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77.CountZero

IL-2 Compare with Great Battles airplanes data for top speeds

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Posted (edited)

Here is data from my top speed test on Il-2 Great Battle airplanes for original Il-2 1946 compare program. 

 

Original IL2 Compare was created by ROSS Youss ( as far as i know ), and you need to have that program first, you can get it from this link:
http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=329

 

Here is link for my test data files ( DataCraft, DataSpeed and DataTurn, size 43.55KB ) :

http://www.mediafire.com/file/rz3u6nwei1wf9en/Il-2BoXtestrdatv4.1.zip/file


First download original IL-2 Compare program from Mission 4 Today link (if you already dont have it with your old Il-2 1946 game ), instal it, delete or rename original DataCraft, DataSpeed and DataTurn foders containing Il-2 1946 airplane data. 
Then download my test data files for IL-2 GB "Il-2BoXtestrdatav4.1.zip". Extract it and place its DataCraft, DataSpeed and DataTurn folders inside original "Il-2 Compare" folder.
And then when you double click on that "il2c.exe" inside "IL2 Compare" folder, you should only have listed airplanes from Il-2 GB game when program starts, and their data.

If all was done correctly it should look like this:

Spoiler

exampleboxcompare.thumb.jpg.92e376c515a503da24c353c331a4b82b.jpg

 

 

Data for Il-2 GB is manualy edited (its not generated by FM extractor mod like it was for original il-2 1946 version from my understanding, i dont know if that mode for Il-2 1946 still exist, and if it would even work with Il-2 Great Battle game).


I use this for refreance for how airplanes in this game relate to each other in top speed, if you see something strange or wrong its probably because of my mistakes in tests or IAS to TAS conversion, test it your self and you can easy edit files with your test data to what you get as correct numbers. 
Chart data for MAX TAS by Altitude is taken on Kuban Autumn map (no wind, no clouds), same for all tested airplanes. Mostly at 1000m intervals ( for some airplanes also 500m or less intervls ) 
IAS is taken from game HUD when auto level is turned on, and airplane is spawned in air in QM at desired alt, flying strait on set power for 5-10min depending on alowed power setting. 
TAS neccesary for speed chart is then calculated with this: https://aerotoolbox.net/airspeed-conversions/  ,( IAS from game is placed in "Equivalent Airspeed:" field )

 

Airplanes engine power, and condition:
Bf-109s = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergency. (on 109G2 2nd line is manual rpm up to 2800 for 1-2min) , (Default loudout, with 50% fuel).
Fw-190s = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergency (A8boost = boost on, A5U17 = boost on, no bombs ). (default, 50%) 
Bf-110s = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergency. (default, 50%) 

MC.202  = first line is continuous, 2nd line is emergency+boost. (default, 50%) (abow 4,5km combat+boost) 
Me-262A = first line is continuous, 2nd line is emergency. (default, 50%) 
Ju88 = first line is combat (Climb power), 2nd line is emergancy (Take off power). (default without bombs, 50%), (no overheat conditions)
He-111s = first line is combat (Climb power), 2nd line is emergancy (Take off power). (default without bombs, 50%), (no overheat conditions)
Ju87 = first line is combat (Climb power), 2nd line is emergancy (Take off power). (default without bombs, 50%), (no overheat conditions)
Il-2s = first line is continuous, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat conditions)
Yaks = first line is continuous (no overheat), 2nd line is continuous with 0% rads and overheat (only short time posible to fly like that). (default, 50%),(On Yak7 top speed is 0% oil, 45% watter).
Lagg3 = first line is continuous (no overheat), 2nd line is continuous with 0% rads and overheat (only short time posible to fly like that). (default, 50%)
La5 = first line is continuous, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat) 
La5supmax = first line is continuous (sup1 up to 4.5km), 2nd line is boosted (sup2 from 2.5km). (default, 50%), (no overheat) 
La5FN = first line is continuous, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat)
I-16 = first line is continuous, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat)
Mig3 = first line is continuous, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat)

