Do you like new tank gun aiming system (Poll)?

[Lofte 80]

You can discuss it here - All tanks using M4 style gun aiming, Good or Bad ?

Here is just poll..

Yes - you think new system is better than old one

No  - you think new system is worse than old one

Edited October 4 by Lofte

[I./ZG1_feuervogel 46]

No I do not like it! 

Instead of fixing existing bugs, we got this crazy, uncontrollable aiming. For me it is a(nother) step away from the sim I was dreaming of to an armored ego-shooter thing. 

[SCG_Neun 678]

Another update just now....keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Yogiflight 507]

Nope. As we are in a small subforum, that hardly anyone reads, it is not that important, that we are not satisfied with the changes.

[[PzDF]KurtPanzerMeyer 7]

No words for what they are doing, that is the worst idea they could have, it destroys the game for me...

 

Kind regards

Meyer 😤😫

[WIS-Redcoat 148]

I don't yet know if it is better or worse...  so I can't vote. 

 

I know it should be linked to control axis by either a game controller or joystick.  I hope we get there.

[SCG_SchleiferGER 17]

I cannot  stand the new system.

Feels like my gunner had at least 3 liters of beer before going into battle

It is especially disorienting, if you cannot see the yellow circle due to realism settings.

 

Does anyone know how I bind my turret to a controller? Maybe it works better this way.

[Thad 1131]

It can be done with JoyToKey.

[NHK295M 45]

I like it, couse it closer to realistic aim. Previous version was like in arcade WarThunder - fast and precision aim by the mouse. Now better use buttons to fast move turret on target and then precise aim by the mouse. 

Edited October 9 by NHK295M

[SCG_Neun 678]

Not getting my settings worked out very well.  Either keys or mouse...turret continues to move past the position where I would like it to stop.  

I'll continue to work on it though.

Edited October 4 by SCG_Neun

[saldy 23]

I thought my mouse was damaged 😆

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

What the f.... is this ????????   My mouse is drunk !

 

 

 

For me a NO !

[SCG_SchleiferGER 17]

We need to make the new system's yellow circle unable to leave the screen. Instead of following a circle, the distance from the middle of the crosshair to the mouse could be used to define the traverse speed (far away = fast, close = slow). After a certain distance away from the crosshair it will not move any further away. 

 

What I am describing sounds a lot like mouse joy.

[I./ZG1_feuervogel 46]

I really do hope for the ability to bind "turning turret" and "elevate gun" to separate input control or axis in tank settings (Expert settings). So you could manage turret and gun with joystick or even pedals (I guess many IL2 players own pedals or trim wheel). Just like the real thing (i.e. Tiger). Of course this will be more challenging to aim at target but it would be closer to the real thing. What do you think?

 

I could live with this "plane-gunner-like" mouse aiming, but I cannot accept this drunken cursor thing!

Let's make this Tank Crew game a simulation, make it special and define a new way of experience for the player aside from the "FPS- games" like WOT. 

Edited October 5 by I./ZG1_feuervogel

[Finkeren 5879]

I lack options in that poll. 

 

My reply would be, that I like the new system ever so slightly better than the old, but that the aiming system as a whole is still very unsatisfactory. 

[KARAYA1 42]

16 hours ago, Mr_Pickles said:

I like it, couse it closer to realistic aim

 

How is this realistic, drunk simulator?

 

5 hours ago, SCG_SchleiferGER said:

We need to make the new system's yellow circle unable to leave the screen

 

We who don't play this in arcade mode can't see the yellow circle... And the little indikator down in the corner for where the turret is going is just bad, AND! As a gunner you don't want to look at an indicator, you look at the target and follow it. 

 

I understand that if you play this in Arcade mode and see the circle, it's a lot more understandable. Now it is just as JaVA_KEBEN pointed out, (I can't say it better my self) "What the f.... is this ????????   My mouse is drunk !"

 

This new system is not good at all, as in gunner station. If how ever you could use this in the officer seat then I'm with this.

[SCG_SchleiferGER 17]

41 minutes ago, KARAYA1 said:

 

How is this realistic, drunk simulator?

 

 

We who don't play this in arcade mode can't see the yellow circle... And the little indikator down in the corner for where the turret is going is just bad, AND! As a gunner you don't want to look at an indicator, you look at the target and follow it. 

 

I know that "we" can't see the circle. I played with you yesterday, remember? I am a frequent visitor of E-Front (if I have spare time).

 

I think the problem comes from the circle overtraveling due to very high sensitivity, a lack of a hard stop in its travel and the fact that we cannot see the circle and over- or undercorrect our aim. If, lets say, the circle can only move in an area about 7 centimeters around the middle of the cross-hair, then even hard mouse pulls won't disorient you, like they do now.

