[Fixed. Thank you devs!] Sorry if I'm harsh, but fighter/bomber careers suck

[Sybreed]

On 8/23/2019 at 2:26 PM, Gambit21 said:

Thanks - I won’t be flying it, just looking under the hood at the mission logic.

 

found anything interesting?

[Gambit21]

2 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

 

found anything interesting?

 

No time to look yet, and when I do I'll report to the devs if I find anything amiss that hasn't already been reported.

As LukeFF and busdriver have indicated, we've reported the waypoint/speed bug already.

 

I'm interested in seeing what the waypoints in your mission are actually set at, but won't have a chance to poke around there for another few days.

I have other mission editor tasks to get my head around first.

[Sybreed]

21 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

No time to look yet, and when I do I'll report to the devs if I find anything amiss that hasn't already been reported.

As LukeFF and busdriver have indicated, we've reported the waypoint/speed bug already.

 

I'm interested in seeing what the waypoints in your mission are actually set at, but won't have a chance to poke around there for another few days.

I have other mission editor tasks to get my head around first.

ahh fair enough, I won't disturb you further then.

[Sybreed]

I can confirm the same thing happen in PWCG. AI will go fast if they need to climb, but once they reach the required altitude, they'll slow down to 320-330 km/h. That's for a BF-109 squadron in a patrol mission.

[Yogiflight]

On 9/2/2019 at 7:59 PM, Sybreed said:

I can confirm the same thing happen in PWCG. AI will go fast if they need to climb, but once they reach the required altitude, they'll slow down to 320-330 km/h. That's for a BF-109 squadron in a patrol mission.

This should not happen with the 109s. They usually fly the correct cruising speed. But we had this happen earlier with patrol missions. Post it in the PWCG section with the mission zip, then Patrick can have a look what is wrong with it. But yes it happens with the 190 in PWCG as well. It obviously is hard coded and needs to addressed by the Devs. I hope for the next update.

[Sybreed]

the patch notes mentioned something about formations again, did anyone test career mode to see if the slow formations problem was still there??

 

I doubt it because everyone is probably trying the new toys, but I might as well ask xD.

 

I'll try to hop in this weekend otherwise.

[Sybreed]

well I know spotting is currently the new craze, but yeah. Careers for Fighter/bombers still go at super slow speed. It's not as bad as before and the planes were going 330-350km/h instead of 290 km/h... but they're still supposed to reach 400km/h if not 450km/h. It's better, but it still makes fighter bombers careers kind of a pain because you spend so much time just flying when it could be 20-30% faster.

[Gambit21]

23 hours ago, Sybreed said:

well I know spotting is currently the new craze, but yeah. Careers for Fighter/bombers still go at super slow speed. It's not as bad as before and the planes were going 330-350km/h instead of 290 km/h... but they're still supposed to reach 400km/h if not 450km/h. It's better, but it still makes fighter bombers careers kind of a pain because you spend so much time just flying when it could be 20-30% faster.

 

Yep

Everything  has this problem.

Reported in beta.

[Sybreed]

42 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep

Everything  has this problem.

Reported in beta.

did the devs acknowledge it or is it ignored?

[Gambit21]

5 minutes ago, Sybreed said:

did the devs acknowledge it or is it ignored?

 

They don’t ignore anything, but they also don’t have time to acknowledge everything with a post.

 

AI work is ongoing, that’s all I know.

[Letka_13/Arrow_]

After returning to the career, I can confirm that fighter/bomber aircraft are still flying very slow around 280-300 km/h, even the mission was set to 375 km/h at 500 meters.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Rudolph

[Sybreed]

So, I decided to fly the P-38 in career mode.

 

Interestingly, it goes at about 280mph or 448km/h for fighter bomber missions.

 

After noticing that, I decided to give my A-5 another shot. It still goes at 290-310 km/h.

 

Why do P-38s go faster?  Is the AI coded to go at "280" and doesn't take into account if it's mph or km/h?

 

I don't get it.

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Sybreed

[Sybreed]

a bit off topic but also kind of interesting: I'm getting the "misson completed - return to base" message much sooner in BoBP than in the other theaters. Is it related to the P-38 only? We'll have to test it out. The message appears so fast that my AI teammates don't even have the time to drop their 2nd bomb.

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

After noticing that, I decided to give my A-5 another shot. It still goes at 290-310 km/

This is a Focke Wulf thing. Other aircrafts don't have this issue. It is well known since quite some time, but obviously has no priority for the developers.

[Sgt_Joch]

On 11/10/2019 at 1:11 PM, Sybreed said:

So, I decided to fly the P-38 in career mode.

 

Interestingly, it goes at about 280mph or 448km/h for fighter bomber missions.

 

After noticing that, I decided to give my A-5 another shot. It still goes at 290-310 km/h.

