P38 engine management

[Roover]

Hi guys.

 

Anyone of you might help me maybe. Can't manage engines in the P38. I freeze them all time.

 

Have you got any advises that could help me ?

 

I tried a few things, like lowering rpm to 2650, not throttling over 80%. Rads seems to be automatic so I have no control over them. Same thing for the turbos.

 

Anythig that may help.

 

Thanks.

 

 

[VSN_Razor]

Read the specifications, the limits are noted there.

 

I think it's

 

6X/3000 for 5 mins

54/3000 for 30 mins

44/2600 for unlimited

 

or something like this.

[Roover]

I'll check it out. Tks.

[Roover]

Well, after trying everything can't seem to find my problem.

 

Tried everything in the book, 40x/2600 rpm, manual rad (full open)... mixture 100%, 75%, 50%, auto prop, manual prop, turbo auto and manual name it...

 

Engines freeze and burn after 7 to 8 min. after take off (always the right engine first). Feather the right prop, lower rpm to 2200 on the left one, throttle back to 30 dive a bit to keep speed), full rad open, no joy. I see the coolant temp raise and can't lower it.

 

No problems whatsoever with all the set plane except the 38. Would really like to find my problem, really like that plane.

 

Check a lot of videos on youtube and can't find my problem.

 

Any help out there would be appreciated. What am I doing wrong ?

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

[RedKestrel]

6 minutes ago, Roover said:

Well, after trying everything can't seem to find my problem.

 

Tried everything in the book, 40x/2600 rpm, manual rad (full open)... mixture 100%, 75%, 50%, auto prop, manual prop, turbo auto and manual name it...

 

Engines freeze and burn after 7 to 8 min. after take off (always the right engine first). Feather the right prop, lower rpm to 2200 on the left one, throttle back to 30 dive a bit to keep speed), full rad open, no joy. I see the coolant temp raise and can't lower it.

 

No problems whatsoever with all the set plane except the 38. Would really like to find my problem, really like that plane.

 

Check a lot of videos on youtube and can't find my problem.

 

Any help out there would be appreciated. What am I doing wrong ?

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

Do you have the same issues with other two engine planes? Maybe your key bindings are only operating RPM and MAP for one engine, so one engine is running at max settings for 8 minutes and the other is working harder to keep your speed up, so it heats up too fast and burns out?

Maybe record a track and upload it to get a fresh pair of eyes on it. 

[216th_Jordan]

Does the P-38 have a separate oil cooler? What about mixture, could it be too lean?

[Jaegermeister]

As stated before make sure both engines are being controlled together.

Oil and Water radiators are automatic. I never touch them and have never had an issue. I tried to manually operate radiators but they are either full open or full closed.

Keep mixture on auto rich, not full rich. That is only if auto rich is not working.

The turbo is automatically controlled. 

Always increase engine rpm first, then manifold pressure (throttle).

Reduce throttle first, then RPM.

For takeoff or full combat power, set rpm to 3000 and max 54" manifold pressure. (red line on RPM gauge) You can accidentally run about 58-60" if you leave it at full throttle with turbos engaged.

For full prolonged power, 2600 rpm and 44" MP 

Normal cruise, 2600 rpm, 30-35" MP

Descent and Landing, 2600 rpm, 20" MP descent, 15" MP Landing

 

I have run these settings since the Lightning was released and only had issues if an engine or radiator was hit by AA fire. I have never hit the limit on military power in dogfights resulting in engine failure. If this does not correct your issue, you have a control mapping problem.

 

Yesterday I was chased by an enemy AC for about 5 minutes running at 3400 rpm and 54" MP and engines did not overheat. He gave up as I was pulling away slightly (FW 190 A5).

 

@Bremspropeller and @jackstalke

Edit... don’t know what I was thinking when I posted this. Descent rpm was all wrong and I have edited cruise settings slightly after flying a bunch of hours with no ill effects.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Jaegermeister

[Roover]

Thanks a lot for responding guys.

 

Really appreciate.

 

Not at home now but will record a track and post it in a few so it'll be a lot easier for you to understand.

 

And English is not my native language so sorry for any mistakes.

 

Never done it before but should be easy I guess.

 

Tks again.

 

 

 

[Art-J]

Blew my engines in -38 a couple of times even while doing some simple strafing runs or climbs on max continuous MAP and RPM settings. Turns out, it was always a case of oil overheating. Oil coolers are auto, but their efficiency is mediocre at anything but high speeds. Watch the temps on gauges, or even faster, visually check the cooler flaps every now and then, they can be easily seen on inner front parts of the nacelles.

[Bremspropeller]

Also make sure that whenever you move the trottles, move them smoothly and not too quickly. You can damage your engine (probaably by over-revving) by gunning your throttles, too.

