Chopin Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 I'm learning the basics and have found IL-2 having a better environment (several PvP servers to choose from, faster iteration from ground to contact and start over, etc.). The career mode also feels fun enough and gets me emotionally attached. So I'm sinking some hours on IL-2 right now. For DCS, I like learning the details of the available modules. Taking off in Bf 109 or Spitfire feels like an achievement and the learnings from these two modules have significantly improved my take-off in other aircrafts. I like Project Overlord but the map feels quite a bit larger than the multiplayer servers on IL-2. For those of you who fly both IL-2 BoX and DCS, do you prefer one over the other for specific nature of flying? Or do you have a phase where you put more hours in one over the other and then switch?
SCG_motoadve Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 8 hours ago, ACG_Teddy said: I'm learning the basics and have found IL-2 having a better environment (several PvP servers to choose from, faster iteration from ground to contact and start over, etc.). The career mode also feels fun enough and gets me emotionally attached. So I'm sinking some hours on IL-2 right now. For DCS, I like learning the details of the available modules. Taking off in Bf 109 or Spitfire feels like an achievement and the learnings from these two modules have significantly improved my take-off in other aircrafts. I like Project Overlord but the map feels quite a bit larger than the multiplayer servers on IL-2. For those of you who fly both IL-2 BoX and DCS, do you prefer one over the other for specific nature of flying? Or do you have a phase where you put more hours in one over the other and then switch? Becoming a real pilot ruined Microsoft Flight Simulator for me, and becoming a real warbird pilot kind of ruined IL2 for me, when I switched to DCS it made me appreciate the dedication to authenticity DCS warbirds have and the detail in the DM. I can live with IL2 FMs, to me they are in 2nd place after DCS, and better than CLOD, DM in IL2 IMHO the planes feel too fragile and DM is not as detailed, I hope it gets updated one day. I love in IL2 Eastern front, the variety of planes, historical MP campaigns like TAW. For now only DCS WWII. 1
Aapje Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 @SCG_motoadve So the lesson is not to spend $4.5 million on a real P51. 2
Gambit21 Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 8 hours ago, ACG_Teddy said: I'm learning the basics and have found IL-2 having a better environment (several PvP servers to choose from, faster iteration from ground to contact and start over, etc.). The career mode also feels fun enough and gets me emotionally attached. So I'm sinking some hours on IL-2 right now. For DCS, I like learning the details of the available modules. Taking off in Bf 109 or Spitfire feels like an achievement and the learnings from these two modules have significantly improved my take-off in other aircrafts. I like Project Overlord but the map feels quite a bit larger than the multiplayer servers on IL-2. For those of you who fly both IL-2 BoX and DCS, do you prefer one over the other for specific nature of flying? Or do you have a phase where you put more hours in one over the other and then switch? IL2 is a good compliment to DCS for the sake of content if nothing else. 2
Dagwoodyt Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 9 hours ago, ACG_Teddy said: I'm learning the basics and have found IL-2 having a better environment (several PvP servers to choose from, faster iteration from ground to contact and start over, etc.). The career mode also feels fun enough and gets me emotionally attached. So I'm sinking some hours on IL-2 right now. For DCS, I like learning the details of the available modules. Taking off in Bf 109 or Spitfire feels like an achievement and the learnings from these two modules have significantly improved my take-off in other aircrafts. I like Project Overlord but the map feels quite a bit larger than the multiplayer servers on IL-2. For those of you who fly both IL-2 BoX and DCS, do you prefer one over the other for specific nature of flying? Or do you have a phase where you put more hours in one over the other and then switch? I fly in VR. The DCS I-16 ruined my enjoyment of TO's and landings in Great Battles. The degree to which all control inputs need to be harmonized for success in that module really made me appreciate DCS. Setting up varying crosswind components adds to the challenge.?
