has happened to me twice in just the last month.

[PatrickAWlson]

3 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Is a highly overrated plane, it is expected to do everything best. When in fact it actually could do absolute everything adequately.  And some with high performance. 
I am rubbish at online fur balls myself I just find your choice of word not quite right and judgement of the planes the same reffering to what you said about 

yak 9 and here. 
the fact they do not suit you do not make them dogshit and Renault’s
 

 

 

The P51 was better than adequate.  With its speed and acceleration it was an above average performer.  The best in a furball? No.  But it should be a good plane even in a tactical online environment.

 

We all know what really made it good: that it was a good fighter that could take on anything the enemy had to offer, gave the pilot a good chance of coming home, and do all of that while flying from England to Berlin and back.

[busdriver]

38 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

Well naturally fighting with more than just guns changes the equation because gun range is no longer the place you have to leave, but this game is about WW2. Surprising that I have to specify I'm not talking about avoiding missiles on this forum.

 

My mistake, you put an asterisk noting this principal carried forward into 21st Century airplanes. I was NOT talking about using missiles. I was actually thinking about guns only fighting using two distinct pairs as examples. My bad for not making that clear.

 

There is a well worn US fighter pilot expression, "speed is life." I'll take an airspeed advantage any time I can get one...but I'll take training over speed all day every day. IMO your absolute assertion "speed is the only metric that matters" ignores a host of factors. If not, then Robert Shaw's book was a waste of time for you. And just so there is no confusion, my critique of your remark is without animus or snark. I simply think you've simplified the problem to a greater degree than the principal of Occam's Razor. 

 

 

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

The 163 goes really fast for a really short time - we know how that airframe fared.

 

BTW:

Hoping for a 25lbs/ 81.5inch Mustang III.

[Lusekofte]

20 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

The P51 was better than adequate.  With its speed and acceleration it was an above average performer.  The best in a furball? No.  But it should be a good plane even in a tactical online environment.

 

We all know what really made it good: that it was a good fighter that could take on anything the enemy had to offer, gave the pilot a good chance of coming home, and do all of that while flying from England to Berlin and back.

Of course you are right. You said it as I meant it. 
Problem with the P 51 is peoples expectation of it. None where better at what it did. Warbird pilots of today. They all say the same for fun P 40 any day. They all have their advantages. P 51 was just good at everything 

Edited June 2, 2020 by 216th_LuseKofte

[=621=Samikatz]

29 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

BTW:

Hoping for a 25lbs/ 81.5inch Mustang III.

 

An anti-diver spec Mustang III in mid-44 would be astonishingly good. Should be faster than a DC K-4 at sea level and pre-dates it by a good half a year at least, I really hope we get it

[Vortice]

Oh goody, a "my plane is better than your plane" dispute. Please carry on.

[henry1491]

4 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

In reality, speed is the only metric that really matters in fighter combat...

 

It's certainly important to me when adopting the 'Brave Sir Robin' tactic. ?

 

[CanadaOne]

53 minutes ago, Vortice said:

Oh goody, a "my plane is better than your plane" dispute. Please carry on.

 

My plane is an IL2-41 and it's better than all of your planes.

[zdog0331]

4 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

 

I mean yes, generally speaking if you can get your enemy to cooperate with your attack plan, you win. To be fair, most of the time all you have to do online is waggle your rudder a bit and a 109 driver will come turn fight you with (blood) lust on his mind.

But all he has to do is say "Nope, not today" and unlike RL fighter pilots who might be constrained by rules of engagement, mission parameters or even just giving a crap about the lives of their buddies or friendly , there is nothing stopping a 1GCCFP from just buggering off into the sunset if he doesn't feel like turn-fighting you. And you, in the Spitfire, do not have that same option. Once engaged, you basically cannot flee. Because also unlike real life fighter pilots, online fighter pilots will pursue you halfway across the map to get a kill as long they feel they are gaining on you. Even a 20mph speed advantage is enough for these guys, since they will stick with you until they are dead or you are.

