Microsoft Flight Sim 2020

[Hoss]

I like to watch some of the smaller sports planes too.. depending on what prop you picked and it's pitch determines most of those.  LOL

 

 

[Bremspropeller]

On 8/29/2021 at 4:24 AM, Monostripezebra said:

Pretty sure you could also do A320 bushflying. It takes a bit to get over the annoying autothrottle.. but with full spoilers and flaps out, it works really nice, as long as you do not get into the checkered speedtape area.

 

Careful you're not going into Alpha Floor, when getting too low an energy state. You'can't "override" this funcion (other than pulling the A/T CBs, see Air France Flight 296), and that protection will even kick in with A/T off.

 

Some other issues with the MSFS Airbus: You can't select Autobrakes MAX in the air (it's an RTO function*) and I'm not sure whether the boards normally would autostow at Flaps FULL ( @busdriver certainly does know a thing or two about boards + flaps greater than CONF1, which one does seldomly see here in Europe).

Not sure if you could actually select reverse in the air in the actual Bus, or whether the interlocks would prevent you from doing that. To actually go into MREV, you need weight-on-wheels and wheel-spin-up. Same is true for ground-spoilers and (depending on ELAC** mod-state) the spoiler-funtion of the aileron/ flaperon.

The NEO probably has it installed right off the factory-floor, as there's no use in not having these ELAC-mods.

 

___

* Autobrake commands a decelereation-rate, so pulling the reversers especially at high speeds will help in lowering the brake-temps!

** Elevator/ Aileron Computer

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bremspropeller

[busdriver]

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

I'm not sure whether the boards normally would autostow at Flaps FULL

 

 

And just because...

 

4 hours ago, Bremspropeller said:

Not sure if you could actually select reverse in the air in the actual Bus, or whether the interlocks would prevent you from doing that.

 

[Bremspropeller]

It's interesting to see a difference in the speedbrake-logic between the 319 and 320! But then again, there are all kinds of minute differences between versions and sub-versions (there are four or five different wing-types in the 320 family - the differences are only mattering on the maintence-programme level, though).

 

A couple of months ago I was bored at work and I decided to dive into the TCDS of the 320 Family...

One curious fact is the A320 with the CFM motors has a slightly different CONF FULL TE flap setting (35°) than the IAE-powered (40°). Supposedly the IAE has a higher idle thrust, so it would float too far down the runway in the flare with the 35° setting, so Airbus had to find a way to get more drag onto the airplane. The over-winged 319 and 318 both use the 40° setting. The 321 has an altogether different flap-system. So does - in turn - the 321NEO. The 321XLR also has a special flap system for optimized second segment performance.

On the 320NEO, the PW1000 motor has the lower and the CFM/LEAP motor has the higher FULL flap setting.

 

The 320 family is normally limited to FL390, but FL410 is available through a Service Bulletin. Except on the PW6000-powered A318 (I guess they didn't bother asking Airbus for this feature) and it's also not available on the 321NEO (probably not enough wing to lift the aircraft up that high).

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Bremspropeller

[AndyJWest]

Airbus too complicated. Me fly Bleriot. Push stick. Plane go down. Pull stick. Plane go down. Move stick sideways. Plane go down sideways (either way, depending on mood it's in). Simple...

[Monostripezebra]

As Busdriver has pointed out.. the stock MSFS A320 has very little to do with the real A320, flightdynamicswise, you can do a lot of things that the real would not do, including using rudder to spin it in normal law (as far as I know it does not have alternate law)..or land overly short, but that kind of is the fun, for bushplane use. Its definately not "realism" but it is very solid fun.  I just hope the Ju52 will be able to keep up with the Airbus, when it comes to backcountry exploration..

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

Making my way across Alaska with just a compass and google maps for guidance.  Good times.  
 

[Chief_Mouser]

Giving up on MSFS.

Such a PITA to update anything and everything. 'Go to the Microsoft Store' for the mandatory update where it won't tell you what to do. Jump through a million hoops on the in-game store page; update some a/c through the 'community' folder once you find where it is. ?

