Pilot rankings and style of play, Jasta 5

[HagarTheHorrible]

I hadn't realized that Jasta 5 flugpark collated stats and rankings, it was interesting to see though, when I found out about them last night.

I wonder, if I'd known about them, whether i would have played differently.

 

I flew up beside Fokker VII's a couple of times, last night, that had been in fights (the second with me) and were looking to escape home, the first occasion his engine quit (or he stopped it) so I flew along side him for a few seconds before heading off.  The second damaged Fokker made the mistake of heading in the wrong direction (West) after I'd left him so I re-engaged and shot him down, if he'd carried on East and home I'd have let him be. 

 

I was also shot down a couple of times (way more serious than the above, in my book) while trying to defend other players, attacking their attackers, even though I knew that I was about to be, or vulnerable to being engaged by another.  In fact that's not strictly true the second time I did rush to the rescue of another player but was set upon by a pair of DR1's, who duffed me up well and proper, aided by my joystick power cable coming adrift half way throught the fight, not that it really made much difference to the eventual outcome.

 

I might have thought twice about the odds if I had been considering "Pilot stats".  It seems dog fights might be a bit of a dog eat dog world when stats are involved !

 

Out of curiosity, does yanking the cord have any bearing on stats ?  I had a dirty little Fokker, who knew what he was about (he flew his aircraft to it's strengths) but when the tables turned, as much by luck rather than judgement, he started to head for home, before pulling the plug and vanishing. Dashed unsporting, if deliberate, I don't mind not getting a kill, it's more the attitude of the other player ( I stress, if deliberate).

Edited October 14, 2019 by HagarTheHorrible

[No.23_Triggers]

If I recall correctly, 'Yanking the cord' has an effect on a pilot's 'Fairplay Index', which will determine the number of points awarded for EVERY sortie. A pilot with 100% FairPlay will be awarded 100 points at the end of a sortie. Every disconnect bumps that down by 10% - so someone with 70% FairPlay will only get 70 additional points, etc. The FairPlay index can increase back to 100% over time if the pilot stops disconnecting. I realised this after some mid-air disconnects when the server was empty ?

 

The bigger penalty, I suppose, is the community opinion - we don't like Disconnecters  although, pilots that deliberately do it probably don't care what people think anyway. But hey, if the server gives you the kill then more bullets saved! 

 

I've started flying a little more 'seriously' now that the stats page is up and the server's developing nicely. At the moment I'm obsessed with getting my accuracy % up, and building a modest streak, of course  

Edited October 14, 2019 by US103_Larner
I can't spell

[KommanderKosmos]

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by KommanderKosmos

[HagarTheHorrible]

Well, that seems to about sum up FC !!!!

 

Players, being “Dorkish” for not engaging, when flying “most” aircraft, unless they have surprise or large tactical advantage, (usually, vastly, thwarted by voice comm’s and “Owl” neck), only to have the fight end, before it’s really even started,   YIPPEEEEE !  What fun.

 

It’s why, presumably, even with an ever increasing group of potential players the game struggles to attract increasing numbers of players on the multiplayer servers, despite the best efforts, of J5 Flugpark and mission creators.

 

I rather wonder what your thoughts would have been if you had been the SE pilot instead and found that the game was over before it had even really started, and it wasn’t necessarily an exclusive, one off, experience.

[J2_Trupobaw]

The SE pilot saw himself approached by German formation from the West, dragged them as long as possible, feigned an attack, rocketed past them when they were turning around and went straight for his lines without leaving a wing or four behind. Surviving 4 on 1s without enemy getting  your fragile wings us is very satisfying. (And flying in SE, he would be fool to get dragged into prolonged combat unless he held all the advantages...).

I love flying the SE, it keeps me reminded how mortal I am, and how I'm not allowed to take shortcuts.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Stats tend to be one of the most toxin-inducing aspects of online gaming.  Whether that's the case in this game or not is for others to decide-  but in the case of the SE pilot not taking a 4 on 1, that's just good strategy; and the way he did it was well-executed.

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

10 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Well, that seems to about sum up FC !!!!

