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1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

Flugpark - questions

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Posted (edited)

Hi all,

 

a few questions to the hosts but maybe also for map designers, squadrons and active pilots.

 

Why is the scoring system uneven when it comes to 2-seaters? While Flying Central you get 15 p. for downing a Bristol but only 10 p. for downing a Halberstadt flying for Entente?

 

Is this intentional?

 

Now to ground objective points granted for attacks which WERE NOT YET activated. There is the Sizz-mission I believe were we arrived at the point that no one bothers to complete the recons anymore, the first mission objectives, as described in the briefing. Instead every veteran goes straight for the ground target basing on the good knowledge of the map and simply knows what to attack AND still gets points accounted for. For me it is gaming the map - was this intentional?

 

Can the points be granted ONLY FOR objectives that are in fact activated by the in-map icons?

 

Sahaj

 

Edited by 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk
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8 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Hi all,

 

a few questions to the hosts but maybe also for map designers, squadrons and active pilots.

 

Why is the scoring system uneven when it comes to 2-seaters? While Flying Central you get 15 p. for downing a Bristol but only 10 p. for downing a Halberstadt flying for Entente?

 

Is this intentional?

 

Now to ground objective points granted for attacks which WERE NOT YET activated. There is the Sizz-mission I believe were we arrived at the point that no one bothers to complete the recons anymore, the first mission objectives, as described in the briefing. Instead every veteran goes stright for the ground target basing on the good knowledge of the map and simply knows what to attack AND still gets points accounted for. For me it is gaming the map - was this intentional?

 

Can the points be granted ONLY FOR objectives that are in fact activated by the in-map icons?

 

Sahaj

 

A few of us in the 20's were thinking the same thing, Other day we noticed a central player bombing everything before doing recon , 20 minutes he had a number of targets done so we asked what's up and all we got was a nonsense reply . So we decided to leave the recon objective, we bombed a couple bridges and then a factory and got nothing in return,  I wasn't going to mention this but you came forward. 

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8 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Hi all,

 

a few questions to the hosts but maybe also for map designers, squadrons and active pilots.

 

Why is the scoring system uneven when it comes to 2-seaters? While Flying Central you get 15 p. for downing a Bristol but only 10 p. for downing a Halberstadt flying for Entente?

 

Is this intentional?

 

Now to ground objective points granted for attacks which WERE NOT YET activated. There is the Sizz-mission I believe were we arrived at the point that no one bothers to complete the recons anymore, the first mission objectives, as described in the briefing. Instead every veteran goes stright for the ground target basing on the good knowledge of the map and simply knows what to attack AND still gets points accounted for. For me it is gaming the map - was this intentional?

 

Can the points be granted ONLY FOR objectives that are in fact activated by the in-map icons?

 

Sahaj

 

Did not know about point difference for bombers. But I did start a recon awhile back right at the start of the mission it was A recon close and not to deep...…….did it in good time made it back and when targets were updated I looked at stats to see a central flyer had already hit 7 targets that person wasn't even in when I started. Seems to me central doesn't have to fly recons at all.

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4 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

A few of us in the 20's were thinking the same thing, Other day we noticed a central player bombing everything before doing recon , 20 minutes he had a number of targets done so we asked what's up and all we got was a nonsense reply . So we decided to leave the recon objective, we bombed a couple bridges and then a factory and got nothing in return,  I wasn't going to mention this but you came forward. 

I guess it might be a famous farmer 🤭, but seriously some are for mission objective and winning the map for whole coalition in the end of month and some mostyly for personal/team score by gaming the game and farming the score. It's hard to do both, but we all should try our best to overcome it and fight fair for all. 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

I guess it might be a famous farmer 🤭, but seriously some are for mission objective and winning the map for whole coalition in the end of month and some mostyly for personal/team score by gaming the game and farming the score. It's hard to do both, but we all should try our best to overcome it and fight fair for all. 

agreed but if the are ways to game this , its only fair if both sides are aware of it. A 5 point difference in bombers is another matter tho. if that is the case.