 

Did the old Lindbergh power setting yesterday, as I found myself very low on fuel, coming back from a mission (something like 10 gallons 40km out). Used 23 and 1600. Worked pretty fine and would have made it,combined with a slight dive to increase airspeed during the last 20 km or so. Unfortunately, the map ended just before final approach.

 

I managed to have her fly at 230 ias at those settings, which isn't too bad at all.

[RFG_Hisl]

On 11/11/2019 at 6:21 PM, VSN_Razor said:

Read the specifications, the limits are noted there.

 

I think it's

 

6X/3000 for 5 mins

54/3000 for 30 mins

44/2600 for unlimited

 

or something like this.

54/3000 only for 15 min.

[Roover]

Good info in here guys.

 

Found out my problems. Bremspropeller you nailed it.

 

Moving throttle too fast (full mp and rpm), as in my case on take off gave me an oil system failure.

 

I didn't see the problem at first because I was flying with the hud off.

 

This plane is engines sensitive. Gonna have to fly it with care. 

 

And Art-J has got a good point too, those engines requires constant attention.

 

Thanks a lot guys for your feedback. You are of great help. Couldn't have found it by myself and God knows I tried.

 

See you all in the sky

[Bremspropeller]

@Jaegermeister thanks for the heads-up!

 

I seem to get away with 45.5-46MAP and 2700RPM on the gauges as continuous...

[Jaegermeister]

Yeah, it seems that you can ride the Allisons pretty hard and they don’t have any issues. I have not pushed the limit to see what will break it, but I have left it at full combat power for 3 or 4 minute with no ill effects. I just check to make sure the turbos don’t overrev and kick the MAP up over 50 or so.

[Lusekofte]

Well I cannot understand your problem. Does the needles on both engine show 44 and both on rpm 2600? If so you must found a way to switch off the radiators. I fly it constantly with those settings. It climbs like a homesick angel with that. 
what I cannot get with the p 38 is the low divespeed. 
do you fly with divebrakes on or flaps or undercarrage?

Edited January 6, 2020 by No.322_LuseKofte

[MasserME262]

I just tried it in a QMB in Kuban...

 

Holy Hell, the damned thing can have 4000 lbs of bombs under it and yet it climbs like a Me 163.

 

Sinking ships in Kuban is so fun like this lol

[AtomicP]

Old topic I know, sorry, but since I have the same problem I thought I'd recycle this thread.

 

I've been trying to do the Lightning Strikes campaign but lose the engines about 10 minutes into the flight, roughly over the target area. First the right then the left. In both cases the oil temp. rises above the working maximum. I run conservative throttle and RPM, so 40" manifold pressure, 2500 or less RPM. At take off I run the book 54" manifold after waiting for turbo to kick in, with 3000 RPM. I ease off after about a minute once in the air. Fuel is auto rich.

 

My theory is that I have a double bind somewhere but is there anything in the P-38 that could mess things up?

 

Cheers

[VSN_Razor]

4 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

 

 

My theory is that I have a double bind somewhere but is there anything in the P-38 that could mess things up?

 

 

Then why do you ask us? We can't see your keybinds... Just go and check them.

 

But no, if you fly it by the limits, I don't see a reason why the engines should stop...

Edited February 20, 2022 by VSN_Razor

[AtomicP]

Why do I ask here? Why not? Someone might have some suggestion that I missed.

 

It's possible I'm running too slow in a climb for too long and the coolers are not effective. I'll give it another shot and report back.

[SYN_Mugue]

Try leaning it out till it stops belching smoke? (For the record I've never had this problem.)

Hope it helps.

M.

[Art-J]

For what it's worth, excessive fuel in rich mixture cools down the engine (as long as it's still within acceptable mixture ratio, of course), so leaning out might make things worse.

 

P-38 oil coolers just seem to be doing a crappy job, at least as simulated in this sim, whenever airspeed is low even at conservative power settings.

[SYN_Mugue]

@Art-J,

You are not getting any disagreements from me. I have a fair understanding of how these motors operate.

I was just thinking of the things that I do in game while not suffering this overheating problem. Of coarse the real reason that I lean this bird is to remove the black smoke trails. It's already such a big target and flying around with big black lines pointing at me seems...unhelpful.

Your answer is likely the correct one. 'FLY FASTER.' And is the probable reason why it doesn't happen to me.

Sorry for any confusion.

Cheers.

 

[Drano]

I cruise it at 2600/44"/auto rich. Never had this happen at those settings for longer flights between way points.

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

I try to be conservative with the engines on the -38. I'm a sucker for the in game "tech tips" though.

