VRSS works in IL2

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:17 PM, dburne said:

 

Yeah that is about where I am as well.

I do not use Vive's Motion Compensation, to me it looks better without it.

Yeah the tech is not getting the depth information properly in this game, it seems. And it seems like vsync (reprojection in this case) is always there, it's either full or half. Grml.

Edited August 12, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[C6_lefuneste]

4 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It's unfortunately still an issue, especially when many clouds and shadows appear and at Ultra. It's definitely a pipeline issue, and I hope IL-2 upgrades their engine one day, vulkan or DX12, OpenXR, forward rendering (very important!!), etc. 

 

There's not much we can do as players, you can have a 1000HP or 1500HP engine but if the drivetrain and aerodynamics are from a Golf 2 then there's not much we can do. Jump about and pull our own legs out, it won't help us that much as we're fighting diminishing returns here.. 

 

There is something else. For example on a steel bird campaign mission, I had a flight at 60 fps except when I went to land. As soon as I was near the base, fpsVR shown my CPU latency full of yellow and I went to 40 fps....I need to do some screenshot and send a question to BlackSix. I wonder what is creating this issue. That's not cloud or shadow, they were more or less the same during the flight.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Interesting. Yeah there's may be additional factors.

 

Btw may I remind you guys, repeating myself here, HTC officially stated they use Valve's OpenVR motion smoothing package. They do not have their own or an inferior motion smoothing. 

 

That was what some early testing YouTuber said, and it's was parroted by others, and the community. It's simply false, even if a thousand people repeat it.

 

Also, I A-B tested G2 and VP2, and they both show the same kind of artifacts. When depth information isn't pushed properly, that's what we get. IL-2 needs to dock correctly to OpenXR (rather than just OpenVR), as OpenXR is  fully compatible with Oculus devices as well.

 

 

What is different is only that motion reprojection (a legacy tech beneath motion smoothing) cannot be turned off. Although the "Advanced OpenVR Settings" plug-in would allow for that, haven't tried yet.

 

 

P.S. funny that autocorrect on the mobile turnt my previous post meaning upside down. I have corrected it now.

Edited August 12, 2021 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[C6_lefuneste]

I found a way to toggle on/off reprojection in gale with a button of my joystick, using fpsVR.

I wonder how it should be possible to push depth information...I have it in my mod, but what to do with it ?

Edited August 12, 2021 by c6_lefuneste

[Boundless_I]

On 8/11/2021 at 6:56 PM, AEthelraedUnraed said:

He uses a G2 as well, the Odyssey was his previous device 

 

You do know that the Reverb G2 Omnicept Edition has a refresh rate of 90Hz, right? Meaning that everything your GPU renders over that number is just a waste of power. You'll never get 144 FPS, not even with a supercomputer.

 

Given that @RAAF492SQNOz_Steve has a similar configuration and is able to run IL2 at ultra with an average framerate of 85, pretty close to the max of 90, I think there may be something wrong in your configuration. As RAAF492SQNOZ_Steve suspects, it might well be your CPU that's not up to the job.

I was referring to non VR mode where with the same system you can go for 144+ FPS. 

 

If you want your game to look like s...t than you can get 90hz of your reverb G2 or whatever, what I am saying is that without twitching things in configs and other things to make it at least acceptable you can't get a comparative result with a non VR mode. This is all I am saying.

 

Had no time to test it properly but on high preset had 60-74 fps in a quick mission, after I did FSR mode (which you recommended) plus Guru's Fenris Wolf's  best visual config option the same quick mission became a smooth 85-90 fps experience, so in the end it gives me some hope.

 

I am always using FPS Vr app, and you can't bottleneck a system like this. I know how we everyone loves this game but we also can just simply admit, that no matter how much money we gonna spend on our rig we won't get an even close performance to a high not an ultra end rig with a non VR mode. Only devs have answers for this.

 

I'll be honest, I've changed from 1080ti to 2080ti and now to 3090 not because I actually needed but because I always wanted to get that amazing experience from this game in VR but it still did not happen. Just wishing here, as to a 'falling star ?', that one day we could get a great instead of an average experience from this game in VR. As this is still one of the best games in my list.

 

Special thanks to @SCG_Fenris_Wolf for everything he's done for me with my VR experience during all this time.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Boundless_I

[C6_lefuneste]

Do not forget that VRSS is lowering game rendering resolution, so if you go below HMD native resolution you will loose details than post oversampling+ sharpen will not be able to create....So this should be seen as a smart SS, but you should not use it to have better fps than without SS.

