VR - Flat planes

[Wolferl_1791]

I've noticed this from the first Flying Circus plane release. At first I thought it was a temporary problem or limited to the Spad and the DR1. But every plane since has more or less had this issue. The planes simply look flat in VR (i.e. in 3D).

Looking recently at a close-up video of the Albatross D5 (Military Aviation History's Youtube Channel), I couldn't help but notice all the small details which are completely flat in the game. Due to how bump mapping works and the fact that your camera is restricted, non VR users can't realize just how weird this looks up close and personal. 

 

This has never bothered me in WW2 content, mainly because there are so many "things" in the cockpits of those planes, so they look solid enough. But WW1 planes are more basic, so I believe that every nail counts. My suggestion is for the team to up their quality, or at the very least, make the 3D models and textures moddable. I'd do it just for fun, for free, it's not really hard to extrude a polygon here and there.

 

I've made a few screenshots detailing the issue. I've intentionally chosen the Albastross, which I guess requires the least amount of work. But any VR user can attest that the engine section of the Spad is just.... beyond words. Don't focus on texture quality, I guess that's fine enough, but on the lack of extruded details. The gun mantlets in particular use a transparency texture instead of real 3D polygons, so they look like they're made out of paper. Of course, I didn't circle everything. For example, the small nails you see everywhere would be insanely expensive (performance wise) to bump in 3D. But the gaps between the panels (I only circled the one under the rudder) would be a simple job and they'd add a whole deal of realism as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Wolferl_1791

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

It is a common problem in VR development that normal mapping loses much of its effectiveness for faking geometric details. The easy solution is to increase polycounts, but that's not always possible (either because redoing existing assets is a pain or strict polygon limits must be respected).

 

By the way, texture and model mods are possible, although no easy way to edit models is currently available.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Models from 10 years ago...

[PatCartier]

I'm not using VR but I noticed the lack of 3d in FC.

[Panzerlang]

Not even remotely an issue for me, it's almost literally rivet-counting. Who notices it in a combat mission anyway and why would you want to or care?

[PatCartier]

The contemplation of these beauties.

[Dutch2]

On 7/11/2019 at 11:18 PM, Wolferl_1791 said:

I've noticed this from the first Flying Circus plane release. At first I thought it was a temporary problem or limited to the Spad and the DR1. But every plane since has more or less had this issue. The planes simply look flat in VR (i.e. in 3D).

Looking recently at a close-up video of the Albatross D5 (Military Aviation History's Youtube Channel), I couldn't help but notice all the small details which are completely flat in the game. Due to how bump mapping works and the fact that your camera is restricted, non VR users can't realize just how weird this looks up close and personal. 

 

This has never bothered me in WW2 content, mainly because there are so many "things" in the cockpits of those planes, so they look solid enough. But WW1 planes are more basic, so I believe that every nail counts. My suggestion is for the team to up their quality, or at the very least, make the 3D models and textures moddable. I'd do it just for fun, for free, it's not really hard to extrude a polygon here and there.

 

I've made a few screenshots detailing the issue. I've intentionally chosen the Albastross, which I guess requires the least amount of work. But any VR user can attest that the engine section of the Spad is just.... beyond words. Don't focus on texture quality, I guess that's fine enough, but on the lack of extruded details. The gun mantlets in particular use a transparency texture instead of real 3D polygons, so they look like they're made out of paper. Of course, I didn't circle everything. For example, the small nails you see everywhere would be insanely expensive (performance wise) to bump in 3D. But the gaps between the panels (I only circled the one under the rudder) would be a simple job and they'd add a whole deal of realism as well.

 

Thanks for pointing this out, as I as an non English speaker do not have the gift in writing this down on the right explaining way. 

 

But that's what I'm saying all the time about the whole FC project and flying in VR these imperfections will show up much more. That Russian design buro is only doing a lazy job by swapping the 10y old models from RoF to FC. just like an secondhand  carseller, showing cars that are only polished in teflon wax and painting the tires more black. Take a look at the tanks, as I do not own TC I can only judge from the videos/pictures, but to me the tank-models appears to be much better made, so why does one design buro has the easy job and failed, while the other can do its task much better from scratch?  . 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but making a map is a task that needs even more skills, so I'm afraid the to be released WW1 map, will be very disappointing flying in VR, so that will count to the whole FC game. 

