On Free mode, IA crew is not working

[Cthulhus]

Hello,

On Free mode, the IA crew don't work. I press ² commands and choose fire at while on every ground target, I'm the "commander" and nothing, they don't react.

 

That work only on scripted maps.

 

Any idea?

 

Thanks

[VSN_Razor]

Did you enable the autopilot while trying in free mode?

[Cthulhus]

Yes, autopilot engage on the pilot seat and sitll nothing. Does it work for you?

Edited March 22, 2020 by Cthulhus

[VSN_Razor]

It does. First, enable "autpilot" in realism settings, then when you are driver, activate autopilot, change to commander and then you can give orders.

[kalnaren]

I'm in the same boat as the OP for the tank quick missions. Movement commands will work (generally -though I notice as time goes on they get less and less reliable), however the only targeting commands that work is the one where I manually target something and tell the gunner to engage that specific target. Telling the gunner to engage ground targets at will does nothing. 

 

I'm also not convinced it's necessary to have the autopilot on. In the campaign missions I drive the tank myself, and the gunner still auto-targets and auto-engages. 

[Mijit]

You're not alone Cthulhus, I've never seen the Crew Gunner AI engage targets on their own in Quick Mission, I suspect there's something missing from the Quick Mission setup files that allows the AI to function properly.

 

The "Last Man Standing" missions are equally as buggy/broken, only with the added benefit of the enemy AI being just as broken and useless and rarely if at all reacting to the player or deviating from their endlessly looping patrols.

 

 

[kalnaren]

The funny thing is that I had it work ONCE, and only once, in a specific quick mission driving a KV. I've tried many times to reproduce it but I haven't been able to. 

 

Too bad we can't edit the quick missions. With a few tweaks those could be decent replayable fun.. but as it sits they're pretty meh.

[Cthulhus]

Ok thanks guys ! I'm not alone and hope for a patch asap. It's very frustrating to don't be able to use it in Free Mode. (my favorite mode).

[kalnaren]

Yup, and it's made worse by the bugs in the orders AI when manually assigning targets to the gunner. 

 

Tank Crew still has a ways to go. 

[Mijit]

From today's patch notes:

 

Quote

69. Several commands of the tank commander (for example, "Attack ground targets on sight") will work even if the mission script doesn’t include any commands for this tank;

 

I'm yet to test it, but this should hopefully remedy the majority of AI discrepancies between mission types.

[RIVALDO]

 

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10 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

 

Well it is like technical chat - you can not use it if you don't want

And now we can play for driver or commander, maybe someone want be a driver and don't like be a gunner - game give them possibility to their own gameplay. You think it is cheat? Don't use it. 

[RIVALDO]

Spoiler

 

 

 

[stupor-mundi]

Tried to replicate this, in Quick Mission, in a (new) T34.

I got as far as turning autopilot on as a driver, but struggle with the 'commands'. Probably because I never used that functionality before and my keybindings might be crap for that.

Under 'Flight leader controls' , I have 'attack nearest ground target', bound to LAlt-2.

I pressed it and nothing happened, even though there were ground targets well in sight. No message in technochat.

Would a notification in technochat be expected if the key is bound correctly?

Would the gunner be expected to show this behavior at all ranges or only when closer?

 

==

Tried this again, this time online, on Finnish, in a Panther. Again, didn't manage to replicate.

Could someone explain the 'give comands' part in more detail? I played around with my keybindings for 'attack nearest air target' and 'attack nearest ground target', but nothing happened when I pressed them.

Should I see feedback on technochat if it works? Is there a special mode to get into, to give commands?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by stupor-mundi

[RIVALDO]

13 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

Tried to replicate this, in Quick Mission, in a (new) T34.

I got as far as turning autopilot on as a driver, but struggle with the 'commands'. Probably because I never used that functionality before and my keybindings might be crap for that.

Under 'Flight leader controls' , I have 'attack nearest ground target', bound to LAlt-2.