 

Why do P-38s go faster?  Is the AI coded to go at "280" and doesn't take into account if it's mph or km/h?

 

I don't get it.

 

 

AI is programmed to fly at a set "cruise" speed which is different for each aircraft. You had the same issue in early days of BOM/BOS/BOK. It will be adjusted. Also seems to be a bug at play.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Sgt_Joch

[Sgt_Joch]

Just flew two AG career mission as wingman, P-38 and P-47. The AI flies at a bit below maximum cruise setting which is what you want, i.e. P-38s flew at 2500 rpm/43" and P-47s at 2350 rpm/36". The P-47 cruise speed could be bumped up a bit, but so far I don't see anything substantially wrong. You don't want the cruise speed between waypoints to be too high, otherwise the player will be forced to fly at combat power to keep up with his AI flight.

Edited November 13, 2019 by Sgt_Joch

[Sybreed]

Good news everyone, ViKs saw the file that showed the A5 bug and found what the problem was. It should be fix in the next patch or so!

[Sybreed]

Apparently, all aircraft could be affected. So expect the change to affect all future ground attack missions for all aircraft. Possibly. I don't want to draw too many conclusions. 

[Yogiflight]

I guess it will not only affect ground attack missions, because the too low cruising speed is in almost all mission types. The A8 cruising in fighter missions at 330km/h is definitely not better, than the A5 cruising at 300km/h in ground attack missions.

[Sybreed]

21 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I guess it will not only affect ground attack missions, because the too low cruising speed is in almost all mission types. The A8 cruising in fighter missions at 330km/h is definitely not better, than the A5 cruising at 300km/h in ground attack missions.

 

haven't tried the A8, so that's good to know. I don't know when they'll patch it, but an improvement across the board will be more than welcome.

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

 

haven't tried the A8, so that's good to know. I don't know when they'll patch it, but an improvement across the board will be more than welcome.

Absolutely. But if you like to fly alone and at night, you can fly the KG51 career with the A8 on the Rhineland map. Here the AI flies obviously pretty fast. My guess is 420km/h like in the mission VikS posted.

[Sybreed]

@Yogiflight

 

I think it might be fixed. I tried the same mission as the one I sent to Viks, and instead of going 300 km/h, my flight was going 380-390 km/h, almost at combat ATA!

 

I hope it's not placebo, but the issue might be fixed! Can you confirm?

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

@Yogiflight

 

I think it might be fixed. I tried the same mission as the one I sent to Viks, and instead of going 300 km/h, my flight was going 380-390 km/h, almost at combat ATA!

 

I hope it's not placebo, but the issue might be fixed! Can you confirm?

I hadn't tried it, as it was not mentioned in the update announcement. After I read your post, I was flying two A5 missions in the Kuban career and we were flying at cruising speeds up to 440km/h. But we were flying the default A5 with one SC250, not the U17 fighter bomber modification as it used to be, IIRC.

[Sybreed]

2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I hadn't tried it, as it was not mentioned in the update announcement. After I read your post, I was flying two A5 missions in the Kuban career and we were flying at cruising speeds up to 440km/h. But we were flying the default A5 with one SC250, not the U17 fighter bomber modification as it used to be, IIRC.

 

Hum as far as I know it looks like an improvement as well. Tell me if you have further results

Edited January 22, 2020 by Sybreed

[Sybreed]

Did some more tests, my flight never went above 400-410 kph. I don't know why yours went faster but still, I won't complain.

[LukeFF]

6 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

I hadn't tried it, as it was not mentioned in the update announcement. After I read your post, I was flying two A5 missions in the Kuban career and we were flying at cruising speeds up to 440km/h. But we were flying the default A5 with one SC250, not the U17 fighter bomber modification as it used to be, IIRC.

 

The first month of the Fw 190 career in Kuban will have the player flying the standard A-5, as the U17 mod was not built and delivered until May 1943.

[Yogiflight]

3 hours ago, Sybreed said:

Did some more tests, my flight never went above 400-410 kph. I don't know why yours went faster but still, I won't complain.

Maybe I'll fly one or two more missions this evening, but I mainly want to try the A8 in the BOBP career and try if the cruising speeds in PWCG are also influenced by this improvement.

[falle96]

I did a flight yesterday with the 34th IAP PVO, bombing mission. My flight was going around 400kmph+ en route. If there's a bug with the AI for fighter-bomber missions, it isn't universal.

[Yogiflight]

58 minutes ago, FarflungWanderer said:

If there's a bug with the AI for fighter-bomber missions, it isn't universal.

You mean the bug with too low cruising speed? This one was obviously solved with the last update. Very much appreciated, I must say. With that improvement it was one of the best updates ever, for me, as it made SP careers and Pat Wilson's campaigns flyable with joy again.

