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Developer Diary 227 - Discussion

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6 hours ago, MasterShake said:

and there is no realistic rendition of one in any current simulator at this point.

 

Sorry, I only stated this because of what MasterShake wrote. IL-2 1946 is related to IL-2 GB, it is even part of this Forum and it is still for sale. I am not interested in bombing (gameplay wise) but I just tried some 1943 and 44 B25's, they are graphical very nice and all turrets and guns work. I set it on autopilot and then jumped from gunner to gunner (strange enough that function works a lot better as in GB) and shot down some Bf109's. Must be fun to fly in a group and and shoot down attacking fighters. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

And now what? great for 1946 but uninteresting for the GB series

 

Hangover  ?

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3 hours ago, Big_Al_the_Allo said:

They didn't had the time and the budget to do it. As far as i understande every  gunner station need the same effort like a complete fighter cockpit.

That is completely  absurd. 

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1 hour ago, Jade_Monkey said:

That is completely  absurd. 

This is from a Q&A with Jason and Daniel Tuseev.

Quote

The B-25 Mitchell is coming to Bodenplatte as an AI aircraft. Are you still hoping to eventually make this a flyable type? Are there other bombers (A-20G, Mosquito, B-17, etc.) you’d like to see the series eventually tackle?

Jason: “Yep, that’s why I insisted we build it as AI first for BOBP. Couldn’t fit the cockpit into this budget. The interior is a huge project, but doable because I can get access to one or two real-life examples of the B-25. Quite a few of those still exist. A Mossie would be sweet and totally doable too. My biggest issue with American bombers is modelling the turret. Such a hard space to research and model. I believe the A-20G and B-25 has the same turret, but don’t remember for sure. If anyone has detailed info about American turrets like drawings, manuals, pictures etc. please send them to me. Proper references material 90% of the battle.

Daniel: “Yes, we hope one day to have it player-controlled. Due to this strategic objective we’re developing its external 3D model and physics model same as we do for all our player-controlled planes. So, after we will have release AI B-25 we only got to find occasion to develop interior for it. Of cause, its interior is a real complex thing, but we hope that one day we will find opportunity to create it.”

Source:https://stormbirds.blog/2019/02/12/part-2-an-interview-with-jason-williams-and-daniel-tuseev/

And as far as the gunners are concerned, I believe I've read that at some time in the forum. I've just searched for it, but I can't find it right now.
So I don't think it's absurd. Also from the logic it is clear that a bomber with gun stations is more working than a single cockpit for a fighter or not?

 

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4 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

That is completely  absurd. 

 

Not absurd at all - go look at the gun stations in the game, and you'll see that most have just as many details as a fighter cockpit.

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Yeah no. The amount of dials and indicators is not even remotely close to a fighter cockpit. 

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I doubt that dials are the most time consuming part of a station to model. Go into the under-side gunner view of the A-20B and look at all the space and detail, that stuff takes time

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14 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

Yeah no. The amount of dials and indicators is not even remotely close to a fighter cockpit. 

 

Go have a look at the surrounding interior of the He 111 top turret or ventral turret area, or the fuselage area of the Pe-2. There's plenty of things that have to be modeled correctly there. 

 

7 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

🤣 sure.

 

Well, he's right. Not quite sure what / why you are going on about this.

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If a bomber was made flyable but just had the cockpit modelled and the turrets were AI-only - would everybody here get upset and refuse to use it?  I've always wondered that.  For me it would be fine.

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4 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

If a bomber was made flyable but just had the cockpit modelled and the turrets were AI-only - would everybody here get upset and refuse to use it?  I've always wondered that.  For me it would be fine.

I have to agree here. I get that multiplayer online stuff can be fun to have a human crew manning all stations but for me the only stations that need to be modeled in a bomber are the cockpit and bombardier stations. All the gunners and turrets could be AI. 

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8 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

🤣 sure.

Oh well in that case they must just be holding out on us for purely sadistic reasons, otherwise they would have released it already. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Feathered_IV said:

If a bomber was made flyable but just had the cockpit modelled and the turrets were AI-only - would everybody here get upset and refuse to use it?  I've always wondered that.  For me it would be fine.

 

I'm not a programmer or anything but I'm going to assume it's more work to finish a plane as a faux-single seater and then re-work it later into multi-crew than it is to just build the plane as it will be finished

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I didn’t mean rework it later. I meant make the cockpit only. Whether it be B-25 or an Me-410.  Would it make it wholly unacceptable to you if just flew it?

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Manning defensive gun positions is one of the major things that makes a difference between fighter and bomber experience for me. Nothing brings more joy to bomber pilot than shooting down enemy fighter with your own hands 😉

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4 hours ago, Soilworker said:

Oh well in that case they must just be holding out on us for purely sadistic reasons, otherwise they would have released it already. 

 

No, there is plenty of work. My point is the the gunner stations do not require the same amount of work as a fighter cockpit.

4 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

Go have a look at the surrounding interior of the He 111 top turret or ventral turret area, or the fuselage area of the Pe-2. There's plenty of things that have to be modeled correctly there.

 

I didn't say there is nothing to model, i said that claiming a gunner station is as much work as a fighter cockpit sounds absurd to me.

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5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

If a bomber was made flyable but just had the cockpit modelled and the turrets were AI-only - would everybody here get upset and refuse to use it?  I've always wondered that.  For me it would be fine.

