Eye-point moves of it's own accord

[Pict]

This has been happening to me for a very long time and long long before the latest dates and I've meant to ask about it for a long time.

 

I would like to know if anyone else experiences this and if so if there's a way of stopping it from happening as it's literally a pain in the neck, the repeat strain injury type.

 

The problem is that when I'm pulling some G positive or negative, my pilots eye-point will occasionally move on it's own, often putting my view point under the gun-sight and close to the instrument panel, as if I had suddenly and virtually instantaneously lent forward. But I didn't.

 

 

As could be expected this usually happens while following a bandit and when it does I usually loose track of him immediately. The cure is to nod my head (I use a TrackIR) and the viewpoint goes back to where it should be, but the bandit is long gone, or on my six and I wind up with a sore neck.

 

It's really annoying and I've tried lots of things to prevent it, like putting the camera inertia settings to zero.

 

Any ideas?

 

 

[Voidhunger]

Yes,  constant reset track ir view button

[SAG]

hmm, iv'e had this exact same problem for ages in VR so I always assumed it was something to do with my sensor placement or something!

 

Now that I hear you mention it with TrackIR it makes me believe it's some sort of bug with Il2, i don't get this bug on DCS or any other game now that I think about it (for me it gets fixed when i hit the recenter VR view button)

[40plus]

Can confirm, happens often for me in VR as well.

[Swing]

same here with track IR...

 

[Pict]

Oh no, that's kind of what I expected...I bet it affects everyone and that it's some kind of built in "feature" that tries to simulate G forces on your virtual pilot and therefore you won't find a setting that turns it off (like the radio).

 

TrackIR centering hotkey "fixes" it temporarily, ie., till it happens the next time which is all too often. But if your trying to track a bandit, say behind you, centering your view is the last thing you want to do, hence the nodding technique.

 

If it is an "immersion" type "feature", I wish they would remove it and leave the blackout feature as the G immersion feature, as my neck is constantly sore as a result of it.

 

If it's not a feature, anyone know how to stop it?

[SAG]

I'm 99% sure it's not a feature. to me, it happens at seemingly random moments, not necessarily when pulling negative or positive Gs

[HagarTheHorrible]

1 hour ago, pfrances said:

Can confirm, happens often for me in VR as well.

 

+1

[Pict]

11 minutes ago, SAG said:

I'm 99% sure it's not a feature. to me, it happens at seemingly random moments, not necessarily when pulling negative or positive Gs

 

You may well be right, I just assumed it was g related, but it certainly is random and not always with g + or -

[Goffik]

Well this is strange, because I've never had this problem in VR. The view does drift about while the game is paused, but never while in motion. Minor drifts occasionally, but no more than happens in any other VR game now and again. So for whatever reason it seems that this issue doesn't affect everyone.

[40plus]

Anecdotally, for me, it appears to occur if and when I am looking away from centre for an extended period of time.

I always assumed it was the system automatically re-centering my view but I haven't done any controlled tests of this assumption.

[[APAF]VR_Spartan85]

Ok, I honestly thought it was just my posture getting crappy as I play for endless hour.... but ya.. it happens all the time.. then it usually just takes a quick glance up to get centred again... 

 

 

[SAG]

3 hours ago, Goffik said:

Well this is strange, because I've never had this problem in VR. The view does drift about while the game is paused, but never while in motion. Minor drifts occasionally, but no more than happens in any other VR game now and again. So for whatever reason it seems that this issue doesn't affect everyone.

 

It's not drifting, it's more like a quick snap where I'm suddenly higher o lower in my seat; as I had suddenly become 50 centimeters taller or shorter.

 

 

I will try to make a video of it and post it here.

[Jade_Monkey]

Never happened to me in VR or TIR.

 

Are you sure you dont have conflicting inputs. The game has the POV buttons mapped by default and it could be interfering? 

[Voidhunger]

Its very very very annoying, track ir recenter view is my most used key button on joystick(and in the game). In banking, climbing, diving....recenter view, recenter view, recenter view. I lost many victories because of that.

I always though that its feature ( Head movement in gforces).