 

Players, being “Dorkish” for not engaging, when flying “most” aircraft, unless they have surprise or large tactical advantage, (usually, vastly, thwarted by voice comm’s and “Owl” neck), only to have the fight end, before it’s really even started,   YIPPEEEEE !  What fun.

 

It’s why, presumably, even with an ever increasing group of potential players the game struggles to attract increasing numbers of players on the multiplayer servers, despite the best efforts, of J5 Flugpark and mission creators.

 

I rather wonder what your thoughts would have been if you had been the SE pilot instead and found that the game was over before it had even really started, and it wasn’t necessarily an exclusive, one off, experience.

 

I think the opposite.  It's good to see people flying smart and using the advantages that their particular aircraft confers.  When people fly like this it becomes more of a simulation, in that they are flying as if their virtual life matters.  If all somebody wants to do is yank and bank, and play quake, then finding an opponent who isn't willing to serve themselves up to your gank squad is bound to be frustrating, but tough s&(*t.   Thats what fast food servers are for.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, US63_SpadLivesMatter said:

Stats tend to be one of the most toxin-inducing aspects of online gaming.  

Sorry, but that just isn’t true. Stats are a great way to encourage more realistic behavior.  And some of the most toxic MP servers have no stats, so people do whatever the hell that they want.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

Trup has it kind of right.

 

Saw the formation (and knew they are also on comms together). The attack was not a feign as such. But just a cautious and ineffectual one which was not carried out from closer or pressed on with for not wanting to give away the sole advantage I had (the height). If I had lost that and got tangled with you guys would have been a goner. I’m also not much of a good shot with the SE5a.

 

Shot a flare to try and guide to the area the SPAD (Tally) that was also on comms and enroute the location. To even the numbers up a touch to add to the height advantage. Not to taunt and be a dork ffs what’s the point in that.

Was not running straight for lines either Trup but rather attempting to shadow until SPAD could arrive (though believe I lost sight of them a few times though). The SPAD then arrived. Discovered there was not much time remaining so we went ahead and attacked (was intending on just blowing through). SPAD got damaged on his attack.
 

If I remember correct.

 

Also this did not make my session satisfying. I was having some trouble spotting. I spent maybe two hours flying about and that was basically the only time I managed to spot the enemy. The first sortie had to be brought to an early end as while flying over Bapaume in an attempt to find someone the Archie jammed some of my controls (while at something like 13k).

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

There's nothing more realistic than chasing a wounded enemy all the way back to their aerodrome at an altitude of 12 meters and getting that sweet, sweet kill.

[HagarTheHorrible]

2 hours ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

 

I think the opposite.  It's good to see people flying smart and using the advantages that their particular aircraft confers.  When people fly like this it becomes more of a simulation, in that they are flying as if their virtual life matters.  If all somebody wants to do is yank and bank, and play quake, then finding an opponent who isn't willing to serve themselves up to your gank squad is bound to be frustrating, but tough s&(*t.   Thats what fast food servers are for.

 

 

Actually, I couldn't agree more.  Oliver88's tactics were spot on, with the exception that he should have targeted an Abatross rather than the VII, a bigger target with a larger possibility of self disassembly.  The problem is more that the type of combat shown isn't a whole bunch of fun, for either side, resulting in comments such as "Dork"  being levelled at  otherwise sensible, tactically aware pilots, who try and choose a time and place that might offer them their only chance or just fly away, possibly to try and team up, preferably with players on voice comm's

 

I have a lot of time for Oliver88, he's a good, fun, relaxed, TEAM PLAYER.

Edited August 11, 2020 by HagarTheHorrible

[76SQN-FatherTed]

23 hours ago, KommanderKosmos said:

 

Labelling someone a dork because they don't want to hang about to pad your stats is lame as.  Ditch the clown car and try again.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

4 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

Oliver88's tactics were spot on, with the exception that he should have targeted an Abatross rather than the VII, a bigger target with a larger possibility of self disassembly.