[falle96]

I've very much been enjoying Career mode with all of the AI improvements. Here's to many more!

[Sybreed]

2 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

You mean the bug with too low cruising speed? This one was obviously solved with the last update. Very much appreciated, I must say. With that improvement it was one of the best updates ever, for me, as it made SP careers and Pat Wilson's campaigns flyable with joy again.

Indeed. I stopped playing SP because it was driving me crazy. 

[Alexmarine]

3 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

You mean the bug with too low cruising speed? This one was obviously solved with the last update. Very much appreciated, I must say. With that improvement it was one of the best updates ever, for me, as it made SP careers and Pat Wilson's campaigns flyable with joy again.

 

Not sure about that, in my Bodenplatte career allied 109s are basically cruising at 0.9ATA and 2000RPM at low altitude and at short ranges....

[Yogiflight]

Just now, ACG_Alexmarine said:

 

Not sure about that, in my Bodenplatte career allied 109s are basically cruising at 0.9ATA and 2000RPM at low altitude and at short ranges....

I was flying a free hunt mission with the A8 yesterday, which before the update was flown with 330km/h, yesterday we were flying with 450km/h.

[Sybreed]

4 hours ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

 

Not sure about that, in my Bodenplatte career allied 109s are basically cruising at 0.9ATA and 2000RPM at low altitude and at short ranges....

Hmmm that's strange. I'll test it tomorrow. 

[Sybreed]

20 hours ago, ACG_Alexmarine said:

 

Not sure about that, in my Bodenplatte career allied 109s are basically cruising at 0.9ATA and 2000RPM at low altitude and at short ranges....

just launched a bodenplatte career in a 109. Yeah, my first mission was a bomber intercept, but planes were going 400km/h AND climbing. I had to use combat power to stick with them.

 

Will hopefully test a non intercept mission soon. I keep getting shot down by the escort fighters on that mission xD.

[Sybreed]

Had another mission where we needed to reach ground attackers... we were going 440km/h for the entire trip. I think it's fine honestly.

[Yogiflight]

On 1/24/2020 at 9:00 PM, Sybreed said:

just launched a bodenplatte career in a 109. Yeah, my first mission was a bomber intercept, but planes were going 400km/h AND climbing. I had to use combat power to stick with them.

But that doesn't mean anything. The climbing was never an issue. The 109s always were climbing with more than 400km/h, while the 190s climb with 270km/h. The issue for the 109s was, when they reached the mission altitude, they breaked down to 330 or something like this.

[sevenless]

On 1/24/2020 at 12:39 AM, Yogiflight said:

I was flying a free hunt mission with the A8 yesterday, which before the update was flown with 330km/h, yesterday we were flying with 450km/h.

 

They need to have a look at the 262s of KG 51 also. My squadmates are constantly flying with 450km/h regardless what orders I give them. A bit slow for the Jet and it also makes them susceptible for enemy interception. Once the sqadleader orders them to fly in formation they should fly at the same speed as the squadleader, which they don´t at present.

As a workaround at present I climb with them to up 4.000metres on my way to the target. Up that high we don´t get intercepted, but primarily it looks like as if the AI isn´t capable to follow orders of the human player.

[Yogiflight]

57 minutes ago, sevenless said:

 

They need to have a look at the 262s of KG 51 also. My squadmates are constantly flying with 450km/h regardless what orders I give them. A bit slow for the Jet and it also makes them susceptible for enemy interception. Once the sqadleader orders them to fly in formation they should fly at the same speed as the squadleader, which they don´t at present.

As a workaround at present I climb with them to up 4.000metres on my way to the target. Up that high we don´t get intercepted, but primarily it looks like as if the AI isn´t capable to follow orders of the human player.

From my experience, there are three issues. First, what you mentioned, the player's orders are not taken too seriously by AI, second, AI has quite some issues flying the 262 to its strenghts. With AI flightleader they fly with cruising speeds of 500-600km/h. Third, there is a problem with AI not holding formation, falling back, and making no effort to come back into the formation, which sometimes leads to them flying behind the flight, sometimes the flightleader flying a circle to bring them back into the formation.

And that they try to turnfight with the Spits, instead of flying back to base and let the 190 escort do their job, doesn't make it better either.

[Sybreed]

5 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

But that doesn't mean anything. The climbing was never an issue. The 109s always were climbing with more than 400km/h, while the 190s climb with 270km/h. The issue for the 109s was, when they reached the mission altitude, they breaked down to 330 or something like this.

 

They did keep 440km/h once they reached altitude in the 2nd mission. Unless you have different results, I think they're fine.

 

As for the ME262.... I think the issue is that cruise speeds are the same for most aircrafts (450km/h). I don't know if devs can change it for specific airplanes.