This is actually quite useful for Allied attackers; get in, drop your bombs, and then when the AA lights you up every 109 in a 10 km radius will dive on you and chase you down. Then your friends can will have a field day on undefended targets. if you get lucky, they will collide or crash in their zeal trying to kill you. This has happened to me twice in just the last month.

My the main thing though is if they are running away, then you have succeeded in moving them away from the battle (even if it is temporary).  And that 20km/h speed advantage is an advantage, but its not enough of one to outclass the turning capabilities of the spitfire.  The sim pilot blood lust is actually an advantage for a spitfire as your goal is to get them to lazer focus on you as if they try to manuver with you they will loose because they will have absolved themselves of that speed advantage in the first turn.  The tempest is even better since it has turning and power which make it overall one of the best aircraft in the game with ammo being its limitation. 

 

Obviouly a bf-109 or Fw-190 could just sit at a high altitude and dive on me and keep flying and decide not to engage with me.  And in that kind of fight I can hold my own since the maneuverability can allow me to dodge their fire though but a spitfire would be at a disadvantage at the mercy of that plane until it decides to engage.  Or it would have to make a head on shot which can work if you are good at the head to head game, but its risky for both sides which may allow you to engage with the 109 and in that event the 109 is toast.

 

Most german pilots online tend to be out for blood as you have said and disengaging is their advantage when fighting the spitfire and very few pilots use it because they are after kills.  Also the spitfire tends to be a great furball plane so flying group vs group the spitfires can get an upper hand that way more than with the 109s though as i have said they are pretty even. The outcome of a battle with these planes relies mostly on who can utilize their plane the best rather than a this plane is better than this plane sort of mindset.  Personally i love all planes from bobp with the acception of the p-47 and the fw-190 a8.

Edited June 2, 2020 by zdog0331

[unreasonable]

I am most looking forwards to getting some of the British/Commonwealth ground units that should have been in BoBP.   I found it astonishing that in a game titled after the GAF raid on allied airfields, the AA guns (Bofors 40mm) that actually defended said airfields were not included.  Instead we got an M1A1 90mm that is only truly useful against medium-high flying bombers which the GAF hardly used in this time period, or V1s.   There may be some rational explanation for this choice, but I do not recall seeing it. 

 

Then Typhoon and Mosquito of course.  

[Lusekofte]

15 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

Then Typhoon and Mosquito of course.  

The wait hurts. 
but being able to climb up to altitude in the arado and levelbomb with minimum of risk is also a bit of fun. But I guess they will be restricted online

[BlitzPig_EL]

3 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Hoping for a 25lbs/ 81.5inch Mustang III.

 

Oh my yes!  Bring it, bring it now.

[dburne]

7 hours ago, Talon_ said:

 

The Spitfire IX is 20mph slower than the slowest German aircraft in BOBP. The Tempest is very good but only available in limited numbers.

 

In level flight...

7 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

Also at high speeds the limiting factor for maneuverability is the pilot's ability to withstand g-force, not the airframe. If you turn as hard as the spitfire will let you at high speeds you black out. 109s black out at the same point you do, so the turning ability is often moot.
 

 

Yeah been there done that on more than one occasion.

[Feathered_IV]

5 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Hoping for a 25lbs/ 81.5inch Mustang III.

My god   That is tiny! ?

[Legioneod]

6 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

The 163 goes really fast for a really short time - we know how that airframe fared.

 

BTW:

Hoping for a 25lbs/ 81.5inch Mustang III.

Would be nice, I'm just hoping they finally give the P-47 70", it would certainly help with the later war scenarios.

[RedKestrel]

42 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

My god   That is tiny! ?

It's not the size of your spitfire, its how you handle the Cannons

Edited June 3, 2020 by RedKestrel

[CUJO_1970]

Always some aircraft is going to show up and finally give the Allies the edge they've been waiting for. If only they get this fuel or that boost pressure things are going to turn out differently this time just you wait and see.

 

Still kind of waiting, ever since the days of Oleg ?