? would not go that far

another exception among many was not considering using the sun to my advantage

Edited August 12, 2020 by Oliver88

[RNAS10_Oliver]

21 hours ago, US63_SpadLivesMatter said:

There's nothing more realistic than chasing a wounded enemy all the way back to their aerodrome at an altitude of 12 meters and getting that sweet, sweet kill.

The opposite case results from stats from my perspective. Though you prob realise this and it’s just sarcasm.
 

Though this is at least assuming the one your chasing is not the sole enemy online. And assuming the stats your being mindful about is not just the basic total number shot down over all time with nothing else taken into account. But rather other things such as streaks, kills per death, kills per aircraft lost, score etc etc.

 

Because those also depend on ensuring you do not die or get captured. Not just shooting someone down.

 

And the longer you continue to chase them to their aerodrome the greater the chance that your then going to get engaged in turn. The weaker your chance to disengage (enemy reinforcements arrive keeping you pinned in the area) and the weaker your chance to get somewhere safe (stats wise) to ditch once your then beaten.

 

So rather than continue to chase them and make sure they crash better to leave them in the hope the damage you caused results in their crash/bailout while your withdrawing or whatever. I’m in a position of on balance being the victor but if I continue this chase am I in danger of turning into the loser, when he might end up crashing if I depart anyway, potential risk versus potential reward.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Oliver88

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

Oliver, your post illustrates something I think many of us overlook too often, or never learn in the first place:  that much of this game (arguably much of the most enjoyable aspects of it that bring the most satisfaction and success) is as much if not more played in our heads rather than on the screen.  S! to you!

[Tycoon]

8 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

  And some of the most toxic MP servers have no stats, so people do whatever the hell that they want.

The people that are going to be toxic and do what they want will do it in any server regardless of a stats page, especially some server specific website stat page.

8 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

Sorry, but that just isn’t true. Stats are a great way to encourage more realistic behavior.   

Yes, for some people.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Tycoon

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

The stats I would follow if we had them are the ones that show how many mission you helped win. That's the most realistic stat that should be followed. Always the bomber that gets screwed, Hell your gunner doesn't even get a kill, You set your gunner up to shoot the enemy and you get nothing, I'd have 100 times the kills I have now. So to me the stats are worthless. 

[ST_Catchov]

20 minutes ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

Hell your gunner doesn't even get a kill, You set your gunner up to shoot the enemy and you get nothing, I'd have 100 times the kills I have now.

 

Hell Thommo, have you STILL got that old weird guy farting around in the back seat! I told you to ditch him. Sabotage his harness and invert.

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, Tycoon said:

The people that are going to be toxic and do what they want will do it in any server regardless of a stats page

 

Which just proves my point.  Stats are definitely not the problem if they're done properly.  They should reward survival and not suicidal nonsense.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

8 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

The stats I would follow if we had them are the ones that show how many mission you helped win. That's the most realistic stat that should be followed. Always the bomber that gets screwed, Hell your gunner doesn't even get a kill, You set your gunner up to shoot the enemy and you get nothing, I'd have 100 times the kills I have now. So to me the stats are worthless. 

 

I was thinking about that last night also. I consider combination of that with the streaks would be most realistic. As without taking into account lives/aircrafts then suicide runs are feasible. And that would not be realistic, trying to adhere the mission but at the same time trying to remain alive would be most realistic. Your score does get influenced when your team wins the map. So winning the map is advantageous to your stats in that regard. Though as can see from my sortie below the reward is not much. And does not reward you because you did something specific to assist the team in winning, just that you were present when your team won.

 

But think that tracking whether "you helped to win" would be something impossible to track. There are somethings at sometimes that I imagine you could track/reward in some manner though such as shooting down an enemy recon while it over its assigned area, shooting down someone that damaged your recon bird not too long ago etc etc you get the drift.

 

 

The exception being recon tasks of course as doing those there can be no disputing that what you are doing is helping the team to achieve a win. They also require you to return home unscathed. So those have that sweet spot of trying to adhere to the mission but at the same time trying to remain alive. The bomber is also rewarded handsomely in terms of score for them, equivalent to having shot down six enemy fighters during one sortie. Maybe bit hard to achieve the objective unless aided though.

