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Help! I want to try VR!!

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I've tried it only once--at a mall with an Occulus Something (or was it a Vive Something?). They had a bunch of VR setups.  I tried it with a high-end racing sim because they didn't have a flight sim setup.   While the 3-D effect was cool, I had a major issue with it.  There was a weird "thing" across the screen like viewing the game through a screen door.  I've heard some say nothing can be done about it, but it ultimately lowered my enjoyment, not fatally, but that was a big disappointment.  This wasn't my home setup, however.

 

At home I play IL2 Great Battles using a 4K monitor.  I play the sim not quite as high as 4K, more like 3K.  I have my settings on Ultra.  I get super fast frame rates and the sim is so pretty in the standard 2D.  I want to get VR for Christmas.  My question is this:  Will I see the "screen door" effect through the VR headgear?  How bad is the screen door viewing?  Is my four year old rig good enough? My rig: Core i7 5820 (six core), 16GB DDR4 2800MHz RAM, RTX 2080 (my only upgrade from the dual GTx 980s that came with it), Windows 7 (64Bit).   

 

Final question: What is the best VR set?  Not the best for my rig, the best period, for IL2 GB?  Thanks in advance.

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2 minutes ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Will I see the "screen door" effect through the VR headgear?

 

It all depends on the HMD that you choose to buy. The screen door effect is a known problem and newer devices have mitigated it to varying degrees.

 

4 minutes ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Is my four year old rig good enough?

 

The i7-5820K is decidedly low-end when it comes to VR due to its unimpressive single thread performance. You would probably find it lacking. Your GPU is strong, however.

 

9 minutes ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

What is the best VR set?  Not the best for my rig, the best period, for IL2 GB?  Thanks in advance.

 

It depends. Prices and availability vary significantly. There are many trade-offs with the features of the devices themselves. I'm not really familiar enough with the latest hardware to offer a detailed comparison.

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Do a search here on the best VR set, its been squeezed out many times. Think right now the HP, Steam, RiftS and Pimax do make the best VRsystems, while the Samsung Odyssey+ can be reachable if being on sales $250,-

 

But for running VR, you will need decent hardware think the RTX2080 is the only component that can be reused and I do not know if the win7 is the ideal OS for using VR. Also to get the CPU going smooth, it needs to be overclocked, my experience for il2 is that below 4,9Ghz is an no go area. 

 

  

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3 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

But for running VR, you will need decent hardware think the RTX2080 is the only component that can be reused and I do not know if the win7 is the ideal OS for using VR. Also to get the CPU going smooth, it needs to be overclocked, my experience for il2 is that below 4,9Ghz is an no go area. 

 

  

 

I somewhat dissagree with what Dutch2 has said.

 

I have a very low end GPU for VR, a GTX1060 6Gb... and an even worse CPU, An i5 6400 2.7Ghz. In one sense Dutch is correct in that to run VR, for example with the Oculus Rift, many people want to have a smooth 90 frames per second, and to run at that speed you need a CPU with a very good single core speed and overclocked to around 5Ghz, as well as super fast memory AND a top notch GPU.

 

But it is possible to run eg. Oculus Rift at 45 frames per second - using something called ASW - and have a very enjoyable experience. Because I don't have the processor speed (or GPU) needed to run at 90 fps, Oculus Rift automatically switches on ASW and runs at 45 fps, but for me this is fine, the image is smooth, only occasional stutters and the feeling of immersion is incredible, you'll never go back to 2d just you wait!

 

Like I said, I have a 2.7Ghz i5 6400, and I can maintain 45 fps at all times with 8 AI aircraft and quite high graphics settings. So that I can enjoy more AI in missions I have done a cheap processor upgrade (which I have yet to install) to an i5 6700k which I will give a mild overclock to 4.2Ghz or so.

 

In my opinion, there are a lot of VR players on this forum who insist on a smooth 90 fps and the necessary beast of a system to run the game, without mentioning that it will run just fine at half the framerate. This might put off new players who want to try VR.

 

Warm regards

 

Algy-Lacey

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1 hour ago, Algy-Lacey said:

 

I somewhat dissagree with what Dutch2 has said.