Edited August 13, 2021 by c6_lefuneste

[Boundless_I]

3 minutes ago, c6_lefuneste said:

Do not forget that VRSS is lowering game rendering resolution, so if you go below HMD native resolution you will loose details than post oversampling+ sharpen will not be able to create....So this should be seen as a smart SS, but you should not use it to have better fps than without SS.

Using with 100% ss as by instructions here. 

 

On 8/11/2021 at 4:29 PM, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

You should be able to get pretty good VR performance with a recent high end system.   I am not familiar with the 8700K CPU (or Odyssey+) so am writing somewhat generically, I get pretty good VR results with the HP Reverb G2.   I have a Ryzen 5800x and a MSI RTX Gaming Trio X and very seldom drop below 80 fps in complex scenario's. Run IL2 at Ultra setting with MSAA x2 and 100% SS but with shadow and cloud on medium with no reprojection. 

Edit: Referring to single player fps performance, have not graduated to multiplayer yet.

 

Can get 85 fps average in the Syn Vander VR2 benchmark as well.

 

I would expect that your GPU has much more overclocking ability than mine which is power restricted to 370W. My suspicion is that you are CPU bound and that your GPU is only running at 80% capacity or so.   

 

fpsVR should give you a good indication if your CPU is not able to supply enough data for your GPU to run at what it is capable of delivering.  

 

I got a 10 - 15% IPC (and corresponding IL2 fps) gain when I gave up on my 10th Gen Intel CPU and changed over to the Ryzen CPU.

 

Edit 2: just looked up the resolution of the Odyssey plus and noting that the Reverb G2 is much higher resolution would guess that your PC has some un-resolved configuration or software issue.

 

 

That's the thing, I am not interested too much in a single player, as in there I had no problem with a 2080 ti and a 2080 super same waterforce edition with my Odyssey+ running with pretty good settings, sorry but won't remember them now, but when same settings are in a multiplayer mode, that is completely different thing. Specially as I have to play with a ping of 250-400 from Australia on WOL server for example.

 

This is why I've bought those scripted campaigns so I could fly at least there with a good visuals and FPS. You have to try multiplayer and tell me about your experience with a 30+ people server. Thanks

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

2 hours ago, Boundless_I said:

I was referring to non VR mode where with the same system you can go for 144+ FPS. 

 

If you want your game to look like s...t than you can get 90hz of your reverb G2 or whatever, what I am saying is that without twitching things in configs and other things to make it at least acceptable you can't get a comparative result with a non VR mode. This is all I am saying.

 

Had no time to test it properly but on high preset had 60-74 fps in a quick mission, after I did FSR mode (which you recommended) plus Guru's Fenris Wolf's  best visual config option the same quick mission became a smooth 85-90 fps experience, so in the end it gives me some hope.

 

I am always using FPS Vr app, and you can't bottleneck a system like this. I know how we everyone loves this game but we also can just simply admit, that no matter how much money we gonna spend on our rig we won't get an even close performance to a high not an ultra end rig with a non VR mode. Only devs have answers for this.

 

I'll be honest, I've changed from 1080ti to 2080ti and now to 3090 not because I actually needed but because I always wanted to get that amazing experience from this game in VR but it still did not happen. Just wishing here, as to a 'falling star ?', that one day we could get a great instead of an average experience from this game in VR. As this is still one of the best games in my list.

 

Special thanks to @SCG_Fenris_Wolf for everything he's done for me with my VR experience during all this time.

 

Cannot comment on multiplayer fps and wish I had used the Australian IL2 server that someone went to a lot of effort to setup, a couple of years ago. Very few people used it and I believe it is now closed. Oz is a great place to live but nothing can address the latency we are going to cop in flying on a European or U.S. based Server. Network packets cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

 

With regard to 144+ on a monitor you are not comparing eggs with eggs and it is an unfair example. I have a roughly 3k resolution (3440 x 1440) monitor and can  easily crack 144 Hz, with IL2 ultra settings, but the Reverb G2, at 100% SS, is pushing out  a massive number of pixels in comparison.  Roughly 4 time as many pixels in fact. So do not think we can blame the IL2 developers for that.

