Microsoft Flight Sim 2020

[Gambit21]

@AndyJWest How would you rate the water/landing physics? Believable?

 

I have a soft spot for float planes and flying boats.

[Avyx]

I would pay 3 x the price of any WW2 IL 2 Sturmovik aircraft, to fly with exactly the same flight model, on MSFS 2020 

No guns, no rockets, no weapons at all 

Only the amazing aerodynamics IL 2 has

Not even DCS world can match the WW2 aerodynamics IL 2 Sturmovik has it 

That's just my opinion 

What do you think, guys? 

[Uufflakke]

17 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

I have a soft spot for float planes and flying boats.

 

I would love to see a seaplane  in IL2 BOX.

The Ar 196 to name one.

 

[AndyJWest]

22 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

@AndyJWest How would you rate the water/landing physics? Believable?

 

I have a soft spot for float planes and flying boats.

 

As of now, the MSFS water physics seem rather simplistic. I think the XCub mod makes a better job of it than the stock Icon A5 though. You have to be fairly careful landing, as coming down too hard can make it bounce, then pitch down as it lands again, digging the floats in, which results in a crash (assuming you've not disabled them). 

 

There are no visible wake graphics, and waves don't seem to have much effect, though you don't notice that so much from the cockpit.

[Lusekofte]

3 hours ago, Gambit21 said:

@AndyJWest How would you rate the water/landing physics? Believable?

 

I have a soft spot for float planes and flying boats.

I agree on Andy' s remark.

It is however believeable but not dangerous. Ground handeling is in my point of view remarkable easy compared to other sims, even taildtagggers . I bought the L 19 and tested its floats. I liked it, and that is enough for me

[Feathered_IV]

I noticed the devs listed water landings as one of the features they are working on, so there’s something to look forward to there. 

[Stoopy]

3 hours ago, Avyx said:

I would pay 3 x the price of any WW2 IL 2 Sturmovik aircraft, to fly with exactly the same flight model, on MSFS 2020 

No guns, no rockets, no weapons at all 

Only the amazing aerodynamics IL 2 has

Not even DCS world can match the WW2 aerodynamics IL 2 Sturmovik has it 

That's just my opinion 

What do you think, guys? 

 

Fully agree. I got into MFS2020 pretty good at the start and even did some repaints for the Bonanza but for the last 4 months I only launch it to install updates when they come out (like today).

 

No comparison to IL2's outstanding flight characteristics in my opinion.   Being addicted to this stupid mission editor doesn't hurt either. ?

[Feathered_IV]

6 hours ago, Avyx said:

I would pay 3 x the price of any WW2 IL 2 Sturmovik aircraft, to fly with exactly the same flight model, on MSFS 2020 

No guns, no rockets, no weapons at all 

Only the amazing aerodynamics IL 2 has

Not even DCS world can match the WW2 aerodynamics IL 2 Sturmovik has it 

That's just my opinion 

What do you think, guys? 

For me, I’m not so interested in flying what are essentially toothless warbirds in FS2020.  What I would really be looking for are the classic touring aircraft. Golden Age stuff, such as the Dragon Rapide, DC-3 or Lockheed Electra etc. 

[Gambit21]

6 hours ago, Uufflakke said:

 

I would love to see a seaplane  in IL2 BOX.

The Ar 196 to name one.

 

 

Well if it was a combat sim, make mine an A6M-2 N "Rufe"

Not that I'd complain about the Ar 196 mind you...although a float Ju-52...even better.

 

 

 

If it's a civilian sim, make it a Grumman G-111 or similar.

 

 

http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/57/0000057257.jpg

http://www.aerialvisuals.ca/Airframe/Gallery/0/57/0000057257.jpg

Edited March 10, 2021 by Gambit21

[AndyJWest]

Gambit21, you know about the freeware Grumman Goose I discussed earlier? 