 

I have a very low end GPU for VR, a GTX1060 6Gb... and an even worse CPU, An i5 6400 2.7Ghz. In one sense Dutch is correct in that to run VR, for example with the Oculus Rift, many people want to have a smooth 90 frames per second, and to run at that speed you need a CPU with a very good single core speed and overclocked to around 5Ghz, as well as super fast memory AND a top notch GPU.

 

But it is possible to run eg. Oculus Rift at 45 frames per second - using something called ASW - and have a very enjoyable experience. Because I don't have the processor speed (or GPU) needed to run at 90 fps, Oculus Rift automatically switches on ASW and runs at 45 fps, but for me this is fine, the image is smooth, only occasional stutters and the feeling of immersion is incredible, you'll never go back to 2d just you wait!

 

Like I said, I have a 2.7Ghz i5 6400, and I can maintain 45 fps at all times with 8 AI aircraft and quite high graphics settings. So that I can enjoy more AI in missions I have done a cheap processor upgrade (which I have yet to install) to an i5 6700k which I will give a mild overclock to 4.2Ghz or so.

 

In my opinion, there are a lot of VR players on this forum who insist on a smooth 90 fps and the necessary beast of a system to run the game, without mentioning that it will run just fine at half the framerate. This might put off new players who want to try VR.

 

Warm regards

 

Algy-Lacey

Algy-Lacey, thank you very much for your explanation.  I can overclock my CPU safely to 4.5GHz, although it runs naturally at 3.3GHz, which according to you will also work. If IL2 GB runs fine with Win 7, why would adding VR not work?   

 

I have watched some reviews on YouTube of Occulus Rift S, Samsung Odyssey Plus, HTC Vive Pro.  I think my purchase decision is easy.  Vive Pro is the best but way too expensive; the Odyssey Plus has the anti-screen door effect capability but is incompatible without pain in the butt adjustments with Steam; the Occulus Rift S has the poorest onboard sound but is the best, dollar for dollar, of all three systems, for clarity and software compatibility, and the Rift S is a huge improvement over the original Rift. The Rift S does not require or come with something called light towers and has improved visual clarity (no weird tint, and less screen door effect).  I will buy the Occulus Rift S.  Anyway, I am mainly looking to use VR with IL2 GB and Project Cars 2. 

Edited by Trek64Trek64

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12 minutes ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Algy-Lacey, thank you very much for your explanation.  I can overclock my CPU safely to 4.5GHz, although it runs naturally at 3.3GHz, which according to you will also work. If IL2 GB runs fine with Win 7, why would adding VR not work?   

 

I have watched some reviews on YouTube of Occulus Rift S, Samsung Odyssey Plus, HTC Vive Pro.  I think my purchase decision is easy.  Vive Pro is the best but way too expensive; the Odyssey Plus has the anti-screen door effect capability but is incompatible without pain in the butt adjustments with Steam; the Occulus Rift S has the poorest onboard sound but is the best, dollar for dollar, of all three systems, for clarity and software compatibility, and the Rift S is a huge improvement over the original Rift. The Rift S does not require or come with something called light towers and has improved visual clarity (no weird tint, and less screen door effect).  I will buy the Occulus Rift S.  Anyway, I am mainly looking to use VR with IL2 GB and Project Cars 2. 

 

You're welcome 🙂

 

Il-2 famously doesn't best utilize multiple CPU cores... everything seems to operate on 1 processor core. If, as Mitthrawnuruodo suggests, your CPU has a low single core speed then that overclock to 4Ghz + seems like a wise idea if you want to play missions with large amounts of AI aircraft and ground units (which will put more strain on the CPU). That is why I have bought a better processor that I can overclock.

 

Your choice of Rift S is a good one in my opinion. I love my Rift CV1 and the Rift S is even better from what I have read.

 

See you in the skies!

 

Algy-Lacey

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I'm using a HP reverb and the resolution is close to 4K without screen door affect. the FOV is 110 which is good but not great. I really enjoy it.

My rig is i7 9700k 2080 rtx ti 32 gig ram.

There are sales on reverb from time to time I paid 550.00.