 

 

Is indeed a shame that the gunner does not net you anything, being credited with an assist would be suitable reward in such instances you would think.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Oliver88

[J99_Sizzlorr]

There is something in thepipeline for the J5 stats page that rewards staying alive. Unfortunatly as @Oliver88 puts it you are limited in what you can track and reward with the parser. You could however declare essential targets within a mission that have to be destroyed to get reward heavily with points in the parser as is done with the searchlights which are only used for this purpose in the mission. For the recon it makes sense to get back home to deliver the photo plates for the task to be successful, for an artillery spotter not so much. The when the enemy target got destroyed by artillery the mission is a success, even if the Artillery Spotter doesn't make it back to base.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

14 hours ago, ST_Catchov said:

 

Hell Thommo, have you STILL got that old weird guy farting around in the back seat! I told you to ditch him. Sabotage his harness and invert.

Who McGoun? No he was promoted to auxiliary pilot a few weeks ago, 

 

6 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

But think that tracking whether "you helped to win" would be something impossible to track.

They have it in the stats if one side won the mission so I can't see why not have it on your personal stats that you were on the winning side during the mission. A separate column maybe? 

 

 

7 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

The bomber is also rewarded handsomely in terms of score for them, equivalent to having shot down six enemy fighters during one sortie.

I had a 5 kill sortie and some factory plus a bridge once. Unfortunately one of the shot downed pilots jumped in a dr1 close to where I was and finished me off so I got just a few points plus my gunner got 4 of the kills and I got the only ai. Would have been a killer score in the game score. should be a time penalty when shot down on your side if you ask me.   

[Guest deleted@83466]

In Combat Box server and Wings of Liberty, you get a +25% bonus to your sorties if you are on the winning side ("Coalition Won Mission").  This is listed on the stats page right under the bonus you get for "Landed at Airfield".   Don't know what they do on the Jasta 5 stats, in CombatBox, if you die during a sortie, you get -75% points, so obviously your score is going to be pretty trivial if you don't come back alive, regardless of kills, ground targets, or bonuses.  In WoL, I think if you die or are captured, your score is actually multiplied by a big fat 0.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by SeaSerpent
corrected incorrect information

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

25% bonus for good landing, another 25% for winning side, base score for everything else.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

3 hours ago, NO.20_W_M_Thomson said:

They have it in the stats if one side won the mission so I can't see why not have it on your personal stats that you were on the winning side during the mission. A separate column maybe?  

?

 

Your personal stats do record that you were on the winning side as I said in the post you quoted. Being on the winning side can be and is already tracked, impacting the score gained for each sortie during mission.

But that just shows/rewards for having been present during the mission. Not showing/rewarding for actively doing something to assist the team achieve that win.

 

And rather it’s this latter part that tracking could be impossible. For example how do you track/reward that someone “helped win the mission” because they were escorting the recon aircraft back and forth resulting in no air combat as their presence discouraged the enemy from attacking. As another example how do you track that someone was enroute to attack the ammo dumps so that if someone then engages them (causing the bomber to run home) that person is rewarded for having defended that target.

 

Quote

Your score does get influenced when your team wins the map. So winning the map is advantageous to your stats in that regard. Though as can see from my sortie below the reward is not much. And does not reward you because you did something specific to assist the team in winning, just that you were present when your team won.

 

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Oliver88

[RNAS10_Oliver]

There is also a statistic on your pilot statistics page for win loss rate. Unsure how that's calculated and whether draws are taken account and etc. Not sure what the "ratio" statistic beneath that refers to either.

 

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

3 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

 For example how do you track/reward that someone “helped win the mission” because they were escorting the recon aircraft back and forth resulting in no air combat as their presence discouraged the enemy from attacking.

Too me every one is helping win the mission, be it stopping the enemy from doing their recon and bombing to the guys up high taking out the the birds of prey, If we all work together it's the team that wins.

2 hours ago, Oliver88 said:

There is also a statistic on your pilot statistics page for win loss rate. Unsure how that's calculated and whether draws are taken account and etc. Not sure what the "ratio" statistic beneath that refers to either.