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/54212-microsoft-flight-sim-2020/?do=findComment&comment=1039724

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/initial-release-grumman-goose-g21a-redux-ii/338063?u=thatajwguy

 

Not really up to latest MSFS standards, graphically, and the flight model is rather odd too, but it's free, so might be worth a look. Seems to be on the back burner development-wise, for the moment, but it is at least useable. 

 

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

I think I’d want this one for visiting far flung places and exotic locations. 
 

[Lusekofte]

Dream mode "on"

Edited March 10, 2021 by 216th_LuseKofte

[ZachariasX]

I only care for „toothless“ warbirds only if they have study level sytems modelling. These are challenging aircraft to operate if things are not going perfectly. Without those quirks, these are boring planes. Boring as any other aircraft with a modest implementation. If I just wanted fast aircraft and doing maneuvers, BoX and DCS serve the purpose well. In MSFS, the bar far higher. Scott really set the bar for warbird implementation with his Accusim addons. Below that, I couldn‘t care less anymore.

 

I very much miss his beautiful Connie. Ideally, that would have been the plane of choice for a world tour. All steam gauges and a very primitive autopilot. (Doing a world tour in a plane without autopilot I’d consider an act of self hurt.) The B377 would also have been nice, but less so. Being able to fly at these altitudes efficiently is truly a game changer and it makes the game a tad easy for fun. But you can always set your challenge accordingly.

[Hoots]

6 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

I only care for „toothless“ warbirds only if they have study level sytems modelling. These are challenging aircraft to operate if things are not going perfectly. Without those quirks, these are boring planes. Boring as any other aircraft with a modest implementation. If I just wanted fast aircraft and doing maneuvers, BoX and DCS serve the purpose well. In MSFS, the bar far higher. Scott really set the bar for warbird implementation with his Accusim addons. Below that, I couldn‘t care less anymore.

 

I very much miss his beautiful Connie. Ideally, that would have been the plane of choice for a world tour. All steam gauges and a very primitive autopilot. (Doing a world tour in a plane without autopilot I’d consider an act of self hurt.) The B377 would also have been nice, but less so. Being able to fly at these altitudes efficiently is truly a game changer and it makes the game a tad easy for fun. But you can always set your challenge accordingly.

Accusim raised the bar so high, basically everything else is just a way of waiting for it to come to FS2020 for me. Nice waiting don’t get me wrong, but still waiting. 

[Lusekofte]

I agree on the study perfection level part.

I wont rise my eyebrow for anything else.

Getting a WW2 bomber with realistic FM  would make me fly to Germany at 30000 feet , then return , several times. 

But at this stage I do no serious flying, I fly a light bird between mountains over boulevards and enjoy the scenery. No flight is longer than I do in any other sim. I do not do mod's, just because I am not motivated.

I want it handed over in a plate, push a button and get it

[busdriver]

7 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Getting a WW2 bomber with realistic FM  would make me fly to Germany at 30000 feet , then return , several times. 

 

The only WWII bomber that will do  I would want to do that in is the Mosquito 

 

I also bought the L-19 Bird Dog, a fun little airplane.

Edited March 10, 2021 by busdriver
my glaring error of high altitude WWII bombers

[ZachariasX]

B-29?

[busdriver]

4 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

B-29?

 

Touche mon ami. 

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, busdriver said:

 

I also bought the L-19 Bird Dog, a fun little airplane.

 

For when you’re in the mood to get your ‘Danny Glover’ on!

 

Of course being a civilian sim you’ll have to settle for playing Bat21 over a school yard or little league game.

 

”I draw fire from everything from tan bark to baseballs!”

 

Good times.

 

 

[DBFlyguy]

1 hour ago, Gambit21 said:

 

For when you’re in the mood to get your ‘Danny Glover’ on!

 

Of course being a civilian sim you’ll have to settle for playing Bat21 over a school yard or little league game.

 

”I draw fire from everything from tan bark to baseballs!”

 

Good times.