I only really bought it for the pretty scenery, and the flying hasn't grabbed me at all, despite trying several types of aircraft. 

And I really, really, hate the 'crash' model. No explanation apart from a blank screen and 'exceeded aircraft parameters' or something. You can do that in the Bleriot by just pushing the nose down!

Patience has run out with it - if I want to see what something looks like I'm going back to Google Earth from now on.

Cheers.

[ZachariasX]

It is a pain.

 

Easiest is that you open the store and all the way in the upper right corner (where the ... are) of the window you can make it look for updates.

 

Normally, it does that by itself. If that gets screwed, you have to log out from the store, log out from the xbox application, restart and log in again. Usually that mends it. Worst was when I had to uninstall the Xbox App and manually install it again, then it could connect to the update server.

 

I also had the case that "it couldn't connect to the server" and then just had to log out from the xbox account and sign in again.

 

It is a PITA. Complexity that cannot be controlled.

 

EDIT: 2.67 GB update...  ...and another 5.1 GB in the Marketplace as World update... EDIT2: aaaand another 5 GB for the previous content...

Edited September 7, 2021 by ZachariasX

[Feathered_IV]

That’s a shame.  For me it has been relatively painless and I’m having some of the most enjoyable flying experiences I’ve ever had.  

[Gambit21]

9 hours ago, 216th_Cat said:

Giving up on MSFS.

Such a PITA to update anything and everything. 'Go to the Microsoft Store' for the mandatory update where it won't tell you what to do. Jump through a million hoops on the in-game store page; update some a/c through the 'community' folder once you find where it is. ?

I only really bought it for the pretty scenery, and the flying hasn't grabbed me at all, despite trying several types of aircraft. 

And I really, really, hate the 'crash' model. No explanation apart from a blank screen and 'exceeded aircraft parameters' or something. You can do that in the Bleriot by just pushing the nose down!

Patience has run out with it - if I want to see what something looks like I'm going back to Google Earth from now on.

Cheers.

 

 

I was already steering clear for now, but I have ZERO time for bullshti...so I appreciate the insight.

 

[Chief_Mouser]

7 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

 

I was already steering clear for now, but I have ZERO time for bullshti...so I appreciate the insight.

 

 

I didn't mention it above but the downloads are also incredibly slow. Literally hours for something like the mandatory scenery packs.

 

Edit: Just spotted this: Flight Simulator World Update 6 is here… if you can download it – Stormbirds

It might help some of you but it's too late for me. I'll revisit FS20 (perhaps) at some time in the future when it's professionally written software and not the shambles it is at the moment.

Edited September 8, 2021 by 216th_Cat

[ZachariasX]

19 minutes ago, 216th_Cat said:

It might help some of you but it's too late for me. I'll revisit FS20 (perhaps) at some time in the future when it's professionally written software and not the shambles it is at the moment.

They might do that after they did that with Windows.

 

I was installing everythig and I had average download speeds of 200 Mbit per second. It really doesn't take that long if you have a decent carrier on your side. It is as fast as your Windows updates. It's the same backend after all. It's the Azure cloud next to you.

 

The only issue the sim has it that the XBox sign on service sometimes is porked. that sucks big time once it happens. XBox (and it services) may be trash, but that is what we get as service. But that hassle you get on top of "ordinary windows licensing check" tha you have anyway. You can add a further layer of complexity by going via Steam. But then you get what you asked for.

 

The world update is really, really nice. Great improvement to my own backyard.

 

I wish they would work on their SDK as much as they do work on the sim world. Right now, it is really limited in what you can do and keeps high fidelity FM's from being introduced, not to mention bespoke solutions as they are common for P3D.

[Lusekofte]

8 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

 

 

I was already steering clear for now, but I have ZERO time for bullshti...so I appreciate the insight.

 

I have not flown it for month. Because I lost all my purchases for the second time. And for some reason cannot find the communityfolder. Not tried to hard. But I had to uninstall Intel software in order to get premium up and going in the first place.