 

The Spitfire XIV is going to be great, but it will not turn into the Allied Me 262. Same with the Mustang, Mosquito etc. These planes are gonna be fun and shoot down planes and get shot down themselves while the same Allied-Onlies currently getting minengeshossed in the P51D and Tempest will be back on the forums wondering aloud in large boxes of text (and videos!) why their favorite plane isn't saving them.

 

I hope the P-47 and the XIV and the P-51 get every imaginable boost pressure right up front as soon as possible, or the whining about it will be incessant. Ever may all pre-demands be met as efficiently as they were for Bodenplatte. Fighting for life in a G6 is much to be preferred to reading through all that bullshit every day.

 

Speaking of demands...I wonder how that big /AS supercharger for the G6 is coming along? Hopefully better than the one for the G14 in Bodenplatte. (RIP)

 

[Talisman]

The Mosquito will have to utilise stealth tactics and use high altitude capability to survive I think.  Although I believe the version we are getting means we have to fly low to actually attack the targets.  Since we don't have radar and fighters directed by ground control, I think tactics will need to be a little different than in real life.  I think that the real life situation and tactics might not translate as well as we might like in-game.  However, I am very much looking forward to cross channel missions and trying to survive in the Mosquito.  The Mosquito should provide an easy victory for LW fighters in game if spotted and in range of guns.  At least that is how it was in IL-2 46.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

Edited June 3, 2020 by 56RAF_Talisman

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, 56RAF_Talisman said:

The Mosquito will have to utilise stealth tactics and use high altitude capability to survive I think.  Although I believe the version we are getting means we have to fly low to actually attack the targets.  Since we don't have radar and fighters directed by ground control, I think tactics will need to be a little different than in real life.  I think that the real life situation and tactics might not translate as well as we might like in-game.  However, I am very much looking forward to cross channel missions and trying to survive in the Mosquito.  The Mosquito should provide an easy victory for LW fighters in game if spotted and in range of guns.  At least that is how it was in IL-2 46.

 

Happy landings,

 

56RAF_Talisman

 

We certainly will have some fun with the Mk.VI. While perhaps not the best source it appears that it was able to hold its own against fighters:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#cite_ref-200

 

The FB Mk VI proved capable of holding its own against fighter aircraft, in addition to strike/bombing roles. For example, on 15 January 1945 Mosquito FB Mk VIs of 143 Squadron were engaged by 30 Focke-Wulf Fw 190s from Jagdgeschwader 5: the Mosquitos sank an armed trawler and two merchant ships, but five Mosquitos were lost (two reportedly to flak),[177] while shooting down five Fw 190s.[178]

 

 

 

[56RAF_Stickz]

1 hour ago, sevenless said:

The FB Mk VI proved capable of holding its own against fighter aircraft, in addition to strike/bombing roles. For example, on 15 January 1945 Mosquito FB Mk VIs of 143 Squadron were engaged by 30 Focke-Wulf Fw 190s from Jagdgeschwader 5: the Mosquitos sank an armed trawler and two merchant ships, but five Mosquitos were lost (two reportedly to flak),[177] while shooting down five Fw 190s.[178]

 

all from a separate little war only 9 fw190A from jg5 9staffel were scrambled, 12 minutes from the mosquito attack targets. They lost 3, 2 A8s and 1 A3. Last one apparently by the tse tse mossie, but even 57mm didnt evaporate it. 5 mossies went down, 143 lost 3 of them, 235 one and 333 Norwegian lost one. Banff strike wing refer to it as black monday. The atrocious weather  probably was more responsible for less losses than the mossie capabilities in a dogfight, although to a point they probably did come out evens if discounting losses to flak and that most were damaged in some form or another.

Only flakship Seehund was sunk. Claus Rickmer (the single target merchant ship) examined after the war was hit by 30rockets but made watertight, made Bergan, sailed until scrapped in 1964. A second flakship lightly damaged.

It did get them a second P51 squadron for escorts.

I think the game makes it far too easy to sink ships. When you read this book and strike wings how much damage even mostly small merchantmen (<5000tonnes) attacked in Norway took and survived. But thats an argument for a different time.

Edited June 3, 2020 by 56RAF_Stickz
cos I cannt read without a mag glass