An unsuccessful day in the ME

[Jaegermeister]

So it’s been a very frustrating day of working in the Mission Editor. I have been at it since 6:30 this morning and it’s now 9:49 pm and I have to say I am just as bad off as when I started this morning. I did take a break for a while around lunch time, so the day is not a total waste.

 

So here is the deal. I’m 17 missions in to a 25 mission campaign. The missions have all been tested and work just fine. They are all finished except that the ending of the missions was a little boring. I started going back and revising the landing and taxi logic to make the player plane land, taxi and follow directions to park in a certain area. After landing, a Checkzone trigger linked to the player plane fires a subtitle message to tell the player which way to go.This then activates the landing goal and message. So all was well and I added this in to about 5 missions.

 

Then during testing, it sometimes worked just fine, and then other times did not. I checked the links, double checked, tested and still no joy. I checked again and then redid everything from scratch and it worked again. Then I tested again and it stopped working. So how Dang hard can it be to get a simple Checkzone to just display a message when you taxi through it? Obviously next to impossible.

 

Just to clarify, the Checkzone triggers are set to “closer”, 35 meter cylinder, object linked to the Player plane, named “player”. They are targeted to a subtitle message. That’s it, nothing complicated. I have tried multiple versions wherein they are fired directly with an on plane landed link, an “on mission start” targeting a trigger timer, a complex trigger with an “on entered” trigger linked by a timer, and by direct links from waypoints. I get the same random results every way I try it. Sometimes it works, usually it doesn’t.

 

So after opening and closing the ME about 100 times and flying the landing pattern like 40 times, I discovered that the Checkzone linked to the Player aircraft (which is flight leader) is activated by the 3rd plane in the flight. It is physically linked to #1, the name is correct, the green link line is correct to the player aircraft, the ID number is correct, but it responds to a different aircraft.

 

To add insult to injury, when landing, flight lead (player) says number one requesting landing. Then number 2 says this is Woodbine flight, number 2 requesting landing clearance, like he’s the flight leader. So that brings up the question, what other Checkzone links are reading from another plane in the flight. If number 3 gets shot down, do all my links disappear on the way home, switch to number 2 maybe, or do they go back to working the way they are supposed to?

 

WTF!!!  I have to say at this point, I really don’t even want to go near the ME. I’m pretty aggravated to find out I wasted the whole day thinking I did something wrong and it’s just the links being stupid. Is the mission, and therefore all of the 17 missions I have spent 9 months working on corrupt? Is this a bug from the latest patch? Does anyone else have this issue? Does anyone even care? Will the next patch create more fun of this type? I don’t know.

 

Sorry for the rant, but if anyone has any ideas, by all means let me know. It’s not like I can’t duplicate the problem whenever I want, I’ve been doing it all day.

[Gambit21]

From your campaign mission, make a simple test mission, just 1 aircraft landing with your check zone logic.

You can post it if you want and I can take a look.

[Jaegermeister]

Thanks for the offer Gambit. It’s about 11:00 pm here so I will have to do that in the morning. The issue seems to be other AC in the flight “taking over” the Checkzones, so I think a single AC would have no issue. I’ll put together a simplified version, see what it does and post it. I doubt you would want to repeatedly fly the full version to test it.

 

Also I thought it might have to do with resaving missions and then changing which aircraft was “player”. I deleted all the rest of the flight, placed new AC, set new links, and reset all values from scratch. It worked for 1 test and then reverted to number 3 setting off checkzones that are physically linked to number 1

[Jaegermeister]

@Gambit21  here's the file. I think it is definitely a bug, I will wait until you get a chance to look at it before I do a bug report.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/giqabntbec1vrq6/Test_Mission.7z/file

 

I guess I will either have to figure out a different way to trigger taxi directions or give up on this "feature". I will move on to something else equally aggravating for now, like trying to figure out why the AI will taxi like it is supposed to on some of the missions, and it won't taxi on others with exactly the same settings, objects and airfield.

 

That's part two I guess.

 

Edit... The taxi thing was due to the wind. A strong crosswind makes them stop in the middle of the runway and despawn.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Habu]

4 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Edit... The taxi thing was due to the wind. A strong crosswind makes them stop in the middle of the runway and despawn.

Which plane and which wind settings ?

 

We already have that kind of problem with the JU52.

[Jaegermeister]

 

2 hours ago, Habu said:

Which plane and which wind settings ?

 

We already have that kind of problem with the JU52.

 

P-38 on winter Rhineland map with anything over 8 mps crosswind. I have not tested it with wind directly down runway 

[Gambit21]

I set wind to 0 in all missions to avoid issues.  

 

Not home yet so haven’t looked at the mission file.

