Enemy AI fixating only on player

[Juliu5]

Is there any way to prevent enemy AI fighters fixating only on player in PWCG generated missions ? they follow me no matter what even if there is 3-4 friendlies shooting them in the back and killing them , they wont dodge or maneuver they just follow me and it seems they wont run out of fuel either ? Anyone ?

[PatrickAWlson]

Look  at the bright side: your squadron mates must love you  

 

Serious answer: Yes, you can do something about it.  Be less aggressive.  Let your wing mates attack first.  The AI gets fixated.  It does not get fixated on the player, just fixated on a target.  If you make yourself the best target it will become fixated on you.  If you let your wing mates attract some of the attention then enemy AI will become fixated on them just as readily as they become fixated on you.

 

The idea that the AI is fixated on the player has been brought up many times.  The developers (this has nothing to do with PWCG) have stated often that there is nothing in the AI that picks out the players.  There is. however, code that picks out "the best target" ... whatever that may mean to the AI. 

 

I used to experience the same thing ... four EA trailing me while my hapless wingmen trailed them.  It got better when I waited on my AI mates before joining in.  Things are much better now.  With recent AI improvements wingmen are no longer hapless, so they can help if you are in trouble.  If you get one glued to you then drag and bag.  In the meantime, stay above the fray (literally - try to keep an altitude advantage on everybody around you.  The AI is less interested in you if they can't reach you) and look to help out your AI mates.

 

 

[-332FG-Reedrick]

I just played a mission where I had to head back to base after taking down a Bf-110 that shot me up pretty good.....I head back (mind you I'm basically at the halfway point of the mission) as my wingmen continue engaging the enemy AI.  After about 15 minutes I get back to base land, and casually taxing the whole Luftwaffe appears on the map and strafes me to pieces on the taxi way

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, Reedrick said:

I just played a mission where I had to head back to base after taking down a Bf-110 that shot me up pretty good.....I head back (mind you I'm basically at the halfway point of the mission) as my wingmen continue engaging the enemy AI.  After about 15 minutes I get back to base land, and casually taxing the whole Luftwaffe appears on the map and strafes me to pieces on the taxi way

 

Been there and done that!

[TheSNAFU]

Hopefully Pats work to add AA with better than novice quality to our bases and along the path home will help. It may at least improve the odds if those clueless AI chase us half way across Europe lol. 

Edited May 15, 2020 by TheSNAFU

[PatrickAWlson]

4 hours ago, Reedrick said:

I just played a mission where I had to head back to base after taking down a Bf-110 that shot me up pretty good.....I head back (mind you I'm basically at the halfway point of the mission) as my wingmen continue engaging the enemy AI.  After about 15 minutes I get back to base land, and casually taxing the whole Luftwaffe appears on the map and strafes me to pieces on the taxi way

 

If that happened as described I am willing to bet that was not the enemy following you to base.  That was a flight going about its business (no doubt an offensive patrol) and you just happened to be there.   But yes, better AA would help.  That is in progress now.  I have combined work from Murleen with my own.  I made AA is own simple config setting so you can now separately set ground activity and AA.  I also fixed a bug that would prevent trains from being added to the mission, fixed pathing for truck convoys so they will stay on the road, and changed the train and convoy placement logic to put them closer to the mission area.  

 

I wrote some diagnostic code to count the number of units in a mission.  Here's what you might see:

LOW AA and Ground

unit count ambient : 42

• Ambient unit count train : 2
• Ambient unit count truck : 7
• Ambient unit count AA : 23
• Ambient unit count battle : 10
• Ambient unit count total : 42

unit count balloons : 0
unit count flights : 11
unit count airfields : 76
unit count total : 129

MEDIUM AA and Ground

unit count ambient : 235

• Ambient unit count train : 4
• Ambient unit count truck : 29
• Ambient unit count AA : 62
• Ambient unit count battle : 140
• Ambient unit count total : 235

unit count balloons : 0
unit count flights : 130
unit count airfields : 84
unit count total : 449

 

HIGH AA and Ground

unit count ambient : 554

• Ambient unit count train : 6
• Ambient unit count truck : 62
• Ambient unit count AA : 79
• Ambient unit count battle : 407
• Ambient unit count total : 554

unit count balloons : 0
unit count flights : 240
unit count airfields : 108
unit count total : 902

 

I might up the AA count around fields again as it is not really that big of a contributor.  I also want to look into doing something to make the AI break off either around fields or deep behind the lines, otherwise it will be a slaughter any time they approach an enemy field.  I think it was @Gambit21 who said that was possible.