P-38 = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergancy . (default, 50%), (no overheat) , ( for P-38J-25CT 1st line is continuous and 2nd emergancy )
P-39 = first line is combat (no overheat), 2nd line is emergency (Max Posible on overheat low ). (default, 50%), (40%/60% O/W rads for best speed )
P-40 = first line is continuous (no overheat), 2nd line is emergancy (Take off on overheat low ). (default, 50%)
P-47 = first line is combat, 2nd line is boosted. (default, 50%), (no overheat) , (P-47D-28rpmmax = 2550RPM below 7km, 2850rpm abow 7000m), ( for P-47D-28CT version, 1st line is continuous and 2nd emergancy )

P-51s = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergancy. (default, 50%), (no overheat) , ( for P-51D-15CT version, 1st line is continuous and 2nd emergancy )
Spitfires = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergency (boost). (default, 50%), (no overheat)

Tempest Vs = first line is combat, 2nd line is emergency. (supercharger 1 at 3km), (default, 50%), (no overheat)
Pe2s  = continuous power (default without bombs, 50%), (no overheat) 
A-20 = first line is continuous (up to ~95°C oil), 2nd line is emergancy (up to ~105°C oil). (default without bombs, 50%)

B-25 = first line is continuous (numbers taken from ai folder file, loudout 8x500 bombs), 2nd line is at combat (best estimate from 3 speed values for it taken from airplane specs page).

 

-Hs-129, Ju52, U2VS top speed numbers are taken from extracted game data files in ai folder ( luascripts>ai folder , 0 is for no data for that altitude ) , as i dont have that airplanes yet.
-Max ROC chart data is taken from extracted data files in ai folder (luascripts>ai folder) for each airplane, and not from in game test ( so thats mostly climb rate for airplanes at combat power or nominal if they dont have combat ).
-Charts for turn time by speed and ROC at constant TAS have no data taken, so they are empty. 
-In general airplane info (+) is value for turn rate for each airplane taken from :

, or extracted data files from ai folder (luascripts>ai folder) at 0m altitude for airplanes not on JtD test. 
-Data in general info (+) for each airplanes is taken from ai extracted data files ( take off weight value is standard weight taken from airplane in game specs ). Dive max speed values for each airplane are taken from in game dive test from high alt. ( its max speed at point when you first start to lose control parts of airplane , its not max dive speed numbers from in game spec ). Weapons data is not icluded so its not active.
 

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Great job! Many thanks. This kind of data is so usefull for the players. 

Impatient for the new planes like tempest p51 and p38 to compare them with the rest.

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So, let me get this straight....you manually tested the max IAS of almost all of the planes yourself at multiple altitudes?  Seriously, how long did that take????

Edited by SCG_Limboski
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Not to long, 1-2h per plane probably for test, TAS calculations and imput in files and so on...

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Posted (edited)

Checked speeds on new airplanes, and updated first post with link for version 4:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/8j6difyjauei4cw/Il-2BoXtestrdatv4.zip/file 

in adition to previous tested airplanes it has also MC202, Bf-109G6 that i finaly buy, and new BoBp P-38J, P-51D (67 and 75MP), Spitfire IX M66 +25lbs, and Tempest V (+9 and +11lbs) and in game speed data for AI B-25D.

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Posted (edited)

Thank you very much for this quick update 😊 (Tempest😘).

It is still a useful tool both on 1946 and on BOS.

Have a good flight.

Edited by NN_Elanion

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Posted (edited)
On 10/1/2019 at 8:39 PM, 77.CountZero said:

Checked speeds on new airplanes, and updated first post with link for version 4:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/8j6difyjauei4cw/Il-2BoXtestrdatv4.zip/file 

in adition to previous tested airplanes it has also MC202, Bf-109G6 that i finaly buy, and new BoBp P-38J, P-51D (67 and 75MP), Spitfire IX M66 +25lbs, and Tempest V (+9 and +11lbs) and in game speed data for AI B-25D.

How accurate is the top speed in this and what's the error margin? I've been working on the data from Bf 109 K-4* and P-51D** as it shows huge discrepancies (later I will check other planes).

For instance:

At 6km the P-51D is slightly fast than the files but it would be explained by the weight of the plane, which I would like to know if there's any source in game.

At 8km alt it's shown the P-51D with max speed of 722km/h, where it should be 711~714km/h; the K-4 has a difference of -6km/h.

But the most noticeable difference is around 9-10km alt, where the K-4 would gain an upper hand over the P-51D (680km/h vs 671km/h (~417mph)).

 

* Bf 109 K-4 with gross weight of 3400kg.