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 (edited) 10 hours ago, ACG_Teddy said: For those of you who fly both IL-2 BoX and DCS, do you prefer one over the other for specific nature of flying? Or do you have a phase where you put more hours in one over the other and then switch? Ground handling, take off and landings are better modeled in Il2 GB than in DCS IMHO . More realistic. Many pilots say that sims can easily overkill that which is and feel natural in RL. Midair collision and crashes also are better modeled in Il2. Edited March 11, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk 1
DD_fruitbat Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: Ground handling, take off and landings are better modeled in Il2 GB than in DCS IMHO . More realistic. Every real pilot I've spoken to says the exact opposite. 1 5
SCG_motoadve Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: Ground handling, take off and landings are better modeled in Il2 GB than in DCS IMHO . More realistic. Many pilots say that sims can easily overkill that which is and feel natural in RL. Midair collision and crashes also are better modeled in Il2. I dont think many people will agree with you there, DCS is realistic ,that is DCS strength it is , its not overkill, is not that difficult. Wake turbulence is very well modelled too, just like the real thing. IL has much better pilot modelling for sure and more variety of planes, maps, more MP options, and historical matches etc, 2
Lusekofte Posted March 11, 2024 Posted March 11, 2024 2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: Ground handling, take off and landings are better modeled in Il2 GB than in DCS IMHO . More realistic. Many pilots say that sims can easily overkill that which is and feel natural in RL. Midair collision and crashes also are better modeled in Il2. You are doing it wrong. Search test on P 51 in both games done by a pilot flying that plane. None was exactly right but GB was totally off. Ground handling in DCS is quite easy if you take the time doing training mission for that in game. You see far more ground looping fighters in GB 3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said: I fly in VR. The DCS I-16 ruined my enjoyment of TO's and landings in Great Battles. The degree to which all control inputs need to be harmonized for success in that module really made me appreciate DCS. Setting up varying crosswind components adds to the challenge.? I 16 is by far the most fun piston in game. I do a lot of quick missions in it
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lusekofte said: You are doing it wrong. Search test on P 51 in both games done by a pilot flying that plane. None was exactly right but GB was totally off. Ground handling in DCS is quite easy if you take the time doing training mission for that in game. You see far more ground looping fighters in GB I don't say ground handling in DCS is hard for me or I'm doing it wrong. I don't know from where you take that idea, it's obvious you couldn't from what I wrote. From what I read , I think it was yours problem in the past. Good that you sorted it out. One bad modeld plane as you see that in p51 is not what define ground handling overall in the sim. The ground looping as you see more in GB can say that players don't know how handle the plane not that modeling looping is bad. Quite opposite sim without ground looping would be less realstic. Edited March 12, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
Lusekofte Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: I don't say ground handling in DCS is hard for me or I'm doing it wrong. I don't know from where you take that idea, it's obvious you couldn't from what I wrote. From what I read , I think it was yours problem in the past. Good that you sorted it out. One bad modeld plane as you see that in p51 is not what define ground handling overall in the sim. The ground looping as you see more in GB can say that players don't know how handle the plane not that modeling looping is bad. Quite opposite sim without ground looping would be less realstic. I honestly think ground handling is the thing no game is good at. GB is in particular over the top in that regard. Torque effect going wrong. And yes I had problems until I bite the bullet and took takeoff tutorials. JU 88 in GB I had to watch a YouTube video in order to be able to take off. GB got one thing right. The PE2 witch is said to be a brick to fly and land is pretty demanding in landing. You see I do not particular favour any of these games when it comes to ww2. I am a clod dude. And if anything clod might be the easiest game when it come to ground handeling. It might not be the most realistic in that regard. But it’s dm is unbeatable. Edited March 12, 2024 by Lusekofte
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Lusekofte said: I honestly think ground handling is the thing no game is good at. GB is in particular over the top in that regard. Torque effect going wrong. The forces acting on the airframe are well know , easy to put into equation, why is the case then. Torque is just one parameters acting during take off , there are more plus variety solutions apiled to reduce the effects on the airframe. IMHO there is no winner just subjective feeling what you think is better or worst. An Opinions we should all respect. Edited March 12, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
