il2 1941 cannon mod adds rear plate

[gimpy117]

is this historic? I'm actually kinda confused why the soviets would take out the armored glass because they added some cannons. can someone explain?  

[LukeFF]

Yes, it's historic. The steel plating provided more protection to the pilot and rear fuel tank, plus the steel plating was easier to produce. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by LukeFF

[=621=Samikatz]

I'm going to go our and guess that the 20mm model represents an early series Il-2, whereas the 23mm mod brings it up to a later series aircraft

[ShamrockOneFive]

7 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

I'm going to go our and guess that the 20mm model represents an early series Il-2, whereas the 23mm mod brings it up to a later series aircraft

 

We have a winner

 

Absolutely, the later versions had 23mm and the armor plate rather than glass. It's an interesting look at how the series evolved according to war time resource requirements.

[Alexmarine]

@LukeFF wouldn't make more sense to separate the two in two different mods with the 23mm guns linked to the inclusion of the armoured plate? Afterall both the '42 and '43 models were still being produced with 20mm guns but with the armoured plates...

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

@LukeFF wouldn't make more sense to separate the two in two different mods with the 23mm guns linked to the inclusion of the armoured plate? Afterall both the '42 and '43 models were still being produced with 20mm guns but with the armoured plates...

 

From what I remember in one of the Development Diary entries, they modeled it like they did, because there were planes built in late 1941 that had all the features of earlier Il-2s but had the armor plate and 23 mm cannons. In other words, they couldn't find any evidence of M41 planes with steel plates and 20 mm cannons.

[Barnacles]

As far as I remember, there were two factories making the il2 represented in the game. One used ShVAKs and had a supply of armoured glass. The other had 23mm VYa cannons and didn't have an abundance of armoured glass.

[Avimimus]

Out of curiosity - if we ever get '44-'45 East... what would a late variant look like? Swept back outer wing tips? More metal paneling on the wings?

 

I take it the NS-45 weren't ever widely used (they also produced structural failures if fired while in a dive? I remember one of the lend-lease interviews discussed how there were rigidity problems requiring gentleness when flying at speed and limiting burst length).

[gimpy117]

6 hours ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

@LukeFF wouldn't make more sense to separate the two in two different mods with the 23mm guns linked to the inclusion of the armoured plate? Afterall both the '42 and '43 models were still being produced with 20mm guns but with the armoured plates...

i would like that. with the rear gunner not available on the 1941 models SA is really key in the thing. I might just fly with the 20's for now 

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Out of curiosity - if we ever get '44-'45 East... what would a late variant look like? Swept back outer wing tips? More metal paneling on the wings?

 

I take it the NS-45 weren't ever widely used (they also produced structural failures if fired while in a dive? I remember one of the lend-lease interviews discussed how there were rigidity problems requiring gentleness when flying at speed and limiting burst length).

 

A bit like this one:

 

Similar to the 1943 model with the various modifications. Guns still mostly VYa-23mm's rather than the bigger guns.

 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

I take it the NS-45 weren't ever widely used (they also produced structural failures if fired while in a dive? I remember one of the lend-lease interviews discussed how there were rigidity problems requiring gentleness when flying at speed and limiting burst length).

 

No, it never was put into production. The main cannon armament remained the 23 mm VYa from 1943-45. 

[Avimimus]

13 hours ago, LukeFF said:

No, it never was put into production. The main cannon armament remained the 23 mm VYa from 1943-45. 

 

Just a few pre-production prototypes? The interview was almost certainly about the 37mm cannons... I wish I could find it. Unfortunately, after twenty years reading various things I am now regretting that I didn't keep a diary of facts with proper references for citation! I feel like all my accumulated knowledge is dubious rumour.

 

So, our Il-2 '1943' is pretty representative of the production line in '44 and '45?

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

Just a few pre-production prototypes?

 

Yes, just 1 or 2, from what I've read. The accuracy of the gun in firing trials was very poor, and the wing of the Il-2 was not strong enough to withstand the recoil.

 

2 hours ago, Avimimus said:

So, our Il-2 '1943' is pretty representative of the production line in '44 and '45?

 

For the most part, yes.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

@Avimimus I think you are mistaking the guns, NS-45 is the 45mm, and NS-37 was the 37mm gun. The IL-2 "1943" with 37mm saw mass production and almost 1200 were made, but the production stopped becuase of unsyncronized recoil causing accuracy problems. PTABs proved to be a much more succesful anti tank weapon so they prioritized that one instead.
 

[Avimimus]

Thanks for the replies! Much appreciated!

[Sublime]

20 hours ago, Avimimus said:

 

Unfortunately, after twenty years reading various things I am now regretting that I didn't keep a diary of facts with proper references for citation! I feel like all my accumulated knowledge is dubious rumour...

Oh god tell me about it.  Anything pre internet era if you dont remember the exact title and author is near hopelessly lost