 

 

 

Entertaining movie with some cool flying but absolutely nothing like the actual story.  Would love to see a "remake" of Bat21 someday more based on what happened especially since Tom Norris (the actual rescuer of Hambleton) has such an amazing story

[Gambit21]

3 hours ago, DBFlyguy said:

 

Entertaining movie with some cool flying but absolutely nothing like the actual story.  Would love to see a "remake" of Bat21 someday more based on what happened especially since Tom Norris (the actual rescuer of Hambleton) has such an amazing story

 

So add it to my book list is what you're saying.

Done.

[Ribbon]

????????

[Lusekofte]

Wonder if that B17 is worth installing

[Ribbon]

8 hours ago, 216th_LuseKofte said:

Wonder if that B17 is worth installing

Guy commenting it being a bit hassle to import manually from FSX to msfs2020.

Haven't fly FSX so i don't know how well it is developed regarding clickpit and FM.

For me it just looks beautiful and i hope we get a sim where we can fly b17....il2, dcs or msfs going for ww2 combat version.

[DBFlyguy]

Anyone checked out the new T-45 yet?  I'm kinda tempted to make this my first payware aircraft purchase...

 

 

 

Also looking forward to the T-45C mod for DCS whenever that finally gets released!

Edited March 12, 2021 by DBFlyguy

[AndyJWest]

9 minutes ago, DBFlyguy said:

Anyone checked out the new T-45 yet?  I'm kinda tempted to make this my first payware aircraft purchase...

 

Also looking forward to the T-45C mod for DCS whenever that finally gets released!

 

Yeah, I've been rather tempted by the MSFS T-45 myself, though having a free one coming for DCS has made me hold off buying for now. The MSFS one certainly looks very well modelled, though there seem to have been framerate issues for some people. 

[DBFlyguy]

6 minutes ago, AndyJWest said:

 

Yeah, I've been rather tempted by the MSFS T-45 myself, though having a free one coming for DCS has made me hold off buying for now. The MSFS one certainly looks very well modelled, though there seem to have been framerate issues for some people. 

 

Yeah, I'm wondering if the frame issues are just due to the sim itself, it seems there have been some performance issues with sim update 3.  The DCS version isn't coming until they get a chance to see how it plays with version 2.7, hopefully that isn't more than another month or two out though

[Tektolnes]

1 hour ago, DBFlyguy said:

Anyone checked out the new T-45 yet?

 

Was tempted but apparently they're advising that in order for the HUD to display properly that you need to switch off TAA which I don't fancy doing. The HUD isn't collimated either due to SDK limitations but nothing they can do about that until Asobo fixes that. If and when they sort those two things out I'd probably go for it but I'll leave it for now.

[Lusekofte]

8 hours ago, =VARP=Ribbon said:

Guy commenting it being a bit hassle to import manually from FSX to msfs2020.

Haven't fly FSX so i don't know how well it is developed regarding clickpit and FM.

For me it just looks beautiful and i hope we get a sim where we can fly b17....il2, dcs or msfs going for ww2 combat version.

If it is A2A B17 it was the best of its time. But I aint doing half mods in this, it might be worth while, but I am not motivated.

But boy I would be all over a full fidelity B anything bomber

[Tektolnes]

Taking off from Loitokitok airport with Mount Kiliminjaro shrouded in cloud in the background. From here it was 100nm up to Nairobi. Looking at my track on LittleNavMap my hand flying was a bit all over the place but got there in the end.

 

 

 

From Nairobi headed more or less north to fly over Mount Kenya. The weather didn't play nice so didn't get a great view. Didn't hit the mountain at least so I'll take that.

 

 

 

From Meru it was time to head west towards Eldoret and then over the northern end of Lake Victoria which at almost 60,000 sqkm is the largest tropical lake in the world. Definitely looked huge when flying over - seemed more like a sea. Came into land then at Entebbe where I checked to see if the bullet holes were still visible in the old control tower from the 1976 Israeli commando raid. They were not and I'll be issuing my demand for a refund from Microsoft forthwith for this lamentable oversight.

 

 

 

[ZachariasX]

Another three legs on my world trip. This is the one where I needed dynamic soaring in order not only to make it, but to stay alive.