 

il2 is pretty much a single thread game and it does suffer accordingly with 9th and 10th Gen intel CPU's at high display (4K+) resolutions. That is why I bit the bullet and changed to a 5800x that can do better job of running single threaded tasks. The 11th Gen intel CPU's may have caught up in single threaded performance but I have been too lazy to investigate (and need to stop spending money on computer stuff anyway).

 

With fpsVR, in single player campaigns etc, you want to see CPU and GPU utilisation both at 90% plus.  If you are not getting those type of utilisation figures, from your CPU or GPU, you have a bottleneck. Could be CPU generation IPC, memory access speed issue or both. My CPU and GPU are both typically reported as running at 97% plus with fpsVR

 

Multiplayer to a high latency overseas server would bring a raft of other considerations that I have not yet had to face.

 

Agree that even with the latest gen computer hardware, when using the G2, compromises still need to be made with IL2 graphic settings. Still, I am very pleased with the generation improvements and display quality going from a Rift S to the HP G2. it is a big step in the right direction.

[Boundless_I]

3 hours ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

 

Cannot comment on multiplayer fps and wish I had used the Australian IL2 server that someone went to a lot of effort to setup, a couple of years ago. Very few people used it and I believe it is now closed. Oz is a great place to live but nothing can address the latency we are going to cop in flying on a European or U.S. based Server. Network packets cannot travel faster than the speed of light.

 

With regard to 144+ on a monitor you are not comparing eggs with eggs and it is an unfair example. I have a roughly 3k resolution (3440 x 1440) monitor and can  easily crack 144 Hz, with IL2 ultra settings, but the Reverb G2, at 100% SS, is pushing out  a massive number of pixels in comparison.  Roughly 4 time as many pixels in fact. So do not think we can blame the IL2 developers for that.

 

il2 is pretty much a single thread game and it does suffer accordingly with 9th and 10th Gen intel CPU's at high display (4K+) resolutions. That is why I bit the bullet and changed to a 5800x that can do better job of running single threaded tasks. The 11th Gen intel CPU's may have caught up in single threaded performance but I have been too lazy to investigate (and need to stop spending money on computer stuff anyway).

 

With fpsVR, in single player campaigns etc, you want to see CPU and GPU utilisation both at 90% plus.  If you are not getting those type of utilisation figures, from your CPU or GPU, you have a bottleneck. Could be CPU generation IPC, memory access speed issue or both. My CPU and GPU are both typically reported as running at 97% plus with fpsVR

 

Multiplayer to a high latency overseas server would bring a raft of other considerations that I have not yet had to face.

 

Agree that even with the latest gen computer hardware, when using the G2, compromises still need to be made with IL2 graphic settings. Still, I am very pleased with the generation improvements and display quality going from a Rift S to the HP G2. it is a big step in the right direction.

Agree with you on everything.

 

My cpu never comes to 90% while the gpu does. I always thought the reason is that he game is not using all the cores that is why cpu utilisation sits at 60-70%. Can I fix it somehow? What can I do in this case? Any suggestions? 

[SCG_motoadve]

7 hours ago, Boundless_I said:

I've changed from 1080ti to 2080ti and now to 3090 not because I actually needed but because I always wanted to get that amazing experience from this game in VR

This exactly the same path I followed, thinking the 3090 will make things nice and smooth in VR in IL2.

I even upgraded to a full new PC with an i9 10900K  running at 5.3Gz

Il2 cannot be run at full best graphics in VR, not even close, I had to compromise, no mirrors, no AA, medium shadows, normal reflections, clouds on high, among other settings.

Still there is some ghosting with heavy clouds.

Edited August 13, 2021 by SCG_motoadve
spell

[Boundless_I]

26 minutes ago, SCG_motoadve said:

This exactly the same path I followed, thinking the 3090 will make things nice and smooth in VR in IL2.

I even upgraded to a full new PC with an i9 10900K  running at 5.3Gz

Il2 cannot be run at full best graphics in VR, not even close, I had to compromise, no mirrors, no AA, medium shadows, normal reflections, clouds on high, among other settings.

Still there is some ghosting with heavy clouds.

Exactly, well, at least I am not alone in this 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

7 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

This exactly the same path I followed, thinking the 3090 will make things nice and smooth in VR in IL2.