Read through the VR hardware forums and you'll be able to make a good decision.

VR in this game is a blast and I would't go back to a flat screen. Well worth the money for the enjoyment.

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1 hour ago, QB.Piranha said:

I'm using a HP reverb and the resolution is close to 4K without screen door affect. the FOV is 110 which is good but not great. I really enjoy it.

My rig is i7 9700k 2080 rtx ti 32 gig ram.

There are sales on reverb from time to time I paid 550.00.

Read through the VR hardware forums and you'll be able to make a good decision.

VR in this game is a blast and I would't go back to a flat screen. Well worth the money for the enjoyment.

Thank you.  I did not know about HP reverb.  I will have to Google it. 

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3 hours ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Algy-Lacey, thank you very much for your explanation.  I can overclock my CPU safely to 4.5GHz, although it runs naturally at 3.3GHz, which according to you will also work. If IL2 GB runs fine with Win 7, why would adding VR not work?   

 

I have watched some reviews on YouTube of Occulus Rift S, Samsung Odyssey Plus, HTC Vive Pro.  I think my purchase decision is easy.  Vive Pro is the best but way too expensive; the Odyssey Plus has the anti-screen door effect capability but is incompatible without pain in the butt adjustments with Steam; the Occulus Rift S has the poorest onboard sound but is the best, dollar for dollar, of all three systems, for clarity and software compatibility, and the Rift S is a huge improvement over the original Rift. The Rift S does not require or come with something called light towers and has improved visual clarity (no weird tint, and less screen door effect).  I will buy the Occulus Rift S.  Anyway, I am mainly looking to use VR with IL2 GB and Project Cars 2. 

 

You are going to want Win 10 for the Oculus device.

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Do some research on IPD though before you order a headset.

 

Didn´t really know about it and ordered a Rift S.

I have an IPD of ~70mm and although you can adjust the IPD for the Rift S over the software up to 72mm it doesn´t really help that much and a kinda large part of my FOV is blurry.

Problem is, there is no way of physically adjusting the lenses in the Rift S - so I´ll send it back.

Reverb also has fixed lenses and only a software solution for IPD.

 

If your IPD fits the supported range better, you shouldn´t have any problems though.

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9 minutes ago, 9./JG27golani79 said:

Do some research on IPD though before you order a headset.

 

Didn´t really know about it and ordered a Rift S.

I have an IPD of ~70mm and although you can adjust the IPD for the Rift S over the software up to 72mm it doesn´t really help that much and a kinda large part of my FOV is blurry.

Problem is, there is no way of physically adjusting the lenses in the Rift S - so I´ll send it back.

Reverb also has fixed lenses and only a software solution for IPD.

 

If your IPD fits the supported range better, you shouldn´t have any problems though.

 

With my Oculus Rift CV1 there is a slider that physically moves the lenses closer together or further apart...

What a step backwards for the Rift S

 

I have an Inter Pupil Distance of around 66mm on my Rift CV1 slider and I have quite wide eyes

Edited by Algy-Lacey
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Dburne has addressed what I see as a critical issue. I don't know how viable Win7 is as a VR platform. I was able to get a CV1 to run on that OS on a circa 2009 cpu and a gtx 980 but it was not an ideal setup and I did it only as an experiment. Would be helpful if responses made clear which OS's are being used.

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Fair comment Dagwoodyt

 

I run Windows 10 Home with all of the updates and security fixes up to date. Never tried Il-2 Great Battles on any other operating system. Trek64Trek64 I would suggest that you upgrade and get Windows 10.

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19 hours ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Is my four year old rig good enough? My rig: Core i7 5820 (six core), 16GB DDR4 2800MHz RAM, RTX 2080 (my only upgrade from the dual GTx 980s that came with it), Windows 7 (64Bit).

 

Your CPU is special. It is a 4-channel RAM CPU. I really want as much info from this processors for IL-2 VR.

 

You said you can run it at 4.5GHz. I would be very much interested if you could run the Remagen benchmark to test the performance is just monitor:

 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/56485-benchmark-for-cpuram-performance-remagen-4002/

 

I think your PC is quite OK for Rift-S, Valve Index or even HP REverb. And in any case you can always rely on the ASW techniques if you are below the 80fps or 90fps.