Edited October 11, 2019 by Voidhunger

[SAG]

1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Never happened to me in VR or TIR.

 

Are you sure you dont have conflicting inputs. The game has the POV buttons mapped by default and it could be interfering? 

 

 

 

I know its too early to tell, but I unbound anything that had "POV_XXX" on it plus the x and y axis for moving your head with the mouse and did a Quick mission with no BUG.

 

If this is a solution to the problem then You wont imagine how greatful I'll be!

2 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Its very very very annoining, track ir recenter view is my most used key button on joystick. In banking, climbing, diving....recenter view, recenter view, recenter view. I lost many victories because of that.

I always though that its feature ( Head movement in gforces).

 

 

Its not a feature, try doing what @Jade_Monkey said

Edited October 11, 2019 by SAG

[Voidhunger]

5 minutes ago, SAG said:

Its not a feature, try doing what @Jade_Monkey said

Im not using mouse in my cockpit, so there is nothing interfering with track ir.

But when im home from work i can try everything.....

[=SqSq=Sulaco]

Happens to me with Trackir, usually a quick and snappy nod of the head sets it back in place. Never even considered it a bug, figured the odd quirk like this was just the price of head tracking. Think it happens in DCS too but it’s been ages since I played that so not 100%

[Jason_Williams]

Not everything that happens in our game regarding peripherals is our fault. 
 

Jason

[SAG]

52 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Im not using mouse in my cockpit, so there is nothing interfering with track ir.

But when im home from work i can try everything.....

 

Me neither but the controls were still mapped to the mouse.

 

40 minutes ago, Jason_Williams said:

Not everything that happens in our game regarding peripherals is our fault. 
 

Jason

 

 

I'm sure not, but it does happen in both TrackIR and VR so maybe it can be looked into at some point?

[MasserME262]

so my mouse-moving-head pilot technique has an advantage... nice?

[Pict]

1 hour ago, Jason_Williams said:

Not everything that happens in our game regarding peripherals is our fault. 
 

Jason

 

That's understood and why I posted this in the General section of the forum to see if other people were having the same experience.

 

I'm really glad I did, as now I know it only affects some people and it appears from the replies that there's a solution to it, that I will try when I get time today. I'm really looking forward to it as I'm sure you can imagine it has been a huge handicap for combat.

 

It's a curious problem, hugely frustrating, yet at the same time happens in such away that you would easily come to the conclusion that it was built in.

 

4 hours ago, SAG said:

I will try to make a video of it and post it here.

 

I hope you do that and if possible add in the solution in a kind of before and after fashion. That could then go up in the tip & tricks section to help others avoid the problem.

[SAG]

4 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

That's understood and why I posted this in the General section of the forum to see if other people were having the same experience.

 

I'm really glad I did, as now I know it only affects some people and it appears from the replies that there's a solution to it, that I will try when I get time today. I'm really looking forward to it as I'm sure you can imagine it has been a huge handicap for combat.

 

It's a curious problem, hugely frustrating, yet at the same time happens in such away that you would easily come to the conclusion that it was built in.

 

 

I hope you do that and if possible add in the solution in a kind of before and after fashion. That could then go up in the tip & tricks section to help others avoid the problem.

 

 

Ill add the video as soon as I can, as for the solution, I only tested in a QMB dogfight so i wouldnt call it a solution just yet.

[Panzerlang]

I had it in BoX with TiR but also in CloD. So far not in VR (Rift).

[Pict]

38 minutes ago, SAG said:

 

 

Ill add the video as soon as I can, as for the solution, I only tested in a QMB dogfight so i wouldnt call it a solution just yet.

 

That'd be terrific, at least that way others can see and understand the problem a whole lot better then.

 

I'm in the middle of testing it right now as I type and after culling lots of potentially conflicting inputs for snap views and such like I can say that so far so good, not once has the problem re-occurred and I can track bandits with relative ease 

 

It's like a whole new game...back to testing  

[AlphaHasen]

I suspect that your setting towards the TIR is not good. Had the problem sometimes, but solved. 