I even upgraded to a full new PC with an i9 10900K  running at 5.3Gz

Il2 cannot be run at full best graphics in VR, not even close, I had to compromise, no mirrors, no AA, medium shadows, normal reflections, clouds on high, among other settings.

Still there is some ghosting with heavy clouds.

Less than 2x 2500x2500 (which is 5000x2500), then things change. It's that the game gets increasingly more demanding at high resolutions, especially clouds and shadows. 2x 3500x3500 at 90Hz is almost 8K, but at 90Hz. VRSS or AMD's FSR are basically a requirement at this point. There's nothing that can run IL-2 at max settings at these resolutions, because it's the game and it's technologies itself that isn't made for such ultra high resolutions.

 

With that PC you can run the game at max settings and the previous resolutions that you used before, like 2200x2200 in the Reverb G1's. Both G2 and VP2 need to be tuned down for this game, and/or see use of AMD's FSR (works for Nvidia cards), it's in these forums too.

 

Have you tried FSR yet guys? 

[SCG_motoadve]

7 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Have you tried FSR yet guys? 

Haven't tried this, what is it?

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

13 hours ago, SCG_motoadve said:

Haven't tried this, what is it?

Hi, it's this:

 

 

 

 

[SCG_motoadve]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Hi, it's this:

 

 

 

 

Already have this, you helped me configure it.

[Boundless_I]

On 8/14/2021 at 6:49 AM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Less than 2x 2500x2500 (which is 5000x2500), then things change. It's that the game gets increasingly more demanding at high resolutions, especially clouds and shadows. 2x 3500x3500 at 90Hz is almost 8K, but at 90Hz. VRSS or AMD's FSR are basically a requirement at this point. There's nothing that can run IL-2 at max settings at these resolutions, because it's the game and it's technologies itself that isn't made for such ultra high resolutions.

 

With that PC you can run the game at max settings and the previous resolutions that you used before, like 2200x2200 in the Reverb G1's. Both G2 and VP2 need to be tuned down for this game, and/or see use of AMD's FSR (works for Nvidia cards), it's in these forums too.

 

Have you tried FSR yet guys? 

Hi everyone, So today finally got some time to test properly the multiplayer on Finnish Server with around 30-70 people on it. I did FSR mode and I also did best Absolute Quality VR settings in Reverb G2. FPS never drops below 55 which is ok but I thought @SCG_Fenris_Wolf you said that it will stay at 45FPS which will make it a smooth experience, but instead it is jumping up and down all the time which makes it a bit rough sometimes. I was wondering if it is something to do with FpsVr app, as it takes over on some of the settings from Steam VR (I had a different SS in Steam VR and FPS VR app and the game was using FPS Vr's settings and not Steam VR's). Do I have to do something in an app itself?

 

The other thing which is bothering me, is that GPU utilisation through this app is showing 90% average but the CPU sits on 15-35%. As @RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said before, the CPU utilisation suppose to be much better, so how can I do it? Do I need to change something in BIOS or simply reinstall Windows? NVIDIA control panel?  Any suggestions? Thanks

Edited August 16, 2021 by Boundless_I

[RAAF492SQNOz_Steve]

3 hours ago, Boundless_I said:

Hi everyone, So today finally got some time to test properly the multiplayer on Finnish Server with around 30-70 people on it. I did FSR mode and I also did best Absolute Quality VR settings in Reverb G2. FPS never drops below 55 which is ok but I thought @SCG_Fenris_Wolf you said that it will stay at 45FPS which will make it a smooth experience, but instead it is jumping up and down all the time which makes it a bit rough sometimes. I was wondering if it is something to do with FpsVr app, as it takes over on some of the settings from Steam VR (I had a different SS in Steam VR and FPS VR app and the game was using FPS Vr's settings and not Steam VR's). Do I have to do something in an app itself?

 

The other thing which is bothering me, is that GPU utilisation through this app is showing 90% average but the CPU sits on 15-35%. As @RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said before, the CPU utilisation suppose to be much better, so how can I do it? Do I need to change something in BIOS or simply reinstall Windows? NVIDIA control panel?  Any suggestions? Thanks

Hi Boundless_I,

I owe you a apology as I wrote my comments from memory, should not have trusted it.

What I should have referred to was average fps. I have just spent a fruitless hour trying to get a screen capture, from my PC, to show it but have had to just get a random screen capture off the web instead.................. 