Frustration level is on par with fu**ing up a modinstall in old IL 2 and having to reinstall all things all over again. I have no time for crap. I start a game . Fly for half hour close it again and then do other stuff.

[DD_Arthur]

The whole update/install process is indeed Machiavellian.

 I think Andy put his finger on it a few weeks earlier;

we are being inducted into Microsoft’s vision of a wraparound world where everything is taken care of by interlinking their games, their store, their apps and our hardware.

Microsoft’s literature seems to assume everyone not only wants and likes this but has a thorough understanding of it too.

Unfortunately it’s quite often a lot of clunky bollox.?

 

World update five and the launch of the game on Xbox came just before the start of the French holiday season and World update six has arrived just at the end.

 

Oh dear.

 

Expect another hot fix very soon as night flying now involves a very trippy visit to fairy land...

 

Having said this, performance of the game after World update six is quite fantastic now.

 I’m hoping that Sim update six - due either this month or next - will give us back the lighting and ground textures that we had before the launch of the Xbox edition.

 

Fingers crossed...

 

[DD_fruitbat]

I gave up on this month's ago.

 

 

[DD_Arthur]

3 hours ago, DD_fruitbat said:

I gave up on this month's ago.

 

Must admit, I'm still very much in love with it. 

[ZachariasX]

29 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Must admit, I'm still very much in love with it. 

Same here. Every now and then I hate it for... business model resons. But once one is flying again... There is just no world as that one and every flight unique as in the real world.

[SYN_Vander]

I don’t understand these negative sentiments. Sure the update system could be better, but it’s not a reason to ditch it. For me, MSFS is here to stay; heck I’m actually building a plane for it. It won’t replace IL2 or DCS but it offers a huge beuatiful world to fly in and a (potentially) vast eco system of add-ons and gameplay.

[Lusekofte]

1 hour ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Must admit, I'm still very much in love with it. 

And I totally understand. My status is time issue. I can't afford the dedication. But I like the sim itself. Except that bullshit communityfolder and reinstall

49 minutes ago, SYN_Vander said:

I don’t understand these negative sentiments. Sure the update system could be better, but it’s not a reason to ditch it. For me, MSFS is here to stay; heck I’m actually building a plane for it. It won’t replace IL2 or DCS but it offers a huge beuatiful world to fly in and a (potentially) vast eco system of add-ons and gameplay.

I am not negative to the sim itself. But I won't reccomend this sim to anyone on a tight time schedule 

[ZachariasX]

This is amost surreal.

 

 

I would previously scrape 30 FPS on Ultra, now 40 FPS on an old GF1080 and an i9-7900X. Terrain loads faster and farther. Loading times in general improved. The looks without much modding are... really stunning in the newly updated world regions.

 

[Pict]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

This is amost surreal.

 

It sure is...especially for anyone who remembers the original MSFS on the old AT PC's.

 

What was the default runway called again, the one in the lake at Chicago iirc  

[ZachariasX]

30 minutes ago, Pict said:

 

It sure is...especially for anyone who remembers the original MSFS on the old AT PC's.

 

What was the default runway called again, the one in the lake at Chicago iirc  

 

Meigs Field. It doesn‘t exist anymore as an airfield. I remember that one… on a WANG laptop on a blue an gold monochrome screen. 

[SYN_Vander]

I can always recognize Chicago in movies because of me flying in MSFS 4.0 from Meigs LOL

[Lusekofte]

35 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

 

Meigs Field. It doesn‘t exist anymore as an airfield. I remember that one… on a WANG laptop on a blue an gold monochrome screen. 

That was my first experience with PC and flightsim. Up in Svalbard in 1995. 

We where in Svea and moved 11 house to Longyarbyen . In the livinquarter they had a pc running MS flight sim. I was amazed. 

Keyboard only

[busdriver]

22 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

That’s a shame.  For me it has been relatively painless and I’m having some of the most enjoyable flying experiences I’ve ever had.  