Edited by NO.20_D_McGoun

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If you know the map you can take out the recon targets before you do the recon but you must complete the recons in order to win the map. Not sure about the in game discrepancy with respect to the 2 seaters. They are treated equally on the parser tho.

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46 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

If you know the map you can take out the recon targets before you do the recon but you must complete the recons in order to win the map.

 

This is the case on some of the maps.  The mission designer is aware of this and discussions have occurred previously about the need to use the recons as triggers for spawning additional missions if that is the intended purpose.

 

47 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

They are treated equally on the parser tho.

Correct.  Two seaters are coded the same on the parser.   More points are scored for downing a two seater than a single seater. 

 

What is helpful is if there are discrepancies or potential errors in missions is to note the full mission name involved so the author of that mission can review.   Reports are most likely to be read by mission authors when posted on the Flugpark thread rather than starting a entirely unique thread for a question.

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39 minutes ago, J5_Baeumer said:

 

This is the case on some of the maps.  The mission designer is aware of this and discussions have occurred previously about the need to use the recons as triggers for spawning additional missions if that is the intended purpose.

 

Correct.  Two seaters are coded the same on the parser.   More points are scored for downing a two seater than a single seater. 

 

What is helpful is if there are discrepancies or potential errors in missions is to note the full mission name involved so the author of that mission can review.   Reports are most likely to be read by mission authors when posted on the Flugpark thread rather than starting a entirely unique thread for a question.

 

no the question was: why you get 15 points for shooting a Bristol and 10 points for shooting a Halb.....?! This is not equal

 

And we would not notice that if we would not play in April the Centrals

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The parser scores Halberstadts and Bristols as the same, so if there is a difference it would likely be due to there being bonus applied.  

There are two bonuses:  +25% for returning to base safely and +25% for your coalition winning the mission.  It is possible to earn both bonuses which would = +50%.

Without anyone providing a screenshot of the scoring, its frankly difficult to tell. 

 

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Posted (edited)

@J5_Baeumer this two seater difference I also noticed some time ago but it was in the  game score , not in the parser score on the stat page where modifiers as you mentioned above are applied . I don't know if both are related I meant if in the game points are  involved in equation with that on stat page or they are independent and there is no issue here. But definitely when I switched to blue site I noticed 5 points more for downing the Bristol after the sortie.

S

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said:

@J5_Baeumer this two seater difference I also noticed some time ago but it was in the  game score , not in the parser score on the stat page where modifiers as you mentioned above are applied . I don't know if both are related I meant if in the game points are  involved in equation with that on stat page or they are independent and there is no issue here. But definitely when I switched to blue site I noticed 5 points more for downing the Bristol after the sortie.

S

 

 I don't know why the scores would be different from one side to the other. In truth, I never noticed this.  The scoring on the parser however is separate from scoring in game. Fighter kills are awarded 50 points, 2 seaters,100. This is the same no matter which side you fly on.

Edited by J5_Gamecock
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More important question is how much you pay Lopnow and does he ever sleep 😉.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Why is the scoring system uneven when it comes to 2-seaters? While Flying Central you get 15 p. for downing a Bristol but only 10 p. for downing a Halberstadt flying for Entente?

 

Is this intentional?

 

Can't comment on the scoring system question I have no clue if you mean the parser or the ingame points. Server operators can not alter ingame points so when you talking about these you should ask the IL2 devs the question. Afaik the ingame scoring system gives you 10 points for a fighter and 15 points for a 2 seater. No matter the coalition. If you are talking about the parser points, these can be altered by J5 and they did so for the Bloody April event. The parser points have nothing to do with the ingame scoring system but i highly doubt they would change it to something that is uneven. 

 

18 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Now to ground objective points granted for attacks which WERE NOT YET activated. There is the Sizz-mission I believe were we arrived at the point that no one bothers to complete the recons anymore, the first mission objectives, as described in the briefing. Instead every veteran goes straight for the ground target basing on the good knowledge of the map and simply knows what to attack AND still gets points accounted for. For me it is gaming the map - was this intentional?