I pressed it and nothing happened, even though there were ground targets well in sight. No message in technochat.

Would a notification in technochat be expected if the key is bound correctly?

Would the gunner be expected to show this behavior at all ranges or only when closer?

 

==

Tried this again, this time online, on Finnish, in a Panther. Again, didn't manage to replicate.

Could someone explain the 'give comands' part in more detail? I played around with my keybindings for 'attack nearest air target' and 'attack nearest ground target', but nothing happened when I pressed them.

Should I see feedback on technochat if it works? Is there a special mode to get into, to give commands?

 

 

 

 

 I pressed Tilda,F1,F2 from commander's position. Then switch to any position but commander's. And watch

[stupor-mundi]

1 hour ago, RIVALDO said:

 I pressed Tilda,F1,F2 from commander's position. Then switch to any position but commander's. And watch

F1 and F2 are bound to views, in my keybindings. For example, F2 is external view. I think those are the defaults?

What have you got bound to Tilde, F1, and F2?

Oh, and do you get some kind of feedback when you press those? Maybe on technochat?

(I will have to do some keybinding changes on mine, because I can't use Tilde...)

Edited April 13, 2020 by stupor-mundi

[RIVALDO]

2 hours ago, stupor-mundi said:

F1 and F2 are bound to views, in my keybindings. For example, F2 is external view. I think those are the defaults?

What have you got bound to Tilde, F1, and F2?

Oh, and do you get some kind of feedback when you press those? Maybe on technochat?

(I will have to do some keybinding changes on mine, because I can't use Tilde...)

Yes i get the feedback from the crew. Tilde is the main commander's menu. Fs are assigned to different actions 

[stupor-mundi]

5 hours ago, RIVALDO said:

Tilde is the main commander's menu

 

I finally managed to do it. My issue had been apparently that I could never use tilde, so I had to asign another key.

Autopilot wasn't really part of it, it works fine without. Did that offline in quick mission in a panther, and then online on Action Tanks in a tiger.

I just stayed in the commander position, driving around, and the gunner acquired things and blew them up.

So, since this whole 'command' functionality is new to me, a question:

Which part exactly of this is new?

Is it that the gunner aquires AND SHOOTS in multiplayer?

I.e. in multiplayer, is it only the new thing in this update that the gunner shoots? Or also the fact that he acquires?

And, further, is this regarded as a bug by the devs, or 'feature'?

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by stupor-mundi

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18 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

Is it that the gunner aquires AND SHOOTS in multiplayer?

Both - he recognize targets and open fire. 

 

19 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

bug by the devs, or 'feature'?

@Han said it is a feature, but remark "think about"

 

Well, if one player want play only as a driver - why not? And if it MUST be in server settings, like russian community whines - why technical chat don't be in that settings?

I try it, and find it is funny, but do not think it is a big problem.

1. You can not use it if you think that it is not fair. Gunner do that only by player order. Like technical chat.

2. Server admins can adjust AI level for tanks, from low to ace(4 levels). Will be you gunner with level "low" are such effective like with "ace" level?  

3. It is solution against strong AI anti-tank artillery

4. Player can play as drivers or commanders if they want it.

[stupor-mundi]

20 minutes ago, NHK295M said:

Both - he recognize targets and open fire. 

 

@Han said it is a feature, but remark "think about"

 

Well, if one player want play only as a driver - why not? And if it MUST be in server settings, like russian community whines - why technical chat don't be in that settings?

I try it, and find it is funny, but do not think it is a big problem.

1. You can not use it if you think that it is not fair. Gunner do that only by player order. Like technical chat.

2. Server admins can adjust AI level for tanks, from low to ace(4 levels). Will be you gunner with level "low" are such effective like with "ace" level?  

3. It is solution against strong AI anti-tank artillery

4. Player can play as drivers or commanders if they want it.

 

I completely disagree. For me, not just the fact that the gunner shoots, kills the game, but even the fact that he acquires.

Which isn't to say that I'm opposed to the functionality, it's just a completely different gameplay.