Edited October 5 by SCG_SchleiferGER

[SCG_Neun 678]

I think he is using the little circle as a visual graphic tool in assessing the input features of this new turret movement and aiming.  If you think about it...it's a smart reference.  If you'd like you can play with us sometime and see how arcade we play.  😉

 

Schleifer, I'm seeing this same problem as well.  I thought at first I just had some screwy settings....but now that I see similar observations online I think this needs to be addressed.  

 

Edited October 5 by SCG_Neun

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

I really don't want to nag, but who was so drunk that he could think of this?

 

This is really so bad, my wife could not have designed it worse .

The developer had probably a very plaeasant evening with a lot of vodka  ..and thougt … come ,  lets adjust something

i just don't have words for it

 

After a busy week with a lot of work, I thought I was going to relax and grabbed a New T34 ...... ( for my special friend )  ;-)  ( its a joke ! )

My first thought was that it was just too tired, I had worked this week for about 70 hours and you can feel that a bit when you are almost 50 years old .

But , after a good night of sleep , i still can'r manage to aim for a goal within half an hour …..

 

What a mess !

 

My mouse is drunk or or i'm drunk...... my last party whas 5 weeks ago ....... i think thats enough time not to be drunk anymore .

 

It would be nice if there were improvements after an update ... that was not entirely successful

 

 

There are two gunners ...lol ….my up and down aiming gunner is drunk ...my lef and right aming gunner is oke ..what a mess !

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5 by 1.JaVA_KEBEN

[Yogiflight 507]

With low mouse sensitivity and acceleration (however I am not sure if the later has anything to do with it) it is better doable, but still it happens that I am turning the turret over the target, and when you are not careful by bringing it back, you will pass the target again, just in the opposite direction.

The idea to bind the mouse to the turret movement and not the player's sight, so you don't get those black shadows anymore, is of course right, but the way it was done, makes the game unenjoyable.

I am absolutely with Schleifer, if the mouse aiming is kept, there needs to be a system as he describes.

But I, of course, are much more with Finkeren, moving the turret with axis and/or keybindings would definitely be the right way to go.

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

Aiming with the mouse works fine for me , but not on this way .. the old way is better than this .

 

[judgedeath3 94]

I would say the same as Finkeren:
In some ways this new system is better than the old, but also lacking in others so I would like to see a new system that is more realistic and working better.
Not as easy sight as inw arthunder or world of tanks since aiming is a skill and takes training to become good at, but also not the wld controls we have now.(OK I got it to work well but not perfect but its not as realistic as I´d like it.)

[Finkeren 5879]

I don't even get why it's hard. One axis for elevation and one for traverse. It's so simple you gotta wonder, how they could screw it up. Once that was in place, you could work on a mouse-aim system for those who didn't have a joystick. Why on Earth did they do it the other way around? 

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

The strange thing is , up and down is a real mess … left en right works fine …… who whas drunk ?

 

 

[Yogiflight 507]

 

9 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

I don't even get why it's hard. One axis for elevation and one for traverse. It's so simple you gotta wonder, how they could screw it up. Once that was in place, you could work on a mouse-aim system for those who didn't have a joystick. Why on Earth did they do it the other way around? 

Because it is what we already had in game. As aircraft gunner you are aiming with the mouse, too. Plus, other tank games also have it this way.

2 minutes ago, 1.JaVA_KEBEN said:

The strange thing is , up and down is a real mess … left en right works fine …… who whas drunk ?

 

 

Yep, vertical movements are often not working for some seconds, for me.

[Finkeren 5879]

5 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

 

Because it is what we already had in game. As aircraft gunner you are aiming with the mouse, too. Plus, other tank games also have it this way.

 

Building the tank turrets on the same controls as the aircraft turrets was a mistake from the start IMHO, and even the true turrets on aircraft should have had a two-axis controls sceme as default with only free-mounted guns having mouse control, but be that as it may. 

 

What we have now is on its way to becoming a true tank sim, and we need controls that reflect the actual controls of a tank turret better (Ideally we'd all be sitting and turning two separate cranks, but two axis is the best approximation) 

[Yogiflight 507]

1 minute ago, Finkeren said:

 

Building the tank turrets on the same controls as the aircraft turrets was a mistake from the start IMHO, and even the true turrets on aircraft should have had a two-axis controls sceme as default with only free-mounted guns having mouse control, but be that as it may. 

 

What we have now is on its way to becoming a true tank sim, and we need controls that reflect the actual controls of a tank turret better (Ideally we'd all be sitting and turning two separate cranks, but two axis is the best approximation) 

Absolutely agreed. I, too, am hoping for axis control. I definitely would give my Trim Wheel a go for gun elevation. Would be interesting to see how this would work.

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

33 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

 

Because it is what we already had in game. As aircraft gunner you are aiming with the mouse, too. Plus, other tank games also have it this way.

Yep, vertical movements are often not working for some seconds, for me.

 Here the same , the vertical movement is compleet drunk … realy not playable .

[SCG_Neun 678]

I'm getting a bit more used to it with practice, but I'd like the axis control assignments to be implemented...