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I would suggest you upgrade to Win10, but the rig seems good enough for any headset.

 

The type of headset depends on if you value resolution or field of view highest. If it's resolution, I'd say go with a HP Reverb. It's got about the same FOV as the first Rift, but the amount of pixels crammed into that low field of view makes for a very clear high res image without any screen door.

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2 hours ago, Dagwoodyt said:

Dburne has addressed what I see as a critical issue. I don't know how viable Win7 is as a VR platform. I was able to get a CV1 to run on that OS on a circa 2009 cpu and a gtx 980 but it was not an ideal setup and I did it only as an experiment. Would be helpful if responses made clear which OS's are being used.

It is not viable.

 

He must get Win10.

21 hours ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

 

Final question: What is the best VR set?  Not the best for my rig, the best period, for IL2 GB?  Thanks in advance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8KSxnNcZZM

 

These.

 

Not released yet though, and expensive. The predecessors took a bit of tech affinity to set up, it's like buying a 500hp car. You kick it and don't maintain it, it'll punish you, it'll reward you if you screw around on it. Not pure Plug'N'Play. I doubt the new ones will be different.

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Yes, I am going to upgrade to Win 10 this week, before I go out and purchase Reverb.  One other question.  I don't understand this IPD.  Is that the distance between the nearest edges of your eyes or between the center of one eye to the center of the other?  What is the IPD required for Reverb?  If my IPD does not match Reverb, should I forget about this VR rig?

Edited by Trek64Trek64

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I use a Valve Index with an NTX 2070 and could not be happier. Screen door effect is trivial to the point of non existent, the comfort and wide field of view is delightful and I very much enjoy IL-2 in VR. The Valve just needs one base station when seated for IL-2 and does not require the hand controllers. It all just works. I did a lot of research ahead of my purchase and am very happy with it. I could not go back to a monitor for IL-2.

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Your IPD is the distance between the pupils. The average, and the absolute sweetspot on the Reverb is 63mm. It is usable within a good range at either side. So unless you have a very wide or narrow IPD you should be fine. You can input your IPD value into the WMR settings to have the virtual cameras match your IPD.

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On 12/15/2019 at 4:17 PM, Algy-Lacey said:

Fair comment Dagwoodyt

 

I run Windows 10 Home with all of the updates and security fixes up to date. Never tried Il-2 Great Battles on any other operating system. Trek64Trek64 I would suggest that you upgrade and get Windows 10.

I now have Windows 10.

On 12/16/2019 at 3:56 AM, kissklas said:

Your IPD is the distance between the pupils. The average, and the absolute sweetspot on the Reverb is 63mm. It is usable within a good range at either side. So unless you have a very wide or narrow IPD you should be fine. You can input your IPD value into the WMR settings to have the virtual cameras match your IPD.

Do you mean the distance between the nearest edge of each pupil, or the distance from the center of one pupil to the center of the other pupil?  

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On 12/15/2019 at 7:19 AM, Trek64Trek64 said:

...the Odyssey Plus has the anti-screen door effect capability but is incompatible without pain in the butt adjustments with Steam...

Just wanted to chime in that Odyssey+ takes about 20 minutes to get working one time only, and $25 worth of physical modifications to make it comfortable to wear for long periods. It is not incompatible. You'll end up tinkering with settings with any of these headsets far longer than that.

 

I am very content with my O+. If I ran into another $600 to throw at this thing, I'd get the HP Reverb.

 

I think for you, the hindrance to VR from win7 and your lowish cpu clock speed will far exceed any relative difference between the headsets you are looking at. Given your current rig, if my budget were $600, I'd personally throw $230 at the O+ for a headset, and the rest at upgrading to win10 and a newer processor (and maybe cooling option depending what you have) to achieve 5ghz cpu overclock. More budget than that, then better headset.

 

I can guarantee as long as you have the sufficient hardware and OS, you will be very, very happy with O+, Rift S, Index, Reverb, or Pimax.