This is very similar to the difference between a server with icons (gps), like EU official, and one without. Just like with gps, you easily know where the enemy is.

So I think this should be a different category. There can be servers with it, and servers without it.

However, on a 'hard' server without icons, for me, tanking is basically hide-and-seek with tanks. Obviously, if a player can activate this functionality to have the gunner point out an opponent which with his own eyes, or rather, his own situational awareness, he wouldn't have seen, that's a game breaker. And that's only the 'acquiring'.

As for the shooting, AI gunnery in IL-2 has always been very precise, obviosly the AI doesn't struggle to estimate distance, it just knows the distance. Also when shooting at a moving target, calculating the correct lead is no challenge for the AI, something human players aren't always good at.

Since I don't design missions myself I don't really know how much the AI skill level affects the accuracy of the gunnery.

But if you play this as someone who aims himself obviously you don't want to play against people who use AI for that. It's appalling.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by stupor-mundi

[RIVALDO]

46 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

 

I finally managed to do it. My issue had been apparently that I could never use tilde, so I had to asign another key.

Autopilot wasn't really part of it, it works fine without. Did that offline in quick mission in a panther, and then online on Action Tanks in a tiger.

I just stayed in the commander position, driving around, and the gunner acquired things and blew them up.

So, since this whole 'command' functionality is new to me, a question:

Which part exactly of this is new?

Is it that the gunner aquires AND SHOOTS in multiplayer?

I.e. in multiplayer, is it only the new thing in this update that the gunner shoots? Or also the fact that he acquires?

And, further, is this regarded as a bug by the devs, or 'feature'?

 

It has been going on for at least a couple of months. But it would only do it randomly once in a while. Usually by spawn or flag areas. I noticed it on Tigers and Pz4.Then i heard it on allied radio channel as well . There wasn't a for sure recipe how to activate it.Maybe conditions like outnumbered by enemy or something triggered it.Don't know.So it would work on one tank,then after taking another the AI would never take control till the end of the mission. You can also disable it by giving the command cease fire. NHK295M thinks it's no biggie. And that's normal to hear from someone who never plays on tank servers. This AI option should only be used offline! The AI can't see through most buildings and hills.Still sees well through vegetation .SO IT'S LIKE PLAYING WITH THE MARKERS TURNED ON! NO,THANK YOU!!!

[stupor-mundi]

15 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

It has been going on for at least a couple of months. But it would only do it randomly once in a while.

Well, that might explain a few things. People sometimes surprisingly seemed to know where I'd show up, bordering on clairvoyance, and it seems I unnecessarily credited them with a sudden surge of their analytical abilities.

As if the neutering of APCR wasn't bad enough, this new nonsense again favours the Tigers. If you're in the well fortified long-distance tank, you don't mind such a feature if you can use it to figure out who's trying to sneak up on you!

Conversely, if you're in the undergunned but small and fast tank, you rely on surprise afforded by terrain.

Edited April 13, 2020 by stupor-mundi

[RIVALDO]

2 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

Well, that might explain a few things. People sometimes surprisingly seemed to know where I'd show up, bordering on clairvoyance, and it seems I unnecessarily credited them with a sudden surge of their analytical abilities.

Yeah,we discovered that by switching to enemy radio channel. First we thought it was chatter from the pilots but soon we realized that the player controlled AI gunner was spotting and blowing us up.

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4 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

It has been going on for at least a couple of months. But it would only do it randomly once in a while. Usually by spawn or flag areas. I noticed it on Tigers and Pz4.Then i heard it on allied radio channel as well .

It works now on all tanks(TC) always by the player order from 4.005 - read patch-note 

 

Quote

69. Several commands of the tank commander (for example, "Attack ground targets on sight") will work even if the mission script doesn’t include any commands for this tank;

 

7 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

NHK295M thinks it's no biggie. And that's normal to hear from someone who never plays on tank servers

Yes, i don't play on ARCADE servers like EFront.

17 minutes ago, stupor-mundi said:

I completely disagree.

