What's next?

[JonRedcorn]

9 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

Indeed 77.CountZero,

 

I personally don't believe PTO will ever become a part of IL-2 !?

It may become a completely seperate sim with a new engine and even payment model.

Unless we want to fly the Zeroes over Paris, Berlin and Moscow ... would make for a great SF movie though ! ?

 

  

 

I am curious why you think that?

 

This game engine isn't going anywhere, they are already doing major work to the way the engine renders distant objects and planes, I am sure they aren't about to throw away everything they are working on to make an entirely new game, matter of fact I'd say it's completely out of the realm of possibilities. A new payment model? I am not even sure what made you think of that. Also if anything a pacific map would probably be the easiest part of a PTO expansion.

[Feathered_IV]

Sorry for the off topic, but if anyone out there likes to keep their farts in jars so they can smell them later; please let me know by leaving a laughing emoji down there on the right. 

Edited September 10, 2019 by Feathered_IV
LukeFF

[simfan2015]

The reason I think PTO may not be part of IL-2 GB is because it simply does not fit in the European Theathre of war.

It would allow to fly the FC WWI planes over Midway and drive the TC early WWII tanks in ... Japan ???

They may prefer, as previous poster calls it,  "clean break" and not be tied to the present theatres.

A clean break would also mean that the way they charge for this new big endeavour could be different and something like  80 USD may not be enough

 as an admission fee. 

I may (and probably will) be mistaken because that would, as also mentioned above, mean an incredible investment in resources and time.

We may know for sure in a few months whether or not we will see PTO the next decade ... or not at all !???

 

Regards,

Stefaan

 

[Luftschiff]

I was under the impression that late war Mediterranean campaigns would also be severely affected by the same lack of data as with the Japanese planeset for the PTO.
Most of those late war Italian beasts (Oh how I'd love to fly them) were built in low numbers, had few tests and documentations survive the war, and in many cases no surviving aircraft either that I know of. Does anyone have a manual for the Reggiane 2005?

[EAF19_Marsh]

16 minutes ago, Luftschiff said:

Most of those late war Italian beasts (Oh how I'd love to fly them) were built in low numbers, had few tests and documentations survive the war, and in many cases no surviving aircraft either that I know of. Does anyone have a manual for the Reggiane 2005?

 

Italian Air Force museum at Lake Bracciano has probably as much of the data as exists:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Air_Force_Museum

[6FG_Big_Al]

I don't understand why people tend to not implement the Pacific in this engine anymore. Even the engine of DCS is "old as the hills" and will be continued and improved. Also, the Devs wouldn't bother to upgrade their engine to 100km visibility, highlighting extra ships for nothing.
Of course, this doesn't mean that this necessarily amounts to a Pacific scenario, it could also be other naval operations. But I think you can already see that we are going in one direction to align the sim more for such scenarios. And if you complain that Zeros could fly over Kuban please complain that you can fly Me-262 in Kuban/Moscow/Stalingrad. Or vice versa, if the Europe map is out, and you can start from Western Europe with Il-2 and Pe-2. Because there will be at least one server that will allow Russian airplanes and so it won't fit anymore.

 

[simfan2015]

7 minutes ago, 6FG_Big_Al said:

if the Europe map is out, and you can start from Western Europe with Il-2 and Pe-2

Indeed a valid point. And of course in DCS you can also e.g. fly WWII planes over Dubai and Las Vegas.

But still, making PTO a completely new, seperate, game would also make a lot of sense (too me anyway).

[Luftschiff]

Having worked on two game engines, and the first titles produced in those engines, believe me when I say that making a new engine is a massive undertaking that usually takes years to get to a state where a content team can churn out material like planes, FM's and maps in a timeframe approaching what we have now. It also usually takes at least a year before it is fit to use at all. With the size of this team and its reliance on making content to stay alive, a new engine (as opposed to say, updating the current engine) suggesting they start from scratch just to do the PTO is absolutely absurd to me. It's like saying Messerschmitt should destroy all their tools, jigs and plans and restart the entire production line when they moved from the F to the G model.

 

It's possible they'd have to update or rewrite parts of the engine to make the PTO, but I don't really see it. It's also possible they're sitting on a huge pile of money to support such a project, but I for one would prefer them to continue to furnish us with content at the current rate. 
 

 

 

[Danziger]

With all of the tweaking they have been doing under the hood and the little easter egg files in recent updates, I would say that all of the evidence is pointing to a late war eastern front scenario for the next battle.

[ITAF_Rani]

1 hour ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Italian Air Force museum at Lake Bracciano has probably as much of the data as exists:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Air_Force_Museum

If Devs are interested to develop italian planes, we have many contacts here in our italian community to find the correct data.

[simfan2015]

@Lufschiff,

 

OK, agree, but that might also mean we won't be seeing PTO anytime soon either way.