 

Until today every update had been painless. The Update wasn't showing up in Microsoft Store. Checked out their updated Known Issues having done all of the steps in Download and Installation Issues Part 1 and followed all the steps of Download and Installation Issues Part 2 I freed up several Gb from my SSD.

 

Like my hero @216th_Cat...my fun meter is pegged. Plus I need a faster ISP.

[Feathered_IV]

Busdriver, I had the same issue with the installer not showing up in the store page.  It seems to be a store bug that many people have reported.  The fix is to install the “Xbox” widget from the store, run it once then exit it and go back to the store and hit the Get Updates button again.  After that the store wakes up and FS starts downloading like it should.  I got it going that way in less than a few minutes.  

[busdriver]

28 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Busdriver, I had the same issue with the installer not showing up in the store page.  It seems to be a store bug that many people have reported.  The fix is to install the “Xbox” widget from the store, run it once then exit it and go back to the store and hit the Get Updates button again.  After that the store wakes up and FS starts downloading like it should.  I got it going that way in less than a few minutes.  

 

I tried that. No luck…no worries.

[Lusekofte]

My feeling about this is the same as Busdriver.

No worries. It get sorted in due time. I have no feeling of missing something. But at some point I fix this and fly something

[dburne]

Been a while for me with this one, but got it all updated and had a go with it again yesterday after finishing the DCS Hornet campaign I was flying.

Took some adjustments to get it to run ok in my newer Vive Pro 2 but it is looking pretty good. I had forgotten how gorgeous and real the scenery looks in it.

Going to do some tweaking with it off and on over the next few days and finish getting my controllers setup to my liking.

[Pict]

16 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

 

Meigs Field. It doesn‘t exist anymore as an airfield. I remember that one… on a WANG laptop on a blue an gold monochrome screen. 

 

That's the one...how could I forget...other than it was over 30 years ago 

[ZachariasX]

15 hours ago, busdriver said:

I tried that. No luck…no worries.

Can you tell me where things don't work anymore?

 

I had twice the situation that it didn't didn't want to start, but then I started the sim by opening the MS store and then it could start:

 

The update I usually only see by manually clicking on the three dots in the upper right corner, selcting "downloads and updates".

 

Also, it is most important that when you start the sim normally and you get prompted by UAC that you approve the access and in case you are running the sim not in an admin priviledges account, you enter the admin password for processiong of the update. I skipped that once becuase I felt I didn't want to wait for the update this time, and that was a mistake. From then on, it didn't want to update anymore and it didn't want to install anymore. What mendend it was:

• Sign out MS Store
• Sign out XBox
• Unistall XBox
• Restart
• Download XBox App and install
• Sign in both Store and Xbox, launch via Store as shown on the screenshot above.

 

 

[dburne]

OMG trying to get back into this sim and the controller setup for a HOTAS is about the most convoluted I have ever seen.

Just trying to assign trim to buttons on a stick is unbelievably difficult. Also can't get any exterior views to work (VR).

VR toolbar toggle - when on I can select ATC no problem, selecting any of the others results in an in the face dual image that is useless. Not sure what is going there as it used to work for me previously.

Much frustration.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by dburne

[busdriver]

3 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Can you tell me where things don't work anymore?

 

Certainly...nothing worked to get the update. I followed each step of the troubleshooting pages...reading the steps out loud to make sure I was not skipping something. I uninstalled the sim. I'm not angry or upset.

 

I just got Nightfighter Ace in the mail, so I have plenty to keep me busy.

 

 

Plus I'm anxiously waiting for Theo Boiten's Nachtjagd Archive series to arrive.

 

It's all good. Actually better than good. 

[Feathered_IV]

4 hours ago, busdriver said:

I just got Nightfighter Ace in the mail, so I have plenty to keep me busy.

 

 

Plus I'm anxiously waiting for Theo Boiten's Nachtjagd Archive series to arrive.

 

It's all good. Actually better than good. 

Nice!  Birds of a feather there.  I’ll have to check out the night fighter game.  Would be curious to know your thoughts on the Theo Boiten book when it arrives.  I have his earlier one called Blenheim Strike and it’s a treasure. 