 

I believe this is win loss when in a dog fight, But don't quote me on that. So with that example  it's 3.15 wins too every loss but again I could be wrong, maybe someone else could explain this more better. 

 

[J2_Drookasi]

The W/L - Win/Loss is the average of your victories against your losses. In the picture above it would mean that you are shot down 1 time for every 3.15 ground targets and enemy planes  you destroy.

 

The ratio is a number depicting if you are flying for the side that has numerical superiority or for the side with inferior numbers. If this number is over 1, e.g 1,05 then this pilot is usually flying for the side which is outnumbered. If the number is below 1 as here (0,96) this pilot is usually flying for the side outnumbering the other side.

[RNAS10_Oliver]

50 minutes ago, J2_Drookasi said:

The ratio is a number depicting if you are flying for the side that has numerical superiority or for the side with inferior numbers. If this number is over 1, e.g 1,05 then this pilot is usually flying for the side which is outnumbered. If the number is below 1 as here (0,96) this pilot is usually flying for the side outnumbering the other side.

That’s a surprise.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Geeesh I think my w/l is like .0005, Man I better stop bombing the enemy and just bomb our side. ?

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

@J2_Drookasi is correct. Ratio is:

 

If the parameter is greater than 1, the player usually plays in a smaller "team".

If the parameter is less than 1, the player usually plays in a larger "team".

Edited August 13, 2020 by J5_Baeumer

[KommanderKosmos]

On 8/11/2020 at 4:34 PM, =CfC=FatherTed said:

Labelling someone a dork because they don't want to hang about to pad your stats is lame as.  Ditch the clown car and try again.

You're right.  Actually he was doing what I would do.....sorta.  I should've said "jackwagon".  What you din't see is the part where we chased him for several minutes where he just ran away and did nothing.  Thanks for your input.  I'll be sure to not upset you again.  

Edited August 14, 2020 by KommanderKosmos

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

2 hours ago, KommanderKosmos said:

we chased him for several minutes

 

[76SQN-FatherTed]

5 hours ago, TommyTaco said:

You're right.  Actually he was doing what I would do.....sorta.  I should've said "jackwagon".  What you din't see is the part where we chased him for several minutes where he just ran away and did nothing.  Thanks for your input.  I'll be sure to not upset you again.  

You're welcome.  I'm not upset, just a bit bemused -  so, just to be clear, what is the acceptable behaviour one should  adopt when faced by four enemies?

[Tycoon]

27 minutes ago, =CfC=FatherTed said:

You're welcome.  I'm not upset, just a bit bemused -  so, just to be clear, what is the acceptable behaviour one should  adopt when faced by four enemies?

Dive right in guns blazing, try to take as many as you can with you then fill the chat with profanity about trash squads that only fly german and won't leave their lines, don't forget to tell them they have no life and if they saw you in real life they'd run like cowards.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

46 minutes ago, =CfC=FatherTed said:

You're welcome.  I'm not upset, just a bit bemused -  so, just to be clear, what is the acceptable behavior one should  adopt when faced by four enemies?

Fly a Bristol.

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:29 PM, Oliver88 said:

Trup has it kind of right.

 

 

Well I wasn't there, I pretty much said what I would be doing in your place :). Went for the contrast value, too, because even in less flattering description of what you did you do things right and control the situation. (Also, towards your own lines does not mean all the way behind them; it means you move where you have more control, not where opponents want you).

[Guest deleted@83466]

In RoF, Trupobaw used to respond to being bounced by pulling out his virtual pistol and shooting himself in the virtual crotch four times.  Don't listen to a word he says about tactics.

 

?

[Tycoon]

51 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

In RoF, Trupobaw used to respond to being bounced by pulling out his virtual pistol and shooting himself in the virtual crotch four times.  Don't listen to a word he says about tactics.

 

?

I mean, if it was to deny you the kill I can't really fault him.

[Izra-il]

On 8/12/2020 at 11:34 PM, J5_Klugermann said:

25% bonus for good landing, another 25% for winning side, base score for everything else.

Don' t forget the 25% bonus for buying a round of Schnapps at the Casino!