Those (PTO?) carriers were shooting at those planes, planes leaving, landing ... dunno what that would mean for an existing engine.

Have not seen anything like that in Kuban (ships, yes, but not Carrier Ops).

We can only what and see ...

 

[CountZero]

18 minutes ago, simfan2015 said:

@Lufschiff,

 

OK, agree, but that might also mean we won't be seeing PTO anytime soon either way.

Those (PTO?) carriers were shooting at those planes, planes leaving, landing ... dunno what that would mean for an existing engine.

Have not seen anything like that in Kuban (ships, yes, but not Carrier Ops).

We can only what and see ...

 

 

To me all things just point to PTO, and on top of that one with Carriers involved.

They can place more airplanes in air as every bomber just have one gunner, compared to multiple gunners of bombers we have now in game, so insted just 20-30 He-111s in SP you can have 50-60 or more D3A1s or SBD3s in SP.

 

They said they plan to incress vis distance for airplanes and ships to up to 100km and that includes ships wakes and contrails, that helps PTO to make spooting ships realistic, its not realy neccesary for any other area as it is for wast seas of PTO.

 

Then you dont have spend mutch time on working on maps so you can spend more time on work on ships neccesary, as they are basicly time spend on making realistic buildings, towns, airfirlds , citys and so on...

 

They posted they search for data on Zero, Val, Kate and that recon airplane, they dont need to tell us they got all neccesary data and are ready, who knows maybe they already colected all data they needed for thouse 4 airplanes.

 

Only thing i could see as problematic is numbers of flaks on Battleships and Carriers when all shooting at once, but this is also nothing they cant make work by alowing mission makers to activate/deactivate ships flaks (by % ) or even making their fire rate adjustable and so on like it was in il-2 1946... and optimising AAA movments or AI cost on procceses, if they incresed vis distances they can do anything they see neccesary with no big truble.

 

Also MacArthur left Philippines and come back 3 years later, Jason can do same posponed PTO in 2017 and come back to it in 2020

Edited September 9, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[Trooper117]

PTO, no... Korea or new Eastern Front, more than likely!

[CountZero]

Just now, Trooper117 said:

PTO, no... Korea or new Eastern Front, more than likely!

nah, they would not make Yak9s if next is another East front DLC wher Yak9 is in anyof them , so =0.025% for that to be next DLC, also Yak9s and Hurri as next collectable = PTO 97.41%.

Korea maybe, but only insted FC2, if they go for 3 DLC again, TC2+PTO+Korea  ?

[danielprates]

37 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

They said they plan to incress vis distance for airplanes and ships to up to 100km and that includes ships wakes and contrails, that helps PTO to make spooting ships realistic, its not realy neccesary for any other area as it is for wast seas of PTO

 

That passed through my head when they announced the new visibility ranges will include naval objects. Other than for vast bodies of water, it seems like an useless investment. Unless they are merely experimenting, of course, or just doing it to leave a door open for future use.

[Jonttu1]

4 hours ago, simfan2015 said:

The reason I think PTO may not be part of IL-2 GB is because it simply does not fit in the European Theathre of war.

It would allow to fly the FC WWI planes over Midway and drive the TC early WWII tanks in ... Japan ???

 

I really don't get this point. What vehicles you can use in whatever mission is up to the mission creator... Yeah you could fly WW1 planes over Midway or Japanese planes in Moscow. How is this any different from being able to fly 262s over Moscow in quick missions or something similar already? And there is plenty of overlap between allied planes at least in the PTO and ETO. We already have P-40, P-39 and A-20, Spit Mk Vb and might even be getting the Hurricane Mk IIb soon which all saw significant service in the Pacific. And there are many more planes that were more common in the Pacific, but also saw significant use in other theaters like Corsair, Wildcats and Hellcats in the atlantic with the Royal Navy or Catalina flying boats... 

 

Separating the pacific into it's own game would just be a waste of this overlap potential.

[simfan2015]

@Jonttu1,

 

Yes, you bring up valid points !

I hope your reasoning is the same as the IL-2 Devs though !?

Some past remarks might indeed point to PTO as the new Battleground ... and I truly hope so too.

However, IMHO, an additional future Western-Europe expansion (including 'Berlin' ... to please the most probably majority of Russian customers?) might make more sense at this time !?

 

Regards,

Stefaan

 

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by simfan2015

[Trooper117]

Past remarks have clearly shown that Korea if anything was more likely mate...

[Redwo1f]

Honestly, there is no point in arguing at all anymore - the decision is already made. 