 

Can the points be granted ONLY FOR objectives that are in fact activated by the in-map icons?

 

The system in place with my mission is as follows:

 

Every ground target sits there for the entire mission duration. Except moving targets like lorries, which have the tendency to get stuck when they drive for longer periods of time. So moving targets are the only ones which spawn after the recon was successful.

 

You are able to kill every ground target before you successfully accomplish your recon. Why shouldn't you? In other missions on the Flugpark you can also bomb targets without having to do a recon first. And of course you will get personal points for your ground target kills.

 

The diffrence is that that those targets, which were not "activated" through a recon don't count as mission objective and therefore don't count towards a coalition winning the mission. By winning the mission you are granting every pilot in that coalition a hefty 25% bonus on all their points in that mission which is pretty significant (we are talking parser points here). The targets which aren't photographed by a successfull recon sortie infact will respawn after a certain ammount of time and only stop respawning if they are

 

1) photographed in a successfull recon sortie and

2) then destroyed  again.

 

Only now they will count as mission objective. Pretty clever right ;)

 

Spoiler

The mission is still WIP. I have plans to randomize the targets in every sector so that the mission feels diffrent every  time you play it. There are 3 objectives in every sector and there are 3 sectors for each coalition. My plan is to have 6 targets for every sector of which 3 gets activated randomly after the successfull recon sortie. So this makes it 6x6=36 targets of which 18 of them will be activated. That is some hard work in the ME. But this has to wait as I am doing my third exam right now in real life and I have no time to fiddle with the mission editor right now.

 

 

17 hours ago, NO.20_D_McGoun said:

Did not know about point difference for bombers. But I did start a recon awhile back right at the start of the mission it was A recon close and not to deep...…….did it in good time made it back and when targets were updated I looked at stats to see a central flyer had already hit 7 targets that person wasn't even in when I started. Seems to me central doesn't have to fly recons at all.

 

Everything i explained above is true for both coalitions. Not only the dark central side...

 

9 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

If you know the map you can take out the recon targets before you do the recon but you must complete the recons in order to win the map. Not sure about the in game discrepancy with respect to the 2 seaters. They are treated equally on the parser tho.

 

Yes you can but you have to do it again after the recon was successful to make it count as mission objective as explained above.

Edited by J99_Sizzlorr

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1 hour ago, 1PL-Banzai-1Esk said:

More important question is how much you pay Lopnow and does he ever sleep 😉.

 

Loppnow does pro bono work for J5 and sleeps less than Larner.

19 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

 

 

Why is the scoring system uneven when it comes to 2-seaters? While Flying Central you get 15 p. for downing a Bristol but only 10 p. for downing a Halberstadt flying for Entente?

 

 

 

Possibly because Bristols are BEASTS and Halberstats fall apart if you fart in their general direction.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Loppnow does pro bono work for J5 and sleeps less than Larner.

 

He should really get a mention in Aviators Chronicles. 

 

It's not fair it mentions and tracks aces only. No love for ground pounders.

 

Lopnow is a machine and he keeps you on first position in squad rankings month after month.

 

Can we clone him for 1PL?

 

S!

 

 

Edited by 1PL-Banzai-1Esk
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Afaik the ingame scoring system gives you 10 points for a fighter and 15 points for a 2 seater. No matter the coalition. If you are talking about the parser points, these can be altered by J5 and they did so for the Bloody April event.

 

Exactly that is not the case, mission score gives you ONLY 10 p. for the Halberstadt and 15 p. for Bristol - my question is if it is furhter reflected in the parser score - I did not check that yet.

 

7 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

You are able to kill every ground target before you successfully accomplish your recon. Why shouldn't you? In other missions on the Flugpark you can also bomb targets without having to do a recon first. And of course you will get personal points for your ground target kills.