 

Usually, I just use 85% RMP and 76% throttle through the majority of phases of flight. On take off, I use 85%-85% with mixture full rich and have no issues getting airborne or with overheating. I pretty much use 85%-76% through every phase of flight except when being engaged by fighters, or landing. As others have stated, I try to lean the engines until the black smoke stops rolling. I have my mixture on a rocker button on my TQ, so I take it back to where tech tips say "Auto Lean" and I try to keep it right where auto lean and auto rich meet. That way, I can climb/cruise with no black smoke, but can immediately bump it up to auto rich when I need combat power. Even when I'm dropping bombs or firing rockets at a ground target, I don't bother with combat power. Just stay fast, and if you think you're going too fast...you have dive brakes. As for air to air combat, I do my best, but I usually end up a smoking crater anyway. Ground targets are my favorite. I can pickle a bomb right through a ship's wheelhouse window.

 

Take this with a grain of salt though. I'm an idiot, and I'm probably not using it to it's full potential by not operating the engines right one the envelope of maximum performance. I would just rather save the high power settings for when I actually need them.

 

But.....I don't have blown engines. Just my $0.02.

[Art-J]

Cruising around forever with 44@2600, auto rich, is not a problem indeed. However, as soon as you start doing some quick lazy-eight-like strafing/rocket runs on the ground target (with resulting loss of average speed), only couple of these is enough to cook the oil and kill both engines. Unless you reduce power much more I guess, but then there's a risk of stalling this big heavy beast. Takes lots of fun away from using the -38 as a ground attack machine, compared to its other USAF brethren at least.

 

I guess you just always have to stay fast to keep the oil temps in green, even when doing the dirty work down low. Haven't investigated yet the safe minimum speed for that.

[AtomicP]

Thanks all for the suggestions. I tried again just now, keeping everything conservative, so around 40" MP, 2500 rpm and auto rich. Still the right, then the left engine fail after maybe five minutes. Coolant temp creeps up. Speed is between 200 and 250 mph in a slight climb. Only guess is too slow for the coolers to work properly. The campaign is carrying two bombs (500 lbs each I think) and most likely full fuel so fairly heavy at the start.

[Jaegermeister]

25 minutes ago, AtomicP said:

I tried again just now, keeping everything conservative, so around 40" MP, 2500 rpm and auto rich. Still the right, then the left engine fail after maybe five minutes... 

 

You are not being conservative at all...

 

Cruise settings are 2300 RPM at 30" of MP

 

 

Combat Power is 2600 RPM at 44" MP

 

 

You are running about 10" too high on your manifold pressure which is causing the overheating.

As previously stated, the radiators and oil coolers are on auto by default 

[AtomicP]

Where did you get that info. from? In the game specification page I get this:

 

So cruise 2600 rpm/44" manifold pressure.

Edited March 12, 2022 by AtomicP
follow up

[Jaegermeister]

You are correct, I was reading the line for auto lean mixture in the P-38 Pilot manual

 

 

I'll take a look at it and see if I get the same results. I haven't flown the Lightning in a while but when I did, I remember cruising to target with both needles on RPM and MP straight up. Maybe that's why I never had a problem.

[Jaegermeister]

I just ran a QMB mission on the Rheinland map. I set the RPM at 2600 and the throttle at 44". I made a 15 minute run to target and dropped 2x 1000 lbers, then returned for a rocket strafing pass. I returned to origin with mixture at 50% (just where black smoke stops) for 10 minutes on the same settings. I then made repeated strafing passes on a train at full military power - 3000 RPM at 54" - for another 5 minutes. 30 minute flight with full weapons load, no overheating, no engine failure.  

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's going on with your particular arrangement, because the Lightning seems to run just fine at the listed settings. 

[AtomicP]

I forgot to say, when I turned technochat on, as I pushed the throttles to begin my taxi out I got a red "oil system failure" message. It disappeared but I'm wondering if the engines were borked from the off.

[Jaegermeister]

You probably have random engine failure checked in your difficulty settings 

[BlitzPig_EL]

Also if you are starting with COLD, rather than warmed up engines and take off too soon you can damage things.

[AtomicP]

11 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

Also if you are starting with COLD, rather than warmed up engines and take off too soon you can damage things.

I narrowed it down to this. I had warmed up engines unticked for ages and it didn't really matter until this campaign. I was lulled into thinking everything was fine by two things: not having technochat on (I prefer guages) and watching the AI start from cold and flying with no problems. With technochat on I get the supercooled engine warning and then oil system failure when I push the throttle to take off power. I tried accelerating time on idle power to see if the engines warm up in any reasonable time frame but they don't seem to. So workaround will be ticking warmed up engines.

 

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Art-J]

I don't use warmed up option and technochat either. Not warming up other US planes properly doesn't seems to cause any issues, but maybe the 38 is the exception indeed. Thanks for the tip, will have to do some test flights to confirm.

[AtomicP]

I ran the mission again and had no issues with the warmed up engine ticked. The engine temps were in the green from the start. I guess the oil system is not properly operational at a cold (no warmed up ticked) start.

 

In the past when I've flown the P-38 the engine is running and the plane is on the runway so I've effectively avoided the issue until recently. It's a pain the AI get a free pass though.