[dburne]

I am about ready to crap can this flight sim.

One minute it's fine, next with no changes it is a total stutter fest. This is nuts.

 

Edit: Yeah this one I think I am done with. This is totally nuts, can't even run it now a total slide show.

And this reducing the res down to like 2200x2200 per eye.

I did try doing a verify of Steam Integrity, it did that then it showed me needing all the world updates again, so I got them again.

Thinking the whole thing may just be borked now who knows.

If I uninstall it this time it will be the last time. I posted over on their forums will see if anybody can enlighten me a little on this.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by dburne

[ZachariasX]

I think the MS Store is about the most mismanaged thingy under the sun. Given the place it has and how "popular" it actually is, that tells a lot. All the issues mentioned in this thread about the sim are frequent occurrences, and most originate from the store and XBox side of things. That MSFS manages to get 2.5 stars in the store further calibrates how often it works. So far, I have been (mostly) lucky.

 

But that is just corporate life. A great product is the best place for applied mismanagement. You can't do this with things that are hard to maintain in the market.

[busdriver]

20 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

Would be curious to know your thoughts on the Theo Boiten book when it arrives.

 

Actually it's a newer series published by Red Kite Books. Fairly pricey. It's the kind of series with details I wish Martin Bowman could produce. 

 

 

 

[ZachariasX]

Some more flying with the DC-6. From Panama via La Paz to Lima and from then on... to an impromptu alternate in the friggin' Andes.

 

While it is getting panfully obvious that the current state of the SDK and its possibilities regarding the creation of a good FM are somewhat, ehm, restricted, this bloody flight sim world still still can make up for it. It can give you conditions that make you reconsider your flightplans.

 

But as a first leg, I filled her tanks with a good margin of fuel to bring me to La Paz. You can always dump fuel. Aerial refueling is not an option here.

 

 

My flight plan was to at least fly initially around the mountain ranges. As long as the plane is heavy, it is less desireable to make a try and fly above the weather, espacially when all that hard stuff like mountains might be in the weather. And I can dial in the NAV beacons over much farther distance.

 

 

"Live" flying gives me very early morning starts. Bloody thunderstorms. The crate s heavy and the runway is only 2.4 km. Worse, there are rather intimidating hills at the end of the runway. If I push it too hard and lose an engine... Better not think abou that.

 

 

After everyone in the cabin lifted their butts a bit after takeoff. I made it (barely) over the hills and I'm turning toward my desired heading.

 

 

Weather is lousy, but I find a place to fly. As the sun rises, it also clears up a bit. at least above 18k ft. altitude. I have almost no view of where I am going.

 

 

I cross what most likely is the Amazon river. But other than that, it is a sea of clouds.

 

 

It clears up once the terrain under me starts to rise. Near Cusco, I have a view of the Ausangate, the white mountain at the far right of the white mountains, the Vilcanota mountain range. With a height of 6'348 meters, a cruising altitude of about 21k ft suddenly doesn't seem that high anymore.

 

 

All that high altitude flying uses a lot of fuel. Flying over Lake Titicaca means I have only a short way to go, so Iim fine.

 

 

Tuning in to La Paz tower brought a bad surprise. I wanted to make a straight in approach uing the ILS. But tower sends me around the other way. It seems windy down there.

 

 

Coming up the valley back over the cliff indeed made things interesting, but once you have her in trim on apprach, it's fine. A looooong runway helps as well.

 

 

A good arrival.

 

 

Slight detour to come in from the other side. As said, still a good arrival.

 

However.

 

Taking off again was an issue. I had to make a prolonged stay here, because first, the aircraft would freeze up like a popsickle and then it was impossible to start the engine at this altitude. I waited and tried again when it was warmer. At least it wouldn't freeze over on the ramp, but the engines were impossible to start, even auto start failed.

 

..Then... *PMDG updates*... Lo and Behold, I could start the aircraft.