 

Isn't it just what I meant about gaming the map? Personal score adds up to team score/squadron score - so if you bomb renewable targets 10 times than eventhough one coalition wins the mission at the end the squadron who bombed the respawning targets 10 times has more points. IMO this is just a weak incentive to win the mission as a coalition and a super incentive to farm points. On J5's mission bombing targets are automatically mission objectives, so while you are bombing you are winning or losing the mission. This is the difference.

 

Maybe a +50% score bonus would be a better option? or making the ground targets respawn only AFTER the recons are completed? As an addtional incentive you could make the recons count (as in the J5's mission)?

 

Another thing (both missions) that comes to my mind is why aren't there any defensive tasks icons displayed? For NEW players on the server it would be a good 'INTEL INFO' where to fly, where to defend targets on their own terriotory etc. - only offensive tasks targets are displayed. I mean for me it is logical that such a defence information ought to be available for all pilots flying for their particualr side. Is this a technical limitation or is there another reason?

 

Sahaj

 

2020_1_26__20_33_2.jpg

2020_4_2__23_18_47 NEW.jpg

Edited by 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk

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42 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

my question is if it is furhter reflected in the parser score - I did not check that yet.

 

 It is not. On the parser you will get 50 points for a fighter, 100 points for a 2 seater no matter which side you fly on.

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4 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

By winning the mission you are granting every pilot in that coalition a hefty 25% bonus on all their points in that mission which is pretty significant

Something I didn't know. Thanks for the info.

 

3 hours ago, J5_Klugermann said:

Possibly because Bristols are BEASTS

So then that means we get extra for the DR1 and looking like the D7?

 

37 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

making the ground targets respawn only AFTER the recons are completed

I personally think the targets should not spawn at all until the recon is done period.

 

45 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Another thing (both missions) that comes to my mind is why aren't there any defensive tasks icons displayed?

I agree, kind of hard to defend your side when you have no clue on what your defending though it would make it harder to sneak in and bomb anything so I'm 50/50 on this one. Maybe show the target on your side when the recon is done on the enemy side. So if you do recon B on they enemy's side the same target is shown on your side.  

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I'm wondering why we get more points for an AI 2 seater than a Camel flown by Sahaj ?

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Another thing (both missions) that comes to my mind is why aren't there any defensive tasks icons displayed? For NEW players on the server it would be a good 'INTEL INFO' where to fly, where to defend targets on their own terriotory etc. - only offensive tasks targets are displayed. I mean for me it is logical that such a defence information ought to be available for all pilots flying for their particualr side. Is this a technical limitation or is there another reason?

 

Sahaj

 

+1

Edited by J5_HellCat_
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Isn't it just what I meant about gaming the map? Personal score adds up to team score/squadron score - so if you bomb renewable targets 10 times than eventhough one coalition wins the mission at the end the squadron who bombed the respawning targets 10 times has more points. IMO this is just a weak incentive to win the mission as a coalition and a super incentive to farm points. On J5's mission bombing targets are automatically mission objectives, so while you are bombing you are winning or losing the mission. This is the difference.

Best to talk with Baeumer about parser stuff. For the sake of completion points do sometimes play a role in if a coalition wins the mission or not. But I still haven't figured out when the points victory is given out from the parser. What i figured out is that one side must lead with 1000 points to win a mission in the parser by points. 

 

3 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Another thing (both missions) that comes to my mind is why aren't there any defensive tasks icons displayed? For NEW players on the server it would be a good 'INTEL INFO' where to fly, where to defend targets on their own terriotory etc. - only offensive tasks targets are displayed. I mean for me it is logical that such a defence information ought to be available for all pilots flying for their particualr side. Is this a technical limitation or is there another reason?

This was a design desicion to not clutter the map with icons. Matts mission didn't have it so i left it for mine as well...

 

3 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Exactly that is not the case, mission score gives you ONLY 10 p. for the Halberstadt and 15 p. for Bristol - my question is if it is furhter reflected in the parser score - I did not check that yet.