[JordonBrooker 4]

Much better this way imo.

[vlad_8011 2]

I personally like the new system. Faster rotating wasnt possible before, even on tanks with motor traverse (when zooming into sights), now there is less mouse movement required, i dont move it like crazy to turn turret more. In Steel Fury, (which this game is meant to be successor) you could rotate turret via mouse AND ARROW KEYS, pushing Ctr + Arrows was activating motor traverse. Here there is no such option, there was only slow rotation (when zoomed in) or fast rotation (when completly zoomed out) and zooming ( + and - keys) was very slow. When you accelerated zooming you was unable to fine zero the sight. 

I thing this is best way they could do it right now, still far from perfect, still far from Steel Fury, but at least playable.

About circle - i agree yellow big circle is bad, but this is how its handle in the sims, even in T34 vs Tiger. You need to know where you center of sight is going to, how far the turret will rotate - thats was not present in real, but this is the game, and you are using mouse and keyboard, you need to control the tank.

Edited October 7 by vlad_8011

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

3 hours ago, vlad_8011 said:

About circle - i agree yellow big circle is bad, but this is how its handle in the sims, even in T34 vs Tiger. You need to know where you center of sight is going to, how far the turret will rotate - thats was not present in real, but this is the game, and you are using mouse and keyboard, you need to control the tank.

 

you play online ??

 

Because whe have no yellow circle …..only a drunk mouse….

 

 

 

Still no update for this mess ?

 

I whas hoping for a quick solution ……

Edited October 7 by 1.JaVA_KEBEN

[cedric029 2]

On 10/5/2019 at 4:02 PM, 1.JaVA_KEBEN said:

 Here the same , the vertical movement is compleet drunk … realy not playable .

I thought I was alone... the gun got stuck on neutral position and wouldnt go up some degres to get a shot.  Have to move the mouse couple times to get it going and since the new aim system the turret is going crazy since I lost the yellow circle in the same time.  It happens often.  

[1.JaVA_KEBEN 81]

46 minutes ago, cedric029 said:

I thought I was alone... the gun got stuck on neutral position and wouldnt go up some degres to get a shot.  Have to move the mouse couple times to get it going and since the new aim system the turret is going crazy since I lost the yellow circle in the same time.  It happens often.  

 

 

Your not alone m8

[=SqSq=Sulaco 158]

I’d be happy if we could bind the turret controls to key presses similar to Hell Let Loose.

[15[Span.]/JG51Spartan 426]

So .... what is the new one?

What was the change about? 

[Bies 438]

When it comes to aiming alone this new system is great and allow to simulate cranks in real tanks. It is better to operate using keys than mouse. (and now i can't bind keys to operate it, but the game is still WiP).

 

It have been used previously in all tank simulators like Panzer Elite, Panzer Commander, T-34 vs Tiger, Balkans on Fire, Steel Armor, Steel Fury: Kharkov 1942 and so on.

 

The old Tank Crew "mouse" aiming was derived from arcade shooters like WoT and WT and it gives precision incomparably greater than this of real tanks and it works only in shooters, not in sims. This system alone is responsible for hunting tiniest weakspots in armor crucial in WoT or WT but irrelevant in sims or real WW 2 tank warfare.

 

So overall when it comes to realism new system is great and universally used in all tank sims in history but devs should add option to bind keys i.e. arrows, to operate it.

Edited October 9 by Bies

[Yogiflight 507]

The new system is too sensitive. At least in German tanks the gunners where able to move the turret and gun pretty precisely with handwheels. The limiting factor until late war was the 2.5x zoom of the gunsights, which were developed for shorter distance fighting.

Maybe someone, who knows more about the Russian tanks can say a word about their abilities.

Second point, currently it often happens, that I can't move the gun vertically for a few seconds. You don't want this to happen in a gunfight.

And the third point is the overturning of the turret when you move your mouse too far, which is far from being simulating how a real gunner aims.

[Bies 438]

33 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

The new system is too sensitive. At least in German tanks the gunners where able to move the turret and gun pretty precisely with handwheels. The limiting factor until late war was the 2.5x zoom of the gunsights, which were developed for shorter distance fighting.

Maybe someone, who knows more about the Russian tanks can say a word about their abilities.

Second point, currently it often happens, that I can't move the gun vertically for a few seconds. You don't want this to happen in a gunfight.

And the third point is the overturning of the turret when you move your mouse too far, which is far from being simulating how a real gunner aims.

Yes, new system requires fine tuning and keyboard control option but it is far better than derived from WoT mouse director mode.

[Yogiflight 507]

43 minutes ago, Bies said:

Yes, new system requires fine tuning and keyboard control option but it is far better than derived from WoT mouse director mode.

I never played WoT or WT, so I can't say anything about them. And yes keyboard and/or joystick control are surely the way too go. Mouse aiming for the bow machine gun and turret rear machinegun of the KV-1, is ok, but not for the maingun and coaxial MG.