I have honestly never used a gunner's position in combat in this sim. I'd rather fly the plane and let the AI shoot than the reverse. So I probably wouldn't notice as long as the flight modeling was good and the bombs dropped OK.

That being said, I think a lot of the more dedicated bomber pilots do it much more often than me. And I've had guys jump into gunner positions when I'm flying a bomber online and they seemed to have a good time. I think those players would be upset about what they consider to be a half-built aircraft. So if they're going to make it flyable at all, they might as well go all-in, if only for the community goodwill..

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1 hour ago, RedKestrel said:

I have honestly never used a gunner's position in combat in this sim. I'd rather fly the plane and let the AI shoot than the reverse. So I probably wouldn't notice as long as the flight modeling was good and the bombs dropped OK.

That being said, I think a lot of the more dedicated bomber pilots do it much more often than me. And I've had guys jump into gunner positions when I'm flying a bomber online and they seemed to have a good time. I think those players would be upset about what they consider to be a half-built aircraft. So if they're going to make it flyable at all, they might as well go all-in, if only for the community goodwill..

 

Yes, we have a couple of folk in our gaming group who will always jump at the chance to sit in a gunner position when we fly bombers. Not everyone likes to fly single-seat aircraft, or even twin-engined medium bombers. I'd rather they also go all-in on the B-25 (and any future bombers), than half arse it.

 

That said, pleeeeeeease we would kill for proper bombsights and the ability to hand-over control to the bombardier position for the bomb-run!

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4 hours ago, Brano said:

Nothing brings more joy to bomber pilot than shooting down enemy fighter with your own hands 😉

But that's kinda the whole point. The bomber pilot just flies the plane. The gunners are the ones shooting down enemy fighters. Sometimes the bombardier if his station has a weapon.

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When I fly a bomber, I want to experience all crew members posts.

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I would pay 40-50€ for fully developed Mitchel. The only problem is that such fools like me are few in numbers to cover the development cost and some profit on top of it.

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1 minute ago, Brano said:

I would pay 40-50€ for fully developed Mitchel. The only problem is that such fools like me are few in numbers to cover the development cost and some profit on top of it.

Honestly, a fully developed Mitchel is probably in the cards. They will already have it AI only, which means all the flight modeling and exterior modeling will be done. This was the compromise solution to get it into BoBP with all the other fully developed aircraft. With the Mitchel so far along in development, it will probably be first in line for a collector plane treatment as it will be 'low hanging fruit' in terms of development time. Cockpit modeling can proceed on it while other possible collector planes are having flight and 3D models produced by other team members. This and the Spit XIV seem like the most likely candidates for the first collector planes we'll see (this is all speculation, however, just my opinion).

And then you won't have to pay 50 euros for it, more like 20. But I wouldn't expect it until BoBP is fully rolled out (I think the timeline for that is late 2019?). So maybe 2020 you will get your wish!

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8 hours ago, Danziger said:

I have to agree here. I get that multiplayer online stuff can be fun to have a human crew manning all stations but for me the only stations that need to be modeled in a bomber are the cockpit and bombardier stations. All the gunners and turrets could be AI. 

I guess everyone has their own preferences. I. for one, want the gunner turrets modeled and functional. That's why I fly bombers, so I can throw the plane on autopilot, and use the gunner positions, a nice change of pace.

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1 minute ago, onlyforbrian said:

I guess everyone has their own preferences. I. for one, want the gunner turrets modeled and functional. That's why I fly bombers, so I can throw the plane on autopilot, and use the gunner positions, a nice change of pace.

 

Indeed, I spent more time in the gunner positions than the cockpit in B17 The Mighty Eighth, now that was a bomber sim !

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11 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

If a bomber was made flyable but just had the cockpit modelled and the turrets were AI-only - would everybody here get upset and refuse to use it?  I've always wondered that.  For me it would be fine.

 

I would suspect that the bombardier position would also be necessary.  I am with you on the gunner positions but others have expressed opposing points of view.  

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I for one would love to see heavy bombers, regardless if they were AI only, cockpit only, or fully modelled... however, when the developers repeatedly tell us it's a no go, then I respect their judgement... I'm sure they know better than us lot what they can and cannot do.

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19 hours ago, Leifr said:

 

Yes, we have a couple of folk in our gaming group who will always jump at the chance to sit in a gunner position when we fly bombers. Not everyone likes to fly single-seat aircraft, or even twin-engined medium bombers. I'd rather they also go all-in on the B-25 (and any future bombers), than half arse it.

 

That said, pleeeeeeease we would kill for proper bombsights and the ability to hand-over control to the bombardier position for the bomb-run!

You'd trust me with a bomb run? 😄

I'll second you on this though, dedicated control switch to bombardier rather than just hte pilot, the bombadier can switch out between their gun and the sight as and when needed using the same controls as the gun switch perhaps. that would be amazing.

 

 

There are a lot of single flyers in this game and clearly it does have a large following but don't understimate us mud movers, we love our heavies and ground attackers as much as anything and are a vital part of the game, you can't take out the enemies infrastucture by zooming about shooting up his planes, you need to take it to his factories, railyards, docklands, and merchant fleet.

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Posted (edited)

man control gunner is much less efficient than ai, only few people will play it in few times, and some server banned man control gunner, like taw. I would like to have a complete plane, but if I must choose between a single seat b-17 and a full making plane that they will never make, the answer is apparent.

Edited by 8./JG5_seaflanker819
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