This is IL2 related and maybe the last updated changed that. Maybe ask Hussar to forward it to the devs through beta tester forum....

Edited by J99_Sizzlorr

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Posted (edited)

On the defensive tasks questions I've also tended to wish I could have some limited intelligence information. I'm happy to provide combat air patrols within our own land. But other than targets that you learn about the existence for, such as the barge on the Somme that tends to exist for the Germans to bomb, you do not know anything about the assets you need to defend and so to protect these your patrols tend to be about protecting the frontline instead.

 

I've noticed on Combat Box a mission (believe was "Crossing the Rhine") where one defensive task was given as an area. I believe sometimes the missions on Flugpark also indicates an "heavy aa concentration" zone marking similar areas though those appear to be circles rather than custom shapes. Could some defensive tasks be shown to the player in the same manner rather than using pin point defensive task icons. This perhaps might then provide players with an idea about what areas need to be defended and the types of targets that these could be but not provide players with a pin point location of some objects to camp around that would make it too hard for players to sneak onto that specific objective.

 

Just thinking aloud here. 

 

992301428_Il-2Sturmovik11_05_202019_59_41.thumb.png.e89c1bdfcbf9700c0471c042c63050b1.png

 

Edited by Oliver88
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From the parser author:

 

FAQ

Frequently Asked Questions

Why statistics on the site does not coincide with the statistics in the game?

Algorithms collection statistics IL2 stats differs from statistics in-game. As a consequence of these statistics will not coincide with the game.

http://stats.jasta5.org:8000/en/faq/

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 9:27 PM, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Best to talk with Baeumer about parser stuff. For the sake of completion points do sometimes play a role in if a coalition wins the mission or not. But I still haven't figured out when the points victory is given out from the parser. What i figured out is that one side must lead with 1000 points to win a mission in the parser by points. 

 

Just inputting my two cents after playing many hours on both missions and both sides. Experience can open some new insights.

 

If the goal of the mission designer is that ONE SIDE has to win the map before the 3h clock then it would be interesting to see how many times J5's mission has ended before the 3h countdown vs how many times your mission ended before the 3h clock.

 

Another thing that comes to my mind is flak, after one of the updates the WWI flak bug was corrected which results in more precise flak hits overall. Now, it would be better to reduce the flak AI level for both missions -  it makes the flak too deadly now. Frequency is ok just the accuracy. At the same time it is an anty-camping measure!

Edited by 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Another thing that comes to my mind is flak, after one of the updates the WWI flak bug was corrected which results in more precise flak hits overall. Now, it would be better to reduce the flak AI level for both missions -  it makes the flak too deadly now. Frequency is ok just the accuracy. At the same time it is an anty-camping measure!

Shooting and or driving down the balloon will decrease AI Flak level in that entire sector...

 

7 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Just inputting my two cents after playing many hours on both missions and both sides. Experience can open some new insights.

All good I'm just trying to answer your questions...

 

7 minutes ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

If the goal of the mission designer is that ONE SIDE has to win the map before the 3h clock then it would be interesting to see how many times J5's mission has ended before the 3h countdown vs how many times your mission ended before the 3h clock.

I don't understand, where you are going with this here? No side has to win the mission per se through objectives. There is also the option of winning it by points or beeing inconclusive, meaning a draw...

Edited by J99_Sizzlorr

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Sizz,

 

could you consider adding points for completed recons in your mission? Similar to what is in the other mission. This shooting down of searchlights at the end of the recons? I think that would greatly improve the incentive to complete the recons and at the same time make  the scenario more dynamic!

 

 

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Loving the server and the missions.

 

I do have a quick question though. When joining the server how do I know how much time is left on the current running mission? A couple of times I've joined and decided to do a recon mission just to fly all the way over to the objective and up pops the message "mission will end in 5 minutes". Had I known there wasn't enough time left to complete the recon I would have just jumped into a scout and gone looking for trouble instead. 😉

 

Great server though.....