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I went from an Odyssey+ to a Reverb. I had the Odyssey+ for 6 months and was quite happy with it *except* for the comfort factor - ended up buying a replacement for the face mask from VR Covers. Screen door was not noticeable to me. The Reverb is definitely quite a bit better than the Odyssey+ and I would highly recommend it if that is within your budget. 

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12 hours ago, 9./JG27golani79 said:

From center to center of the pupils

Thanks

There appears to be 2.75 inches from the center of one of my pupils to the center of the other.  According to the conversion table 2.75 inches is the 69.85mm.  Too big for any top VR?  I can't get the HP Reverb?  What do I do now?

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1 hour ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Thanks

There appears to be 2.75 inches from the center of one of my pupils to the center of the other.  According to the conversion table 2.75 inches is the 69.85mm.  Too big for any top VR?  I can't get the HP Reverb?  What do I do now?


You can still get the Reverb, but you may need to make some configuration changes in WMR and/or SteamVR for your specific IPD.

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53 minutes ago, QB.Creep said:


You can still get the Reverb, but you may need to make some configuration changes in WMR and/or SteamVR for your specific IPD.

Oh great.  Now I need to read up on WMR.  I assume the initials stand for Windows Mixed Reality?  I have no idea what it is, but I suppose the burden is on me to find out.  My God, I hope this is all worth it.  I hope VR knocks my socks off.

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It’s not hard at all to tweak the IPD setting. It’s a software setting with the Reverb whereas the Odyssey+ had a physical slider on the unit. For extreme IPD settings, I have read that you must change a registry setting. VR blew me away, I can’t go back to a monitor now for flight sims. To be honest, I don’t want to spend my video game time doing anything that isn’t a flight sim in VR hehe.

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The Rift S also has a software setting but it doesnt really help as you still look through the lenses outside the center so you'll always have a bigger area which is blurry.

 

If you wanna try the Reverb you should get it from a store where you can return it without any problems if it shouldnt suit you.

 

For me (IPD ~70mm) in the Rift S, even when I was able to Position it in a way that one eye was looking through the sweetspot, the other eye Just had a huge blurry part which really sucks.

 

Best would be to try it out.

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I agree with Golani, find a place where you can return it if it doesnt fit. ~70 is in the upper range. I've read people having issues around that IPD, but I so, so, so hope that it works and that you get that VR wow effect.

 

First time I tried the first Rift in IL-2 it was a severe downgrade in resolution, and even though there was a screen door I could look through it and not focus on it. I looped a Yak and nearly barfed 360 degrees. In a good way. It felt like a fourth wall had come down. When the Reverb hit, with nearly 4 times the resolution over the same FOV I was in heaven.

 

Bottom line is; try the Reverb, if it's not for you then try one with harware IPD adjustment. VR is the way forward regarding immersion. We're IN the damn cockpit, and it is damn fantastic. It even cured my car sickness IRL.

Edited by kissklas
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I've ordered a Quest now for the hardware adhustable IPD.

Will use it with Link then - I think this might be a good entrance level vr experience till I can get a better headset with hardware adjustable IPD range - which are quite expensive (looking at Index and Vive).

 

And maybe some new headset will come featuring this option while still being offered in mid-range prizing

 

 

Edited by 9./JG27golani79

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my ipd is 69

before i own a rift cv1 and now a pimax 5k+  with deluxe Audio strap which i bought  on eBay.

my pc specs see below, i am satisfied with it, because of field of view and the clarity i ok for me with the Right Settings in pitool.

but you also Need one basestation for il2

Edited by II/JG11ATLAN

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On 12/19/2019 at 4:58 PM, kissklas said:

I agree with Golani, find a place where you can return it if it doesnt fit. ~70 is in the upper range. I've read people having issues around that IPD, but I so, so, so hope that it works and that you get that VR wow effect.

 

First time I tried the first Rift in IL-2 it was a severe downgrade in resolution, and even though there was a screen door I could look through it and not focus on it. I looped a Yak and nearly barfed 360 degrees. In a good way. It felt like a fourth wall had come down. When the Reverb hit, with nearly 4 times the resolution over the same FOV I was in heaven.