[Jaegermeister]

No hurry, I punted on the checkzones and came up with another way to do it. It kind of makes sense that the checkzones can read to other planes in the flight, because if flight lead is killed, everything transfers to #2. It just shouldn’t do it when flight lead is still alive and kicking.

 

Take a look at the test mission, it’s interesting. The Checkzone randomly assigns to different aircraft in the flight.

[JimTM]

So it seems that object linking a checkzone to a formation leader does not work the way you expect. Try the following instead:

- Remove the object link from the checkzone.

- Set the Allies coalition to True in the checkzone.

- Trigger the checkzone with an OnPlaneLanded message from the leader and remove the existing target link to the checkzone.

- Target link the checkzone to a deactivate trigger and target link the deactivate trigger back to the checkzone.

Edited January 27, 2020 by JimTM

[Jaegermeister]

I’ll give that a try, thanks. Why do you suppose linking it to the flight leader gives random results?

[JimTM]

3 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

I’ll give that a try, thanks. Why do you suppose linking it to the flight leader gives random results?

 

I'm not really sure but I think it has to do with a change from a formation to individual planes once the land command is issued. Perhaps if you had a scenario with no land command, an airborne checkzone may detect the leader, but that's a guess.

Edited January 28, 2020 by JimTM

[Jaegermeister]

Next time I have a problem, I’m just sending you a pm right off the bat, so be ready....

[Gambit21]

OK...you good Jaeger?

I have some campaign/mission issues to sort.

 

For grins try a Complex Trigger.

I use those for my ground, after landing logic generally.

[JimTM]

2 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Next time I have a problem, I’m just sending you a pm right off the bat, so be ready....

 

It's better to post on the forum because:

• You'll get a faster response as someone with a potential answer may be browsing at the time.
• Your problem and the solution will be visible to others.
• You may see different solutions to one problem and be able to pick the one that works best for you.

[Habu]

6 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

 

P-38 on winter Rhineland map with anything over 8 mps crosswind. I have not tested it with wind directly down runway 

Thx, i will have a look on that except if Gambit check before.

[Jaegermeister]

On 1/27/2020 at 7:28 PM, Gambit21 said:

OK...you good Jaeger?

I have some campaign/mission issues to sort.

 

Yeah, I’m good... thanks for asking. I came back in from the ledge. I actually used a combination of On plane landed and complex triggers to do the same thing. That works for sure.

 

i think you refer to these things as “a real hair puller”

 

23 hours ago, JimTM said:

 

It's better to post on the forum because:

• You'll get a faster response as someone with a potential answer may be browsing at the time.
• Your problem and the solution will be visible to others.
• You may see different solutions to one problem and be able to pick the one that works best for you.

 

Yeah, I was just kidding about PM’ing you. I did look in your manual and thought about changing the Checkzone to coalition, but I thought, nah... that looks like it’s just for coops. Maybe you could make a note that results might be unreliable after landing. It seems like you guys with more experience in the ME already knew about this but I searched and didn’t really find anything. I did find a reference to wind making the Ju52 have taxiing issues so that’s how I figured that one out.

 

20 hours ago, Habu said:

Thx, i will have a look on that except if Gambit check before.

 

Thanks for checking, for now I just turned the wind down. It works correctly at 3 mps

 

Edit ... corrected Ju52 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

11 minutes ago, Jaegermeister said:

 

Yeah, I’m good... thanks for asking. I came back in from the ledge. I actually used a combination of On plane landed and complex triggers to do the same thing. That works for sure.

 

i think you refer to these things as “a real hair puller”

 

 

Yeah, I was just kidding about PM’ing you. I did look in your manual and thought about changing the Checkzone to coalition, but I thought, nah... that looks like it’s just for coops. Maybe you could make a note that results might be unreliable after landing. It seems like you guys with more experience in the ME already knew about this but I searched and didn’t really find anything. I did find a reference to wind making the JU57 have taxiing issues so that’s how I figured that one out.

 

 

Thanks for checking, for now I just turned the wind down. It works correctly at 3 mps 

 

Yeah been there.

I keep my hair very short so that I cant' get a good grip on it....essential with editor work.

 

 

[Jaegermeister]

Good thing I was on the first floor when I stepped off the ledge outside the window.

 

I don’t know that there is a faster way to do this but it takes a special kind of person to have this much patience. If I had a hat on, I would take it off to all of the Mission builders that get even a small scripted campaign done. BTW, it’s time for that kick in the butt I mentioned about 6 months ago... Where is the Hell Hawks campaign you have got us all looking forward to? I’m tired of making missions and could use a break to fly yours, so hurry up would you!

 

JK, take your time, but keep on plugging away.

[Gambit21]

Thanks for the kick! Almost done!

Just tweaking a few things then I'll give to testers within a week I think.