 

From Kabul to Ashgabat, capital city of Turkmenistan. The weather got somewhat nicer and I felt it good enaough to leave this sad plache and make it oner the Hindu Kush. Let's see what this is all about.

 

 

The idea was to cross that Hindi Kush direction Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport (still Afghanistan), and from there to Mary, an oasis city in this bloody desert behind the mountains. From there to Ashgabat.

 

 

The weather looked good along the route as well between departure and destination airport.

 

 

I did get in the mood for some sightseeing before turning on course.

 

 

Situated like in a flat bowl, surrounded by mountains. If it had a tower, it could be Mordor. But I guess they don't need a tower for such. The problem is now that I have to go where those mountains meet those clouds. I get off a direct course and work the heading bug such that I venture toward what looks like a little blue gap between mountains and clouds.

 

 

For not getting lost, I remain on a "From" radial from Kabul, the only station I receive. I am at max power and climb... and I feel like raising my butt in the seat over the pass.

 

 

Made it, but barely. At least the mountains are high enough to keep the clouds with them and the sky opens up. I need to make a right turn around that mountain I just passed to get back on course. Toward to where all those white mountains are...

 

 

I keep on climbing, but the average ground level below me is climbing as well. In the meantime, I am nearing 13'000 ft altitude and it is really windy. It becomes hard to maintain the flight level, dynamic up and downdrafts set my altitude now, but I give it everything I have.

 

 

It becomes rather evident, despite all optimism, I can NEVER make it across. And there is nowhere to go but turn back.

 

 

Let's see what this ridge will give me. Once I'm across that, I'm almost there. Diving a bit to keep the airspeed up, as it is very bumpy here.

 

 

Yes. baby! This was the kick I needed.

 

 

As i soldier on north toward Mazar-i-Sharif, the average heigh of the mountais drop and I gradually descend along.

 

 

It is getting a bit couldy, a narrow layer of clouds emerges at about 7000 ft. But I can make out my waypoint Mazar-i-Sharif International Airport. Mazar-i-Sharif translates into "the tomb of the prince", in reference to a blue tiled shrine in the center of the city, the Shrine of Hazrat Ali also known as the "Blue Mosque". Some kilometers nort of the city, there is the Amu Darya river. This river is one of the two rivers that flow into the Aral Sea. Or what is left of it, after extensive cotton platations (etc.) in that desert use a big portion of the rivers water.

 

Now I turn toward Mary. I hope I will get the beacon soon. Else, there is not much help for orientation besides dead reckoning. As Mary is an oasis city located on the Murgab River should be at least easily identifiabe, as the river cuts the Karakum Desert in half. The silk road for good reason passes through Mary. The desert is a sea of sand about as large as 300'000 km2. It covers most of Turkmenistan.

 

 

I fly by compass only, no signal deractable on the localizers.

 

 

Suddenly, like drawn by pencil, the desert ends and there are green fields. I must have reached Murgab River. Finally I pick up the localizer from Mary International Airport.

 

 

Amazingly, I wasn't too far off, there was little wind. Mary in the distance between the two airports. I take course to Ashgabat. that I pick up the localizers only very close to the airports is annoying. But be it.

 

 

Made it, Ashgabat. In the distance one can see the Kopet Dag Mountains. Behind them is Iran.

 

 

I'll go for ILS approach. I'm not unhappy after the experiences over the Hindu Kush that things are easy now.

 

 

Another airport of funny ramps.

 

 

So, where did I fly? it is obvious that the Hindu Kush required some creativity. I must say of all mountain ranges, It has been the hardest to cross. This due to the sheer lack of valleys in north - south direction. It is just wall after wall. If the weather wouldn't have been as forthcoming, it would have been simply impossible to cross it with the C172. After some wrong bearing enroute to Mary that I eventually corrected (bloody compas creep), I made it in surprisingly direct manner.

 

From Ashgabat to Teheran is next.

Edited March 13, 2021 by ZachariasX

[Feathered_IV]

Wow that is insane.  How amazing that you can do something like that now with a flight sim, straight out of the box and with no extra money down. 