** This treating the P-51D with 77% fuel or 9760lb total weight.

Edited by 9./JG54_Yellow_13

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, 9./JG54_Yellow_13 said:

How accurate is the top speed in this and what's the error margin? I've been working on the data from Bf 109 K-4* and P-51D** as it shows huge discrepancies (later I will check other planes).

For instance:

At 6km the P-51D is slightly fast than the files but it would be explained by the weight of the plane, which I would like to know if there's any source in game.

At 8km alt it's shown the P-51D with max speed of 722km/h, where it should be 711~714km/h; the K-4 has a difference of -6km/h.

But the most noticeable difference is around 9-10km alt, where the K-4 would gain an upper hand over the P-51D (680km/h vs 671km/h (~417mph)).

 

* Bf 109 K-4 with gross weight of 3400kg.

** This treating the P-51D with 77% fuel or 9760lb total weight.

all airplanes i test with 50% fuel and for weight numbers i posted i just used numbers from specs. P-51 spec number is for 68% and it shows 717kmh at 8km from game ai files for it, so 50% and 722 is ok to me from tests

Spoiler

    // Тест в МСА, режим чрезвычайный (3000/67), топливо 68%, радиаторы авто
    ////// MaxAltTAS = <float ALTITUDE>, <float TAS>
    MaxAltTAS = 0, 592
    MaxAltTAS = 1000, 610
    MaxAltTAS = 2000, 629
    MaxAltTAS = 3000, 647
    MaxAltTAS = 4000, 655
    MaxAltTAS = 5000, 651
    MaxAltTAS = 6000, 675
    MaxAltTAS = 7000, 699
    MaxAltTAS = 8000, 717
    MaxAltTAS = 9000, 708
    MaxAltTAS = 10000, 689
    MaxAltTAS = 11000, 659

 

and this is picture of how it compares my test at 50% fuel (red left combat right emergancy) to in game data at 68% and emergancy power from ai folder (blue), looks good:

p-51g.thumb.jpg.68236d842369f822631cbb4eccc3b0df.jpg

 

this one also with continuous (left red line) and emergancy (right red line) both with 50% fuel, and blue line is ai folder numbers for emergancy at 68% fuel. Planing to add continuous test data also for P-51, P-38, P-47s when i finish as thats most speeds ppl fly on them probably.

 

continup51.thumb.jpg.d3bccffdf6ec2bf13c35693da0fdc1cd.jpg

 

 

46 minutes ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

Also A5 is faster than A5 U17 below 1000m which is not possible

This is what i get, its faster on deck, and like i say in post i didnt test all airplanes at less then 1000m intervals, so maybe it peaks somwhere betwen 0-1km and drop then at 1km, bomb racks slows it also. When i have time ill check where it peaks if it peaks betwen 0-1km.

 

I run quick test for A5u17 at 500m and 1000m and i get 556kmh ias at 500m what when converted to tas is exactly as in my chart, and same 542 for 1000m, its exactly to what i have on chart.

So either im doing something wrong and if i fuiger out what ill retest it, or its just faster on deck and thats it.

 

Edited by 77.CountZero
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, StaB/Tomio_VR*** said:

Also A5 is faster than A5 U17 below 1000m which is not possible


At sea level I get 569 km/h with Fw 190 A-5 and 575 km/h with the U17 modification. That being said it looks like it isn't achieved max boost, roughly 1.60 ata instead of 1.65


This is the speeds I get with P-51D-15 at 67" and full wing tanks with empty fuselage tank vs Bf 109 K-4 full fuel at 1.8 ata

unknown.png

The K-4 is a bit too fast at low altitude, more or less ok at mid altitude and a bit too slow at high altitude compared to one of the real speed charts (though I think it's calculated performance?).

To get the TAS I use the temperature values measured in game with Bf 110 and Pe-2 external temperature gauges, compared to a real German 109G test that listed both IAS and calculated TAS I get very similar results, at most a 3 kmh error at mid-high alts but for the most time only 1-2 kmh difference

The Bf 109 K-4 is slower at high altitudes but the tendency to lose speed with altitude is minor, so eventually it would surpass the P-51D.