 

Bottom line is; try the Reverb, if it's not for you then try one with harware IPD adjustment. VR is the way forward regarding immersion. We're IN the damn cockpit, and it is damn fantastic. It even cured my car sickness IRL.

Damn, I so want to try it.  I want to try the Reverb because I WILL notice the screen door effect with a different brand.  When I bought my new Jaguar, I had an option to have a heated windshield. Jaguar said I wouldn't notice the tiny squiggly lines in the windshield because I would be having too much fun driving.  I refused. This was the only option I did not get.  Later when my car went in for an oil change, I was given a loaner Jaguar to drive for the day.  This one had the heated windshield.  Well, I DID see the lines in the glass.  It drove me crazy.  So, I know I would notice screen door if it is there and it will bother me.  

 

But now I'm more worried about this IPD thing. There always seems to be something that will kill the fun.  I do remember putting on the VR headset (I don't remember which one it was) at the mall VR game room.  I notice the 3D effect, which allowed me to drive much better in Project Cars, the only sim they had with VR.  I also notice the screen door effect which I hated.  And unfortunately, I now realize I was suffering from this IPD thing because there were blurry areas around the perimeter.  At the time, which was a couple of years ago, I didn't understand why there were blurry areas.  Now I realize it was the IPD thing. Damn.  I have no idea where to buy this device in USA that will allow a person to return it just because they don't like it.

Edited by Trek64Trek64

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1 hour ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

Damn, I so want to try it.  I want to try the Reverb because I WILL notice the screen door effect with a different brand.  When I bought my new Jaguar, I had an option to have a heated windshield. Jaguar said I wouldn't notice the tiny squiggly lines in the windshield because I would be having too much fun driving.  I refused. This was the only option I did not get.  Later when my car went in for an oil change, I was given a loaner Jaguar to drive for the day.  This one had the heated windshield.  Well, I DID see the lines in the glass.  It drove me crazy.  So, I know I would notice screen door if it is there and it will bother me.  

 

But now I'm more worried about this IPD thing. There always seems to be something that will kill the fun.  I do remember putting on the VR headset (I don't remember which one it was) at the mall VR game room.  I notice the 3D effect, which allowed me to drive much better in Project Cars, the only sim they had with VR.  I also notice the screen door effect which I hated.  And unfortunately, I now realize I was suffering from this IPD thing because there were blurry areas around the perimeter.  At the time, which was a couple of years ago, I didn't understand why there were blurry areas.  Now I realize it was the IPD thing. Damn.  I have no idea where to buy this device in USA that will allow a person to return it just because they don't like it.

 

Amazon Prime.

Can return for replacement or refund within 30 days no problem. I think may need to be a Prime member for this return thing.

They have 4 Reverb Pros left in stock at this time.

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2 hours ago, dburne said:

 

Amazon Prime.

Can return for replacement or refund within 30 days no problem. I think may need to be a Prime member for this return thing.

They have 4 Reverb Pros left in stock at this time.

Thanks very much, dburne.  Yes, I have Amazon Prime.  I will check it out.  I now have Windows 10.  Hopefully, Amazon Prime is a better price than the HP website which lists the Reverb Pro for $649 USD.

Edited by Trek64Trek64

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9 hours ago, Trek64Trek64 said:

I now realize I was suffering from this IPD thing because there were blurry areas around the perimeter.  At the time, which was a couple of years ago, I didn't understand why there were blurry areas. 

 

Just a note. One thing is IPD issues, another SDE issues and another is Sweet Spot. IPD issues and Sweetspot issues are related to blurriness.

 

The IPD issues appear when your IPD doesn´t match with the IPD of the physical headset. They appear when you use both eyes. So they also causes blurry areas.

 

The SDE issues are just the pixel mesh. It happen with one or two eyes open.

 

The Sweet spot is about how good is the lens to focus the peripheral areas. It happen with one or two eyes. The Reverb (in my experience) has a bad sweetspot, worse than Rift-S. The best sweetspot is with the Index.

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8 hours ago, HullDown said:

How about an HTC vive pro?

 

I feel like that's pretty old tech compared to the Reverb and the Index.

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