Lusekofte Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 (edited) 5 minutes ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: IMHO there is no winner just subjective feeling what you think is better or worst. An Opinions we should all respect. In this you are correct. I misread your initial post. Because I believed you had frustrations about ground handling in DCS. But honestly, it is a lot of comparing videos out there. And my impression is DCS come out of them better than GB. In my opinion in GB the main focus should be and are how opposing planes compare to each other. If they keep a historical level it is good enough. GB is an air battle simulator and DCS attempt to simulate every plane. One module cost the same as a map and 12 planes in GB. And that is telling a story Edited March 12, 2024 by Lusekofte
[CPT]Crunch Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 Funny there's not even a mention of the ground handling slider settings he was using, almost makes one wonder if there's an awareness all the DCS WWII planes and most of the non-WWII prop planes in general have both an adjustable ground handling and take off rudder assist features built in for the level of realism you want to deal with. Try setting them both all the way off since they're full on by default, than get back to us on that ground handling, and good luck. Your not going to get away with hamfisting those off the runway. IL-2 it's max power and roll with a little bit of rudder work, try that and see where you end up with full real settings in DCS, even with your tail wheel locked and a proper line up. 3
Lusekofte Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 I have no take off help. And find the ones I fly I 16 , mosquito, P47/51 and Spitfire pretty much easier than some of the planes in GB. As I said. Tutorials in DCS is worth looking at. If you treat DCS taildraggers as in GB you will have problems. I read several reports on P 47 pilots in air shows saying how difficult it can be to handle. And it make me think GB one goes on rails while DCS version is a lot easier than the real thing
Hanu Posted March 12, 2024 Posted March 12, 2024 Overall for me DCS WW2 birds feel almost like they have rubber bands put in control wires and/or standing on-a-stick. Feels like airflow is surely modeled, but just barely. On slow speeds or thin air the effect of control authority and airflow's centering effect (pardon me for un-exact terms) do not match each other; you can kick the plane into ridiculous positions way too easy but airflow however has minimalistic effect compared to how brutally you are still able to mistreat your plane; the controls should also be less effective. Surely, aerodynamic abilities at the time were not as good as now, so misbehaviour IS expected more easilly. You can mitigate this somewhat with response curves, that is just mitigating. FFB would also help, but not fix the feeling of inconsistency. More practice of course, but why, I come to think? It just does not feel worth the trouble. On he other hand for example wake turbulence is very nice. Playing with instruments is surely nice. Lots of good stuff, but as the flying itself does not feel rational (for me), Okayish more like. During several years I cannot tell how many times I have re-installed those birds just to disappoint again when trying again. Modern birds are completely different stuff in DCS. No gripes there. They mostly behave logically and "feel" right. Choppers too. Just my thoughts. Not trying to fuel the flames or start a war. But like supporting Husar that there are also people who do feel that GB succeeds in ww2 planes better than DCS. 1
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 13, 2024 Posted March 13, 2024 (edited) 15 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said: Funny there's not even a mention of the ground handling slider settings he was using He - me? Not funny, why one would mention that, don't see this as argument as both can turn on assist. Both sims do have flaws and are doing something better than other do, there is no winner. Btw I'm doing fine without helpers during take off. Edited March 13, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk
Dagwoodyt Posted March 13, 2024 Posted March 13, 2024 22 hours ago, [CPT]Crunch said: Try setting them both all the way off since they're full on by default I am not sure that is correct. For the Mossie I remember someone suggested on the Steam forum that the assist should default to zero and I believe that was actually done at the time. When I decided to get serious about learning the I-16, I set all curves to zero as well and still have them there. A nice feature of that module is the lack of trim settings so you are having to be on the rudder at all times. The flaps are useful to set AoA for landings.