Right now they want to crash after firing rockets...which is firmly ensconced in the "REALLY?" category, especially at this late date.

 

It get's difficult around the finishing line/home stretch...an extra bit of motivation/drive is sorely needed at that point.

Burnout is a real danger. I have a project to get moving on directly after this as well.

[Jaegermeister]

Well, you’re clearly not going to give up so just take it a step at a time. You can bet that a lot of people will enjoy it when you are done. I don’t think you will make a fortune, but Jason sure seems like he’s looking forward to offering it up to the community.

 

i usually have problems right in the middle and then get rolling again towards the end when I get excited to see it finished.

 

Who do you send problems to when a tester needs testing?.. Other testers I guess. ?

[Habu]

17 hours ago, Jaegermeister said:

Thanks for checking, for now I just turned the wind down. It works correctly at 3 mps

 

Edit ... corrected Ju52 

I ran a test mission in sumer and winter and i can't reproduce it. I open your mission to be sur that i have the same setting and it works fine with 5 m/s.

 

I enclose my test mission in winter. Run it and give me the result.

 

PX_Test_P38_landing_taxing_Winter_v2.0.zip

[Jaegermeister]

8 hours ago, Habu said:

I ran a test mission in sumer and winter and i can't reproduce it. I open your mission to be sur that i have the same setting and it works fine with 5 m/s.

I enclose my test mission in winter. Run it and give me the result.

 

@Habu You are correct it works fine up to 7 m/s with crosswind. I ran it up to 8 m/s and taxi stops. It would appear 7 m/s is max wind usable. I updated test file and reposted, but it's really not a problem now that I know. It's probably designed in as being difficult to control.

PX_Test_P38_landing_taxing_Winter_v3.0.zip

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Gambit21]

I couldn’t get Jugs to land with a 4 or 5 mps cross wind - which is ridiculous.

[Jaegermeister]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

I couldn’t get Jugs to land with a 4 or 5 mps cross wind - which is ridiculous.

 

Yeah, that’s pretty low. With 8mps you have to crab in so I understand, but 4 shouldn’t be a problem. Did it get fixed?

[IckyATLAS]

I had the same issue. I have Three FW190 that taxi and arrive on the runway. There is a 35 mt CheckZone trigger set to Closer, and with object link to leader. And yes it fires when the leader is in but also to another plane from the flight that gets in. I use it to fire a Flare to signal takeOff.

I noticed this issue already some time ago and solved it by adding a counter set to 1 so that it will fire once for the leader and the it is finished.

It is not ideal if you want to use the same CheckZone trigger for multiple flight groups that will taxi and takeoff from the same runway in turns. You need to have one checkZone trigger per flight group. Less elegant but ok.

 

[Jaegermeister]

My problem was that it would not recognize the leader at all.

[Gambit21]

On 1/29/2020 at 7:57 PM, Jaegermeister said:

 Did it get fixed?

 

Not to my knowledge.

[Habu]

59 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Not to my knowledge.

Yes, i think so.

[Gambit21]

Just now, Habu said:

Yes, i think so.

 

I’ll run a test.

[IckyATLAS]

On 1/31/2020 at 4:56 AM, Jaegermeister said:

My problem was that it would not recognize the leader at all.

There is another way round, instead of using Check Area. You can use a proximity trigger between the Leader of your flight and an object set as a linked entity and properly positioned so that it will fire when the Leader will be at the right place. Because one unique proximity trigger will define a triggering perimeter as a circle on the ground and sphere in air, you must have two of these if you want to be more precise on the position of your plane on the runway. You can then use two Proximity triggers that fire into a Counter MCU, and when the counts are two you activate whatever action you wanted to do. The two proximity triggers depending on the position of two reference linked objects will create a circle intersecting and overlapping zone where if the leader plane enters both proximity triggers will fire.

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by IckyATLAS

[Jaegermeister]

7 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

There is another way round, instead of using Check Area. You can use a proximity trigger between the Leader of your flight and an object set as a linked entity and properly positioned so that it will fire when the Leader will be at the right place. Because one unique proximity trigger will define a triggering perimeter as a circle on the ground and sphere in air, you must have two of these if you want to be more precise on the position of your plane on the runway. You can then use two Proximity triggers that fire into a Counter MCU, and when the counts are two you activate whatever action you wanted to do. The two proximity triggers depending on the position of two reference linked objects will create a circle intersecting and overlapping zone where if the leader plane enters both proximity triggers will fire.

 

 

Seems a bit cumbersome for a linked set of 3-4 direction subtitles. I just went with a complex trigger “on object entered”. These are not enabled but are activated by “on plane landed” and a timer trigger. The only other thing I use them for is activating and deactivating attack area commands anyway.