[Pict]

1 hour ago, JG4_RuckZuck said:

I suspect that your setting towards the TIR is not good.

 

No it wasn't that, my TrackIR is set up spot. I check it every time I fly. I've been using TrackIR for a long long time, still have a TrackIR 3 lurking somewhere and use if for more than just IL2BOX and never had this problem outside of IL2BOX, a problem that is now gone

 

Just ran many combats, aerobatics etc., in various different aircraft and can say that the problem appears to have been eliminated just by deleting all of the entries in the Pilot head camera section of my settings. That includes pilot head zoom which I never use anyhow.

 

I will slowly add some back in, in an effort to isolate the conflict, but that's gonna take time and a back seat to simply enjoying IL2BOX the way it should be for the first time I think I can remember. And man is it ever excellent !!! Better than any other I have tried !!!

 

Really great fun so far, things like rolling scissors and head on snap shots are fun now, not something to avoid. I just had a great QMB in an I-16 fending of a few 109's and Macchi's. Although well out numbered, I managed to survive without a hit and got in some sneaky little shots, even managed to force one AI to cook his motor   I wouldn't have survived long in the same position just this time yesterday as I just couldn't have kept track of the battle anywhere near close to well enough.

 

Really happy and can hardly wait for the next TAW where I intend to swap the bomber cockpit for a fighter much more often and even hope to get a little payback in  

Edited October 11, 2019 by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

[Aap]

Happens to me in TrackIR. Quick head-shake is my method of re-centering. 

It is not related to conflicting POV-buttons, as I have mapped these to other functions from day 1.

[Panzerlang]

1 hour ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

Happens to me in TrackIR. Quick head-shake is my method of re-centering. 

It is not related to conflicting POV-buttons, as I have mapped these to other functions from day 1.

Same, got used to it. We always suspected it might be a G effect but generally concluded it was a TiR glitch. Most of my CloD combat videos have it in.

[Pict]

2 hours ago, II./JG77_Kemp said:

Happens to me in TrackIR. Quick head-shake is my method of re-centering. 

It is not related to conflicting POV-buttons, as I have mapped these to other functions from day 1.

 

You may want to try un-binding some more stuff to find the conflict, as that's what I had to do when I realized that it was more than just the POV stuff that affected it. I wound up deleting everything in the Pilot head controls...and it happened a few more times, them I went into other camera bindings and took them out too.

 

I've just concluded about a 2 hour session on IL2BOX in QMB without having to do the "Quick-head shake" method once. Up until then I couldn't go one flight or fight without repeatedly having to deal with that problem.

 

On the other hand if you feel you can live with it...that's your sore neck and not mine  

 

I'd normally say there's no looking back now, but looking back is a real pleasure now knowing that when I look forward again my virtual head won't be under the dashboard or in the glove-box, thanks to all those who gave positive and useful feedback to this thread ...

 

and even more so when your P-51 has the Southern Cross on it's rudder, thanks to @spudkopf 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, J3Hetzer said:

Same, got used to it. We always suspected it might be a G effect but generally concluded it was a TiR glitch. Most of my CloD combat videos have it in.

 

Would you happen to have a link to one of those videos?

Edited October 11, 2019 by Pict
Spelling, tweaking etc.

[Aap]

1 hour ago, Pict said:

I wound up deleting everything in the Pilot head controls...and it happened a few more times, them I went into other camera bindings and took them out too.

I've just concluded about a 2 hour session on IL2BOX in QMB without having to do the "Quick-head shake" method once.

 

That is quite interesting. I always thought that this is a game or TrackIR related thing that I just had to live with. Now I wonder if my zoom axis or something like that could affect it. I know that the axis that I use for zoom is not fully precise, so maybe this could be the cause; or mouse, like suggested before. Will need to test it.

[SAG]

 

I just finished an hour in WoL with no problems. We might have a solution on our hands! ? 

 

I'll Play more tonight (i expect for several hours) and report again.

 

[Stoopy]

GREAT thread and looking forward to more info if any is found, since this has been vexing me also.  If you want to divide and conquer the settings I'd be happy to help, there's an awful lot to turn off so maybe splitting them up and then narrowing down from there could be a group effort?