 

Unfortunately by then, I was tasked to fly to Lima. About the max distance that a sane fuel load would allow if you have passengers on board. A bit of a backtrack on my course. But since it was close, I figured going with very little fuel and stay on the low blower until I crossed the Andes. It restricted my max. altitude in practise to ~17'000 ft. But that should work. Right?

 

 

Lining up, toggle water for wet start... slowly max. throttle... WHATT??? I get about 42 inches MAP and less BMEP that I would set on normal cruise! I get nowhere near where water injection would be needed. Slowly, slowly it gets faster. These are the shortest 4 km I have ever seen. There are houses at the end of that runway.

 

 

I lift her with brute force, but she manages.

 

 

I have to ease up quickly on the elevator. It felt like skimming the rooftops. As soon as I go over the hillside I dive her to get some more speed. Ugh... I shouldn't have put all that baggage aboard.

 

 

I turn her around and fly back the way I came. I can go to about 16'000 ft., less than expected...

 

 

Flying on the low blower around Cusco. Throttle firewalled. I shall have it much easier past these hills.

 

 

Shall I? All I brought with me is the heading course. I figured I just go that way until I hit the coast. Ok, where's the chart? I hope there's VORs in these clouds and not mountains.

 

 

I was lucky. That was hen I saw the ground again. Thank God. And the ILS. This is Lima, in NEVER rains here! I was there when it rained. They told me that it was raining because I didn't notice it. But then I noticed a very slight drizzle. If it was really reaining, like, rain in England, then this place would have been shut down. There is no drainage in the streets. At least none that I could see.

 

 

And another one like me at the gate. If you buy an aircraft, MSFS uses them to place at airports you visit...

 

 

That was interesting, but not too hard.

 

But now, I want to fly to Rio de Janeiro. That really stretches it in terms of distance and climb. So I filled her to the gills. No space for many passengers then. But At least I can take off from sea level and have all the power.

 

 

Weather is still miserable. It's not raining, but the view is... not optimal.

 

 

Taking off. The worst of it is really just over the airport. Where else?

 

 

I climb at high power settings, I'm trying to push it. And... *pooofffff* my engines break. All of them. I suddenly get only a fraction of power from them and I am so heavy I can barely hold altitude. I can't get off this plateau. Where to go? Where? There's an airport, the map says.. But I can't spot it after turning in that direction. I get some power back and I turn toward La Paz. But I cannot hold my altitude. There's another airport on the map, not far, with an ILS, yey!! I might find that one. But with these mountains, tuning that localizer in will be difficult...

 

 

I know that the airport is to left of that lake. Andahuaylas (SPHY), 2.48 km of runway, I should be fine. But the crate is still about 50 tons in weight. This is the first time that I actually dump fuel on the DC-6. I open the floor panel and pill the handles, hoping to lose enough to make for a safe landing.

 

 

Thank God for the ILS. Where is that bloody runway?

 

 

There it is. Engines are almost dead now, but I manage to stay in the glide slope. Tanks are almost empty and I close the dump valves.

 

 

As soon as I touch the ground, I hit prop reverse ("lower water rudder" function to map on a button, for the ones interested) and power up as much as the engines still give me and I come to a stop in time. Then I taxi to the parking. Puh, that was a busy time from the engine failures to touchdown.

 

 

I didn't even make it as far as back to La Paz from Lima. My first reaction was taking a larger airport one things went south. The only one was Coronel FAP Alfredo Mendívil Duarte Airport (SPHO), but that one only has an NDB as a beacon. Once I could get some power back from the engines, I thought I might make it back to La Paz, but no way and Andahuaylas (SPHY) was the last resort. With an ILS. Set descend power (about all I had left) and intercept the ILS some 4'500 ft. above the airfield at 15 nm distance and then make a normal approach. You can even set the Sperry to follow the ILS. Correct power and flaps settings usually then make for a good arrival.

 

Now, there I am. I wanted to go to Rio and now I am stuck on an airport with half the runway of La Paz. At least I am at 1'500 ft. lower altitude. One has to look at the positive side of things as well.

 

But for now, I have to repair my "very tough engines" again.

[DD_Arthur]

Love it!