Gambit21 Posted March 13, 2024 Posted March 13, 2024 11 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: …and are doing something better than other do, there is no winner. The equation has been rapidly growing less balanced in that regard. IL2 however will always have more content, more cohesive/complete scenarios. In the end if that is the only thing, it’s no small thing. I truly hope IL2 starts to introduce higher fidelity options for some aircraft. They can start with the MiG 3. 2
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 13, 2024 Posted March 13, 2024 27 minutes ago, Gambit21 said: I truly hope IL2 starts to introduce higher fidelity options for some aircraft. They can start with the MiG 3 What do you have in mind?
Gambit21 Posted March 14, 2024 Posted March 14, 2024 8 hours ago, 1PL-Husar-1Esk said: What do you have in mind? Higher res mesh/use of normal maps, multiple 4K maps, more systems modeled/more cockpit interaction. Basically higher fidelity all around. Doesn’t need to be DCS, but on the way to that. I think these optional, upgraded aircraft would sell if they chose the more popular ones for this treatment. 1
1PL-Husar-1Esk Posted March 14, 2024 Posted March 14, 2024 (edited) 18 hours ago, Gambit21 said: Higher res mesh/use of normal maps, multiple 4K maps, more systems modeled/more cockpit interaction. Basically higher fidelity all around. Doesn’t need to be DCS, but on the way to that. I think these optional, upgraded aircraft would sell if they chose the more popular ones for this treatment. I agree, the graphics could be better also more system and it's failures , besides that better immersion of flying like wind gusts, prop wash , more realistic turbulent air, additional in cockpit effects that convince us that we don't flying a toy plane - vibration, shaking. This what I saw for first time in promotion video from Heatblure F-4 Phantom II. Edited March 14, 2024 by 1PL-Husar-1Esk 1
Kapteeni Posted March 15, 2024 Posted March 15, 2024 If i could have as good maps as DCS and planes from 1l2 combined to 1 game, i woud sell my second kidney Also Mission editor is better in DCS. I just bought Normandy 2 map and Spitfire+Kurfurfst+ ww2 assets. I had to spend my other kidney to do that...DCS is better with imersion in low altidude, but IL has heaps of other things. Like mission generators, skins campains plus Tank crew, which was a sideproject that should have been free IMHO. Anyways, i enjoy both sims. BTW. Syria Map is amazing. And Normandy 2. It was like when i installed ORBX texturest to my MSFS X. Huge improvent to IL2 Normandy, which is great too. I have nothing to say about flight models and, so i just play for fun as a casual player.
Lusekofte Posted March 15, 2024 Posted March 15, 2024 One simple answer is. I would not do this if I had only DCS. I would not do this if I only had clod I would not spend many thousands on hardware if I had only GB. I would not touch a yoke or joystick if I had only MSFS Reason for me to stick with flightsims in general for 25 years. was interest in ww2 aviation. But none was able to keep my interest alone. When I was hooked on IL 2 ms cfs was my sidekick. They are all worth having installed. But only the lot of them made me invest this much money. 4
Lusekofte Posted March 16, 2024 Posted March 16, 2024 I think I finally can say there is nothing more for me to learn. I am full. I am facing a major threshold and start to leak out valuable knowledge about modules I actually can do. It is like if anything get pressed in something have to go. I suddenly got all this time to spend and started to finally learn some heavy sh** planes.
Dagwoodyt Posted March 16, 2024 Posted March 16, 2024 I just downloaded the DCS D9 on sale. The external model is sad compared to the GB version. Even on sale the DCS D9 seems overpriced. Any rationales for not refunding the DCS module would be appreciated. Thanks!
BOO Posted March 16, 2024 Posted March 16, 2024 3 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said: I just downloaded the DCS D9 on sale. The external model is sad compared to the GB version. Even on sale the DCS D9 seems overpriced. Any rationales for not refunding the DCS module would be appreciated. Thanks! er......to allow you to better appreciate that newer modules.......?