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Happens when you look upwards, past the point where view stops moving.  When you look down it ends up far too low.

[SAG]

 

 

5 hours ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Happens when you look upwards, past the point where view stops moving.  When you look down it ends up far too low.

 

 

I tried doing this for hours trying to replicate with no success.

 

On the other hand, I also unbound from my mouse "vow pilot head vertically" and "horizontally" and have had zero problems with this bug!

Edited October 11, 2019 by SAG

[[DBS]TH0R]

IIRC I had that "sinking into cockpit" problem few months ago, and the solution was a settings in TrackIR software. Can't remember exactly what the solution to the problem was, but try limiting Z axis (next to "Invert") in your profile:

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[Pict]

6 hours ago, =[TIA]=Stoopy said:

If you want to divide and conquer the settings I'd be happy to help, there's an awful lot to turn off so maybe splitting them up and then narrowing down from there could be a group effort?

 

Feel free to pile in

 

Like I said above, I'm currently just enjoying being without this problem and at some point down the track I might slowly start to try and finger the culprit or culprits through an inverse process of elimination, ie., by adding stuff back in one at a time.

 

13 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

IIRC I had that "sinking into cockpit" problem few months ago, and the solution was a settings in TrackIR software. Can't remember exactly what the solution to the problem was, but try limiting Z axis

 

There is an element of sinking that happens when you pull some g's and of course the opposite when pushing the stick forward, but it's minimal as you would expect when supposedly strapped tightly into your seat. This I am happy with and see it as a plus point for immersion as it is subtle in a way that you never totally lose your gun-sight and as the g bleeds of your slowly return to your start point.

 

If I was to limit my Z axis in my TrackIR profile, it would merely reduce my up & down head movement in game, not much use when flying the likes of the I-16,  but would not have stopped the problem I was having.

 

The problem we have all been having is not sinking or subtle in anyway whatsoever. It is really violent and once it happens it just stays that way until you shake your head or reset your TrackIR/VR. It's almost as if your seat harness has just broken in 6 points at the same time and you headbutted the panel. And it happens over and over and over again, not once, nor twice but almost all the time in a flight. Just really annoying. In fact if it was happening to you, you wouldn't use terms like IIRC, because you would never forget it  

 

It is almost certainly a conflict with the mouse X&Y axis and the TrackIR/VR which work on that same function.

[SAG]

32 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

IIRC I had that "sinking into cockpit" problem few months ago, and the solution was a settings in TrackIR software. Can't remember exactly what the solution to the problem was, but try limiting Z axis (next to "Invert") in your profile:

 

 

 

thanks for the input THOR but what you are describing is not what we are talking about here  

 

Like Pict Said, if you had it you'd immediately understand, as it is very noticeable and very different from the usual "drift" we all get with time.

[[DBS]TH0R]

11 hours ago, SAG said:

 

 

thanks for the input THOR but what you are describing is not what we are talking about here  

 

Like Pict Said, if you had it you'd immediately understand, as it is very noticeable and very different from the usual "drift" we all get with time.

 

On the contrary, the issue you are describing here is exactly what was plaguing my TrackIR for years - the only fix for me was re-centering. Until I applied the fix above (I think, once I've fixed it I never looked back).

Edited October 12, 2019 by [DBS]TH0R

[Pict]

22 minutes ago, [DBS]TH0R said:

 

On the contrary, the issue you are describing here is exactly what was plaguing my TrackIR for years. Until I applied the fix above (I think, once I've fixed it I never looked back).

 

Fair enough, could be your initial description didn't match what is being perceived here 

 

If you were having the same problem and limiting the TrackIR z axis cured it, then it might help troubleshoot this whole thing. I'm reluctant to bring this demon back to my cockpit, but I'm keen to eliminate it totally and in a clean fashion that doesn't leave my key bindings like a deserted no-go area.

 

So I'll try a few different profiles with my TrackIR and see where it leads. Anyone else wanting to have a shot at this be sure to let us know how you go.

Edited October 12, 2019 by Pict