I do hope @Jason_Williams  before closing this topic, he can talk to this RoF swapping buro and an descent FC correction update will be released. Come on 1c, take your responsibility! 

 

Right now as an disappointing WW1 flysim fan, absolute no pre order will be made for an future FC2 or additional planes!  

  

Edited July 13, 2019 by Dutch2

[Wolferl_1791]

8 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

Thanks for pointing this out, as I as an non English speaker do not have the gift in writing this down on the right explaining way. 

 

But that's what I'm saying all the time about the whole FC project and flying in VR these imperfections will show up much more. That Russian design buro is only doing a lazy job by swapping the 10y old models from RoF to FC. just like an secondhand  carseller, showing cars that are only polished in teflon wax and painting the tires more black. Take a look at the tanks, as I do not own TC I can only judge from the videos/pictures, but to me the tank-models appears to be much better made, so why does one design buro has the easy job and failed, while the other can do its task much better from scratch?  . 

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but making a map is a task that needs even more skills, so I'm afraid the to be released WW1 map, will be very disappointing flying in VR, so that will count to the whole FC game. 

I do hope @Jason_Williams  before closing this topic, he can talk to this RoF swapping buro and an descent FC correction update will be released. Come on 1c, take your responsibility! 

 

Right now as an disappointing WW1 flysim fan, absolute no pre order will be made for an future FC2 or additional planes!  

  

 

Your English is excellent, apart from saying "buro" instead of "studio". You sound like a comrade

But you're taking criticism a bit further than I did. We don't really know what 3D skills responsibilities the team porting the planes from RoF have. And if none of them have a VR set lying around, they might not notice anything wrong. 

 

Anyway, to add to the discussion, I could be wrong, but I think the game uses different models for exterior/interior views. If so, I don't mind the current detail for exterior views, where, as Prien said, it's just rivet-counting from 100m away. But from the seat, we need better detail, not just in the cockpit area. As for "polycount", indenting an edge adds 2 edges and 2 polygons (you're taking a "." section and turn it into a "V" section). Extruding a polygon turns every edge into a polygon (so it's 1 extra polygon and 3 extra edges). Since these extrusions are tiny, redoing the UV maps is not required, although it could be done. If anyone can export a plane 3d model with texture I'd be happy to try detailing it. 

 

 

[Stumble]

13 hours ago, Dutch2 said:

I do hope @Jason_Williams  before closing this topic, he can talk to this RoF swapping buro and an descent FC correction update will be released. Come on 1c, take your responsibility! 

 

Right now as an disappointing WW1 flysim fan, absolute no pre order will be made for an future FC2 or additional planes!  

 

 

And better yet, they're charging us $100 for it. Its more like we're bringing our own already used car to a dalership to swap it out... but instead they give it right back to us with a tire shine, a big bill and they pretend its a complete different car.

 

For the record, I do really hope that I'm proven wrong here. I'm not trying hate on 1C studios... its just for the time being I'm gonna wait on purchasing this sim.

 

S!

 

P.S. No offense intended. Just a concerned buyer. 

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, Stumble said:

 Just a concerned buyer. 

 

Er....no your not.

[Feathered_IV]

It seems like an extremely unrealistic expectation for a video game.

[Stumble]

6 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Er....no your not.

 

Just a concerned "potential" buyer depending on how things go forward...

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

....and then there's the rest of us who, while respecting the fact that there are drawbacks to simply porting over ten year old models, accept the fact that this is the fact, and appreciate the more important fact that this is better than not having the WWI flight sim community moving forward technologically with the potential for future improvements. 

 

Thanks you to Jason and his crew for their commitment to the community that gave them their start!

[Stumble]

@J5_Baeumer Fair enough you raise a valid point. I'm sorry game dev's. I hope you guys realize I do appreciate the work you do for us even though it doesn't seem like I do. Thanks for everything you guys do!

 

S!

[HagarTheHorrible]

The shiny exhausts, with fake holes, on the SE5a keep catching my eye.

[RhumbaAzul]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:32 PM, Uffz-Prien said:

Not even remotely an issue for me, it's almost literally rivet-counting. Who notices it in a combat mission anyway and why would you want to or care?

Because it's not 2008 anymore?