[ZachariasX]

Next leg is to Teheran. This is the one where my C172 turned into a glider.

 

The ramps have not been very hospitable and I decided to leave as soon as I topped up the tanks.

 

 

The weather is not really great, very cloudy, ceiling about 1'500 ft. I'm sitting here at ~700 ft. QNH. This is supposed to be a desert and I am sitting clouds and rain.

 

 

The plan is to find a gap in clouds and climb high enough to make it across those Kopet Dag Mountains. I would need 10'000 ft. to do so. Anything is better than sleeping in a ramp (it was about freezing during the night, -6°C) and I am looking forward for the cabin heater to taw me.

 

 

Off I go. There's lots of rain but at least it is not that windy.

 

 

Oh no! As I hit could level, my poor Cessna freezes over and I have to drop out of the clouds again. At last when I fly at about 1'000 ft, it slowly taws again, but with that ice it is problematic even mainatining level. Still, I am obstinate enough for making several tries.

 

 

No joy. It freezes over all the time and I have problems getting her to fly again before I'd hit the farm.

 

 

I give up and just venture east to stay clear of those mountains. My printed map tells me that near the Caspian See there is a gap and I can go through that slot. My hope still is that this bloody ice cloud will end somewhere so I can climb and go on a direct route. The Cessna twas very slowly and I can reduce power.

 

I had plenty of gas for the trip, but now I am really worried about the fuel left. Goofing around over Ashgabat cost me a lot of fuel.

 

 

I reach the Caspian Sea as planned and finally I can pick up some beacons on the localizer, both Gorgan (OING) and Dascht-E Naz (OINZ). Just south of them is now another hump for me to cross, the Alborz. I count on 10'000 ft being enough to cross that. As I approach Gorgan, my fuel warnings light up.

 

 

What to do now? I could land in Gorgan, refuel and then go to Teheran. On the other hand, I said I go to Teheran, this means I'm going to Teheran. Near the southern shore of the Caspian Sea, clouds disapear (mostly) and I add power for a fast climb.

 

 

Approaching the mountains, cluds get denser again. But at least this time I am above them already.

 

 

I have 10 gallons left, fuel warning on. Maybe 8'000 ft will be enough to make it across? I hope that by having a very light aircraft by now, I can save more on power to extend my flight time. Still I am aware that below, under the clouds, there is absolutely no place to land the aircraft if I venture on from here. I am just over Dascht-E Naz.

 

I press on.

 

 

8'000 ft. did I say? I am climbing with everything I have and those moutains start to rise through the cloud layer. And in the background, this monumental pyramid appears.

 

 

The ground rises faster than my climb is. Again, I try the ridge for help, but as it is not really windy, I get no help. I cannot make it across. And my fuel gauges are pointing on almost empty now.

 

 

Up at about 12'000 ft, I barely make the turn with the stall warning going off and I need to bleed some of my little altitude to make it.

 

 

I make a wide turn, climbing almost to 14'000 ft. and I make it across. By now I have learned that this is Mount Damavand, the highest peak of Iran, rising up to 18'606 ft. It seems I really had chosen the most idiotic way across that mountain range. I just tried my luck and I was directly heading for the highest peak. It is the 12th most prominent mountain peak in the world!

 

 

At least now ground level is dropping rapidly, but my fuel gauge says "E". It is still running but for how long? I will keep any inch of altitude until it gets quiet on my. Maybe 60 miles to Teheran. I never tried gliding this plane and AFAIR I should maintain some 65 kias for best glide.

 

I am roughly 1.8 miles above ground... if that crate makes 1:10 that gives me 18 miles. Theoretically.

 

 

Now it happened.

 

There's this famous Swiss song about a pilot and his passenger flying in the alps, the pilot in front, passenger in the back and the passenger sees that they are almost out of fuel, so he yells at the pilot to go for a landing, the pilot yelling back that you wouldn't be understanding him because of the noise. This shouting would go back and forth until it is all quiet. And as they could have understood each other, they both shut up.