 

Both the FPS (for GPU) and Average FPS (CPU) should be as close to 90 as possible (in my case GPU = 90 and CPU about 87). Figures can vary a bit in some scenario's

So................. was way off base with what I originally posted.

 

Re: If your average FPS are not close between the CPU and GPU (or both are low, given that your 3090 that should be knocking on the door of 90 fps) you have a bottleneck i.e. CPU/GPU mismatch. 

 

The only way I was able to get them close together (and both above 80 fps) was to give up on my i10700k intel CPU and Mobo and swap to the Ryzen 5800x.

 

Got a 12 (average) fps improvement in the SYN_Vander Benchmark VR2 test, measured with Fraps.  Going from the intel CPU to the Ryzen did not allow me to max out all graphics settings but it did allow me a much smoother VR flying experience at my preferred graphics settings (or graphics settings compromises).

 

Have not done any multi-player flying so do not know what impact high latencies will have on fpsVR results.

[Boundless_I]

1 hour ago, RAAF492SQNOz_Steve said:

Hi Boundless_I,

I owe you a apology as I wrote my comments from memory, should not have trusted it.

What I should have referred to was average fps. I have just spent a fruitless hour trying to get a screen capture, from my PC, to show it but have had to just get a random screen capture off the web instead.................. 

 

Both the FPS (for GPU) and Average FPS (CPU) should be as close to 90 as possible (in my case GPU = 90 and CPU about 87). Figures can vary a bit in some scenario's

So................. was way off base with what I originally posted.

 

Re: If your average FPS are not close between the CPU and GPU (or both are low, given that your 3090 that should be knocking on the door of 90 fps) you have a bottleneck i.e. CPU/GPU mismatch. 

 

The only way I was able to get them close together (and both above 80 fps) was to give up on my i10700k intel CPU and Mobo and swap to the Ryzen 5800x.

 

Got a 12 (average) fps improvement in the SYN_Vander Benchmark VR2 test, measured with Fraps.  Going from the intel CPU to the Ryzen did not allow me to max out all graphics settings but it did allow me a much smoother VR flying experience at my preferred graphics settings (or graphics settings compromises).

 

Have not done any multi-player flying so do not know what impact high latencies will have on fpsVR results.

No worries, but I still think there is no such a thing as a CPU FPS in this app. I believe that the FPS is your recent one and an Average FPS is an average with all your lows and highs. Might be wrong though. Thanks for your time anyway

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Different systems, different results.

 

If your system goes below 45fps at the settings, there's a bottleneck. fpsVR gives a rough idea, but doesn't measure CPU threads correctly especially for Intel CPUs in some circumstances, as the thread seemed to jump a lot there - from my experience. With my 5900X, it mostly stayed on one boosted thread, and the AMD CPU also switches much better - without the hickups.

 

So, rule:

Turn resolution down, see if game runs fluently at 90Hz. Then there's no CPU bottleneck.

Then turn resolution up, until you hit around 20ms (while using motion smoothing)...

 

 

Also, your problems with resolutions, I don't know much about I'm afraid. I only change resolution in one single instance, as a rule of thumb, and not across multiple applications. That just invites confusion of the highest order.

[Boundless_I]

1 hour ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Different systems, different results.

 

If your system goes below 45fps at the settings, there's a bottleneck. fpsVR gives a rough idea, but doesn't measure CPU threads correctly especially for Intel CPUs in some circumstances, as the thread seemed to jump a lot there - from my experience. With my 5900X, it mostly stayed on one boosted thread, and the AMD CPU also switches much better - without the hickups.

 

So, rule:

Turn resolution down, see if game runs fluently at 90Hz. Then there's no CPU bottleneck.

Then turn resolution up, until you hit around 20ms (while using motion smoothing)...

 

 

Also, your problems with resolutions, I don't know much about I'm afraid. I only change resolution in one single instance, as a rule of thumb, and not across multiple applications. That just invites confusion of the highest order.

It never goes below 50 Fps, no matter how much stuff is happening around. I just thought that it will freeze my fps at 45 for all the time, probably misunderstood you.

 

Also, could you tell me please, to properly turn on FSR, do I need just to copy 2 files into proper game folder or is there something else that I have to do. Cause I did copy those 2 files(forgot the names) into the game and even changed the level of sharpening to 0.7.

 

Btw, next thing to do is your mod for checking six. Have to try it out as I am still missing Lefuneste's mod badly.