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Bartman said:

Loving the server and the missions.

 

I do have a quick question though. When joining the server how do I know how much time is left on the current running mission? A couple of times I've joined and decided to do a recon mission just to fly all the way over to the objective and up pops the message "mission will end in 5 minutes". Had I known there wasn't enough time left to complete the recon I would have just jumped into a scout and gone looking for trouble instead. 😉

 

Great server though.....

It is not good place to ask questions about Fulgpark here (there is thread made by servers operators - Jasta5) but anyway missions times without winning - 3h , you can check when mission strat in brifig (map page) ,and compare with plane cockpit clock.  If there is none info in brifing page go to stat page and you can check mission duration time from previous mission playtime (check name and version) - history.

All mission can end sooner when one side win by doing objectives - check how many left , what stress level is currently and estimate .

Edited by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Sizz,

 

could you consider adding points for completed recons in your mission? Similar to what is in the other mission. This shooting down of searchlights at the end of the recons? I think that would greatly improve the incentive to complete the recons and at the same time make  the scenario more dynamic!

 

Yes I do consider this.

 

Here is a roadmap I did back in January:

 

Roadmap:

 

WIP: Seperate Recons/Change Recon script/reward/Add more airfields

WIP: Recon can land at any active airfield

WIP: Cities and towns status

WIP: Historical squad and plane distribution

WIP: Randomizing targets in every sector

WIP: Recon rewards

Edited by J99_Sizzlorr
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10 hours ago, Bartman said:

When joining the server how do I know how much time is left on the current running mission?

Look at mission statement, will tell you map starting time, One mission has wrong finishing time, Sizzlorrs map I believe, says starting time 6:30 and finishes 12:30, should be finishing time 9:30 so just add 3 hrs to starting time.

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On 5/18/2020 at 10:54 PM, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Look at mission statement, will tell you map starting time, One mission has wrong finishing time, Sizzlorrs map I believe, says starting time 6:30 and finishes 12:30, should be finishing time 9:30 so just add 3 hrs to starting time.

Already noted, but it is just one of the three missions with that mistake in the briefing

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7 hours ago, J99_Sizzlorr said:

Already noted, but it is just one of the three missions with that mistake in the briefing

I knew you knew about it, was just telling others incase they didn't know and thought they had 6 hrs to win the mission. 

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2 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

I knew you knew about it, was just telling others incase they didn't know and thought they had 6 hrs to win the mission. 

I didn't know, you know that I already knew :crazy:

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Can you please remove the instrument panel? I don't want to have to remove my entire HUD to get rid of that awful throttle % text pop up every  time I adjust my throttle.
This game / server just get worse every day

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40 minutes ago, 127Tom said:

Can you please remove the instrument panel? I don't want to have to remove my entire HUD to get rid of that awful throttle % text pop up every  time I adjust my throttle.
This game / server just get worse every day

Don't think they can on the server part, You need to turn that off on your side, H or i I think. 

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5 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

 

Don't think they can on the server part, You need to turn that off on your side, H or i I think. 

 

Can now. I believe he's referring to tech chat instead.

 

Quote

84. Tech chat and handling tips are now governed by difficulty settings that can be enforced on a multiplayer server;

 

Though I would not disable tech chat on the server as it's your sole feedback on the status (and whether your in zone) of your repair, refuel, rearm.

Edited by Oliver88

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:26 PM, 1PL-Sahaj-1Esk said:

Another thing that comes to my mind is flak, after one of the updates the WWI flak bug was corrected which results in more precise flak hits overall. Now, it would be better to reduce the flak AI level for both missions -  it makes the flak too deadly now. Frequency is ok just the accuracy. At the same time it is an anty-camping measure!

 

This. It's just crazy, guys. There I am in my Camel dodging as much as possible, and it's tracking me everywhere, makes it impossible to have any kind of SA, hits my fuel tank, it forces people to stay on their side, and the game gets boring and boring.

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