Edited by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard
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regarding a5u17 it gets to 1.65 at deck on winter maps, all my tests are on autumn maps

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19 hours ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


At sea level I get 569 km/h with Fw 190 A-5 and 575 km/h with the U17 modification. That being said it looks like it isn't achieved max boost, roughly 1.60 ata instead of 1.65


This is the speeds I get with P-51D-15 at 67" and full wing tanks with empty fuselage tank vs Bf 109 K-4 full fuel at 1.8 ata

unknown.png

The K-4 is a bit too fast at low altitude, more or less ok at mid altitude and a bit too slow at high altitude compared to one of the real speed charts (though I think it's calculated performance?).

To get the TAS I use the temperature values measured in game with Bf 110 and Pe-2 external temperature gauges, compared to a real German 109G test that listed both IAS and calculated TAS I get very similar results, at most a 3 kmh error at mid-high alts but for the most time only 1-2 kmh difference

The Bf 109 K-4 is slower at high altitudes but the tendency to lose speed with altitude is minor, so eventually it would surpass the P-51D.

What real chart? AFAIK there's no proper chart with 1.8 ata boost using the Serienschraube 9-12159.

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12 minutes ago, 9./JG54_Yellow_13 said:

What real chart? AFAIK there's no proper chart with 1.8 ata boost using the Serienschraube 9-12159.


From Kurfurst, he highlighted the K-4 at 1.8 ata with the standard propeller, it is a calculation though, would be interesting to see flight data but it seems rare. I personally added the purple G-10 from another chart, the other G-14 lines for comparison were added by Kurfurst too.

G-14_vs_G-14AS_vs_K-4_speed.png
If you take that one and compare it to the K-4 in game (both in 1000 meter steps):
unknown.png

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21 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


From Kurfurst, he highlighted the K-4 at 1.8 ata with the standard propeller, it is a calculation though, would be interesting to see flight data but it seems rare. I personally added the purple G-10 from another chart, the other G-14 lines for comparison were added by Kurfurst too.

G-14_vs_G-14AS_vs_K-4_speed.png
If you take that one and compare it to the K-4 in game (both in 1000 meter steps):
unknown.png

Oh, right, it's with the DB engine, I've forgotten about this one. The max speed according to the cart is a little bit more than 710, around 714km/h. Do you know how it would performance with 1.98ata? I'm not sure about the DC engine, but I guess this is the file treating about it right? 5026-18_DCSonder_MW_geschw.jpg

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7 minutes ago, 9./JG54_Yellow_13 said:

Oh, right, it's with the DB engine, I've forgotten about this one. The max speed according to the cart is a little bit more than 710, around 714km/h. Do you know how it would performance with 1.98ata? I'm not sure about the DC engine, but I guess this is the file treating about it right?


Since I measure each 1000 meters, I miss the top speed spot, so it's 710 kmh at 7000 meters.

Yup that's the one for 1.98 ata, and this is how it compares in game:

unknown.png


 

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49 minutes ago, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:


Since I measure each 1000 meters, I miss the top speed spot, so it's 710 kmh at 7000 meters.

Yup that's the one for 1.98 ata, and this is how it compares in game:

unknown.png


 

Thanks that's pretty useful, wonder if the developers can correct these values, would be pretty interesting to see the impact in-game.

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Just now, 9./JG54_Yellow_13 said:

Thanks that's pretty useful, wonder if the developers can correct these values, would be pretty interesting to see the impact in-game.


I think it isn't likely in the short term, that being said the differences aren't big, around 10 km/h. If they tweaked the drag to close the gap at high altitude, it would widen it at sea level, for example. Don't know which variables could be causing the effect.

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Welp, as a data hungry pilot I can't believe I've only just stumbled on to this. I was about to get up and do all these myself. 


Cannot thank you enough, got some good reading to do!

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rate of climb

 

i didnt test that, i just calculated it from times in game files and added them, for most airplanes they are at its combat or continuous power seetings

this is how they look in game ai files for 109K4 for example:

Spoiler

    ////// ClimbTime = <float ALTITUDE>, <float TIME> // 1.7 ATA, радиатор автомат
    ClimbTime = 0,0
    ClimbTime = 1000,47
    ClimbTime = 2000,87
    ClimbTime = 3000,131
    ClimbTime = 4000,178
    ClimbTime = 5000,229
    ClimbTime = 6000,285
    ClimbTime = 7000,349
    ClimbTime = 8000,421
    ClimbTime = 9000,509
    ClimbTime = 10000,625
    ClimbTime = 11000,797

 

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