 

The developers have not recently asked for community input, and none of us are going to influence it now whatsoever. Some people are going to be absolutely correct, some are going to be completely wrong - there is no point in bring in any animosity. There is also a lot of psychological biases, as with life, influencing people's beliefs.

https://www.verywellmind.com/cognitive-biases-distort-thinking-2794763

 

...we will all find out soon enough. Enjoy what we have, look forward to Bottenplatte - and rejoice that we have a developer willing to make a combat flight simulator (and doing a pretty decent job of it overall).

[JonRedcorn]

5 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Past remarks have clearly shown that Korea if anything was more likely mate...

I'll bet you 100 usd it doesn't go to Korea. Let me know if you're interested. 

[RedKestrel]

8 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

PTO, no... Korea or new Eastern Front, more than likely!

New Eastern front makes no sense with the rumored Yak-9 and  Yak-9T collector planes. That's one of the last main line fighters not yet modeled, they would need that for any new expansion for the Eastern Front. Same with the Hurricane. 

My guess is they will continue to develop collector planes suitable for the theatres they have already so that fans of those theatres don't feel neglected, but also focus on expanding the area and timeline to get the broadest interest.

My bets are: Normandy or other earlier West Front: Some aircraft overlap already there, get more teeth into the western theatre where they've only scratched the surface. On the plus side, somewhat familiar territory in terms of research and existing aircraft. This is the low hanging fruit.
Pacific: Improvements to plane and ship visiibility distances makes this more feasible. As always, problem is getting info on Japanese planes. Also, lots of 3d modeling work on ships. This would be a passion project, challenging but likely.
The wild card: Korea. They spent a lot of time on jet tech and high speed behaviour so this would be a good usage of it. I think we'll see this eventually, but I think its more likely when WWII is more tapped out.

 

[Cpt_Cool]

Maybe somebody who is better informed can answer my question. Supposing Midway is a on, other than maps, are there any significant assets which would be required to include both Coral Sea and Guadalcanal in one module? I believe the plane set would cover all three right?

[PikAss]

@Trooper117

7 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

Past remarks have clearly shown that Korea if anything was more likely mate…

 

So if you are so sure about that, why don't make bets?

 

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2019 at 4:59 PM, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Let's make a bet then, i bet the next game won't be Korea, it will be pacific. If i win you buy me the next game and if you win I will buy you the next game. And Jason wants pacific more.

 

 

[Trooper117]

Just calm down eh?... any kind of betting or gambling is a futile mugs game.

If you want to have a gentleman's bet then fine.

[Jason_Williams]

Guys,

 

I love ALL aspects and theaters of WWII. I would love to do them ALL assuming it was possible. My job is to create an achievable, marketable and compelling product that most current and new users would be interested in buying. I've diversified our product line a bit with FC1 and TC because as we keep moving forward, tough decisions on what or what not to build will become harder to swallow if your favorite theater isn't built. Deciding what to build is not easy. And deciding to not make something is even tougher because  you know someone will be disappointed.  A lot of planes are impossible to make flyable simply because we don't have the references or data to make them accurate or even close to accurate. I think the general public underestimates how hard it is to make a plane to our standards, and our standards, well visual standards at least, are not even as extreme as some other products are. Our other standards are quite high and some of the highest ever in a sim so don't take that the wrong way. And some maps are almost impossible to make too due to distances or just general lack of playability or lack of info. 

 

I have a plan for our next product and if we execute it as I hope, I think it will pretty awesome. The current dev. cycle stretched our ability to the max. and we have endured many unforeseen delays and issues out of our control. It's not been easy. I hope the next round is easier. One of our team members recently was in a bad car accident, and now he has a hematoma on his brain causing us to scramble for the next update. Very scary.

 

Eventually we will need to build a new engine, when that actually happens is not necessarily known yet. I don't believe in building from complete scratch these days. The biggest work would be in the area of visuals and terrain of course and graphics in general. That part may be from scratch. Everything else would be an evolution of sorts. That is the safest bet for us to stay alive for a long time.

 

Jason 

[namhee2]

I wish you all the best for your team member.
And thank you for your effort

[ZachariasX]

Thank you for that comment Jason! And may your team member get well soon!

[DD_Arthur]

Just now, namhee2 said:

I wish you all the best for your team member.
And thank you for your effort

 

Well said namhee.   Exactly this Jason.

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

New Eastern front makes no sense with the rumored Yak-9 and  Yak-9T collector planes. That's one of the last main line fighters not yet modeled, they would need that for any new expansion for the Eastern Front. Same with the Hurricane. 


 

There are still plenty of mainline Russian aircraft left to model to be able to be used in one final expansion + collectors for 44-45.

Yak-3, Yak-9U, La-7, Tu-2S, Il-2 Type 3, Il-10

At this point it is getting more and more difficult to fill up a German roster as you have 3 major nations ganging up on the Germans. Meanwhile with the Japanese it is largely a 1 v 1 affair with a bit of British sprinkled in.