Well, it is my personal opinion, action server anyway always be only with warmed up engine, so if devs decide move it to server settings - i turn that off.

But i play without technical chat against players with it, so it would be nice to have this option in server settings too.

[RIVALDO]

2 minutes ago, NHK295M said:

It works now on all tanks(TC) always by the player order from 4.005 - read patch-note 

 

 

 

I'm aware of that.I was telling Stupor-mundi when i encountered it for the first time. 

 

And yes-it should be a feature that can be selected-unselected.It isn't the case right now therefore the online tanking part is dead.No matter which server it is-"arcade",thats always full or super duper not arcade,where horses or cows don't die from a tank shot but take out your engine when you try to run over them?

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3 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

horses or cows don't die from a tank shot

It is game bug(or feature?), not mine. There is a steps for durability for blocks in game 0, 500, 1000 ... 100000. I set it to 0 - for easy kill them by 7.62 mg's, but noted that in this case impossible kill them by cannon. Well i leave it as is - use mg's to kill animals.

 

9 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

but take out your engine when you try to run over them

I long time not play cause manually put destructable houses on my maps in editor, so i have only that horses, but not all small object on all map like on other server(s)

 

13 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

And yes-it should be a feature that can be selected-unselected.

But it is now feature that can be selected-unselected by the any player. If you don't like it - not use it. It is simple.

16 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

online tanking part is dead

Really that is not born to dead.

17 minutes ago, RIVALDO said:

always full

10-20 player it is not full and it is not online. "Free" tanks makes bad marketing for that game. 

[RIVALDO]

4 hours ago, NHK295M said:

It is game bug(or feature?), not mine. There is a steps for durability for blocks in game 0, 500, 1000 ... 100000. I set it to 0 - for easy kill them by 7.62 mg's, but noted that in this case impossible kill them by cannon. Well i leave it as is - use mg's to kill animals.

 

I long time not play cause manually put destructable houses on my maps in editor, so i have only that horses, but not all small object on all map like on other server(s)

 

But it is now feature that can be selected-unselected by the any player. If you don't like it - not use it. It is simple.

Really that is not born to dead.

10-20 player it is not full and it is not online. "Free" tanks makes bad marketing for that game. 

 

 

30 players is max number there at  the moment and on the weekends a lot of times there are almost 30 so i call it full
dont use it if you dont like it?Are you serious?Im done arguing with you,like the rest of the people on this forum!Pointless to prove something to you(
 

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1 hour ago, RIVALDO said:

30 players is max number there at  the moment and on the weekends a lot of times there are almost 30 so i call it full

Do 10 players max quantity - and you got server full for 300% Such a commy logic?

If we see to other games, mostly players prefer arcade mode, and only 5-10% choose hardcore mode. Whats why online not born to be dead - only 100 players online it is nothing. 

1 hour ago, RIVALDO said:

dont use it if you dont like it?Are you serious?

Well, when i ask about add to server settings technical chat on russian forum, whines community says me "don't use it if you don't like it"?

This is my personal opinion. On our planet we respect fair-play...

[kalnaren]

Based on a small sample size of testing I did last night:

 

Gunner commands work better, though still have some issues. Manually issuing commands to the gunner (for example, telling him to target the tank right in front of you rather than the one 500' away) seems to break the auto-acquire and fire, regardless of how often you re-issue those commands. 

 

Overall the command menu seems more responsive, which is nice, I find for movement at least I don't have to issue the same command 5 times to actually get the driver to do it.

 

Still has a ways to go but definitely an improvement.

[kalnaren]

Did some more playing.. same error with assigning targets directly. The AI gunner will focus on that one target until it's destroyed, regardless of whether or not you assign another target. Very annoying.

 

Movement error where if you tell the AI to reverse, then go to a location, they'll try and go in reverse also persists. Likewise the need to tell the AI driver to 'Return to Mission' after giving a direct command before you can tell them to go to a point. This is so clunky. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by kalnaren