 

[Varibraun]

8 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I made AA is own simple config setting so you can now separately set ground activity and AA.

 

8 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

I also want to look into doing something to make the AI break off either around fields or deep behind the lines, otherwise it will be a slaughter any time they approach an enemy field. 

 

Thank you for these specific considerations so we don't have to worry about losing 1/2 a squadron because of the A/I target fixation.  I know we all play differently, but personally I would rather land under fire and make a quick exit than watch the A/I mindlessly blown out of the sky by super accurate AA - so I am really happy with PWCG config options (even better if you can keep them away).

[Kur12]

Since we are talking about anti-aircraft artillery, I drew attention to another inaccuracy in the game. Quite often, fighters are given the task of attacking vehicles or enemy troops. In this case, a group of fighters crosses the front line and goes to the goal at low altitude and low speed. If an anti-aircraft gun gets in their way, then such planes become an easy target - someone must be damaged or shot down. Such a group begins to gain speed and altitude only immediately in front of the target.
But in real war they acted differently (according to the memoirs of the pilots). The group climbed even before the front line, and then went to the target at an increased speed and with a decrease, performing an anti-aircraft maneuver - constantly changing direction horizontally and in height (the so-called "snake"). But most importantly - the speed was high, so that it was harder to get into them. And in the PWCG they barely crawl. Can this be corrected? If it is impossible to maneuver, then at least fly fast and higher.

[PatrickAWlson]

@Kur12 

There were lots of different ways that attacks were carried out, from going in low to going in high and diving. 

 

Many of the things that you are asking for would require AI changes in the game as opposed to changes in mission design.  Anything related to pathing I can do.  Anything related to a specific maneuver requires an AI change,

 

One thing I can mess around with is increasing speed on the target approached for ground attack.  Another os varying the profile.  For attack missions I generally have them on a low entry/exit profile, which works well for Il2s.  It might be interesting to add a higher altitude diving profile that would work better for western attack missions.

[Kur12]

7 часов назад, PatrickAWlson сказал:

Many of the things that you are asking for would require AI changes in the game as opposed to changes in mission design.  Anything related to pathing I can do.  Anything related to a specific maneuver requires an AI change,

I understand that the AI of the game can not be redone. But it would be good to make adjustments to what is within the possibilities. For example, before crossing 
the front line, raise fighters to a height of 1.5 - 2 km, and then fly to the point of attack with increased speed with decreasing height in such a way that at the 
point of the attack be at an altitude of 0.5-1 km. This will complicate the work of anti-aircraft guns. And this will be consistent with historical truth.
(I think this would be true not only for fighters, but also for attack aircraft).

PS. I translate texts well from english to russian, but very, very badly from russian to english (there was little practice). I hope you understand what I want to 
say. If it turns out clumsily, I apologize.

[Gambit21]

21 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

I might up the AA count around fields again as it is not really that big of a contributor.  I also want to look into doing something to make the AI break off either around fields or deep behind the lines, otherwise it will be a slaughter any time they approach an enemy field.  I think it was @Gambit21 who said that was possible.

 

 

Let me know if you want me to send you a sample group and/or chat on the phone regarding this.

[PatrickAWlson]

44 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Let me know if you want me to send you a sample group and/or chat on the phone regarding this.

 

I asked in the missions section and got an answer from Jaegermeister.  It worked.  I wrote the code this evening but it will take wider exposure to see how well it's working.  I made is such that this only affects fighters and will not affect fighters on offensive patrols (where they are supposed to be coming after you) or escorts. Every fighter has an individual "Go Away" CZ at every active airfield in the mission, so it will only impact the guys following.  It does affect your AI flight mates as well.

 

The "Go Away" waypoint is the landing approach, which has medium priority.  This way the fighters won't be helpless but they will RTB.  We'll see how it goes.

[Varibraun]

10 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Every fighter has an individual "Go Away" CZ at every active airfield

 

REALLY appreciate this level of detail in your work.  I can't imagine how tedious it must be!

[PatrickAWlson]

5 hours ago, Varibraun said:

 

REALLY appreciate this level of detail in your work.  I can't imagine how tedious it must be!

 

It's not.  That's what software is for.  Write the algorithm one time and it does its thing thousands of times. This process is probably 200 lines of code - an evenings work.  Now it will happen every time.  

 

[Varibraun]

...and the ability to figure our what code is needed to solve the problem.  I am just glad you know how to make it happen.  I look forward to seeing those 200 lines in action, but I have to admit part of me will miss the adrenaline rush of those hot landings (not really).  Thank you!