Edited September 9, 2019 by =362nd_FS=RoflSeal

[CountZero]

21 minutes ago, Cpt_Cool said:

Maybe somebody who is better informed can answer my question. Supposing Midway is a on, other than maps, are there any significant assets which would be required to include both Coral Sea and Guadalcanal in one module? I believe the plane set would cover all three right?

From what could work as one:

Spoiler

 

The Battle of the Coral Sea, 4–8 May 1942
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1, F1M2  
F4F3/3A , SBD-3, TBD-1
One just generic all sea map 500kmx500km
Main Carriers:
Lexington and Yorktown, 
Shokaku and Zuikaku + Shoho

 

Battle of Midway, 4-7 June 1942
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1, F1M2
F2A-3, F4F-4 , TBD-1, SBD-3, TBF-1 , PBY-5
One map with Midway and sea 500x500km 
Main Carriers:
Enterprise, Hornet and Yorktown, 
Kaga, Akagi, Hiryu and Soryu

 

Battle of the Eastern Solomons, 24–25 August 1942
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1 , F1M2 
F4F4, SBD-3, TBF1 , 
One just generic all sea map 500kmx500km
Main Carriers:
Saratoga and Enterprise
Shokaku and Zuikaku + Ryujo

 

Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, 26 October 1942
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1/A2 , F1M2 , A6M3-32 
F4F4 ,SBD-3, TBF-1 ,  
One just generic all sea map 500kmx500km
Main Carriers:
Hornet and Enterprise
Shokaku and Zuikaku + Junyo

 

extra: 
Aleutians map with just focusing on Dutch Harbor area
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1 from Junyo and Ryujo
P-40E, PBY-5 

 

So you could have all that with one Midway centric DLC, and simple 3 maps (even add Guadalcanal and planset would work)
and base planset of 
A6M2-21, B5N2, D3A1 (A2 as modification), F1M2 and A6M3-32 
F2A-3, F4F-4 (F-3 as modification) , TBD-1, SBD-3, TBF-1  
AI PBY-5
and use existing P-40E for Aleutians

 

 

Best luck to team, most will probably buy what ever DLC is next as basicly its only shop in town doing good work to represent ww2 combat flying

[Redwo1f]

My thoughts and prayers are with the team member in the accident. In the end, this is just a video game - life, love, and family are what really matters. Wishing him a speedy recovery. 

[Jade_Monkey]

13 hours ago, Danziger said:

With all of the tweaking they have been doing under the hood and the little easter egg files in recent updates, I would say that all of the evidence is pointing to a late war eastern front scenario for the next battle.

 

Care to elaborate?

 

 

Thanks for sharing that Jason. Regardless of where the next expansion takes us, there is one thing we know: we are on good hands with you and the team. You have consistently underpromised and overdelivered and have addressed the vast majority of outstanding issues promptly despite having a very "delicate" and opinionated community. BoBP is shaping up nicely and there are still some features that we have only been teased about in the DD's that sound very promising. Wherever we go next, your team will deliver.

I wish a swift recovery to your team member!

Edited September 9, 2019 by Jade_Monkey

[Sokol1]

And some maps are almost impossible to make too due to distances or just general lack of playability. 

 

I think that a example of this is Malta, if done in 1:1 scale what player who will fly for there from Italy bases?

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

Malta to Sicily is around 90km from coast to coast.  It is probably one of the most sim friendly distances in WW2. 

[Legioneod]

Honestly I just wanna see these aircraft in the sim one day, other than that I really don't care (for the most part) where we go to next. Honestly it's a tossup between the Pacific and Western Europe for me, not sure what I want more to be honest.

Just hope it's WW2 and not Korea.

 

Unfortunately I don't think I'll see any of these aircraft anytime soon.

Edited September 10, 2019 by Legioneod

[Ribbon]

Fast recovery to the dev guy!

 

From Jason post i've got a feeling that PTO isn't next ??.

I guess we'll find out in a month or two!

[Dakpilot]

Best regards for team member recovery.!

 

Having recently having to deal with 2 family members with very critical illness gives a new perspective on life and priorities 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[VBF-12_Pequod]

Best wishes for a speedy recovery to the team member.

 

18 minutes ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

From Jason post i've got a feeling that PTO isn't next ??.

 

Definitely ?

[Pharoah]

I'll be honest, I'm a massive fan of DCS for modern a/c but nothing comes close to IL2 for WW2!

 

One thing that would REALLY make things better would be to develop/release maps of the different theatres and let US make it happen online!

[sevenless]

1 hour ago, EAF_Ribbon said:

From Jason post i've got a feeling that PTO isn't next ??.

 

Agree on that. However Normandy, Italy or an Eastfront 1944/45 module are highly appreciated also. PTO will come, sooner or later.