Dagwoodyt Posted March 16, 2024 Posted March 16, 2024 1 hour ago, BOO said: er......to allow you to better appreciate that newer modules.......? Of course that's why i'm asking ?
MiGCap Posted March 17, 2024 Posted March 17, 2024 12 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said: I just downloaded the DCS D9 on sale. The external model is sad compared to the GB version. Even on sale the DCS D9 seems overpriced. Any rationales for not refunding the DCS module would be appreciated. Thanks! https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3330251/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3330945/ https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3335043/ 1
Art-J Posted March 17, 2024 Posted March 17, 2024 Well, this summer DCS Dora will "celebrate" its 10th anniversary of release, with 3D model predating it probably another year at least. It does indeed show its age unfotunately, but with recent excellent complete engine sound rework and aforementioned Doughguy's custom skins (which blow anything ED texture artists produced out of the water IMO), there's still some fun to be had with this old girl. Plus, unlike Anton brick bucket, this one doesn't require Ph.D. diploma in energy management and group tactics to become competitive in . 1 1
MiGCap Posted March 17, 2024 Posted March 17, 2024 And it is the fastest WWII bird around in DCS. ? My favorite mount.
Lusekofte Posted March 18, 2024 Posted March 18, 2024 On 3/16/2024 at 6:07 PM, Dagwoodyt said: I just downloaded the DCS D9 on sale. The external model is sad compared to the GB version. Even on sale the DCS D9 seems overpriced. Any rationales for not refunding the DCS module would be appreciated. Thanks! Why did you not take the two weeks of testing before buying?
LLv34_Flanker Posted March 18, 2024 Posted March 18, 2024 S! Owning all WW2 modules and the associated asset pack for DCS. Will buy the La-7 too, just to support 3rd party modules. I-16 is a fun little buzzer to fly. Not to mention upcoming features like Vulkan and other performance enhancing items. So DCS is a keeper. Still resisting the urge to get F-4 Phantom?
Lusekofte Posted March 18, 2024 Posted March 18, 2024 10 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said: Still resisting the urge to get F-4 Phantom I bought it already. I think it’s gonna be a headache to learn though 1 1
LLv34_Flanker Posted March 18, 2024 Posted March 18, 2024 (edited) S! It is either Phantom or Helldivers 2. Choices choices?Or I just wait until summer and get both..but then I have a trip to Norway requiring funds too? Edited March 18, 2024 by LLv34_Flanker
BOO Posted March 18, 2024 Posted March 18, 2024 18 minutes ago, LLv34_Flanker said: Still resisting the urge to get F-4 Phantom? 7 minutes ago, Lusekofte said: I bought it already. I think it’s gonna be a headache to learn though I dont see what all the fuss is about..........he desperately lied knowing he'd just uninstalled DCS to make way for MSFS..........
nirvi Posted March 25, 2024 Posted March 25, 2024 (edited) Some kills from a 90min sortie on 4YA Project Overlord, flying the FW-190 A8 Drag & Bag a Mustang https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxH8ty4V7LBMhCSCD0Z2ijQRzZdGL75h3V?si=GrvQHI1d6SodkocL Edited March 26, 2024 by nirvi 2
Lusekofte Posted March 25, 2024 Posted March 25, 2024 @nirvi Great situational awareness. I can never do that 1
Dagwoodyt Posted March 25, 2024 Posted March 25, 2024 Ended up buying both FW190's during the sale. I just finished a nearly 30min. fight in an A8 v AI veteran Spitfire IX LF getting gradually shredded by the Spitfire. Takes over 3 min. to get enough separation to turn into the Spitfire with barely enough time to do so. Definitely have to do constant rudder management to keep straight line speed and be proficient with rolling once in range of the Spitfires guns. I survived because the AI Spitfire crashed while rolling. I suppose they do that to avoid overshoot, but several times i've seen them auger in that way. So thankful to have Tacview.
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