 

Now, Teheran is in front of me, but Imam Khomeini International Airport is on the far side of town, a good 40 miles away. Knowing I will not be able to make it half way, I'm looking now for other options close to me while I trim the Cessna to 65 kias.

 

 

I am lucky, not too far off, there is Tehran/Doshan Tappeh AB and I can reach it with a fair amount of altitude reserve. Well, everything I really need for a controlled landing. One thing to keep in mind with this Cessna, if your engine quits, so does your artificial horizon. There is no gliding in clouds.

 

 

An easy glider landing with a windmilling prop.

 

 

I have enough speed to even roll off to the taxiway. Funny enough, as soon as you come to rest like this, the sim pops up the logbook by itself, you don't have to turn off the avionics. Just above the Cessna you can see the pointed top of Mount Damavand where I came from.

 

That was something. In two consecutive flights, I needed glider pilot skills. I think it is a very unerappreciated skill. I know some that just sit behind their engine and hope for the best. I frown at that.

 

 

I certainly deviated a lot from my intended route. You can even see where I had to detour Mount Damavand.

 

 

My engine quit just about when I entered this map region. As I was descending, I had to get clear of those mountains. I'd much rather land on a road than on the hill. passing them, I saw my to be alternate and dived for that one. The two other airports were out of glinding range.

 

------

 

The next leg to Shota Rustaveli Tbilisi International Airport (UGTB) was easy and the one without unexpected things happening. With full fuel load plenty of range reserve in good weather, it was no problem.

 

 

Teheran is huge, the scenery impressive... but as for the city itself, in this sim it is rather bland. If there was ever something that shows how interesting it can be, then I found it in the movie "Taxi".

 

 

There is little to this scenery besides a great view of the mountain ranges. But at least this time I can tune in the localizer from quiet far and navigation is easy.

 

 

I can even pick up the ILS from rather far away and go in for direct approach to Tbilisi.

 

 

I have to decide where to go from here. But after all these desert experiences, I am looking for some nicer scenery. Greece and Italy are probably the way to go.

 

[DD_Arthur]

Beautiful, no problems with frame rates on my system. 

Best flown from the instructors seat which enjoys upstairs in the circle type views while the pupil gets stuffed in the orchestra stalls.

 

 

Not gonna' give up my Gina for this though

[AndyJWest]

Please stop posting things like that, my willpower will run out...

[DD_Arthur]

Sorry?

 

It’s not all roses though. Something is going on with the trim. For a carrier trainer it’s actually very difficult to achieve the correct AoA for landing!

 

[AndyJWest]

Is it a CG issue? The ability to adjust the empty CG position was added in the last update. I've not tried it out with anything yet, but it might help there.

[Monostripezebra]

I am currently having so much fun with the Bleriot..

 

Would any of you like to join on the 25. July to do the channel crossing aniversary? Sunrise in Calais is 6:09 MEZ thats when I would like to fly over..

 

Here is trying a bit of slope soaring in it:

 

 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Monostripezebra

[SYN_Vander]

17 minutes ago, Monostripezebra said:

I am currently having so much fun with the Bleriot..

 

Would any of you like to join on the 25. July to do the channel crossing aniversary? Sunrise in Calais is 6:09 MEZ thats when I would like to fly over..

 

Here is trying a bit of slope soaring in it:

 

 

Excellent idea! Remind me again start of July. This aircraft is defo on my Wishlist...

[AndyJWest]

@SYN_Vander The Bleriot shouldn't be on anyone's watchlist: everyone should own it already. ?

 

I flew it across the Pyrenees just yesterday.  47 nautical miles, from Itxassou France (LFIX) to Sangüesa Spain (LESG). It took me 1 1/2 hours, and I reached the astonishing altitude of 4650 ft!

 

As for re enacting the Channel crossing, it would be fun to try a mass flight. Is the idea it to do it with live weather? That might be tricky, given how variable the Channel weather can be, even in July.